I notice today a 13 year old American is quoted in the news thusly:
Thank you all for your support. xoxo <3 :).
I went into a mental tizzy about the degradation of the English language, and how a cross oxo can't be less than three.
So I dived into the archives to console myself, and found the equally incomprehensible paragraph below, from 1928. Perhaps we only really understand the language for about twenty years?
Wanda Gag thrills so now to the joy of long days free to draw as she will that she has forgotten the weariness of those days, when she made all the little Gags "eat fair' and bought them food at the sacrifice price of designing costumes for stylish stouts.
What's that all about then?
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>I notice today a 13 year old American is quoted in the news thusly:
>Thank you all for your support. xoxo <3 :).
>I went into a mental tizzy about the degradation of the English language
As he was an American child, he wasn't speaking English. The Queen has no control over what variant of International English they speak in ex colonies.
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Thusly ? You're right though. "Incentivised" "Nucular" at least three mentions of this mis pronounced words on the media recently......I could go on.
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"Fed up OF" rather than "fed up WITH"always makes me shudder
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And a variation of that is the northern trait of changing the word "have" for "of" as in "I could of" I want a Taser.
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I struggle to understand some of the language my mates speak trying to sound cool. I just think why you trying to sound like some guy out of 1976?
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I struggle to understand some of the language my children speak, let alone what they write online.
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I get all manner of what I consider to be idiots sending texts to me asking for work. The wording says it all so I just delete them. Pathetic the lot of them. My colleagues and I all agree that it is nigh on impossible now to employ a youngster.
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This rapidly turns into "the younger generation", and that's a bit easy. I wonder if there are further subdivisions that I'm not aware of - does a seventeen year old understand an eight year old's language? I know that when I was eight all I cared about was getting Battling Tops for Christmas - these days they appear to be making pension plans and lining up their exams.
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I think you're right language has always changed, the english one anyway. It always makes me laugh when I see someone on the news complaining about people's language not being 'right' as though it had never changed from the 50's.
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My children are bilingual. They speak an incomprehensible dialect in a strange accent amongst their fellows, but talk perfectly normally to us. When I phone home and one of them answers, I am always struck how nicely spoken they sound.
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Americans tend to speak an often purer (because it's much older) form of English than we (Brits).
French schoolkids use a form of language among themselves called 'verlan' in which ordinary words are said and written back to front. Figure that one out.
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Crikey. We used to do that at school - called each other by our names backwards for a while.
I remember one lad whose name under that scheme was the mellifluous Nitsuj Notelpats.
And of course in Jennings' Diary, the boys of Linbury Court have a similar scheme. Mr Wilkins, the maths teacher, loses his cufflink. Jennings writes "Rm Snikliw - gnissim knil" in his diary and much is the hilarity when Mr Wilkins reads it later. Corwumph.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 22 Mar 11 at 09:41
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>> Nitsuj Notelpats
In my class was a Lien Nobbigztif.
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Ah, Linbury Court. Do you remember the episode of the baked beans tea?
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>> Ah, Linbury Court. Do you remember the episode of the baked beans tea?
Ouch..vague..remind me?
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As an old bod I am miffed at the language used by the BBC. I do not like "Upcoming" or "Top of the Hour" nor "James, give us a sense of - - - -" and I have weather forecasters telling me " It will be a grotty old night in Newcastle". This is not news anyway, I thought all nights in Newcastle are grotty in one way or another!
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Oh yes PP , what gets me are the lazy BBC sports reporters who ask ..... in addition to .....'give us a sense of'.....? .....
' How did you feel ?' or 'what went through your mind? '
when you
(scored goal )
(won race)
( came last )
( fell off at the last fence)
Only surpassed by the replies of
( over the moon )
( gobsmacked)
( sick as a parrot)
which prove most of them haven't got two brain cells to rub together.
And what the hell do they mean by 'early doors' ?
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Only surpassed by the replies of
( over the moon )
( gobsmacked)
( sick as a parrot)
You missed "Well gutted" LOL!
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Sorry PP.....missed that one. Glad to see that you are making it a team effort.
I usually give it 110 percent but I'm a bit off my game today......
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>>You missed "Well gutted" LOL!>>
Also "You know..." or "Ya know.." endlessly included in each or after every sentence....
Re "Early Doors" - in my area of the country it means going to the pub as soon as the doors are open for the evening session, although the longer opening hours have rendered it less applicable these days.
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>> Re "Early Doors" - in my area of the country it means going to the
>> pub as soon as the doors are open for the evening session, although the longer
>> opening hours have rendered it less applicable these days.
I don't recall encountering this one in my northern (West Riding) youth but it's used amongst freinds down here as Stu suggests above.
Might originally have referred to early admission to flics or footy, either for best seats or to tank up in bar before the main feature.
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>> Americans tend to speak an often purer (because it's much older) form of English than
>> we (Brits).
>>
>>
I think the most engaging speech to listen to is that spoken by older Indians and Pakistanis of the officer/maharaja class. Meticulously correct, with a lovely sing-song lilt, larded with obsolete slang and jolly fellow old-boyishness.
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As far as India goes, you can do much worse than the Times of India for a well written English language newspaper (online) that feels like our broadsheets of thirty years ago. Of course, it also has a different world perspective. (Similarly, the Shanghai Daily is worth a look, and the DailyNK is always intriguing.)
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>> My children are bilingual. >>
Mine too, we both have an English accent, (although our London based relatives would dispute that). When our kids were at school they would use a local accent with their pals and an English one with us. Although not so much these days they still do to a certain extent. One of my son in laws has a broad West Scottish accent, tri lingual (confused) grandkids anyone? That is without text speak and their generations unique use of words!
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Every language changes over period of time. English is not an exception.
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>> Every language changes over period of time.
But who initiates the changes? If I use new word in place of a current one, how many people have to copy me before it becomes the norm?
Last edited by: L'escargot on Tue 22 Mar 11 at 16:10
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>> Every language changes over period of time. English is not an exception.
>>
Agreed, but it's got very lazy.
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>> And a variation of that is the northern trait of changing the word "have" for "of" as in "I could of" I want a Taser.
You'll be surprised how many people, including me, up here in the North West are intensely annoyed by those who say or write "..would of..", "..should of.." and similar - it's a common source for a rant in several local website forums.
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>> As he was an American child, he wasn't speaking English. The Queen has no control
>> over what variant of International English they speak in ex colonies.
>>
I miss the good old days. Send a gunboat.
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Black used to mean white (think how many of our sister Indo European languages use the a word similar to black to mean white - blanc, blanco, bianco.......). The English word "blank" has the same root. In proto Indo European, the prefix "bla-" indicated something lacking in colour, so was used to describe black and white things. It evolved from there.
Pink used to mean yellow.
Indo European languages are only a couple of thousand years old at most. They're babies.
Things change, it's no big deal. Essentially, across most of Europe, we're speaking the same language which has been divided by very fast paced accent changes and dialectisation, into a wide variety of languages which continue to devlop and divide. An awful lot of this change is driven by things being misheard, misrepeated, misread. Mistakes, really. All our languages as they exist today are born of mistakes. And continue to develop in the same manner.
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Conversely, now that we have highly exported American culture (via TV and films) and most especially the internet, language and possibly culture is converging into a muddy coalescence that's centred somewhere around English, be it American or International. Fascinating stuff to watch in action.
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On the front of the census envelope it says "Your census response is required by law". It's not long ago that the word "response" wouldn't have been used in that context. It probably would have said something like "You are required by law to fill in and return the census form".
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Language changes to fill a need or just for fashion. I don't mind this at all usually, but there are two modern trends that really irritate me.
a) The use of the term "Guys", as in when Mrs L and myself sit down to eat in a Restaurant and the waiter/waitress says "What do you Guys want to eat?"
b) The use of the term"Going Forward" instead of "In the future". This has got sales department "positive-thinking" BS written all over it.
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>> a) The use of the term "Guys", as in when Mrs L and myself sit
>> down to eat in a Restaurant and the waiter/waitress says "What do you Guys want
>> to eat?"
In the right circumstances (ie any other than strictly formal) I find the use of the term "Guys" to be just right. You wish to be called "Sir or Madam"? That's very stuffy.
>> b) The use of the term"Going Forward" instead of "In the future". This has got
>> sales department "positive-thinking" BS written all over it.
"Going forward" has far more resonance, fluidity, urgency and a feeling of progress about it than
a wishy washy "In the future"
Mind I was trained in "positive thinking BS" speak. I can be fluent in it.
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>> Mind I was trained in "positive thinking BS" speak. I can be fluent in it.
>>
Yes, I've noticed! ;-) (You left yourself wide open for that one)
>> You wish to be called "Sir or Madam"?
absolutely not!
>>That's very stuffy.
I agree with you - very stuffy.
I prefer something like:
"What would you like to eat?"
"What can I get you?"
"What would you folks like?"
I actually like a lot of Americanisms, but "Guys" sounds too "yadda yadda". (IYKWIM)
You are also right, that "Going Forward" can be OK to say, in the right circumstances. However, it seems to be mindlessly repeated as a fashionable phrase, and often inappropriate. My favourite example is this: Imagine a manufacturer of gearboxes, who has called a meeting because there have been persistent faults with the reverse gear on their gearboxes. The right thing to say at this meeting is "In the future we will fix the reverse gear" , not "Going forward we will fix the reverse gear"!
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>
>> My favourite example is this: Imagine a manufacturer of gearboxes, who has called a meeting
>> because there have been persistent faults with the reverse gear on their gearboxes. The right
>> thing to say at this meeting is "In the future we will fix the reverse gear"
Now that sounds like the reverse gear wont get fixed unless Marty fixes the flux capacitor and / or
Dr. Emmett "Doc" Brown, generates 1.21 gigawatts of power and achieves 88 miles an hour.
In other words, it wouldn't wash with me as a customer, and deserves the response "get the ***** thing fixed NOW"
>>"Going forward we will fix the reverse gear"!
clearly not appropriate for a "going forward" response. The correct response would of course be
"we will plan to have the problem resolved in release number 2 of the gearbox sub assembly, and attempt to have it available for production sampling in Quarter 3."
As for dinner, I rate "guys" and "folks" as exactly the same kind of friendly familiar terminology. Happy with either.
(do not specify what year)
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>> "we will plan to have the problem resolved in release number 2 of the gearbox
>> sub assembly, and attempt to have it available for production sampling in Quarter 3."
>>
:-) :-) :-) well done - Touche!
A well constructed example of modern business-speak.
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>> As for dinner, I rate "guys" and "folks" as exactly the same kind of friendly
>> familiar terminology. Happy with either.
Of course, if you were sensible and you did object to the mode of address, you would wait until after you had eaten.
Unless you enjoy eating the secretions of various recesses of the human body!
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>> Dr. Emmett "Doc" Brown, generates 1.21 gigawatts of power and achieves 88 miles an hour.
>>
It's JIGGAWATTS, dammit! Pot kettle black etc.
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"Different to" or "different than" rather than "different from".
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"At this moment in time" = "Now"
Some of you may find this (thread drift alert!) entertaining
www.novasio.com/bs_generator.htm
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One that irritates me is "enjoy" as a sentence, as when a plate of food is plonked in front of you and the waiter says: "Enjoy", and then walks away.
As regards "different from" and "different to", both is regarded as acceptable.
Fowler's English Usage - as quoted in the link - is a conservative and well-respected text on English, so if Fowler says it's OK, it must be OK in learned circles as well as colloquially.
Opinions differ on 'different than', which I think sounds awkward.
www.dailywritingtips.com/different-from-different-to-different-than/
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"for free" another recent abomination.
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I'd have said both "are" regarded as acceptable rather than both "is", but then either is or indeed are perfectly understandable, so does it matter?
:-)
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>> As regards "different from" and "different to", both is regarded as acceptable.
Should that be "both are acceptable"?
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Would say "great minds etc" but I try to avoid flattery...
:-)
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Read some corporate trash pushed through my letterbox. "re-engineered the HR department" wonder what that entails...
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Hopefully sacking them.
I know I was pfd in the work place when "Personnel Department" became "Human Resources"
As soon as you are classed the same as oil, coal or iron ore, you know you are in trouble.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 24 Mar 11 at 09:25
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>> Hopefully sacking them.
>>
>> I know I was pfd in the work place when "Personnel Department" became "Human Resources"
>>
>> As soon as you are classed the same as oil, coal or iron ore, you
>> know you are in trouble.
>>
IME It's really hit the fan when you hear the phrase "our staff are our biggest asset"
The redundancies start quite soon afterwards.
There aught to be a translation book for HR/Management speak, unless just meaning the opposite of what they say is sufficient.
----------
Edit - I see humph has beaten me to it...
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 24 Mar 11 at 09:24
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To return to the thread...
:-)
I sometimes catch myself saying "cool" when I mean "I understand" or "I'm happy with that" or somesuch. I immediately hate myself for doing it. My only mitigation is that I spend my working life surrounded by very trendy people half my age who can actually get away with such nonsense. They almost certainly think I'm not at all cool.
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Well I remember cool the second time around and never stopped using. "Whatever" and "absolutely" hard to avoid.
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I like to put the "F" word in the middle of abso.......inglutely when I need to stress a point !
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Tue 22 Mar 11 at 20:31
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I like the response when you exclaim "NO WAY"
"Yes WAY!"
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Don't start me off on the b******t bingo thing !
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I am guilty of...
"To be fair" ( because you are definitely not being fair matey )
"In all fairness" ( you are an idiot )
"With respect" ( with utter contempt )
"At the end of the day" ( I'd quite like to end this conversation now )
"At the end of the piece" ( as above )
"While not totally disagreeing..." ( when I actually am )
"Did I mention?" ( when I know very well I did just a few sentences ago )
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"I fully accept"
= I know you have a valid complaint, and I know what we plan to do is stupid but STFU because we are going to do it anyway and any more noise out of you will see your payrise down the toilet"
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This thread will trigger the pedant alarm soon!. :-)
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Ah! The mention of Human Resource up-thread, always makes me think of this odlie....
Due to the current financial situation caused by the slowdown in the economy, management has decided to implement a scheme to put workers of 40 years of age and above on early retirement. This scheme will be known as R-A-P-E (Retire Aged People Early).
Persons selected to be R-A-P-ED can apply to management to be eligible for the S-H-A-F-T scheme (Special Help After Forced Termination). Persons who have been R-A-P-ED and S-H-A-F-T-ED will be reviewed under the S-C-R-E-W program (Scheme Covering Retired Early Workers). A person may be R-A-P-ED once, S-H-A-F-T-ED twice and S-C-R-E-W-ED as many times as management deems appropriate.
Persons who have been R-A-P-ED can only get A-I-D-S (Additional Income for Dependants & Spouse) or H-E-R-P-E-S (Half Earnings for Retired Personnel Early Severance). Obviously persons who have A-I-D-S or H-E-R-P-E-S will not be S-H-A-F-T-ED or S-C-R-E-W-ED any further by management.
Persons who are not R-A-P-ED and are staying on will receive as much S-H-I-T (Special High Intensity Training) as possible. Management has always prided itself on the amount of S-H-I-T it gives employees. Should you feel that you do not receive enough S-H-I-T, please bring to the attention of your supervisor. They have been trained to give you all the S-H-I-T you can handle.
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"I like to put the "F" word in the middle of abso.......inglutely when I need to stress a point"
Me too. Fannytastic is another favourite of mine.
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It would be really wouldn't it !
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'And a variation of that is the northern trait of changing the word "have" for "of" as in "I could of" I want a Taser.'
You might be mishearing it, the 'of' is likely 'have' shorten to 've'. I say it like that but some might not get the accent. But I also use 'while' in telling the time, so a shop that said, OPEN 7-10, I would say 'open seven while ten' which to me is normal but it really confuses some why I would use the word 'while'
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It is said that the warning sign at level crossings used to say "Wait while red light shows", which northerners took to mean it was safe to go.
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The thing I notice is the use of the word reiterate. When on earth did people start saying reiterate instead of repeat? In any case, my dictionary defines iterate as meaning repeat, and defines reiterate as meaning repeat over and over again.
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There's a fashion for re- words at the moment. Reprise, revisit come to mind.
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You're right....now you come to mention it. Another annoyance is mis-remembered.....
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A couple of language quirks people use that get me annoyed....
' I repeat again' .....No again is required .
'Almost unique '..... Something is either unique or it is not.
At the moment however my greatest irritant is.......
...... to like have 'like' like inserted like everywhere in like every sentence....like.....
AAAAARGH!
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This crossed my desk today in a Memorandum of Understanding about digital publishing.
The Supplier and Client, whilst recognising the integrity and policies of each other, agree to work together in a spirit of partnership towards achieving their vision of effectively engaging with their customers online
And I think digital publishing can be shortened to 'websites'.
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A yes "partnerships" another one
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"Stakeholders" used to baffle me until I realised that, simply by reading the document containing the word, I was one. :)
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>>
>>
>> 'Almost unique '..... Something is either unique or it is not.
>>
>>
>>
I've never quite gone along with this one. If something is very rare, so rare that it is almost but not quite the only one left, then isn't it "almost unique"?
Why is "almost the only one" correct but "almost unique" wrong?
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I agree Cliff - I was taught that unique was just that, far tidier than almost the only one.
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....... For many grammarians, unique is the paradigmatic absolute term, a shibboleth that distinguishes between those who understand that such a term cannot be modified by an adverb of degree or a comparative adverb and those who do not. These grammarians would say that a thing is either unique or not unique and that it is therefore incorrect to say that something is very unique or more unique than something else.
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>> ....... For many grammarians, unique is the paradigmatic absolute term, a shibboleth that
Fortunately all such fogies are disappearing with the onset of age related death syndrome, allowing the rest of us to shape our environment to suit changing times and circumstances.
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allowing the rest of us to shape our environment to suit changing times and circumstances. ......
You do what you like with your standards Zeddo....
I will keep mine thank you..
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Why are you not speaking the same way that Shakespeare did then?
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>> Why are you not speaking the same way that Shakespeare did then?
>>
It is widely thought that Shakespeare spoke in a Brummie-ish accent. It is also thought that the Brummie accent may well be the oldest form of the mongrel Indo European dialect we call English.
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You have changed the argument.
You started off by castigating "almost unique", to which my argument applies.
But now you have switched to "very unique" and "more unique", and I agree with you.
>> cannot be modified by an adverb of degree
>> or a comparative adverb
>>
Adding "almost" is not modifying the word unique, rather the opposite, in emphasising its special position.
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Sorry Cliff - you are missing the point I feel .
Unique means that something is what it is. It is the only one
By adding ' almost' you are modifying the sense to mean that it is not the 'only one'
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The meaning of the word has changed.
Its no longer
"being the only existing one of its type"
but now more generally "unusual or special in some way"
Sorry, nothing you can do about it, that's just the way language changes. Nothing to do with standards.
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The qualification 'almost' unique can I think be justified, though only rarely. In repto's field for example a preserved Westland chopper might be unique - the only one of it's type. OTOH the existence of a similar (but differently powered and equipped) Sikorsky preserved in the States makes it almost unique.
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>>
>>
>> By adding ' almost' you are modifying the sense to mean that it is not
>> the 'only one'
>>
No, it is still the only one. But there may be others that come close to sharing its uniqueness, but they differ in some way (slightly different model, heavily modified, not in running order, not realistically in existence, eg at the bottom of a lake, the only one outside China, due for execution tomorrow, etc).
What is wrong with the concept of something being almost the only one? If numbers have been dwindling, and now there are only 2 left, but one is gravely ill with only days to live, the other is "almost unique".
And supposing, later, the possibility of discovering some hitherto unknown examples arises.
Are you going to disallow "possibly unique", "thought to be unique", "probably not unique", "formerly unique", "once believed to be unique", "not unique" ?
Or "hardly unique", said of something that is as common as muck?
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What is wrong with the concept of something being almost the only one?
Nothing at all Cliff, nothing at all, but not in the strict grammatical definition of the word
Zeddo has the definition of unique wrong .
The strict definition of something as unique means that it 'is' the 'only' one....therefore any qualifications of the word will and do change that strict meaning.
So in the true sense of the word something is either unique or it is not unique.
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...So in the true sense of the word something is either unique or it is not unique...
The chopper has this one.
Unique is an absolute and cannot be qualified.
Those that do demonstrate their poor grasp of the language to those that don't.
I suspect the point is lost on the majority of the population, but that doesn't make it incorrect.
I was going to say: "make it any less correct,", but we all know something is either correct or it is not. :)
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>>
>>
>> So in the true sense of the word something is either unique or it is
>> not unique.
>>
>>
You can't have "not unique", that is modifying unique, just like almost unique. :)
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Alright Cliff ......it is either unique or the opposite of unique .....'common' .....
Some people maintain that 'perfect' is also an absolute term like unique, and therefore cannot be modified by qualifiers of degree...........:0)
Last edited by: retpocileh on Wed 23 Mar 11 at 15:06
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>> What is wrong with the concept of something being almost the only one?
>>
>> Nothing at all Cliff, nothing at all, but not in the strict grammatical definition of
>> the word
>>
>> Zeddo has the definition of unique wrong .
>>
>> The strict definition of something as unique means that it 'is' the 'only' one....therefore any
>> qualifications of the word will and do change that strict meaning.
No I am right, the definition has changed. Yours is outdated. As soon as "some" people accept a different meaning on something, it changes and can mean different things, or become slightly ambiguous.
Hence unique now has multiple meanings.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 23 Mar 11 at 15:14
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OK Z lets put it in terms that hopefully even you can understand. Good job its a quiet day at the office.
You say above that unique means "unusual or special in some way". You might accept that as meaning the same ,I do not.
What happens when you want a GUID for your computer...
Do you want something "unusual or special in some way" or do you want something which is unique?
Unique is an absolute .
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You say.
Other people accept different meanings in a different context .
I am sure even you can understand the different usage of English words and phrases based on the context being used.
Even if you cant, your understanding is not important, its the general usage and understanding that is.
Its not your personal language that you invented, nor are you the arbiter of how it should and should not be interpreted or used. You don't have that authority. No-one does.
I hope that clears it up for you.
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You say.
Other people accept different meanings in a different context
Er - where do I say that then??????
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Your post above reads like it is putting words into my mouth....
Shows the importance of choosing your words and their meanings correctly. Am I unique in wanting that ?
As I said above you can believe what you like Z but my standards will be maintained......
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>> Your post above reads like it is putting words into my mouth....
>>
>> Shows the importance of choosing your words and their meanings correctly. Am I unique in wanting that ?
>>
>> As I said above you can believe what you like Z but my standards will
>> be maintained......
>>
That's not the way I read it;
''You say.'' (Pause)
''Other people accept different meanings in a different context.''
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Am I unique in wanting that ?
Almost :-)
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>> how
>> it should and should not be interpreted
Careful, Z. According to AC, words can not be interpreted. They have an absolute meaning and anyone who tries to interpret what is being said is a buffoon.
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>> According to AC
No, you be careful, Alanovic.
I didn't say any of those things.
Heh heh.
:o}
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'New, Improved!'
AARRGGHH!!!!
if its genuinely new, it cannot be an improved version.
if its improved, then it's not new, only modified to be better....
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The one that gives me most pain is 'insightful'.
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People on blogs or networking sites that use "methinks" you'd never say that out loud would you ?
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Using Shakespearean language Zero ? :-)
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Occasionaly yes, tho tis a habit more honoured in the breach than the observance.
>> Using Shakespearean language Zero ? :-)
>>
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Cudgel thy brains no more about it........
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>> "methinks" you'd never say that out loud would you ?
I used to have a (Jamaican) friend who did. It didn't sound silly either. It sounded funny, the way he meant it to.
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If anyone saw the episode of "Lewis" aired last Sunday and is also, as am I, a bit of an apostrophe nut, they will have been quietly gratified to note that one of the clues leading to the baddie, was a series of misplaced apostrophes in plurals on noticeboards, seen in places where aforesaid villain had a presence!
Excellent, I thought.
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This will upset you language compulsive obsessives, the "word" LOL has made it into the OED.
Imagine the horror! txt and net speak being made acceptable!
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Roger
As an 'apostrophe nut' have you got something wrong or are you being deliberately Machiavellian by putting an apostrophe after 'leading to the baddies' ?
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>> This will upset you language compulsive obsessives, the "word" LOL has made it into the
>> OED.
>>
>> Imagine the horror! txt and net speak being made acceptable!
>>
Granny has died.
LOL,
Mummy
(LOL = Lots of Love)
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was the culprit a greengrocer?
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Or possibly the garage down the road that does MOT's.
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I just had a call from someone who said "I'd like to offer you a white paper on optimising data quality in the enterprise".
I asked what that meant in English as that was incomprehensible babble to me and she was miffed, so we ended the conversation.
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A White Paper is something to do with government and the Enterprise is a space ship so I understand your confusion!
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You dont speak the language,
She means " I want to sell you a company wide database with lots of extra bits tacked on"
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I'm being disingenuous. I do speak the language but I object to it, so I prefer to make suppliers rephrase it in English or I won't do business with them.
Weeds out the ridiculous ones.
When I recruit I also throw 50% of cvs in the bin unread, as who wants to employ unlucky people?
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>> When I recruit I also throw 50% of cvs in the bin unread, as who
>> wants to employ unlucky people?
Like it!
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>> was the culprit a greengrocer?
>>
No, it was you! ;-)
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=5981&m=132714&v=e
"not sure your are being miserly"
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When was anyone last personally addressed as "guv" ? Or that other gem, "squire"?
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>> When was anyone last personally addressed as "guv" ? Or that other gem, "squire"?
>>
12.22 on Thursday.
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I sometimes the term "Guv" in conversation, and the term "Chief", rarely use the term "Squire"
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>> When was anyone last personally addressed as "guv" ? Or that other gem, "squire"?
I've been addressed as Guv, Squire, Colonel, Boss, Gaffer, Chief, and Young Man by the nicer folk that I've met.
It was Squire when a parcel was delivered last week.
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A pet hate - "Guys" addressed to males and/or females indiscriminately, often heard on TV - seems patronising to me.
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Just for you then, "Ladies, Gentlemen, and miserable Roger".
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For reasons I won't go into because as ever, it will make me look an idiot, I had to address a group of four young lads in Tesco this week and struggled to find an opening word. I picked "guys", I'm afraid.
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"For reasons I won't go into because as ever, it will make me look an idiot, I had to address a group of four young lads in Tesco"
Are you the supervisor for the trolley collectors?
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:) Not the supervisor no, I don't work there.
Ok, I'm used to looking like an idiot, why should I worry?
I found a £20 note on the floor, and they were a few feet away, so I asked if any of them had dropped it. As it turned out, my expectations that one would say yes immediately were proved wrong (a poor judge of character, me), so they denied it belonged to them.
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The ever powerful *not me mate* response of a teen male :-)
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...I found a £20 note on the floor...
Crankcase,
Even when you find money you still refuse to treat your long-suffering wife to something nice. :)
Did it not occur the twenty quid would have been well-spent on flowers and chocolates?
Don't tell me, you went straight to the bank and paid it in against your mortgage account.
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No, I went to customer services and handed it over. I don't know if some little old lady was in a panic over it.
They wanted to do all the "after 28 days you can claim it" rigmarole, but I can't be doing with that so told them to put it in the charity box if nobody claimed it.
Did I do wrong?
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...Did I do wrong?...
Not in my eyes.
Although I've found a note in the street a couple of times and kept it.
I would only keep the note when it's clear ownership cannot be established at the scene.
Seems more trouble than it's worth to go to the police station and go through the form filling.
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>>...I found a £20 note on the floor...
I once found a £10 note and asked the woman standing nearby "is this your tenner lady?"
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>> For reasons I won't go into because as ever, it will make me look an
>> idiot, I had to address a group of four young lads in Tesco this week
>> and struggled to find an opening word. I picked "guys", I'm afraid.
>>
What's wrong with "Right, you 'orrible lot!" ?
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Whats wrong with using the term "Lads"?
How you initially address gangs of boys depends on the situation, and how you want it to progress or deteriorate or resolve.
If you have the bottle, the body language and the confidence, call them "Boys"
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"call them "Boys""
if you're trying to get into their underpants
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Whats wrong with using the term "Lads"?
No "Lads" is used to describe footballers in their late twenties earning £10,000 a week
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>> A pet hate - "Guys" addressed to males and/or females indiscriminately, often heard on TV
>> - seems patronising to me.
>>
+1
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>> A pet hate - "Guys" addressed to males and/or females indiscriminately
>> +1
+2
Especially when uttered by anyone over 50.
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>>>>> A pet hate - "Guys" addressed to males and/or females indiscriminately >> +1 +2
Especially when uttered by anyone over 50.
Oh dear... I hope I don't meet you guys in the street :-)
Round here an all male younger group would be lads, if girls are included it would be guys. Boss is often used to someone 40+ if you don't know their name.
Remember ther trouble comes when you are ignored and not referred to!
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 15 Apr 11 at 10:16
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Everybody around here is called 'Pal'.
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In the north east, 'pet' and 'hun' is still in regular use.
Some shop staff use 'pet' to customers, which grates on me.
I'm not inclined to say anything because they mean well.
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Round here I still get called "love" by older ladies. At 41 and going a bit baldy, I've kind of had enough of that.
When I bought my first proper house aged 29, I still had door knockers asking me if my parents were home. I was tempted to say yes, then give them my Mum's address 200 miles away. I expect this is becoming an increasing hazard for the door-to-door salesperson as more peole stay at home welching off their parents in to their 30s.
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Call me old fashioned but I hate such familiarity with a passion.
I cannot abide being addressed by my first name or as 'Mate' or even worse 'Matey', particularly by youngsters , tradesmen, waiters or people who phone me up that I have never met in my life. '
'Sir' is and always has been fine with me.
Call me self important if you like but I feel the way I am addressed by people that I do not know or are serving me in some way should contain a measure of respect . I respected my elders when I was young and do not see why if youngsters ( in particular ) expect respect they should not give it.
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>> Call me self important if you like
I will.
but I feel the way I am addressed
>> by people that I do not know or are serving me in some way should
>> contain a measure of respect . I respected my elders when I was young and
>> do not see why if youngsters ( in particular ) expect respect they should not
>> give it.
In fact, so self important and pompous you can't see you are being given a form of respect. You cant demand respect, you earn it.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 15 Apr 11 at 11:29
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I was just listening to Ken Bruce's pop quiz with Zoe Ball.
She asked the contestant, a teacher, if all his pupil's liked him. He said - we're not there to be liked, we're there to be respected.
Here's me, thinking they were there to teach.
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...He said - we're not there to be liked, we're there to be respected...
He's on a light-hearted entertainment show answering a non-question.
Why can he not just smile and say something like: "I hope so."
Oh no, we have to have a mini-lecture.
Typical ruddy teacher.
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>> Why can he not just smile and say something like: "I hope so."
I'm assuming your tongue was in your cheek iffy - I suspect the teacher's was when he said it, as just a light-hearted alternative to "no they don't".
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Seriously, old boy, get a grip. Is your real name Meldrew?
I hate being called 'sir'. I'm a working man, same as 'tradesmen', etc etc. Why am I any better than them?
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I'll chuck my hat in the ring with our helicopter member - I hate "mate" as well, and am quite happy with sir, at for example, my car dealer.
I also hate being called by my first name by telephone sales people or banks, etc.
But to be fair, I use "sir" myself for other people if it seems appropriate, so it cuts both ways.
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Thanks Crankcase for your support.
I too reciprocate by calling other people ' sir' in appropriate circumstances ......
as in 'surely not sir' when being accused of driving at 33 mph in a 30 zone......
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You do of course, have to be a little aware of how you speak. The other day I was speaking to a nice Indian lady at a call centre who didn't give me the answer i was looking for. Because this is how I speak (I can't help it, thank you), I said "Would you be an absolute lambkin and pop me up a level?" and we had all sorts of fun and games from that point onwards.
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>> Because this is how I speak
>> (I can't help it, thank you), I said "Would you be an absolute lambkin and
>> pop me up a level?"
>>
I think I would recognise your style if we ever met by chance somewhere in darkest Africa.
Mr Crankcase, I presume?
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>> 'Mr Crankcase, I presume?'
'You presume correctly, Your Holiness. I wonder if you'd be an absolute lambkin and hurl anathema at these chaps with spears dancing round my cauldron? It's getting a trifle warm in here although I must admit I needed the bath... '
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La, sir, you make too free.
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If you haven't seen it Crankcase, you will probably like the Dr Johnson joke in the middle of the left-hand letters page I think in this week's Private Eye. In fact anyone would like it, especially if they had had Dr Johnson quoted at them regularly in childhood and acquired, until maturity set in, the (absolutely erroneous) impression that the Great Lexicographer had a thuggish, bullying side.
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Is it online? Otherwise - a conundrum. How to access the source material without breaking the two prerequisites of not going out and not spending any money. :)
Perhaps it will be in the public library. I can manage that. Scrooge, is, as it were, my own Boswell.
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Asked for a small coffee in a local cafe this morning. We don't do small, I was told, only medium and large .
I guess medium in the new small.
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Isn't medium the new regular?
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First time I went to New York I made the mistake of ordering a large black coffee and a roast beef sandwich in a diner.
The coffee came in what can only be decribed as a pottery pint pot and the sandwich was so big it had reinforcing sticks through it to hold it together.
At first I thought they had decided to play a practical joke on "the tourist" but as I watched the other customer's orders being delivered I realised that this was seen as a normal portion.
No wonder there are so many fat yanks, and what's with the white trousers when they're on holiday?
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Dont forget the white shoes.
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>>
>>
>> as in 'surely not sir' when being accused of driving at 33 mph in a
>> 30 zone......
>>
Perhaps the pink striped plus-fours are a trifle, ahem, loud, Sir?
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Our granddaughter says "like" for every third or fourth word. We thought about asking her why, but we assume that her English teacher approves and that we're behind the times.
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Approves?? She probably taught it... :-)
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>> Our granddaughter says "like" for every third or fourth word. We thought about asking her
>> why, but we assume that her English teacher approves and that we're behind the times.
>>
I like know a teacher that uses "like" every third or fourth word. I think it's cool like.
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In my younger days, when you were at school you were a pupil and you didn't progress to being a student until you went to either a college or a university. Nowadays some schoolchildren refer to themselves as students.
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>>when you were at school you were a pupil
>>Nowadays some schoolchildren refer to themselves as students.
A school pupil is a student.
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"A school pupil is a student."
Correct, but what L'Es is saying that in the sixties say a pupil at a school would not have thought of themselves as, or used the term student, which as I recall was almost exlusively used for and by those attending higher education. It is indeed a good example of how the use of words changes.
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And not so long ago, L'Es might have been either square or hep.
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Definitely Square, I cant imagine he was ever Hep!
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Everybody on this forum is most definitely 'square' (almost by definition).
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One of the greatest rock and roll lyrics:
"The warden said hey buddy don't you be no square
If you can't find a partner use a wooden chair"
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Elvis...Jailhouse Rock
The first ever single I bought and fell in love with the flip side One Night.
Oh soooo long ago!
Pat
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The Google news archive tells me the first recorded occurrence of "cool dude" that they have is July 1970, whilst the earliest "hot chick" that isn't a recipe is 1967.
I thought they'd be later than that, somehow.
"Square, daddy-o" is 1960, and I thought that would have been earlier.
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"Square, daddy-o" is 1960,
"Square" is much older.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_(slang)
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>> or used the term student, which as
>> I recall was almost exlusively used for and by those attending higher education. It is
>> indeed a good example of how the use of words changes.
>>
Higher education, yes. But at university we were undergraduates.
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...Higher education, yes. But at university we were undergraduates...
And snobs by the sound of it. :)
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'But at university we were undergraduates.'
So you didn't have a Student's Union then?
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>>
>>
>> So you didn't have a Student's Union then?
>>
No
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Just show how wrong you can be. I though all universities back in the sixties had student unions, even Oxford and Cambridge, in fact I think they still do.
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At one time we had topics and problems. Now we just have issues.
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>> At one time we had topics and problems. Now we just have issues.
Not that's so wrong.
We have opportunities
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At one time we had disadvantages. Now we have downsides.
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At one time we had advantages. Now we have upsides.
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At one time we had chances. Now we have windows of opportunity.
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One time we had a lovely language - now we have carp, innit?
At this moment in time
Upcoming
Top of the hour
Give us a sense of how it feels
Give me a break!
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Thu 21 Apr 11 at 15:15
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In the day.
In which day FFS
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>> One time we had a lovely language - now we have carp, innit?
That's right, it was called Celtic. Then you blimmin' Angles, Saxons, Romans and Normans came and naffed it up.
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>>>> One time we had a lovely language
Everything changes at the end of the day, all things being equal. Know what I mean?
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Of course - it's a no-brainer.
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>> Everything changes at the end of the day, all things being equal. Know what I
>> mean?
>>
What time is the end of the day? Is it 23:59, or 23:59:59, or is it even more precise than that?
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Even Radio 4 have started talking about the "top of the show" - PM or Today can't remember but still damned bad.
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A friend was telling her younger relatives about her late husband, saying how cheerful and happy he always was. The friend said "He was a gay old thing." Her 6 year old granddaughter replied "Oh Grandma, he wasn't was he?"
The writer of the lyrics of the song Grenada must be turning in his grave. "Then moonlit Granada will live again the glory of yesterday
Romantic and gay!!!"
www.lyricsdepot.com/frankie-laine/grenada.html
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I've just had a letter from Hewlett Packard. I won't name HP, as I don't want to embarrass them, but they are a multi-national company with offices all over the world, including the UK.
Is it just me, or could this paragraph be rewritten in, oh I don't know, English?
In our constant research for improvement in terms of efficiency and for ecological concerns, HP is moving to a new electronic delivery model to provide the software updates in scope to the agreements in force between HP and your company through the Software Update and Licensing portal. This new model will be effective by the June 2011 timeframe.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 26 Apr 11 at 15:20
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Here goes.,
"If you want future software updates, you will have to log into our web site as we will stop sending them. Its being done to save us money, but we will fraudulently claim it as a green measure for tax purposes." It may happen by June 2011, or later.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 26 Apr 11 at 15:48
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Heh heh. My favourite example of fact evasion are the notices they flash up on the M6 Toll road when they've put the price up again or are about to.
'Price "changes" apply' is the usual softener. They could just say, 'Price "increases" apply' I mean, it only avoids the reality for a couple of miles !
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>> Heh heh. My favourite example of fact evasion are the notices they flash up on
>> the M6 Toll road when they've put the price up again or are about to.
I dislike the 'Toll road clear' message they display before you get to the toll road - it would be more useful if they told you what the state of the ordinary M6 was.
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The problem there is that, if they said "Toll Free M6 clear", it wouldn't be for very long. Thus defeating the object of the toll road.
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Between 6.00 am and 8.00pm on weekdays it would just read "Knackered" !
:-)
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Yup, you don't need signs, you know its a no go area. If it isn't, it will be by the time you are on it.
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Actually they could just have a catch all sign for peak periods. "M6 stuffed and so's Catthorpe, same old"
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The toll road is like 1st class postage stamps...if everyone refused to use them, there would be no call for them and they would't exist.
Pat
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Very true
We would all be stuck on the M6 and our letters would take weeks to arrive.
Bit of a communist on the QT are we Pat?
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It's nothing to do with communism and everything to do with supply and demand Zero.
Pat
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Yes supply second class service to all at high cost?
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>> supply second class service to all at high cost?
A speciality of all political colours and parties.
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Indeed, but at least the capitalist society provides a higher cost alternative for those who can or wish to pay for it.
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>> It's nothing to do with communism and everything to do with supply and demand Zero.
>>
>> Pat
To make it road specific Pat, there is more than enough demand for a motorway grade A14, but no supply of it in the past present or future.
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Don't get me started on the A14.
With the exception of Catthorpe, which needs a complete redesign, the problem points are Kettering, Huntingdon, Cambridge and in a lesser capacity, Bury.
Those areas would have a lot less traffic if only the locals could be persuaded to use the local roads they used before it was built.
Kettering is particularly bad in this respect with so many junctions in a short length and the problems are caused by Mrs A dithering down the slip road to go a mile on the A14 to have coffee with Mrs B.
Mrs A doesn't do above 42MPH because speed kills.
Mrs A doesn't like busy roads and complains that the accident figures are horrendous and it should be widened.
Mrs B of course agrees but they don't want the widening to take up anymore of their local countryside, or have any facilities to be built that would 'attract' those nasty lorries that the road was built for.
Repeat this scenario at Huntingdon, Cambridge and Bury and a lot of the problems are explained.
I agree it's a heavily used bit of road, but the situation is aggravated as soon as you put 'leisure' drivers into the equation of those using it for the purpose it was intended.
I include any car travelling more than 20 miles on it, before I'm misjudged!
Pat
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The M25 is another road which has problems with junction hoppers and those making long journeys.
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Perhaps there should be a new A14 toll road built just for lorries?
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Actually that would be a good idea. It's a pity the UK did not embrace a system of privately funded toll roads. If it had we might have a road system comparable with France.
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you cant really compare France. Same population as us (around the 60 million mark) but France has around 260,558 sq miles of land while we have 93278 sq miles.
When you visit areas of France with a similar density to the UK, you see the same traffic problems.
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...you cant really compare France...
I was wondering where the land was going to come from for these endless new roads.
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You don't need endless new roads but there are some obvious deficiencies in the road system of the UK and they are not going to be filled if we rely on public money to do the job.
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In that case we will build a brand new 8 lane motorway from Felixstowe docks to the M6/M1 junction.
It will mean knocking down Cambridge, Sudbury and St Neots, but on the upside Rushden and
Wellingborough will need to be flattened.
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Not that worried about St Neots being flattened. :)
I freely admit we junction hop on the A14 for our commute - but there is actually no sensible alternative.
There is a nice little road that goes from the next village into the back of Cambridge, much shorter than the A14, quiet as you like, direct, excellent in every way. But it goes across an old airfield, and is "access only", so you can't legally use it. Very occasionally the police hang about there and ticket people so we don't use it. Much.
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"In that case we will build a brand new 8 lane motorway from Felixstowe docks to the M6/M1 junction.'
Something like that is actually what is needed. It is rather odd that the country's major port has no motorway links to the country's major manufacturing areas or the capital.
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I knew someone would assume I'm meaning that only lorries should use it hence the explanation.
Incidentally, why should lorries pay a toll?
Don't you think the amount of tax on deisel, road tax and many other charges required to comply with operating restrictions are sufficient.
After all, any further tax on the Haulage Industry is ultimately passed down to the consumer....all of us.
Pat
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Wiki >> A trunk road, trunk highway, or strategic road is a major road—usually connecting two or more cities, ports, airports, and other things.—which is the recommended route for long-distance and freight traffic.
For the benefit of the junction hoppers and those who want the lorries removed to a toll road.
Pat
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>> Perhaps there should be a new A14 toll road built just for lorries?
>>
We used to have almost that.
In fact we have 2 types.
one was the railway, and the other canals......
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There is no canal from Felixstowe to Rugby!
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>> There is no canal from Felixstowe to Rugby!
I think it can be done. Get down the Wash to King's Lynn. There used to be a route to Peterborough on the Nene, then IIRC Oundle, Wellingborough, Northampton, Grand Union and Bob's your uncle.
Probably only take a few weeks.
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Quicker to go via the Thames and up the Grand Union and the Oxford Canal North
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At one time (in the media) we had scenes and photographs. Now we have images.
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It's complex, with myriad official redefinitions, and I appreciate I'm entirely incorrect, but I still prefer to think of myself as a British subject and not a citizen.
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>> It's complex, with myriad official redefinitions, and I appreciate I'm entirely incorrect, but I still
>> prefer to think of myself as a British subject and not a citizen.
>>
Imagine the scene. There's a referendum on the Abolition of the Monarchy. I'm a canvasser coming to your house for the "YES" campaign, and you tell me that you think of yourself as a "subject".
Me:"OK then, Mr CC, I'll put you down as a *Maybe* shall I?"
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Whatever makes you think I'd answer the door?
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My grandparents used to call a nearby road "the turnpike".
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>> My grandparents used to call a nearby road "the turnpike".
Yes, that is how a lot of our road network was built; privately financed toll roads known as turnpikes. The term is still commonly in use in the US
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 27 Apr 11 at 20:17
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At one time we got a reply. Now we get a response.
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Is that a problem? sorry I mean Issue.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 28 Apr 11 at 11:13
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At one time we had gun battles. Now we have firefights.
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At one time we had sword fights, then we got gun battles.
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Bur fire-fighters don't fight battles they put out fires, a job formerly done by firemen.
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Except railway Firemen who actually light them and keep them going.
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...Bur fire-fighters don't fight battles they put out fires, a job formerly done by firemen...
Last time I read the Telegraph they had gone back to using 'firemen'.
Quite right too, so long as they are sure.
Some brigades have a handful of firewomen on operational duty.
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I don't see why a fireman can't be female, just like a chairman.
Better than fireperson.
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...I don't see why a fireman can't be female, just like a chairman...
Nor do I, but the fire service, like the police service, is a strange organisation when it comes to political correctness.
With public money to waste, they have people who seem to have little else to do other than try to influence the media.
Go and fight some fires?
Certainly not, far more important to have meetings about how we are portrayed in the press.
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I don't see a problem with the word Firefighters. It doesn't even need to be used just to please the political correctness lobby, but instead I feel provides a more accurate description of the role.
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...I don't see a problem with the word Firefighters...
In isolation, there isn't.
The problem is the brigade's insidious phoney political correctness agenda which lies behind it.
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I don't see why a fireman can't be female, just like a chairman...
Chairmen are now chairs so firemen should be fires.
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"Some brigades have a handful of firewomen on operational duty"
Brewing up and polishing helmets?
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>> At one time we had gun battles. Now we have firefights.
>>
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256676
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How language has changed - Zero
