Copper is saying strong message.It seems to be happening regulary Knive stabbings no deterrent up to now.(cowards.
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I would execute this lot as a matter of financial expediency, if nothing else.
We now have to pay to feed and water each of them in prison for 10 or more years, and then what?
Do they return to the bosoms of their supportive families?
Doubt it.
Career opportunities for ill-educated feral murderers are likely to be limited, so it will be a life on benefits and/or a return to crime.
The cost, in money terms alone, will be millions, then there's the negative impact upon nearly everyone they come into contact with.
About the best we can hope is one or two of them prove me wrong and drag themselves out of the gutter.
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According to the grumbly faces there appears to be a few lily livers here who can't face facts. It's you and your ilk that has got us into the mire.
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Although I don't agree with the death penalty I'm rapidly changing my mind when I read about such happenings. At the very least, life should mean life - preferably with hard labour.
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Have you no knowledge of history? do you not remember mods and rockers stabbings?
You have a right cheek, You post stuff up to be deliberately racially provocative, and then you have a go at us and call us names because we dare to disprove? The country is in whatever state you think it is because the likes of you helped promote it.
Your attitude stinks. I didn't put up a grumbly face by the way, I told you here.
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>> deliberately racially provocative,
Yes Zero. There's a fair amount of closet racism here, not just from MD.
The sad thing about it is that such people are not usually aware that they themselves are racist. They just have a sort of unformed idea that people of colour in this country are generally (although with exceptions) morally and intellectually inferior to whites, and seize eagerly on press reports of this kind, with photos, which seem to support that view.
It would be much better if people who don't really have the slightest idea what people of colour are like, or why they are like that, or what we seem like to them, or that 'race' is pretty small beer in the spectrum of human variety, didn't bother their pretty little heads about that sort of thing.
That way our noses wouldn't sometimes be offended by a whiff of something long dead but still lying in the sun.
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Playing the race card is missing the point.
The deeds of these young men were despicable.
It matters not what colour they are.
Black, white, or in between, I'd still hang 'em.
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>> Playing the race card
It was the OP that 'played the race card', but without acknowledging the fact or making it explicit.
Your, er, traditionalist views on the High Jump are another matter altogether Iffy.
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...It was the OP that 'played the race card', but without acknowledging the fact or making it explicit...
Assumptions are usually worthless, and those are bigger assumptions than most.
Had I linked to the story, would I have been playing the race card?
If the murderers were white, would you be bleating about discrimination then?
There's a racial element in the story in that I doubt they would have chased and killed the lad had he been black.
Just as those equally dreadful creatures - A'Court and his mates - wouldn't have killed their victim had he been white.
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These cowards behaved like a pack of animals, hunted and chased the lad down and killed him, even the copper likened them to animals.
They do not belong in a civilised society, that up now they probably haven't contributed one positive thing to, unless keeping coppers and courts in full time work is now an honourable alternative career.
I couldn't give a fig what colour they are, they are a menace to anyone not of their gang and a disgrace to their families, who i hope feel as shamed as they should for their lack of guidance and supervision of their feral children.
Maybe it's a city thing, not as i intend to discover, they can wall the dumps in for all i care, the only time i ever set foot in the hell holes is when i'm paid to go there, and the best bit of the visit is the road out.
We as a nation haven't done well, we allowed it to happen and we all share in it's guilt by permitting it to get to this point, worse to come when the money to prop up the falling house of cards runs out i fear.
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...and a disgrace to their families, who i hope feel as shamed as they should...
I doubt it, given the unruly scenes at the Old Bailey when they were sentenced.
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>> would you be bleating about discrimination then?
You're the one that's bleating, my son. You're bleating that closet racism isn't racism because it's closet.
And talking of ridiculous assumptions, Iffers,
'There's a racial element in the story in that I doubt they would have chased and killed the lad had he been black' takes a bit of beating.
So you're an expert on South London schoolboy gangs are you? Well, blow me down.
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>> 'There's a racial element in the story in that I doubt they would have chased
>> and killed the lad had he been black' takes a bit of beating.
I'd always understood the vast majority of violent crime carried out by black youths had black youths as the victim.
Not that I'm an expert, but that is my understanding.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Fri 5 Aug 11 at 13:36
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>> I'd always understood the vast majority of violent crime carried out by black youths had
>> black youths as the victim.
>>
>> Not that I'm an expert, but that is my understanding.
This is just the first Google hit that I got for "black on black crime"
tinyurl.com/l8lmg2
"The figures do not record the ethnicity of the killers but, by and large, murderers tend mostly to target members of their own ethnic group."
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Fri 5 Aug 11 at 13:40
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What happened to the lads who killed Stephen Lawrence?
Did they get away with it scot free.I can't remember.
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Thanks Iffy.
It took a long while didn't it,I believe his parents got divorced due to stress.
Black or white young men carrying knives are cowards.I've had a few fisty cuffs,never put the boot in won a few lost a few thats live.
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I think two men are currently awaiting trial.
tinyurl.com/6zm5uyk
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A recent study in the US suggested the murder rate in states with capital punishment had stabilized. When in the moratorium on putting people to death was introduced, murders went up. When the penalty was re-introduced, murders went down.
Despite the statistics, I am against the death penalty. Why, lots and lots of reasons, but some are here.
I don't trust everyone. Local coppers (most coppers are good but you do get bad uns) murdered a guy, he was stark naked and they shot him. He had no weapon. The CPS didn't present evidence. Now I know there are two sides to every story, the bloke in question was a dealer. The saga was so bad that the Govt. sacked the chief constable! Also think of the West Midlands Serious Crime Sqaud
I don't trust the media. Look at the eccentric landlord from Bristol last Christmas. I think the press were so bad (good) at winding everyone up about his supposed guilt that if the guy went to certain areas at the wrong time he would not have got out alive!
I don't trust politicians or people elected to their jobs - Texas judge being prosecuted for going home so a last minute appeal could not be heard. Also the Cameron Todd Willingham case where new evidence to support his innocence was refused! How would you like your case being up before a home secretary clemency in the weeks before a general election?
I don't like the cost. California pays £114m a year more to have the death penalty then not!
I don't like putting innocent people to death: Timothy Evans. Not put to death but would have been? Sean Hodgeson, Some doubt and cleared on a recent review after 50 years: George Kelly. Famous fake or missing evidence: The Birmingham Six, The Guilford Four. Now I have heard policemen say these people were guilty but that they got their appeals on technicalities. It seems the Guilford Four really were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
If all reporting of a murder and trial were banned until sentence then I may change my mind on the media influence, but as the death penalty sells papers, they would find ways to report rubbish, stir up hatred and influence police and politicians.
Not all murders are the same, yet the current system in the UK only has one type of murder. A home owner protecting his home may well be put on trial for their life, just for protecting their life!
Z
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Unfortunately the closet racism of which you speak and the casual racist remarks made by people who are not actively racist tends to reinforce the view of the the few really nasty types who are led to believe that a significant proportion of the population stands behind them and their actions.
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I've been worrying about having posted in this thread.
I have been consciously non- and anti-racist since I was a child. Children are clear-sighted on some level that adults aren't always, and living in Ceylon, as it was then called, I was struck by the contrast between the apparent adult attitude to 'the locals' and the way the locals actually seemed to be. Perhaps more a question of ordinary social discourse than deep-down attitudes, because my parents certainly weren't 'racist' as the term is understood. It was more a social thing.
Anyway: having enjoyed and benefited from good friendships across national, racial and class divides, sometimes very wide ones, for over fifty years, my views of all this are quite chilled. I don't ever feel the need to show others, either white or foreign, that I'm not bigoted in this way. Either they can see it for themselves or they are idiots.
But not everyone has that experience or the advantages that go with it. Sometimes, as a result, someone can feel abashed or personally attacked when one tries to say something about it. For example a little while ago I reproved Dog quite mildly for jokily making a 'Hitler was right I sometimes think' post, explaining that this offends Jews, or many of them, even when said in jest. He hasn't posted since and I am worrying about it.
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Wouldn't worry AC. When has posting an opinion on an internet forum ever successfully persuaded anyone to change their's? People just read and either agree or not usually no matter how well argued or constructed or indeed evidenced a case is put. Water off duck's backs in the main.
:-)
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... Water off duck's backs in the main...
Which hopefully applies to both sides.
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Difficult this one, you are very open minded A.C and fair,have you as a neighbour any time.;)
I have been brought up to treat people a equals.At sea with had all different nationalities on board we had no problems.
Remember once going ashore in Malmo with a few lads from the Cape Verdi.They where frightened to go in a restaurant for a meal.I took them in and there was no problem.
Sister got mugged twice in Rotterdam by black people,once on the metro and once not far from her home.She is not racist never has been and never will be.She has changed her vieuws a bit now which is a shame but I cant blame her.
What I'm trying to say things can happen in anybodys live which changes a vieuw.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-14420389
This murder caused major issues at the time in Glasgow and , in many people's eyes, gave them the right to be racist.
I remember cycling past the scene of the murder not long after and I felt a chill in my spine as I passed.
This boy was murdered as a trophy killing, his crime was that he was white and was in the wrong place at the wrong time as these guys drove along looking for a victim.
To think that a 15 year old boy got murdered by total strangers purely because of the colour of his skin has forever stuck in my memory.
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>> murder caused major issues at the time in Glasgow and , in many people's eyes, gave them the right to be racist.
But wrongly Bobby, and stupidly. Anyway that case is open and shut. The toerags responsible tried something clever and it didn't work.
In the case of Stephen Lawrence, cold-bloodedly stabbed to death by yobbos for similar loathsome reasons, the culprits were acquitted by a couple of courts and effectively protected for years apparently by, in the first instance, corrupt and racist local CID for whom the father of one of the murderers, a professional criminal, was (in the charming manner not unusual in those circles) an informer.
How do you suppose that made South Londoners of Caribbean extraction 'feel'? And what do you suppose it told them about the society they had adopted for their own?
Doreen Lawrence has a connection with a Trinidadian circle that I frequent, and I've met her. That ghastly event has blighted her life, and she doesn't deserve it any more than her poor son did.
I'll say something risky now, Bobby: your Glasgow Asian toerags wouldn't feel they could behave like that if we the British weren't just as bad or worse.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 5 Aug 11 at 19:07
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-14420389
>>
>> This murder caused major issues at the time in Glasgow and , in many people's
>> eyes, gave them the right to be racist.
Given that half the people in Glasgow hate the other half because of Football and Religion, they dont need an excuse to be racist
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>> hate the other half because of Football and Religion, they dont need an excuse to be racist
Heh heh... any more than the voice of shrewd home counties reason does innit... mind you those Scots may try a counter-attack...
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The country is in whatever state you think it is because the likes of you helped promote it. Your attitude stinks.
You are some Richard head my friend. All I have ever promoted was hard work, paying taxes and playing the 'Game'. Good old fashioned values. I have many foreign friends particularly Indians and based my business model on listening to a one successful Indian Gentleman.
My moan is not racist. My moan is that you Lily Livers think that this behaviour is somehow OK and people like me shouldn't raise the flag of complaint. I care not whether the perpetrators are/were White, Black, or Pink with spots. It matters not. It is their RUDDY attitude to the rest of decent society that really chuffs me off. Get every one of them on their own and see how brave they are (colour regardless). They too think that it is fine to call upon the services of the state when they have a problem. Do they use a dentist, a Doctor, an Ambulance, the Fire service?????? because as sure as sharks bite they probably use the free money handed out to wasters like them and as sure as bears shi in the woods they don't use the revenue service.
As Iffy said get rid of them because they are never going to contribute anything, just bleed us dry. No I don't believe in Adolph et al......I just believe in a level playing field and justice for all.
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>> because as sure as sharks bite
Some sharks are filter feeders...I suppose they could give you a good filtering.
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Sorry what the hell is a Lily Liver Martin?
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Go prick thy face and over-red thy fear,
Thou lily-liver'd boy. What soldiers, patch?
Death of thy soul! Those linen cheeks of thine
Are counselors to fear. What soldiers, whey-face?
Macbeth
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>>> My moan is that you Lily Livers think that this behaviour is somehow OK and people like me shouldn't raise the flag of complaint.
Oh really MD. I haven't seen a single post suggesting anything of the sort. Surely you don't imagine that Zero say, or I for that matter, find anything acceptable or OK in stupid racist murder?
If what you are saying in your rant above is that you don't like stupid racist murder, and you don't like parasites battening on the taxpayer, and you don't care what colour they are, do you really think anyone is going to disagree with you? Even I don't disagree, and I learned as a child to dislike the kind of rhetoric you are using (as opposed to what you are saying which is fine as far as it goes).
But if you wanted to make that point, without anyone suspecting you of closet racism, I have to say that the link you gave was extraordinarily ill-chosen.
However your wounded-buffalo post is the sort of thing I was worrying about in my post above wishing I hadn't got into this thread. I can tell you I don't appreciate being called a lily-liver, even when not by name. In fact God knows what colour my poor liver is after the poteen last night.
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>> However your wounded-buffalo post is the sort of thing I was worrying about in my
>> post above wishing I hadn't got into this thread. I can tell you I don't
>> appreciate being called a lily-liver, even when not by name. In fact God knows what
>> colour my poor liver is after the poteen last night.
>>
As long as your sight is still intact Sir!!
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Locked. The reason should be apparent.
You rating buttons should still work if you agree/disagree with 'certain' posts in this thread.
Vx.
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Haven't we done well - Zero
