Non-motoring > What would you do? Miscellaneous
Thread Author: MD Replies: 18

 What would you do? - MD
Sue Cann was 'shocked' when she learnt small print in the contract for dad Kenneth's care stated the private home required four weeks warning of his passing away.
Miss Cann, 54, has now been landed with the hefty charge and said it was 'ridiculous' people needed to give prior notice of when they were going to die.
She said she is appalled by the 'callous' conduct of the Highcliffe Nursing Home in Dorset.
In a letter sent to her a day after her 79 year-old father's funeral, they stated: "...a notice period of four weeks (28 days) is required in event of a resident moving out or passing away."
Miss Cann said: "When the letter came I was so shocked about it.
"According to the letter my father had to give 28 days notice for moving or passing away.
"But how on earth can you do that? Nobody knows when they are going to die. It's ridiculous.
"In effect they are saying that you have to pay 28 days after you have passed away. I think that is really so callous.
"When you have died and can't give notice of your death that's taking advantage and it's daylight robbery."
Mr Cann, who spent 42 years working as a service manager for British Gas, had lived with wife, Winnie, but she passed away aged 74 in March last year from ovarian cancer.
He was admitted to the seaside nursing home, run by Suffolk-based Kingsley Healthcare, 17 months ago after a long battle with dementia. He died on January 30.
Mr Cann, who paid taxes all his working life and saved for his retirement, ended up spending 63,000 pounds on his care for the short time he was there.
Miss Cann, a mobile canine beautician from Christchurch, said: "He worked very hard and he saved as much money as he could for his retirement.
"Then he developed dementia and most of his money had to be spent on his nursing home fees. It's terribly sad.
"My mother signed the contract before she died and I don't know if she was aware of this 28 day clause herself. I was not aware of this until last week.
"Often you sign things and you dont check the very small print. We were more concerned at the time that dad had a place to go.
"He seemed happy there. He was well looked after and I have no complaints at all of their care, it's the issue of the overall owner and the demand for the money.
"It leaves a nasty taste in your mouth."
Miss Cann said she understands the extra fee is to cover the period from her father dying to the home getting a new tenant in.
She said: "I wouldn't mind paying for a week but I really object to a whole month.
"To pay for a month which covers his food, laundry and nursing care it is daylight robbery.
"His belonging were removed from the home on the evening of his death as far as I'm aware. He shared a room so it was clean for the other occupant.
"And to receive the letter the day after his funeral was insensitive. I understand that the nursing home would not necessarily know when his funeral was, although the home sent flowers for his coffin because I informed them. But the letter came from head office."
Miss Cann said she felt she had no choice but to pay for £3,052 bill.
Sheila Scott, chief executive of the National Care Association, said Kingsley Healthcare's policy was not standard practice.
She said: "Contracts for residents will say that they need to give a month's notice if they are going to leave the home. That is fair and reasonable.
"However, when somebody dies it is a completely different matter.
"I would expect a week to 10 days. Time to clear the room, that's what the extra days should be for.
"I don't think it's malicious, but it's insensitive.
"I think some clear guidance for care homes would be helpful as this lady has been so upset and clearly the way it was handled with her was quite insensitive when the letter came quite early."
In a statement, the Highcliffe Nursing Home said: "We value our customers and our association with the community at large of which we work hard to maintain an integrated and respected part.''
A spokesman for Kingsley Healthcare today said that they were changing their notice period for death from 28 days to seven days, which is in line with most other care homes.
Ian Jarvis, finance director for Kingsley said: "We have now reviewed our administrative procedures, including the provision of notices relating to termination following death.
"We have decided to reduce the notice period on death to seven days with immediate effect.
"We do not wish to comment any further on the specific circumstances which brought this matter to our attention as this would be a breach of confidentiality."

Regards…………….MD
 What would you do? - -
I expect the jargon and terms and conditions were written by a computer, i don't mean an electronic one i mean a living breathing one with all the compassion of the witchfinder general, you'd have to be pretty single minded and obtuse to not realise the wording about 28 days notice of death would be inappropriate.

Thats some serious wonga for care, if the fellow now deceased had p'd it up the wall and sponged his whole life we the glorious taxpayer would have provided for him.

The whole system is so grossly unfair.

"We have now reviewed our administrative procedures, including the provision of notices relating to termination following death.''

That could have been phrased better too....same bod as responsible for the initial poor wording?
 What would you do? - John H
>> I expect the jargon and terms and conditions were written by a computer, i don't mean an electronic one i mean a living breathing one with all the compassion of the witchfinder general, >>

.... also known as members of the highly paid and blood sucking parasitic "legal profession".

Many ills of our country can be pointed to that profession, who draft the t&c that go in to data that leads to the "computer to say no". The employee who operates the computer which says "no" has in most cases no authority to use common sense and risks being fired if he/she does show some intelligence and uses their initiative.

 What would you do? - Westpig
>> "We do not wish to comment any further on the specific circumstances which brought this
>> matter to our attention as this would be a breach of confidentiality."


Breach of confidentiality to whom? The lady who posted it in a newspaper (presumably) or the man who died?
 What would you do? - bathtub tom
If her late mother signed the agreement, let them chase her for the money?
 What would you do? - Ted

It's a business. They don't give a tuppeny fart about the relatives once the ' cash cow ' has departed.

A couple of weeks after MiL died in 2009 I got a phone call asking for the thick end of £2500 from the ' matron ' . I'd worked it out that we owed about £750 and she was doing her reckoning up all wrong. I knew I was right, I'd checked the weeks of residence against payments made from the bank. We had quite a ' discussion ; about the matter which ended up with me asking her if she could whistle !

The deputy, who was more in touch and had become quite chummy with SWM,, later rang to say we were correct. I paid the £750 and that was the end of it.

I just hope I don't end up in there !

Ted
 What would you do? - MD
As a much younger man I worked in a few of these places, mostly in London and they ALL left a lot to be desired in terms of care and above all, attitude. It is most appalling just how badly our older folk are treated.

On a similar note the females that I see around here, those that work for companies carry out home care/visits etc. are in the main an undesirable lot. Being in a fairly small and close knit community things often become so apparent. They almost all smoke. Not a crime I know, but would you want fag ash Lil breathing all over you. They are of limited intelligence and there's not one that I would want to be seen dead with. It is quite a disgusting state of affairs. The money exists for us to care for our elderly, it's just that it is wasted in spades on Single Mum's and Ponces who are able to, but won't work. Heaven knows most of these older folk have more than paid their fair share of dues over their lifetimes. Not so much so the 'Burger Belly Brigade' coming through now.

Morning all.....Chip Chip!
 What would you do? - Pat
Some very sweeping and unfair statements there Martin.

Limited intelligence?

How have you come to that conclusion..have you even as much as spoken to the one you 'see' around there?
The vast majority of carers in the home are done by what is known as direct payment. This means the person needing care is the one who chooses, and employs the person caring for them, paying them from a payment awarded to them for that purpose from Social Services.
If they are not suitable they can be sacked and replaced by someone else.

Whilst our care system isn't ideal, I come across a lot of carers who work in care homes and they work hard, for very little in terms of wages but love their jobs.

Pat

 What would you do? - R.P.
Simply put it's an unfair contract - I wouldn't pay.
 What would you do? - Zero
people who run care homes have to make money or the care home wont be there. Empty rooms dont make money. As a senile old wrinkly you are in effect leasing a room, and I don't know any lease contracts that allow you to break them at a moments notice.

Death is not a valid excuse.
 What would you do? - Clk Sec
>>Death is not a valid excuse.

And You are thinking of becoming a landlord.

Potential tenants take note.
 What would you do? - Zero
Just call me Rachman
 What would you do? - Clk Sec
The thought crossed my mind.
 What would you do? - Westpig
If you go in to stay in a good class hotel, you expect some decent service and to be treated well as a customer...same if you went on a cruise (boat version)...

...so why, if you're paying that sort of money, should you be treated like a 3rd class citizen, in a care home?

Some can get it right...why can't the others?

Lethargy, greed, lack of compassion, etc, etc.

I pity the poor sod who ends up having to look after me.

 What would you do? - WillDeBeest
I'd agree with RP, that the term is unfair. If you run a retirement home, you know that a few of your residents will leave voluntarily for whatever reason; but you also know that a lot more will leave because they die. It's reasonable to expect those who choose to leave to give notice or pay anyway, so the contract can transfer that risk, but when you know in advance that the majority of vacancies will occur through death, and your pricing already takes that into account, to expect the dead resident to continue paying for a room you will re-let the minute it's been cleaned is manifestly unfair.

Now for something more controversial. The present generation of 70-90 year olds has benefited hugely - and disproportionately - from the freak increases in the stock and property markets since the 1970s, while seeing the amounts they paid for their assets whittled away to near-nothing by inflation. And yet the mere suggestion that they might use some of these largely unearned assets to fund their own care in old age is greeted with predictable feckless-single-mother-benefit-scrounger-asylum-seeker frothing at the mouth. Discuss.
 What would you do? - madf
Now for something more controversial. The present generation of 70-90 year olds has benefited hugely - and disproportionately - from the freak increases in the stock and property markets since the 1970s, while seeing the amounts they paid for their assets whittled away to near-nothing by inflation. And yet the mere suggestion that they might use some of these largely unearned assets to fund their own care in old age is greeted with predictable feckless-single-mother-benefit-scrounger-asylum-seeker frothing at the mouth. Discuss

No discussion.

State has too many demands on its resources to subsidise the asset rich.

Especially with a shortage of houses.

Forced sale is the answer..

(We had to to fund FIL's bills so why I should subsidise anyone with a house worth £500k - a 3 bed semi in southern England - is beyond me).

Those with no money to pay bills should be chemically knocked out and kept in a poorhouse.

Never mind, the rising cost of food will solve the problem, Either heat the house or eat will be the choice. So starvation or hypothermia..
Last edited by: madf on Wed 22 Feb 12 at 16:42
 What would you do? - spamcan61
>> people who run care homes have to make money or the care home wont be
>> there. Empty rooms dont make money.

Knowing a depressing number of people who've died in care homes in that area, there are always waiting lists, the room won't stand empty. The most recent dear departed's care home charge for two days after the deceased 'moves on'. 30 days is really taking the pee.
 What would you do? - Bromptonaut
>> people who run care homes have to make money or the care home wont be
>> there. Empty rooms dont make money. As a senile old wrinkly you are in effect
>> leasing a room, and I don't know any lease contracts that allow you to break
>> them at a moments notice.
>>
>> Death is not a valid excuse.


Care home voids shouls be reasonably easy to calculate. A few residents get moved by their families and others might need Nursing Home care but most leave feet first. And in a good place there's probably a waiting list.

Charge until the room is cleared. Anything else is taking the wotsit.
 What would you do? - Jetski
I had a similar situation with my mother, my solicitor pointed out to the home owner that a contract "dies" when the person who signed it dies. Money refunded in full.
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