A guy doing some work on a light tripped the RCD on the fusebox and after it was switched back on my PC won't restart (the power is back onto the socket and I have tried another cable that I know is fine).
Is it likely that the PC is damaged and, if so, what is most likely to have gone?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
|
|
Have you checked the wall socket with something you know works ?
|
There may be a switch on the back of the power supply, turn this off and on.
Try a new power lead
Try a new Wall socket,
And yes, its possible to blow up the power supply with sudden power fluctuations. A lot of them are designed to switch automatically between 110 and 230v. They don't handle sudden fluctuations between them well.
Any decent pc shop will fix it for under 50 quid.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 13:34
|
>> There may be a switch on the back of the power supply, turn this off
>> and on.
Thanks Zero. When you say the back of the power supply, I assume that you mean the power supply that is an integral part of the PC, is that right?
There is a red switch, that says 230 on it (I assume to switch between 230 and 110) which is covered in a bit of clear tape.
Is that the thing that I should switch?
I have tried the different wall socket and power cable too.
Thanks again.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 13:41
|
|
No that'll be a voltage switch - don't touch ! There should be a small rocker type switch at the back somewhere.
|
>> No that'll be a voltage switch - don't touch ! There should be a small
>> rocker type switch at the back somewhere.
No, there isn't, at least not externally, just the socket and the voltage switch.
BTW it's a Dell Precision 380 (probably irrelevant).
|
>> Have you checked the wall socket with something you know works ?
Yeah, have put a couple of other things in the same socket and they work fine.
|
If the wall socket and fuse in the lead are ok it's most likely to be the power supply that's gone if you're lucky; possibly the motherboard if you're not. Is the machine yours or your employer's, and is it under warranty?
If it's yours and not under warranty the power supply's easy to swap out - remove the cover, unscrew it the power supply, and disconnect the leads. Reverse the process (in the best Haynes manual tradition) with a new power supply, the leads will only fit one way. If you've another PC handy with a similar power supply just take the power supply out of the working one to test.
|
>> If the wall socket and fuse in the lead are ok
I presume you meant the fuse in the plug?
SS Ash, have you another device that you can try the IEC lead on?
Edit - name correction
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 13:57
|
>> Ash, have you another device that you can try the IEC lead on?
Is the IEC lead the cable that runs from the wall socket to the PC? If so, yes, I tried it with the printer and it worked fine.
I have a vague recollection of this happening with this PC before, after a power outage, and then, either I did something, or it just started working again.
|
>> Is the IEC lead the cable that runs from the wall socket to the PC?
Yes, that's the one.
Sorry, I called you Ash instead of SS for some reason in my earlier post.
|
|
That's OK, just don't call me Shirley...
|
|
I've got an old Dell Optiplex here which hasn't got the usual on/off switch on the power supply, only the voltage selector. As it's a Dell it may be designed for a proprietary power supply - like my Optiplex - so make sure of the dimensions before ordering a replacement.
Last edited by: AshT on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 13:58
|
|
Are there any checks that I can do to see if it is the power supply? I have a multimeter.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 14:25
|
|
Also, is PC World a good place to go to get it fixed?
|
>> Also, is PC World a good place to go to get it fixed?
Hmmm, maybe not, seems they charge 70 quid plus the cost of the parts.
|
Dell power supplies are £40 on eBay.
|
|
Do it yourself SS - it's a quick and simple job provided you've got a replacement that fits as above. I'd suggest checking it is the power supply first though if possible.
|
Yours is not working, thats the only test you need. There are a couple of pins to short out when you have it out of the box to see if it will start, but seriously - its broken.
I would unplug it from the motherboard and leave it for an hours to see if it resets itself, but other than that - change it.
|
I think we're 90%- sure it's the PSU that's gone but double checking with a multimeter should be fairly straightforward if you fancy having a poke around.
The manual for your system is here:-
support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ws380/en/ug/A04/index.htm
The voltages for the main connection between the PSU and motherboard should be as shown here:-
pinouts.ru/Power/atxpower_pinout.shtml
|
|
Blimey, you'll be showing him next where to get the security screw driver bit and where to get the glass 5 amp fuse inside the power supply thats gone.
|
>> Blimey, you'll be showing him next where to get the security screw driver bit and
>> where to get the glass 5 amp fuse inside the power supply thats gone.
>>
LOL, I've had one zapping from the 300V caps in a switch mode PSU, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else.
Disconnecting it and leaving it for a while has worked for me in the past and it's certainly cheaper than PC World.
|
Bit of an update. When I switch the power on at the wall, the green light on the motherboard does come on, so perhaps it isn't the power supply after all.
There is absolutely no response when I push the on switch, no lights come on at the front.
Any ideas guys?
EDIT: I am going to try what Zero said about leaving the power off for a bit, because I'm certain that I had this before and it fixed itself. Do I just turn it off at the wall?
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 14:44
|
AH
It has +5v to the motherboard from the power supply then.
Hold the power switch in for 30 seconds.
Failing that - unplug the power supply from the mains, and from the motherboard and leave for one hour.
|
Agree with Zero, the 5v is the switched supply, there could be a fuse, the manual (link posted by someone earlier) should advise.
|
>> AH
>>
>> It has +5v to the motherboard from the power supply then.
>>
>> Hold the power switch in for 30 seconds.
holding it as i type
|
>> AH
>>
>> It has +5v to the motherboard from the power supply then.
>>
>> Hold the power switch in for 30 seconds.
No joy with that.
>> Failing that - unplug the power supply from the mains, and from the motherboard and
>> leave for one hour.
Right. I've pulled the plug out of the back of the PC. I can see where the bundle of cables goes into the motherboard, but I gave it a tug and it wouldn't budge. No doubt it would if I pulled hard enough, but I am scared of doing some damage. Can I just leave the power cable out?
|
The plug on the motherboard has a clip on he side you push.
Yes leave it unplugged from the wall for an hour.
|
>> The plug on the motherboard has a clip on he side you push.
>>
>> Yes leave it unplugged from the wall for an hour.
OK, just plugged it in again, and still no joy (tried holding the power button for 30 seconds too).
Should I now try to take out the cable to the motherboard and/or should I try taking out the motherboard battery?
|
Hmmm
tricky one this.
you will need to remove the plugs from the motherboard (they have clips you unlatch on the side of the plug)
Short out pins 15 and 16 on the 24-pin motherboard power connector with a small piece of wire or paperclip.
pcsupport.about.com/od/insidethepc/a/atx-pinout-24-pin-12v-psu.htm
If the fan spins up, test the pins for power with your multimeter
If the fan fails to spool up the power supply is dead.
|
>> If the fan spins up, test the pins for power with your multimeter
>>
>> If the fan fails to spool up the power supply is dead.
Thanks very much for that Zero. Just one question before I get cracking on that. If I am getting the green light on the motherboard, is it still possible that the power supply is shot?
|
Yes
The Power supply supplies, +3.3v +5v +12v and a few others. The light is only a +5v indicator
Its also possible something in the PC is bringing it down, so thats why you unplug everything and give it the start signal. Short of buying a power supply tester its the best way to test it.
|
>> If the fan spins up, test the pins for power with your multimeter
>>
>> If the fan fails to spool up the power supply is dead.
Right, I can't find anything to short the pins with, but I put the multimeter between them and got 3.7V
|
Meaningless I am afraid, both those pins are floating.
find something to short the pins with.
|
>> Meaningless I am afraid, both those pins are floating.
>>
>> find something to short the pins with.
Ah, OK, so there's no point testing the pins unless 15-16 are shorted, right?
I go and find something.
|
>> Ah, OK, so there's no point testing the pins unless 15-16 are shorted, right?
correct
>> I go and find something.
good boy
|
I tried shorting it with bit of aluminium foil. I don't know if it successfully shorted it, but certainly the fan didn't start.
I'm going to find something else, but I wondered...if the fan didn't start with the multimeter between 15 and 16, does that indicate anything?
|
Yes it means, as I said further up the thread, that the supply is knackered.
Surely you have a paperclip around?
|
>>Surely you have a paperclip around?
SS said not to call him Shirley.
|
Hmmm, I'm pretty sure that the foil is shorting 15 and 16, but the fan isn't starting.
Does that mean that the power supply is shot?
I'm shorting the pins at the end of cable, rather than the pin on the motherboard, is that right?
|
Yes on the power supply plug, not the motherboard. Have you unplugged ALL the cables from the power supply, to the drives? the two on the motherboard? (may be one or two to the video card).
If shorting the pins does not make the fan start, the power supply is shot and there is no point testing any other pin.
|
>> Yes on the power supply plug, not the motherboard. Have you unplugged ALL the cables
>> from the power supply, to the drives? the two on the motherboard? (may be one
>> or two to the video card).
Err...no...kinda missed that bit
Sorry, I'll go and do that now. Really appreciate all the help, and don't want to try your patience too much, by not following simple instructions :(
|
>> >> If the fan spins up, test the pins for power with your multimeter
>> >>
>> >> If the fan fails to spool up the power supply is dead.
>>
>> Right, I can't find anything to short the pins with, but I put the multimeter
>> between them and got 3.7V
The only other pin that I can detect a voltage on is pin 21 (where I get 5V).
|
|
Because the power supply is not powered up, because you have not shorted out the pins.
|
>>EDIT: I am going to try what Zero said about leaving the power off for a bit, because I'm certain that I had this before and it fixed itself. Do I just turn it off at the wall?>>
My former PSU's manual advised this to reset the PSU.
I've since acquired a Dell Inspiron desktop and it doesn't have a power switch or voltage selector on the PSU, only a green LED to indicate it's turned on (not that I can see the LED in any case)...:-(
|
Not read all of above but it is very common for certain rails to work and not others, which is why sometimes it seems there is power. Seen a lot where the 5v rail works but not the 12v.
Almost certainly the PSU in this case but if it was a cheap one it may have damaged the motherboard too.
|
i blew part of my power supply last weekend by hot fitting a dvd player power line as the computer was turned on
it seems you have the same symptoms so go to maplins and buy a new power supply in one of their white boxes
about £20 worth
just make sure that the main power supply cable (like cheeseblock) that connects to your motherboard is the same as there are two different types depending on age of bits
|
|
Best to take the old one with you...
|
One is 20 pin the other is 24 pin. On most basic systems you can get away with using a 20 pin if there is 24 connectors. Even on the 24 pin ones (nearly all are now 24-pin) there extra 4 pins just seperate making it a 20 pin. There complications due to difference ATX specifications but 95% of time any ATX PSU will work fine.
Don't go to Maplin they are about 300% overpriced, a local computer shop will be a lot cheaper. I can buy a PSU for £6 which would be what Maplin sell for £20. Maplin is just handy if everywhere else is shut otherwise it is like buying a battery at Halfords.
I recomend getting a decent PSU, on a basic machine £25.00 at proper computer shop should get you something ok.
On a higher spec machine you might be looking at nearly £100.
What is the full spec of your PC? I have bought at least 100 PSUs so I am very familier with reliability etc of different brands.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 17:30
|
Dell Precision 380 (it says further up). Dell often use small form factor, dunno about that model.
EDIT Just googled, it looks regular size...
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 17:43
|
Yep looks to be standard ATX, it was only a few of the very higher spec ones and older ones which didn't use standard ATX.
tinyurl.com/475pmt8
Full instructions for the Dell Precision here, looks completly standard.
|
Some Dell connectors are bespoke, might be worth getting a Dell PS, £40 on eBay.
|
>> Dell Precision 380 (it says further up). Dell often use small form factor, dunno about
>> that model.
>>
>> EDIT Just googled, it looks regular size...
>>
The user manual I linked to upthread suggests there are 'normal' and mini tower versions of the 380, I wouldn't like to bet on the PSU being standard mATX if the OP's PC is the latter.
As Cheddar points out there is some possibility this has non standard connectors, not found a picture of the internals of a 380 to check, if a proper Dell PSU is 40 quid then not worth the risk of a generic one IMHO.
|
OK, well I think I have unplugged everything and shorted the pins again and the fan does start up, so I reckon it is bust.
I have posted some pictures here
www.flickr.com/photos/59808168@N05/
Just in case you guys can spot anything I have missed.
Assuming that the power supply is shot, what is the best thing for me to do? Do I buy a new one and replace it myself? (seems straightforward except for the long cable that runs right to the bottom of the case and behind the CPU fan).
Or do I get it done by a shop and, if so, how do I find one that won't rip me off (PC world seems like a rip-off).
Thanks for all the help so far.
|
Thats looks to me to be a non standard power supply, that long cable is the one that supplies the hard disks is not standard.
The question is, if you get another one from ebay, do you feel happy changing it?
|
Either way it needs to be stripped down and cleaned.
Here is my virtual fiver that says your CPU heatsink is clogged.
Where do you live?
|
|
OP - if you want to contact Zero off site - we'll forward your details to him.
|
That looks a lot like the inside of my Optiplex though much dirtier ;-)
You might get away using a standard PS with one of these ...
accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&sku=a1710494
... though I would get a Dell PSU.
|
Zero, I'm in North London. Not sure if that is specific enough.
I don't mind doing the power supply myself, the only thing that looks a little big daunting is getting that bundle of cables out (the one that runs to the bottom of the case).
I'm wondering how much it might cost to get a new power supply.
|
The header looks like it is standard ATX, the hard drive power cable is probably on an extension. Just take the PSU to a computer shop and compare them to make sure.
I have done lots of Dell power supplies and they have never been anything I couldn't get at my suplliers.
I would take it into a computer shop, they will probably only charge £20 labour for that job and they will check that is a standard ATX.
|
Steel Spark
Steel eyed you are not.
Cheddar said further up the thread they are on ebay for about 40 quid.
|
What about something like this?
tinyurl.com/6azxqhn
|
Steely my old mate, can i be very rude?
Dont you ever read anything?
I'll make it nice and simple
GET
A
PROPER
DELL
POWER
SUPPLY
EBAY
40
POUNDS
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 27 Feb 11 at 03:31
|
>> Steely my old mate, can i be very rude?
Yeah, course you can.
I just wanna get it fixed quick :)
I was thinking of buying a reconditioned desktop from Dell Outlet, but god knows where my disks are for a bunch of stuff, so I reckon I will try to fix it.
If I get one off ebay do I search for the exact same model (L375P-00)?
|
yes
edit
If you want it fixed quick, take it to a local pc shop and they will fix it in 48 hours
Cost 60 to 80 quid.,
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 20:53
|
Don't get that Maplin thing, it is cheap crap and I would only fit such a thing if I give them a massive warning about the risks.
They are just £10 PSUs being sold at a massive markup.
If I had the machine in front of me I would know what PSU it needs, I don't so I will go with the advise of buying the correct PSU of Ebay. Dell PSUs are actually very good quality, if you read the ampage on the rails they are high.
They tend to be heavy too. I can't remember who make them but it is a big power supply company.
|
|
You can get quick shipping for a price from these guys www.ebuyer.com/search?q=psu&x=0&y=0
|
Thanks.
I'm going to contact a few places this morning and try to get a fixed price quote. Too many places seem to charge by the hour.
Once had a PC shop repair a PC for my old company, and charged about 3 hours labour to do it. When I asked the guy how he got it working he said "I don't know"
We had the same problem a few months later, and I had a go at fixing it instead. It turned out to be a conflict between a couple of cards. Once I saw the conflict I just took them out and put them back in different order, which stopped the conflict.
I reckon the other guy had just mucked about with it for 3 hours, eventually taking the cards out and putting them back in and, by chance, had fixed the conflict.
So, I'm not keen on per hour charging.
|
Well, it got to 9:40 and nobody had replied to my emails, I had tried calling a local place every 10 minutes since 8:30 and just got voicemail.
Then, a disaster. My brother in law decided that he needed to take the laptop I have been borrowing with him on a trip into London.
Frustrated that I was going to have to wait another day, I desperately stabbed at the power button and...the PC sprung into life!
God only knows how it started working again. I was going to try to test the power supply again, but thought best to let working PCs lie.
Mind you, as I mentioned this did kinda happen before, but it started working probably 30 minutes later. Perhaps I should vacuum the power supply.
I've rarely been happier...thanks so much for all the help guys...a special mention to Zero for his many, many patient replies, and the very helpful advice on testing the power supply.
|
Yes, give it a good cleanout, to be frank it looks quite clogged with dust and fluff in your pics, it could even be a coincidence that it overheated at the same time that your man tripped the electrics.
|
Thanks Cheddar, I'll do that.
It did used to be in a pretty dusty environment previously, still no excuse for letting it get in that state.
I knew I'd get an earful when I posted the pics! :)
|
>> Thanks Cheddar, I'll do that.
>>
and make sure you buy a surge protector.
|
I actually only had one response from the numerous companies I emailed this morning for a quote (oh, plus one where the email kept bouncing back).
I guess business must be so good that they don't need to respond.
|
|
Most of them will be one man bands like myself, we can't always sit in front of the computer responding to emails. So it is not that they are ignoring you.
|
when i cant get in the office for all the piles of money i keep in it i tend to ignore the phone
is this the same scenario raTTle?
|
I simply have no idea where I am up to each day, I book in jobs with a schedule but always allow time to book in emergency jobs.
I aim to reply to all emails within three hours.
|
>> I actually only had one response from the numerous companies I emailed this morning for
>> a quote (oh, plus one where the email kept bouncing back).
>>
>> I guess business must be so good that they don't need to respond.
>>
That tends to be my experience with plumbers, electricians, builders and so on.
|
|
Unless there is a days work to bill, the trades cant be r-sed to turn out.
|
...and putting them back in and, by chance...
IT people and the rest of us have one thing in common.
A lack of understanding of how a computer works.
It just that we know even less than they do.
|
Could have been a loose connection BUT it could be a popping capacitor within a PSU. I had a Dell very similar to yours a few months back. The complaint was it would not turn on but a few days later it would.
Everytime I went round it worked, so I asked him to keep it on for a day and I try the next day. It didn't switch on.
I suspect it was a capacitor fault within the PSU but a new PSU solved the problem. So just wait and see the problem might not have ended yet.
I also fail to see how a PSU repair in a shop should be charged as an hourly rate, it is not like virus removals when you never know if it is a 10 minute or a 10 hour job, a PSU is just that. Even if yours is a very tricky one because of where the cables are routed it is still only a 40 minute job max.
Hopefully the problem is solved but the one thing I have learnt about computers is despite the myth there is always a reason why they behave oddly.
|
I've had a recurrence of this over the past couple of days (luckily I had a laptop to work on, and had backed up a few important files).
It was the same pattern, except at the start there was no power cut, I just turned the PC on Sunday night, and it didn't start up again on Monday morning.
I didn't bother trying to investigate it, I just kept trying to restart it ever so often.
It was left with the power cable plugged in last night (the power cable was live) and it just started up again this morning.
It seems that the PSU is likely on its way out, so I need to either get a new one or just get a new PC.
If I do get a new PC, how tricky will it be for me to put the current C drive in the new PC and fix all of the drivers? I have quite a bit of software on the C drive, but don't have the install disks anymore, so I would rather just reuse it in a new PC (at least for now).
|
" how tricky will it be for me to put the current C drive in the new PC"
Well it won't be easy. If the original OS was a manufacturer special version they may have removed files they do not need.
Often a new motherboard comes with a drivers CD which you still need sometimes to properly enable network and/or sound (of course when you are connected you can usually download these from the manufacturer site.
But your disk is going to end up a bit of a mess. You'd really do better in those circumstances to just start over, as you will benefit from having a clean OS install, but I appreciate the problems that may cause.
Surely if you are happy with the PC then the better option is to fit a new power supply?
|
>> Well it won't be easy. If the original OS was a manufacturer special version they
>> may have removed files they do not need.
>>
>> Often a new motherboard comes with a drivers CD which you still need sometimes to
>> properly enable network and/or sound (of course when you are connected you can usually download
>> these from the manufacturer site.
Thanks smokie. Is it likely that I am going to hit something that I can't overcome, or is it just going to be the grind of finding drivers? You mention the potential for missing files. I think I have a disk image for the XP install, should that be OK?
>> Surely if you are happy with the PC then the better option is to fit
>> a new power supply?
Yeah probably, but looking at Dell Outlet, I can probably get a much more powerful PC for a couple of hundred quid, and I am not sure if there is anything else wrong with the current PC's hardware, or whether it is just a pure PSU issue.
Just thought that a fresh PC might be less hassle in the long run (the current one is about 6 years old, although I have upgraded the memory).
|
I suppose that really you have little to lose. A new Dell machine would come with an operating system, so you can just take that out and put it to one side while you try to fix up the other disk, which is likely to be something of a grind. I'd think it would be easier to do with a Dell machine rather than something unbranded as at least they have a good support site (with forums!)
If your old drive is IDE the new machine will almost definitely not have an IDE connector but converters are available cheap enough (e.g. tinyurl.com/6ecgwzz)
if it were me I would get the disk working as I want it, which may take days/weeks, then clone it onto the new SATA drive. You could always keep it in the machine as a second disk, either with the original data so you can pick up bits you may have missed, or just as an extra place for storing data.
Wait for others to comment too, as I don't have direct experience of doing this so these are just my thoughts. Where's Zero when you need him? LOL
|
>>
>> If your old drive is IDE the new machine will almost definitely not have an
>> IDE connector but converters are available cheap enough (e.g. tinyurl.com/6ecgwzz)
>>
Personally I've had very little success with the two IDE to SATA converters I tried, one refused to work full stop, the other worked until I cycled the power on the machine then wouldn't work again. Getting them to work on boot drives is even more hassle I believe.
|
You'd probably need a Sata to Molex converter as well.
I got a new Dell last year and wanted to use an IDE DVD-ROM from the old system in it as well as keep an IDE DVD-RW drive as a spare (both were virtually brand new).
I bought an IDE to Sata converter, opened up the Dell, only to discover the PSU had no Molex connections for the power required by the drive..:-(
So I got a Sata to Molex converter and the combination works fine, as well as saving unnecessary use of the Dell's original DVD-RW drive (now kept purely for burning), by using it for software installation, music CDs etc.
I also discovered at the same time that there's no real provision in the Dell case to fit another hard drive - in fact the main one is attached vertically on the side of the case rather than the usual horizontal position.
|
Cheers Stu, you've just reminded me that I was going to try one of my IDE-SATA converters on a DVD Drive, see if it works any better.
I've been poking around inside a new Dell Vostro 230 and the HDD is indeed screw directly to the case frame, with just a simple bracket to support it, there is another set of holes and bracket for a second HDD though.
|
>>..there is another set of holes and bracket for a second HDD though.>>
Didn't notice at the time. I think only one of the case sides can be opened (Dell Inspiron 570), so will have to check.
However, I bought an external aluminium hard drive enclosure (USB) afterwards from Dabs for under £14 delivered, so not quite as urgent...:-)
|
>>
>> Didn't notice at the time. I think only one of the case sides can be
>> opened (Dell Inspiron 570), so will have to check.
>>
According to the spec. for the 570 is has two "drive bays", maybe now that's the marketing term for 4 holes in the chassis side rail and a bend in the metal.
Service manual only shows one set of holes though, overall construction is unsurprisingly similar to the Vostro 230.
|
>>According to the spec. for the 570 is has two "drive bays", maybe now that's the marketing term for 4 holes in the chassis side rail and a bend in the metal.>>
It was a birthday present from the family about eight months ago and I'd had no need to delve into the case for any reason until the old system, networked to the Dell, had a PSU failure..:-(
|
>> Thanks smokie. Is it likely that I am going to hit something that I can't
>> overcome, or is it just going to be the grind of finding drivers? You mention
>> the potential for missing files. I think I have a disk image for the XP
>> install, should that be OK?
Your old disk wont boot Windows in the new PC, far too much hardware will have changed. Same applies to your disk image.
Windows builds itself specifically to the PC.
Get your old one powered up, and backup data ready to move to the new PC and OS.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 9 Mar 11 at 18:40
|
Is my PC fried? - R.P.
