Saw something about 2 hrs ago that is still making me angry just thinking about it.
Sitting in four lanes of very slow moving (5 mph) traffic on the Southbound M40 between J3 and J2, due to what transpired to be a two lane closure for an accident just ahead of J2.
I glance in the mirror to see a white 911 cabriolet blasting up the hard shoulder at about 60 mph with hazards blazing. Shortly ahead, the hard shoulder tapers to virtually nothing to navigate a bridge support. The 911 driver suddenly swerves into a non existent gap in lane 1, causing the car behind it to brake sharply (and blare its horn). As soon as the hard shoulder opens again, she swerves back into the hard shoulder, hazards back on, and boots it again.
I noted her reg no and was in two minds whether to report to police. Quite apart from the sheer discourtesy of it - why is her time more important than that of everyone else queueing in an orderly way- , the speed she was travelling at would have easily killed someone using the hard shoulder for legitimate emergency purposes.
I didn't report her, but I was sorely tempted. Has anyone else ever done this? Is it just a "your word against theirs" scenario? Are the police even interested in this stuff? Genuinely interested, as I've never been compelled to do this before.
Cheers
DP
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Probably Miss Moneypenny on her way to meet 007...
:-)
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DP, I experienced something similar a few years ago on M8.
I dialled 999, explained what was happening, explained I understood that they may not have resources to deal but just in case something subsequently happened they would have some more information from me if required.
When I took the Edinburgh slip road, there was the Subaru sitting in a layby with the traffic police. Driver looking very sheepish especially as drivers kept slowing down to either shout obscenities or give the police more info.
So I would say dial 999 and them leave the decisions to the police.
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Speaking as Devil's Advocate, I can imagine circumstances that might make me do that or similar things. Fortunately they haven't arisen yet in my case.
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15 minutes 'till last orders and 10 miles to go for example AC?
:-)
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"I can imagine circumstances that might make me do that or similar things."
Mad dash to meet an old flame for a no strings quickie before the viagra wears off? I'd be annoyed if you didn't use the hard shoulder.
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>> Quite apart from the sheer discourtesy of it - why is her time more important
>> than that of everyone else queueing in an orderly way
I queue jump when I can, although (I would like to believe), never in a dangerous way like you describe.
My time *is* more important, at least to me, and it's me who is doing the queue jumping.
Is there really anybody here whose considers a stranger's time equally important to theirs?
When faced with a bunch of complete strangers and with the anonymity of a tin can, it's every man for himself as far as I am concerned.
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>> When faced with a bunch of complete strangers and with the anonymity of a tin can, it's every man for himself as far as I am concerned.
Which attitude, with the greatest of respect SS, is the main cause of traffic congestion. If only drivers would give and take while concurrently excercising a little common sense many bottle necks would flow much more smoothly.
Experienced drivers know this and some of them even practice it but they are as likely to persuade the masses as Canute was to defeat the tide.
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>> they are as likely to persuade the masses as Canute was to defeat the tide.
Well, quite, so they might as well, IMHO, just try to shorten their journey as best they can, and leave the rest of them to it.
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A fair conclusion, but not one which sits well with me. I prefer to excercise the futilty of courtesy when driving. Odd I know.
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>> I queue jump when I can, although (I would like to believe), never in a
>> dangerous way like you describe.
>>
>> My time *is* more important, at least to me, and it's me who is doing
>> the queue jumping.
>>
>> Is there really anybody here whose considers a stranger's time equally important to theirs?
>>
Yes... I do.
I ride a motorcycle, and will join the line of traffic, if I think I may obstruct or wind up fellow road users.
I try not to put myself in a position where others may take exception to my use of the road, and cause high blood pressure/ road rage.
IMHO you are a self important, ignorant idiot, who will one day upset someone, perhaps causing an accident.
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Oh don't be too hard on him Tony, when I first started driving I drove like a prize twonk for a while. The penny drops in the end if you survive...
:-)
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When I first started to drive a Hillman Imp a couple of Old VW Beetles couldn't speed to much cars where to slow.
Started to drive test cars for the Adibis Oil testing center in a lot faster cars BMW's and Mercedes.I got the points for speeding all on motorways.Pertrol was free and we had to cover the mileage for testing.I class myself as a average driver (could do better):) Try to be curtious now and like you Humph the cents drop in the end.
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In some force areas, the fact that a call is logged in the control room via the 999 system with a vehicles registration number, is easily searched and tool used by patrolling officers.
So for example, Porsche lady is out driving on another occasion, maybe say late at night, officers ask the force control room, 'has the vehicle come to police notice before' and the answer is 'yes, for a dangerous driving allegation on the m/way'. Then that might be all it takes for it to be stopped and checked over..is the insurance correct, has the driver been drinking, etc...
Particularly relvant, if she did the same thing again...because the second time has a lot more chance of it being dealt with.
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>> a call is logged in the control room via the 999 system with a vehicles registration number, is easily
>> searched and tool used by patrolling officers
>> officers ask the force control room, 'has the vehicle come to police notice before' and the answer is 'yes,
Thanks for that WP, I didn't know that.
I frequently witness the "70mph + hazards + hard shoulder" technique being used to bypass stationary motorway traffic, I assumed nothing could be done about it if plod were not physically on hand to deal. I've noticed that a certain demographic is more disposed to such behaviour too, mostly those who drive company cars and live in uninsurable parts of W Yorkshire.
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>> IMHO you are a self important, ignorant idiot, who will one day upset someone, perhaps
>> causing an accident.
And whose fault will that be then?
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>> >> IMHO you are a self important, ignorant idiot, who will one day upset someone,
>> perhaps causing an accident.
>>
>> And whose fault will that be then?
>>
Gosh, that's a hard one to figure out.....
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>> IMHO you are a self important, ignorant idiot, who will one day upset someone, perhaps
>> causing an accident.
>>
Don't live in the south do you? It must be dreadful having to drive in all that congestion when you are so important, don't you get a police motorcycle escort?
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The trouble with your strategy is that it inherently depends on the vast majority of drivers having more patience and manners than you do . Eventually you will meet someone with the same attitude as your self and will be involved in an accident to which for will you will no doubt absolve yourself of any responsibility.
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>>Eventually you will meet someone with the same attitude as your self and will be involved in an accident to which for will you will no doubt absolve yourself of any responsibility. <<
If you are lucky you will meet someone with the same attitude.......... or if you are unlucky you will meet tinyurl.com/unluckyforsomeone (but not for another six years!).
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>> The trouble with your strategy is that it inherently depends on the vast majority of
>> drivers having more patience and manners than you do . Eventually you will meet someone
>> with the same attitude as your self and will be involved in an accident to
>> which for will you will no doubt absolve yourself of any responsibility.
What on earth are you talking about, I meet about two dozen of them every time I drive anywhere.
You seem to be suggesting that I jump queues dangerously, which is a bit of a conclusion to jump to.
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>> I queue jump when I can, although (I would like to believe), never in a
>> dangerous way like you describe.
>>
>> My time *is* more important, at least to me, and it's me who is doing
>> the queue jumping.
I have deliberately driven into the side of people like you SS.
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>> I have deliberately driven into the side of people like you SS.
Tut, tut.
I didn't take you for a courtesy vigilante Zero.
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No - just after vengence. Its very satisfying.
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>> No - just after vengence. Its very satisfying.
Well, taking the law into your own hands either way. Also, not quite a proportionate response I would suggest.
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Tough really.
I am the least of your worries tho remember one poor lad who decided to cut up Kenneth Noye.
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Well, you better make sure that the next time you drive into the side of someone deliberately, they aren't a knife carrying nutter.
I'd suggest that sometimes such nutters also jump queues.
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Oh do calm down dears...
:-)
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In the darkest depths of Stafford shire, if you don;' give way a tractor with 2 metre high wheels will drive over you.. or you may come face to face with a Range Rover plus horses.
Judging by the above thread, it would do some of you good. to drive here and learn patience and courtesy... :-)
Last edited by: madf on Sat 16 Jul 11 at 20:30
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>> In the darkest depths of Stafford shire, if you don;' give way a tractor with
>> 2 metre high wheels will drive over you.. or you may come face to face
>> with a Range Rover plus horses.
>>
>> Judging by the above thread, it would do some of you good. to drive here
>> and learn patience and courtesy... :-)
>>
>>
Which should also be returned by the Horsey fraternity but never is.
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>> I'd suggest that sometimes such nutters also jump queues.
Having been driven into the side of, by someone who I'd upset by, er, being in the lane without a parked lorry in it in good time, I can vouch for that. This guy roared along the empty lane up to the blockage, stopped, then simply merged into the other lane. Unfortunately I was in it at the time. He then leapt out of his car, thumped on my window and tried to open my (locked) door before kicking my car and generally making a scene. I was on the phone to the police while he was doing all this, but the police didn't have any resources close at hand so I was on my own.
He later had the nerve to claim from my insurance - which paid him out without question as his damage was <£1000. I protested but they didn't want to know. And it put my premium up the next year.
I let 'em all go in front now.
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Reading too much into SS's original post. Words have been added in some replier's minds, i'm sure of it.
There's nothing wrong with jumping queues per se, quite the opposite often.
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Nothing wrong with taking a gap if it's there. Forcing one assumes at least competence or cooperation on the part of the party being forced which is not always a good bet.
:-)
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Totally agree humph, but that's how i read the original post too:
>> I queue jump when I can, although (I would like to believe), never in a dangerous way like you describe.
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>> Reading too much into SS's original post. Words have been added in some replier's minds, i'm sure of it.
>>
>> There's nothing wrong with jumping queues per se, quite the opposite often.
>>
This is the line that made me perhaps add words in my mind....
' My time *is* more important, at least to me, and it's me who is doing the queue jumping.'
Everyone's time is equally important as the next man's - exceptions being blue light drivers.
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Nobody's time seems important when you're lying, cold and bloodied, on an a stainless steel table having your clothes cut off and your watch and ring bagged up by a complete stranger.
Just remember that. I don't ever want to see it again......it's not pretty !
With experience comes patience and tolerance.
Ted
Last edited by: Ted on Sat 16 Jul 11 at 22:40
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>> Nobody's time seems important when you're lying, cold and bloodied, on an a stainless steel
>> table having your clothes cut off and your watch and ring bagged up by a
>> complete stranger.
Cripes! You'd think I'd suggested jumping red lights, or taking a shortcut by driving the wrong way down the motorway, rather than jumping a queue now and again.
It seems to me that there is a lot of fear induced courtesy out there, which is not real courtesy at all. Not many people moaning about "doing the right thing" but many telling terrible tales of deranged knife-men and the like, if you dare to abuse queuing etiquette
I suppose when many folks have spent 10 minutes queuing at the supermarket, only to hear that the next door till is opening, they all hold back from rushing over, in case there is a knife wielding gangster in front of them.
It'll happen to somebody, somewhere, of course, but so will getting struck by lightning.
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>> This is the line that made me perhaps add words in my mind....
>> ' My time *is* more important, at least to me, and it's me who is
>> doing the queue jumping.'
>>
>> Everyone's time is equally important as the next man's - exceptions being blue light drivers.
Oh do come off it. Do you really consider a complete stranger's time as important as your own?
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>> >> Everyone's time is equally important as the next man's - exceptions being blue light
>> drivers.
>>
>> Oh do come off it. Do you really consider a complete stranger's time as important
>> as your own?
>>
Yes, as it happens I do.
Its not just this thread that has formed my opinion of you BTW, previous postings of yours made me wonder just how little you consider your actions whilst driving.
This one for instance www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=619&m=9312
If you knew the road well, you shouldn't have started an overtake that close to the 30 limit.
There are more posts from which I form my opinion, which a simple search will show up.
And before anyone comments, I am not, nor do I pretend to be a perfect driver/rider, I have scars to prove that fact.
But, I do feel that with a little more consideration between road users, we would ALL get to where we want to be, quicker, and in one piece.
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>> Its not just this thread that has formed my opinion of you BTW, previous postings
>> of yours made me wonder just how little you consider your actions whilst driving.
>>
>> This one for instance www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=619&m=9312
>> If you knew the road well, you shouldn't have started an overtake that close to
>> the 30 limit.
>> There are more posts from which I form my opinion, which a simple search will
>> show up.
I'm honoured by the fact that you show enough interest in my posts to remember them.
Of course, making the odd mistake is hardly grounds for then never jumping a queue, or in some other way putting my needs before those of other road users.
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>> Oh do come off it. Do you really consider a complete stranger's time as important as your own?
You may not consider it so SS, but circumstances may have made it so. You just don't know how urgent things are for other people when traffic congestion dictates, more or less, everyone's speed.
I have followed this thread with some interest. I imagine what you and others mean by queue-jumping is switching lanes to get further forward, a perfectly respectable and legitimate manoeuvre. Provided, that is, it is performed adeptly, without annoying anyone or causing them to brake, swerve etc. The same applies to any sort of lane-change, overtake or merging effort.
There is no indication you aren't aware of these things, but your provocative language has amused me especially when it has made others hot under the collar. No indication either that you don't understand Humph's quite important observation that courtesy and cooperation by all drivers eases and accelerates traffic flow (although one can't help wishing that more car users were quicker on the uptake sometimes...).
Lagos 'go-slows' often seemed to have no identifiable cause when one reached the pinch point, other than the tendency of many drivers to take short cuts along pavements, over rooftops, through back yards and so on until the actual pinch point was jammed in an unholy manner with much hooting and shouting.
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>> You may not consider it so SS, but circumstances may have made it so. You
>> just don't know how urgent things are for other people when traffic congestion dictates, more
>> or less, everyone's speed.
No, of course I don't. But I'm not going to give everybody else's time equal priority to mine, unless I know of some fact that makes me consider it so.
>> I have followed this thread with some interest. I imagine what you and others mean
>> by queue-jumping is switching lanes to get further forward, a perfectly respectable and legitimate manoeuvre.
>> Provided, that is, it is performed adeptly, without annoying anyone or causing them to brake,
>> swerve etc. The same applies to any sort of lane-change, overtake or merging effort.
Yes, that kind of thing. No dangerous moves, no cutting people up.
The point been not to suggest that I drive aggressively, just that I value my time more than that of strangers, and will capitalise where I can.
>> There is no indication you aren't aware of these things, but your provocative language has
>> amused me especially when it has made others hot under the collar.
Yes, the response has amused me too. I don't quite agree that my language has been particularly provocative.
I've just said that I consider my time more important than strangers, which I do (and I imagine that they consider their time more important than mine).
That has been met with me being called an idiot, suggestions that I might get knifed (and perhaps a suggestion that I might even deserve it), and talk of deliberately driving into drivers that transgress queuing courtesy, all of which has been met with thumbs up all round.
We Brits really are a bit obsessed with our queuing, eh?
>> No indication either
>> that you don't understand Humph's quite important observation that courtesy and cooperation by all drivers
>> eases and accelerates traffic flow (although one can't help wishing that more car users were
>> quicker on the uptake sometimes...).
No, I understand completely. The day that everybody else in the world becomes selfless, and I'm the only one affecting traffic flow, I'll finally yield.
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Sounds like SS is of the "Me, now!" generation.
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In some parts it is normal to drive on the hard shoulder now when it is congested and you are directed to do so. No one does hardly. Which is more idiotic. Sitting in traffic queueing and not making use of all road space or making use of all the available road space? She should have done it more subtly. That was her mistake :-)
If it is an old air cooled 911 it could have been overheating so reason enough to use the hard shoulder and get a move on ;-)
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I like the old aircooled 911.Did see a chap a few weeks ago in one immaculate condition.
I don't think they suffered from overheating. (could be wrong.)
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>> In some parts it is normal to drive on the hard shoulder now when it is congested and you are directed to do so
>> No one does hardly. Which is more idiotic. Sitting in traffic queueing and not making use of all road space
>> or making use of all the available road space? She should have done it more subtly.
Only on specific roads with lots and lots of signs permitting HS running, and with extra CCTV cameras and safety refuges, and then only in heavy traffic conditions. I find it hard to believe that someone could think it was OK to drive on the HS without being given explicit direction to do so - but not impossible to believe. (smiley face noted TB.)
I fully agree that hardly anyone uses the HS when they could be - this week I've used both the M6 at Walsall and the M42 near Brum airport, both at times when HS running was enabled, and both times I've been the only vehicle for half a mile on the extra lane. Mind you, I regularly use the new 4-lane stretch of the M1 past Trowell services - 80% of the traffic seems unaware that lane 1 exists there as well.
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Steelspark, hopefully your driving won't cause you to be assaulted by another enraged driver, causing you to engage the services of plod, over something that arguably you started.... although I'm sure come the day that happens you'll be the innocent party-in your eyes.
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My comment about the mortuary weren't particularly aimed at you, Steely. I have no real idea how you conduct yourself on the road.
Rather they were aimed at the Porsche owner and similar arrogant types.
Queue jumping down the hard shoulder is, to my mind, dangerous driving. It only takes a car in the queue to overheat or start a misfire and the driver turns straight into the path of the offender, not expecting there to be a car there.
The offender then hits the nearside of our innocent victim at 40mph or whatever, killing or maiming the passengers.
I think others time is important. Actually, I think it's a lot more important than mine...I don't have deadlines, contracts to sign, bonuses to earn. I just need to get to my d4estination...10mins/30mins...it don't not make no difference !
If I had a deadline in the past, I always left earlier than needed and spent my ' waiting ' time at the customer's, instead of at home.
Ted
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"mean by queue-jumping is switching lanes to get further forward, a perfectly respectable and legitimate manoeuvre."
Which adds to the wave effect producing longer queues. And what if we all decided to lane change all over the place more or less at the same time. Not good advice.
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>> And what if we all decided to lane change all over the place more or less at the same time. Not good advice.
What if, what if... we often do actually. Marylebone/Euston Rd Tottenham Ct Rd underpass night before last, nose to tail crawl, quite a few doing that thing they do in those conditions, changing into the other lane thinking it's going faster.
I kept seeing people changing from the left to the outer lane up ahead. Since we were in the outer lane I resented it and grumbled to herself: why do those (expletives) keep letting the (expletives) in? However I ended up letting one in myself and we both had a snigger about it. You get resigned in the end.
>> adds to the wave effect producing longer queues.
That looks to me like pure balderdash. Queues are made longer by more vehicles joining them, not by some mystic 'wave effect' whatever that may be.
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The wave effect is not mystic, Its a proven traffic dynamic.
You know what it is we dont need to explain it to you.
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Remember this video from a post (maybe elsewhere) AC?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suugn-p5C1M&feature=player_embedded#at=22
The mystic waves are out there... :-)
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Just as I thought. It doesn't make the queues longer, it just causes that tiresome concertina-like shunting we all know so well. One idiot mimser can cause a 'wave', but usually they are caused by normal hazards, junctions, traffic lights etc.
They are exacerbated of course by people being slow off the mark, not keeping their eye on the ball, getting confused or scared, etc.
Makes the queues longer indeed!
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>> "mean by queue-jumping is switching lanes to get further forward, a perfectly respectable and legitimate
>> manoeuvre."
>>
>> Which adds to the wave effect producing longer queues. And what if we all decided
>> to lane change all over the place more or less at the same time. Not
>> good advice.
>>
What I and others have also said.
'But, I do feel that with a little more consideration between road users, we would ALL get to where we want to be, quicker, and in one piece.'
'Lagos 'go-slows' often seemed to have no identifiable cause when one reached the pinch point, other than the tendency of many drivers to take short cuts along pavements, over rooftops, through back yards and so on until the actual pinch point was jammed in an unholy manner with much hooting and shouting.'
>> Oh do come off it. Do you really consider a complete stranger's time as important as your own?
As I already said yes I do, and in fact Ted has hit it on the nail.
'I think others time is important. Actually, I think it's a lot more important than mine...I don't have deadlines, contracts to sign, bonuses to earn. I just need to get to my destination...10mins/30mins...it don't not make no difference !
If I had a deadline in the past, I always left earlier than needed and spent my ' waiting ' time at the customer's, instead of at home.
Ted '
A little bit of thought, and planning BEFORE you set off, that's all that's needed.
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You lot still at it on this then? Must be raining everywhere. Look, it's Monday tomorrow, try to lighten up chaps, not much of the weekend left is there?
:-)
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>> >> Oh do come off it. Do you really consider a complete stranger's time as
>> important as your own?
>>
>> As I already said yes I do, and in fact Ted has hit it on
>> the nail.
>>
>> A little bit of thought, and planning BEFORE you set off, that's all that's needed.
Well good for you, I suppose you won't mind if I go ahead of you then.
I don't really get your point with the planning ahead, because I'm not talking about times when I'm actually in a hurry or have a deadline, I'm just talking generally that my time is more important to me than that of others.
I really don't buy all of this selfless talk. I reckon it is just social constraints (including fear of nutters).
If you had a button that would teleport you to the front of the queue and push everyone else back one space, are you telling me that you wouldn't use it?
If you would use it, then it's not courtesy holding you back.
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Actually I don't think time has anything to do with my own impatience as a rule. I just think people ought to drive cars properly, which means among other things with decent despatch. I can't bear for example the widespread habit of taking several seconds to get moving when the lights change, or when the car in front moves away. In post-Livingstone London with its jimmied traffic lights this often means only two vehicles get across on the green (just as well really that I don't mind running amber or even red lights and am good at it).
Like all mimsing this more-than-leisurely behaviour is aesthetically offensive for one thing, and for another a sign of widespread deep, bovine idiocy - like those people in the checkout queue who don't even start getting their money out of a purse in a handbag in a shopping bag until they know the amount, or people who won't leave the money machine until they have read their record slip and slowly folded and put away the lucre and record slip, then purse into handbag and so on. Twozzers.
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There is a huge difference between mimsing (which I detest as much as I do pushiness) and driving at a speed suitable for the overall road conditions.
SS seems to admit to being pushy;
'I don't really get your point with the planning ahead, because I'm not talking about times when I'm actually in a hurry or have a deadline, I'm just talking generally that my time is more important to me than that of others.'
I have of course at times had to make haste, but I prefer to plan my journey - that way I am relaxed when I arrive, and can 'chill' before my meeting or whatever.
'I really don't buy all of this selfless talk. I reckon it is just social constraints'
That line speaks volumes to me.
What is it about some people, that they cannot, or will not consider others?
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Don't forget that SS is a relatively new driver with (I think) less than two years of driving under his wheels. Sounds like he is getting a bit over confident and it could end in tears.
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>> Don't forget that SS is a relatively new driver with (I think) less than two
>> years of driving under his wheels. Sounds like he is getting a bit over confident
>> and it could end in tears.
Well I don't know about you ON, but I was a slightly better driver than James Hunt when I first passed my test. My powers have declined a bit since then, though I seem to hit fewer things. So SS wouldn't be unusual ;-)
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>> Don't forget that SS is a relatively new driver with (I think) less than two
>> years of driving under his wheels. Sounds like he is getting a bit over confident
>> and it could end in tears.
I don't think that you've really read what I have written ON.
I'm not speeding down the outside and swerving in front of others. No aggressive, or even confident driving involved.
The issue is whether you'd queue jump if you could do so safely.
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>>The issue is whether you'd queue jump if you could do so safely.<<
No SS, the issue is whether you should be queue jumping at all, or practising courteous and considerate driving.
Pat
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>> >>The issue is whether you'd queue jump if you could do so safely.<<
>>
>> No SS, the issue is whether you should be queue jumping at all, or practising
>> courteous and considerate driving.
Yes, you're right, that's what I meant.
In my cause I would, as I've probably made clear. The point being that I wouldn't do it in anything close to a dangerous manner.
I may be too cynical but I think that most people, if given the magic button that teleports them to the front of the queue, would use it.
I wouldn't want to call anybody a liar, but I find it hard to believe that most people wouldn't use it.
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>> I don't think that you've really read what I have written ON.
>> I'm not speeding down the outside and swerving in front of others. No aggressive, or
>> even confident driving involved.
From the post of yours I highlighted earlier (ok, over 12 months ago, but the way it reads seems to apply to your current driving)
'There were a couple of cars in front of me that were perhaps doing 40, the second car was likely being held up by the first. Anyway, I go to a long straight and decided to overtake. There was plenty of visibility and no oncoming traffic so I pulled out, and started to overtake them. At this point I realised that we were coming into one of the 30 zones, but I still had space to overtake and safely get back into the left and slow to 30, which I did.
Now, at the time I was happy that I had made it back under 30 before passing the 30 sign and definitely before passing the camera that is about 10 metres further on. I had to brake quiet late, but I believe safely. However, after a while my new driver paranoia started to kick in, my mind started playing tricks, and I started to question whether I had in fact done so, or whether I had actually gone through at 60.'
In your words, you realised at the start of an overtake you were close to a 30 limit but still accelerated to the legal limit (60) requiring 'quiet' (quite) late braking upon entering the 30 - sounds to me late braking equalled heavy - maybe causing the previous leading car to brake as well?
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>> From the post of yours I highlighted earlier (ok, over 12 months ago, but the
>> way it reads seems to apply to your current driving)
I think you've misunderstood my post.
What actually happened is that I safely overtook two cars doing 40mph in a 60 zone. Safely got back into the lane, well clear of the other cars, and then safely reduced speed to 30, before entering the 30 zone.
Not only was I well clear of the other cars but, if you'd thought it through, you'd have realised that they would already have slowed to 30 before entering the 30 zone too, I wouldn't be causing them to brake.
No problem, no danger, no ticket, just a post about new driver paranoia, and how you can be confident of the facts of the time and then start to question yourself later.
You jump to far too many conclusions, IMHO.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Sun 17 Jul 11 at 17:33
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No, I don't think I have misunderstood at all.
2 cars were doing 40 in a 60 zone.
you overtook, so you must have been doing over 40.
then you, not anyone else said, that you had to brake late.
Later on that day, you thought about it, and couldn't be sure that you had slowed to 30, before the limit.
Without jumping to conclusions, but reading what you wrote, you did an overtake not being 100% sure you had the room to do it.
Jumping to a conclusion, from the info you have given us, you like to 'push on' at every opportunity you get.
One day, that attitude will bite you, as it has me, in a past life.
I was lucky, I survived, friends of mine didn't.
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I should clarify; I haven't killed anyone, but friends of mine with a similar 'push on' attitude did get it wrong, and didn't survive.
On bikes rather than cars.
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What on earth are you talking about?
I overtook some cars by driving faster than 40mph in a 60 zone. What on earth is wrong with that?
I did so safely, and at the time was happy that I had done so safely.
Later on, I started to question my memory of whether I slowed down in time. So what? Clearly my memory was correct, or I'd have got a ticket from that camera.
Just admit that you incorrectly read my original post as something along the lines of, "I drive like a maniac, cutting people up, cos I'm a brilliant driver and the road belongs to me", and are now desperately trying to convince yourself that your jumping to conclusions was correct.
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>> Just admit that you incorrectly read my original post as something along the lines of,
>> "I drive like a maniac, cutting people up, cos I'm a brilliant driver and the
>> road belongs to me", and are now desperately trying to convince yourself that your jumping to conclusions was correct.
>>
Any conclusions I have reached are from your postings.
You have, for example, in your own words stated that you will get to the head of a queue when ever possible, with little or no regard to other road users.
'don't really get your point with the planning ahead, because I'm not talking about times when I'm actually in a hurry or have a deadline, I'm just talking generally that my time is more important to me than that of others.'
I have in the past acted like that.
Although I use a machine that is more than capable of doing that (750cc motorcycle) I don't.
Why?
1/ I like living,
2/ I don't place my importance above other peoples.
3/ I'd rather plan my journey before setting off, and reach my destination, cool, calm, and relaxed - hopefully without getting in other peoples way, either those wishing to go faster, or slower than myself.
This will be my last comment on your driving, in this thread, but please start thinking about other people, more than what you currently do.
Last edited by: swiss tony on Sun 17 Jul 11 at 19:00
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>> Any conclusions I have reached are from your postings.
>> You have, for example, in your own words stated that you will get to the
>> head of a queue when ever possible, with little or no regard to other road
>> users.
A good example of you jumping to your own conclusions and reading things that aren't there.
I would certainly try to get to the head of a queue, selfishly, but not with "little or no regard to other road users", and those are most definitely your words rather than mine.
If your words (not mine) are meant to suggest that I will just barge my way in, regardless of risk to myself or others, then you are wrong.
If your words are meant to suggest that I consider my time more important than mine, then yes, but then why didn't you use my words rather than yours?
Did you use your words, because they sound like dangerous/aggressive driving? (which seems to be the conclusion that you first jumped to, and are now trying to justify)
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>> Did you use your words, because they sound like dangerous/aggressive driving? (which seems to be the conclusion that you first jumped to, and are now trying to justify)
>>
I did say I wouldn't reply again.... but.....
>> When faced with a bunch of complete strangers and with the anonymity of a tin can, it's every man for himself as far as I am concerned.
Those words, yours not mine, sound aggressive when taken with other posts of yours in this thread.
You can try and defend what IMHO is coming over as needlessly pushy driving, but hopefully you will learn, like I, and many others have learnt, that well planned trips, are much better in so many ways (fuel consumption, tyre wear, relaxation, to name but a few) than having to be the one in front all the time.
Life is too short, and the roads are too full, to stress over the fact that someone is in your way, not going the speed you want to.
Now, can we please move on?
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>> I did say I wouldn't reply again.... but.....
You just have to try to get that last word in don't you? :)
>> >> When faced with a bunch of complete strangers and with the anonymity of a
>> tin can, it's every man for himself as far as I am concerned.
>>
>> Those words, yours not mine, sound aggressive when taken with other posts of yours in
>> this thread.
Again, you're simply reading too much into it.
In that same post I made it very clear that I was not suggesting aggressive/dangerous driving, merely that I consider my time more important than that of others.
This should have been blatantly clear to you, but you either didn't read it properly, or added in all other kinds meanings yourself.
>> You can try and defend what IMHO is coming over as needlessly pushy drivings
Even though I have said, again and again, that I don't mean aggressive driving, just taking a gap in a queue that I haven't waited for.
I don't know if you are just being awkward or stupid.
>> but
>> hopefully you will learn, like I, and many others have learnt, that well planned trips,
>> are much better in so many ways (fuel consumption, tyre wear, relaxation, to name but
>> a few) than having to be the one in front all the time.
Yeah, yeah, try a bit of patronising :)
I never said I didn't plan my trips, or stressed about what progress making.
Merely that I didn't feel constrained to not make progress because of some kind of misplaced civility.
>> Now, can we please move on?
Maybe, if you would stop trying to flog this dead horse.
I can't have been any clearer about the fact that I simply mean selfish driving, not pushy/aggressive driving.
If you don't understand the difference between the two, then let me use a quote from your very first, well balanced, response to me:
"you are a self important, ignorant idiot"
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>> "you are a self important, ignorant idiot"
>>
He missed out "arrogant".
|
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Do you consider me arrogant, ON?
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>>I queue jump when I can, although (I would like to believe), never in a dangerous way like >>you describe.
>>My time *is* more important, at least to me, and it's me who is doing the queue jumping.
>>Is there really anybody here whose considers a stranger's time equally important to theirs?
>>Do you consider me arrogant ON?>>
Yes.
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>> >>Do you consider me arrogant ON?>>
>>
>> Yes.
Well, you're entitled to your own opinion.
I wonder though. There are other on this thread, who have also said that they would queue jump when then could.
They might not have been as frank as to say that they consider their time more important than others, but by queue jumping they are, in fact, putting their progress ahead of others who are politely queuing.
Do you consider those other posters arrogant too? Do you consider them "self important, ignorant idiots", also?
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Mon 18 Jul 11 at 15:05
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>> Do you consider those other posters arrogant too? Do you consider them "self important, ignorant
>> idiots", also?
>>
No, just arrogant.
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>> >> Do you consider those other posters arrogant too? Do you consider them "self important,
>> ignorant
>> >> idiots", also?
>> >>
>>
>> No, just arrogant.
Ah OK then. Thought you might just be singling me out :)
Maybe it is a bit arrogant, but selfishness is a basic human trait I believe. Those who don't admit to being selfish are, IMHO, perhaps not being totally honest with others, or with themselves.
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So SteelSpark, do you jump the queue at the supermarket? Do you jump the queue at the cashpoint/bank/post office?
In fact, do you jump a queue in any circumstances where you are NOT sitting protected in a car?
If the answer is "no" to any of these questions, then my supplementary question is "Why not?". (Because by your own self-admitted code of behavior you should - unless you are frightened of the possible consequences, or course)
Last edited by: Londoner on Mon 18 Jul 11 at 15:41
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>> So SteelSpark, do you jump the queue at the supermarket? Do you jump the queue
>> at the cashpoint/bank/post office?
>>
>> In fact, do you jump a queue in any circumstances where you are NOT sitting
>> protected in a car?
>>
>> If the answer is "no" to any of these questions, then my supplementary question is
>> "Why not?". (Because by your own self-admitted code of behavior you should - unless you
>> are frightened of the possible consequences, or course)
It's a good point Londoner, and I did touch on it somewhere else I think.
There is no doubt that the social constraints are different in different situations, and I'd suggest that a queue of cars is not quite the same as a queue at the till.
Do I not push in front of old ladies at the supermarket because I am scared? No, probably not.
Do I push in front of burly rugby players at the till? No. But then I don't push in front of the old ladies either (or anybody else for that matter), so maybe there is something more at play, than fear.
It's my opinion that walking up to a queue of people at a till, and barging in somewhere is, even if you don't make contact, incredibly aggressive and confrontational. You are effectively saying, "I'm going to walk in front of you and what are you going to do about it?"
On the other hand, driving down an empty lane, and moving into a gap towards the head of the queue isn't.
It might annoy somebody, who thought it was rude, but that is quite far from being confrontational.
The closest shop parallel (which I also mentioned earlier) is probably being at the back of a queue, seeing the till next door is opening and making a break for that.
I would certainly do that, have done it many times, regardless of whether they are old ladies or burly rugby players, and have likewise had it done to me too.
It is a bit annoying when it is you who loses out, but I don't feel confronted or that it is aggressive, just maybe a bit selfish.
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>> Do I not push in front of old ladies at the supermarket because I am
>> scared? No, probably not.
>>
You should be scared, beware the little old lady armed with a walking stick! :-)
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>>On the other hand, driving down an empty lane, and moving into a gap towards the head of the queue isn't.
Is that all we're talking about? That's not even pushing in unless you intimidate your way back in to the flow - even then, you arguably shouldn't have to - the gap-closers are actually indulging in a nasty form of aggression themselves.
No reason not to use the right hand lane right up to a lane closure, and merge in turn - if some are too dim to work out how to do this, they shouldn't be on the road.
Similarly, if it's an obstruction on the left and queueing traffic has booked early in the right lanes, why not use the empty one in front of you until you need to overtake the obstacle? I'd like to see the charge for that one.
No comparison at all to supermarket queues - a ludicrous analogy.
I suspect this is one of those discussions where everybody has a different idea as to what the argument is about.
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>> No reason not to use the right hand lane right up to a lane closure,
>> and merge in turn - if some are too dim to work out how to
>> do this, they shouldn't be on the road
I think you might be describing the majority on this thread. You'll never win this emotional lot over by logic though. Shame.
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My opinion of these sort of lane closures is that the lane will not move efficiently until it is completely single lane and no one is merging.
So if outside lane is empty and left hand lane is stationery I think it is wrong to use the empty lane because the traffic in the left hand lane will start to speed up and move efficiently past the hazard. That is until someone comes flying down the outside lane and cuts in and causes the traffic to brake.
If traffic in left hand lane is moving at a steady pace, say 30-40 with plenty of space between cars then this is where merging should happen and allow the flow of traffic to continue.
However I also believe that the traffic authorities in this country should get together and agree what procedure they want used at all these types of lane closures and make it a uniform approach. So if they want two lines of traffic right down to the merge point then tell us that. If they want us to use the 800 yard markers to start merging well that doesn't work as SS proves - he will go right down to the bitter end and then cut across.
On a separate note SS, I feel your generalisation of "we are all selfish" is maybe not that accurate, I would certainly say my style of driving is unselfish. I will sit in the queue because my time is not more important than the person in front of me. I will flash people to come out of sideroads, or to come out in front of me. I suspect you feel cocooned in your steel safety cage and you are displaying different traits depending on whether you are in a car or not.
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>> On a separate note SS, I feel your generalisation of "we are all selfish" is
>> maybe not that accurate, I would certainly say my style of driving is unselfish. I
>> will sit in the queue because my time is not more important than the person
>> in front of me. I will flash people to come out of sideroads, or to
>> come out in front of me. I suspect you feel cocooned in your steel safety
>> cage and you are displaying different traits depending on whether you are in a car
>> or not.
Well, as mentioned above, these things are certainly situational.
I'm not sure it's an issue of safety, rather just that actions taken when driving are not seen as confrontational.
After all, the car doesn't really keep you safe, if you get confrontational, you can always be chased.
For example, if I drove up alongside someone and told them to f-off and called their wife a fat cow, I'd expect to often be chased and confronted, because I have done something confrontational - so it's not that the car makes me feel safe, and allow me to act in a confrontational manner.
I bet that if I pushed in front of you in a till queue, you would feel far more confronted and insulted, than if I nipped into a space in a queue in front of you.
Oh, and I do flash people out of sideroads, or flash them through narrow meeting points in the road etc.
It is not about me barging my way through the neighbourhood in my tin can at every opportunity.
I just don't feel guilty about nipping to the front of a long queue if I can.
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>That is until someone comes flying down the outside lane and cuts in and causes the traffic to brake.
I see this almost every morning on my daily commute.
There's always one fool who just has to make one more overtake instead of merging safely when they have the chance.
I looked up the sat image and it captured the situation perfectly: tinyurl.com/6jy54yl
That image was taken when traffic was very light.
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>> Do you jump the queue at the cashpoint?
I was at a cash point yesterday when a little old lady said I could go in front of her if I helped check her balance. It wasn't very good because when I pushed her, she fell over.
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>> SS seems to admit to being pushy;
>> 'I don't really get your point with the planning ahead, because I'm not talking about
>> times when I'm actually in a hurry or have a deadline, I'm just talking generally
>> that my time is more important to me than that of others.'
Not pushy, just selfish. Two very different things.
You can be selfish, and take opportunities to get ahead, without being particularly pushy.
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SS has been harshly dealt with. I favour patience and courtesy mainly to keep the blood pressure down, but I like to knock on and I don't think he said much other than he likes to get ahead when he can.
I do indulge in lane switching if there is any danger of time becoming pressing, though I try to do it intelligently - experience suggests that the left lanes go quicker, except at junctions where it can pay to move right a lane or two.
Like AC, I start to twitch when others throw away my opportunities at roundabouts and traffic lights.
The whole cooperation business is an example of the prisoners' dilemma. If you do what would benefit everybody, if only we all did it, you end up worse off because the majority aren't aware enough to cooperate. So you might as well make the best of it without wilfully doing down any specific individual or creating any confrontation.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 17 Jul 11 at 16:44
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>> SS has been harshly dealt with.
Sorry Manatee, I don't agree.
What SS is saying is that his more time is more precious than other peoples in his eyes, and this gives him the right to push in.
If he is consistent in this principle, then presumably he applies it to other circumstances beyond motoring - the queue at the supermarket checkout for example.
How would you feel if you were patiently queueing to pay at the checkout, and someone just came and pushed in ahead of you? What sort of person would you consider them to be?
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Did he say he pushed in? Even so there's pushing in, and pushing in. No good saying "after you" at Marble Arch, you have to be assertive sometimes. Erring on the rude side is hardly the crime of then century, and as has been said unless he tempers it, he will be rammed or biffed eventually, so perhaps he more considerate than he's admitted to.
Why am I being so understanding? String him up!
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>> How would you feel if you were patiently queueing to pay at the checkout, and
>> someone just came and pushed in ahead of you? What sort of person would you
>> consider them to be?
>>
I would wonder how long it will be before someone presents him with a broken nose. :-)
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>> I would wonder how long it will be before someone presents him with a broken
>> nose. :-)
I suppose I'll deserve it will I? Give that thug a thumbs up, and the rude guy a thumbs down.
Maybe he'll smack you next for looking at his wife, or brushing past him in the aisle. Thumbs up all around.
Anyway, I wouldn't push in-front of somebody at a till, that's too physically aggressive, compared to driving down a parallel lane and moving into a gap in a car.
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>> Anyway, I wouldn't push in-front of somebody at a till, that's too physically aggressive, compared to driving down a parallel lane and moving into a gap in a car.
>>
(Shakes head, walks away, and hopes to God I don't meet SS on the road......)
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>> (Shakes head, walks away, and hopes to God I don't meet SS on the road......)
If you see those two things as the same, I hope to God I don't meet you on the road too. You must be in a constant state of rage.
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"I suppose I'll deserve it will I? "
Pity we don't have the ability to conduct a poll on this site ;-0
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>> "I suppose I'll deserve it will I? "
>>
>> Pity we don't have the ability to conduct a poll on this site ;-0
Yeah, thank goodness for the short-fused thugs, keeping the rest of us in line, eh?
|
|
What car SS, do you drive?
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>> Pity we don't have the ability to conduct a poll on this site ;-0
>>
I don't think we can say he's an angel, but there isn't enough evidence to convict.
I doubt that even Michael Mansfield could hold ON to a "not proven" though!
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>> I do indulge in lane switching if there is any danger of time becoming pressing, though I try to do it intelligently
I gave that up a long time ago. No matter what stunts you pull in heavy traffic, you'll stay with the same group of vehicles from the start up to the other end of the delay. Might as well save yourself the stress.
The only reliable way to shorten journey times is to maintain a much higher average speed on the clear stretches, and even that doesn't shorten the times by very much.
Putting it the other way around, you don't lose a lot of time by driving more slowly and not cutting in and out of traffic like a div.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Sun 17 Jul 11 at 17:46
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Flippin Ada ! This beginning to sound like Mrs H when she's determined to have the last word even when she knows she's wrong !
Nothing decent on the telly?
Let's call it a draw on points shall we?
Sheesh...
:-)
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Canal? Dog? Walk? "Pub" "socialising"?
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You might be right Dave, but I don't get wound up, and little victories can make a tedious journey interesting.
And I don't cut in and out...I'm entitled to a fair trial like SS!
Anybody watching the golf?
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 17 Jul 11 at 17:57
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It's on, I find the green background soothing. Pity the people wandering around hitting balls with sticks spoil the view. :-)
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>> Anybody watching the golf?
Yeah, what a relaxed round by Clarke.
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Come to think of it, my dad used to walk the dogs of an evening for a couple of hours two or three times a week...light bulb begins to glimmer....
:-)
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>> Come to think of it, my dad used to walk the dogs of an evening
>> for a couple of hours two or three times a week...light bulb begins to glimmer....
Ah! the Scottish education system, so well known for its limitations...
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Just don't do what a neighbour did - told his missus he was taking the dog or a walk..
... only he forgot to take the dog!
His quick pint of Belhaven at the local wasn't worth the mouthful he got back home!!
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>> I can't bear for example the widespread habit of taking several seconds
>> to get moving.......when the car in front moves away.
Sometimes the car in front stalls. Whammo.
I'm with you on the checkout queue mimsers, though. Usually paying in denominations of under 50p also.
|
|
In the self service checkouts? But how else to get rid of all the change? ;)
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>> In the self service checkouts? But how else to get rid of all the change?
>> ;)
Yeah, got to get rid of it somewhere.
There is a "change conversion" machine in a supermarket near me. I can't remember what the commission is, but it isn't cheap.
Far better to just gradually use it in the shops.
Mind you, I don't remember the last time I paid for something with physical money...how quaint...
|
>> Mind you, I don't remember the last time I paid for something with physical money...how
>> quaint...
Are you one of these people who, in a crowded pub with limited bar staff, insists on paying for two halves of bitter shandy and a packet of smokey bacon with a debit card? Appalling, mimserly behaviour. Pubs (especially busy ones) should be cash only.
|
>> Are you one of these people who, in a crowded pub with limited bar staff,
>> insists on paying for two halves of bitter shandy and a packet of smokey bacon
>> with a debit card? Appalling, mimserly behaviour. Pubs (especially busy ones) should be cash only.
Unless I'm prevented from doing so by their minimum spend rules, then yes.
Wait in line mister.
"Pubs should be cash only" - have you been transported here from 1950? Get yourself down the British Legion, with a pint of stout.
Don't worry, contactless payment will start to become common place.
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>> Wait in line mister.
I thought you would say that, given that your time is more precious than everyone else's.
It's OK to queue jump in traffic, and it's OK to hold up other people at busy bars for your own convenience.
I'm starting to suspect the work of a very convincing wum or troll here, sad to say.
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>> >> Wait in line mister.
>>
>> I thought you would say that, given that your time is more precious than everyone
>> else's.
>>
>> It's OK to queue jump in traffic, and it's OK to hold up other people
>> at busy bars for your own convenience.
It's you that wants to rush me at the bar, because apparently your time is too precious to wait for me.
You want me to wait in line in the traffic, but you're not prepared to wait in line behind me at the bar.
Hypocrite.
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>> Hypocrite.
Not really. If queuing in traffic, there's usually not much the bloke at the front can do about it to speed things up for those behind him. Queuing in a pub, the bloke at the front can help matters along by paying cash instead of the interminable process of of barman fetching terminal (hang on where is it, oh the other bloke's left it 50 yards away), hand over terminal, check amount, enter pin, await approval of pin, hand terminal back, await approval of transaction, awaiting printing and tearing off of two receipts (never required on cash transactions unless someone's after claiming expenses), barman staring glumly into space most of the time whilst the other 2 dozen thirsty punters wait for his attention.
Blasted nonsense. Get your tenner out man (or more likely twenty round my way).
You're looking at it backwards, or are on the wind up, as usual.
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>> Blasted nonsense. Get your tenner out man (or more likely twenty round my way).
Wait your turn.
I suppose you also get irate at people not driving fast enough for your standards, also.
>> You're looking at it backwards, or are on the wind up, as usual.
I expected that you would say that, and yet everybody has to pay cash, just so that you aren't held up.
|
>> I suppose you also get irate at people not driving fast enough for your standards,
>> also.
Not something I expected to be accused of on here. I'm hardly known as the forum's Fangio.
Coming from a self confessed queue jumper, it's pretty rich too. I suggest you stop digging now.
Your selfish and inconsiderate attitudes to almost everything are a really rather poor show. If I know I'm going to a busy pub (they pretty much all are in London particularly), I'll stop at a cash point on the way in order to be sure that I can complete my transactions there as quickly as possible, in order to allow others to be served after me more promptly. That's called being considerated. Standing at the bar to pay a couple of quid for a round of drinks with a credit card whilst others have to wait for you (probably several times over an evening session), is selfish and inconsiderate. And probably self defeating as you'd proably be quicker spending a minute at the cash point once than thumping your pin in several times over at the bar.
|
>> >> I suppose you also get irate at people not driving fast enough for your
>> standards,
>> >> also.
>>
>> Coming from a self confessed queue jumper, it's pretty rich too. I suggest you stop
>> digging now.
Not at all. What has queue jumping got to do with becoming irate at people not driving fast enough?
You are the one getting irate because somebody wants to pay with a credit card, a form of payment that pubs are happy to accept.
>> That's called being considerated.
Since when do you decide what is considerate?
If I want to pay with CC, then you should be considerate and wait for me.
It so happens that you personally don't like people paying by credit card, so you don't pay by credit card, and therefore think that you have a right to have a go at people not paying by credit card.
|
>>
>> If I want to pay with CC, then you should be considerate and wait for
>> me.
>>
Would you extend that courtesy to others?
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>> >> If I want to pay with CC, then you should be considerate and wait
>> for
>> >> me.
>> >>
>>
>> Would you extend that courtesy to others?
Do you mean, would I wait for somebody else paying by CC? If so, yes.
I don't understand the impatience. I can understand people putting their interests before other, but not with getting so impatient with others, which I think are two different things.
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>> It so happens that you personally don't like people paying by credit card, so you
>> don't pay by credit card, and therefore think that you have a right to have
>> a go at people not paying by credit card.
>>
Got in a bit of a knot at the end there, I think.
|
>> >> It so happens that you personally don't like people paying by credit card, so
>> you
>> >> don't pay by credit card, and therefore think that you have a right to
>> have
>> >> a go at people not paying by credit card.
>> >>
>>
>> Got in a bit of a knot at the end there, I think.
Oh, I see, picking up on typos to try to make a point are you now? What if we all did that?
Never mind, as you said, you consider that your actions are "considerated" towards others. LOL.
|
>
>>
>> Mind you, I don't remember the last time I paid for something with physical money...how
>> quaint...
>>
Not at all? Even a round in a pub or stuff less than £1?
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>> >> Mind you, I don't remember the last time I paid for something with physical
>> money...how
>> >> quaint...
>>
>> Not at all? Even a round in a pub or stuff less than £1?
I'd almost always use my card for a round in a pub, and I put a 59p purchase on my credit card in McDonald's the other day.
The only time I use cash is when I am forced to (such as when a business has a minimum spend for a card).
|
>>
>> I'd almost always use my card for a round in a pub, and I put
>> a 59p purchase on my credit card in McDonald's the other day.
>>
>> The only time I use cash is when I am forced to (such as when
>> a business has a minimum spend for a card).
>>
How come, like Alanovic said bit of a faff in a pub? Why the CC for everything?
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>> How come, like Alanovic said bit of a faff in a pub? Why the CC
>> for everything?
I don't see why the pub is different to anywhere else. Should we only ever be allowed to pay cash, just so we don't hold Alanovic up?
Mind you, by the time you've handed your money other, had your change counted, and given back to you, I'm not even sure cash is that much quicker. If it is, it's because pubs don't have enough card terminals (blame the pub, not me).
Cards are obviously more convenient than cash. You don't have to carry a wad of cash around, and you don't have to carry all the change around too.
|
>> >> How come, like Alanovic said bit of a faff in a pub? Why the
>> CC
>> >> for everything?
>>
>> I don't see why the pub is different to anywhere else. Should we only ever
>> be allowed to pay cash, just so we don't hold Alanovic up?
No
>>
>> Mind you, by the time you've handed your money other, had your change counted, and
>> given back to you, I'm not even sure cash is that much quicker. If it
>> is, it's because pubs don't have enough card terminals (blame the pub, not me).
>>
>> Cards are obviously more convenient than cash.
Your paragraph above contradicts this sentence.
You don't have to carry a wad of
>> cash around, and you don't have to carry all the change around too.
No hardship really, can't clone a tenner. Take cash no need for plastic. Like most I carry both, not really quaint look at the queue for cash machines on fri/sat night.
>>
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 25 Jul 11 at 14:20
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>> You don't have to carry a wad of
>> >> cash around, and you don't have to carry all the change around too.
>>
>> No hardship really, can't clone a tenner. Take cash no need for plastic. Like most
>> I carry both, not really quaint look at the queue for cash machines on fri/sat
>> night.
I think you'll find that you can clone a tenner (or close enough look like one in a darkened pub), and that's another good reason to avoid using cash when you can.
Having to queue at cash-points, as you mention, is another good reason for not relying on cash too much.
Oh, and you don't get any kind of rewards when you use cash too. They're hardly big, but better than nothing.
Card every time, and contact-less when that becomes more available.
Move with the times people.
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>>
>> I think you'll find that you can clone a tenner (or close enough look like
>> one in a darkened pub), and that's another good reason to avoid using cash when
>> you can.
I suppose that depends on the establishment you wish to visit :)
>> Card every time, and contact-less when that becomes more available.
Not seen one yet. But I live in the sticks so some time in 2078 then ;)
>>
>> Move with the times people.
>>
Oh I do, I use whichever is most suitable, flexibility people.
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>> Oh I do, I use whichever is most suitable, flexibility people.
>>
That's right. Cash in busy pubs, and for low value transactions. It's why SS's much vaunted "contactless" system is being introduced, card payment isn't great for many kinds of transaction. I look forward to using it in the fullness of time. But until then, people paying for drinks only in a bar are a blasted nuisance.
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I'm sorry, but if SS is in the Q at the bar insisting on paying for his 1/2 mild and pork scratchings with a credit card, he will get his half of beer down his trousers and his pork scratchings shoved up his backside.
One wonders how one can both have time too precious to waste AND demand patience because of "ones rights"
And yes Instant cashless payment will come using NFC, but it hasnt yet. Till it does one is libel to be thrown down the cellar steps.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Jul 11 at 19:57
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>>
>>
>> One wonders how one can both have time too precious to waste AND demand patience
>> because of "ones rights"
Why do you think he rushes about on the road, he needs that time to faff about with CC at the bar ;)
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Don't worry, soon SS will be waiting behind the rest of us using cards (or maybe cash if we are in a good mood) to use his instant transaction contactless gadget.
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I must admit, for a while now I have been using the debit card more and more often rather than cash.
The reason for this is I am doing an analysis of the family spending and it tells you more accurately where the money is going. Cash withdrawal entries on the bank statement don't tell you where that cash ended up going.
Everytime I buy anything that could be deemed grocery shopping, whether it be the week's shop, carton of milk and loaf of bread or whatever, it goes on the debit card. By doing this, I have had my eyes opened wide as to how much we spend on "groceries". Previously we would probably have paid cash for anything under a tenner and never got an accurate picture.
Of course SWMBO will still occasionally insist on getting cashback at the till which throws my whole figures out!!
However going back to the point in question, unless it was a Brewers Fayre type place of running up a tab or whatever, I think it would be cash all the time in pubs.
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>> I'm sorry, but if SS is in the Q at the bar insisting on paying
>> for his 1/2 mild and pork scratchings with a credit card, he will get his
>> half of beer down his trousers and his pork scratchings shoved up his backside.
Not happened yet, but maybe you will be the guy to do it Zero, in between pretending that you have deliberately driven into other people to teach them a lesson.
I think that C4P might have its first bona fide, Internet Tough Guy :)
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I dont need to pretend SS, the description of the event is on here or the other place.
And it wasn't to teach them a lesson, it was sheer anger and temper at meeting too many SS's in too short a period of time.
Still you'll meet you own real one on the road sooner or later. They might be driving a company car too.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 25 Jul 11 at 20:27
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>> I dont need to pretend SS, the description of the event is on here or
>> the other place.
Oh yeah, that's proof isn't it.
I don't think that this is the first time I've pointed out to you that very little has credibility on internet forums, as much as we claim expertise or to have carried out great feats.
In fact, we could go as far as posting our own fantasy manifestos claiming to be part of some new world order if we want to. All that people know for a fact is that we have access to a keyboard, and maybe a little too much time.
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>> Oh yeah, that's proof isn't it.
>> very little has credibility on internet forums, as much as we claim expertise or to have carried out great feats.
I don't know whether you have noticed this SS, but Walter Mitty types nearly always give themselves away from the start with improbable accounts or 'false notes'. I seem to remember a couple who seemed like that in the other place, but I haven't noticed any here.
In the other place, when I was first there, I posted some anecdote and some twozzer thought fit to cast doubt on its truth. Naturally one doesn't give much of a damn if someone is too dumb to recognise a true story when they read it though.
>> maybe a little too much time.
Or too little actually. I come here to get away from work which is very pressing at the moment. It's a bad habit rather like smoking marijuana, another big timewaster.
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>> In the other place, when I was first there, I posted some anecdote and some
>> twozzer thought fit to cast doubt on its truth. Naturally one doesn't give much of
>> a damn if someone is too dumb to recognise a true story when they read
>> it though.
It's nothing to do with being too dumb to recognise a true story though is it? You can recognise it as possible, it doesn't mean that it happened.
Somebody could be too dumb to recognise that something is highly unlikely, and swallow any old tripe. Such as my liaison with Megan Fox last night.
On the other hand, the trip I made to buy milk from the corner shop today (of which I can give minute details) is completely believable, except that it never happened.
My only point is that we shouldn't expect others to rely upon claims we make on the internet. Especially when they are used to make a point and/or win an argument, but even when they aren't.
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SS, it might be worth remembering that some of us converse by other media and have met each other in the real world.
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>> SS, it might be worth remembering that some of us converse by other media and
>> have met each other in the real world.
I didn't suggest that everybody else on this site doesn't exist. I wasn't trying to claim that it is just me and AC, and AC's legion of sockpuppets...although it could be, of course.
I meet up with a good friend of mine, who talks all kinds of nonsense, and makes all kinds of unsubstantiated claims that he has probably made up, but he does actually exist...you can take my word for it :)
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>>I meet up with a good friend of mine, who talks all kinds of nonsense, and makes all kinds of unsubstantiated claims that he has probably made up, but he does actually exist...you can take my word for it :)
Would that be the friend who bought some milk at the corner shop? ;>)
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>> nothing to do with being too dumb to recognise a true story though is it?
Yes, it is. 'It's the way they tell'em'. To simulate or counterfeit a true story takes considerable skill. Most literate people with the odd brain can rumble bull droppings quite quickly.
The point about anecdotes though is that they are supposed to have a point. Trekking to the shop for some milk, by itself, even with embroidery about the stench of privet, the snotnosed nippers in prams, the spade dudes cruising past in a ponced-up twenty-year old BMW and so on, doesn't have one, unless something significant or unusual occurred during it.
As for Megan Fox, whoever she may be, God preserve us from men's accounts of their sexual conquests. They are seldom wholly or even partly true, nearly always distasteful and quite often loathsome. And there are people who will bawl them out in the pub to their workmates, I seem to remember from the days when I had to associate with people like that.
You're being tiresome again SS. Come to think of it, didn't I see you mentioned in some other thread when people were talking about who should be shot or something?
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>> Yes, it is. 'It's the way they tell'em'. To simulate or counterfeit a true story
>> takes considerable skill. Most literate people with the odd brain can rumble bull droppings quite
>> quickly.
It perhaps does when one is face to face, because there are nuances to be picked up. Not so on the internet.
I reckon that, given the distance, and the time to think between responses, a lot of people could get past even the most experienced copper.
You can make any kind of claim. As long as you don't make too outrageous a claim, or over-complicate it and give something away.
>> You're being tiresome again SS. Come to think of it, didn't I see you mentioned
>> in some other thread when people were talking about who should be shot or something?
Oh well. As you know, there's only one thing worse than being talked about...
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You should report it! That is reckless and very easily could have caused an accident. You will find the police are interested. A colleague had a visit one night from the police after someone reported him not stopping at a zebra crossing whilst someone was on it.
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I get very wound up sometimes, and quite wound up often. I'm used to it, but the Tourette's side does get on herself's nerves sometimes, and no one could blame her.
Feeling OK now because have just made a fairly decently rapid trip home from that there London, plenty of mimsers as usual and one or two of those incredibly depressing cud-chewing well-below-the-limit-let-alone-what-the-limit-ought-to-be mimser processions, but none of that lasted too long and we cut through nicely hardly exceeding the speed limit anywhere by more than 10mph.
But I'm 72 and a lifelong car enthusiast whose driving became finally more or less all right after hacking it as a South London minicab driver when you could really bomb about. SteelSpark is quite a bit younger and probably hasn't done that, so he may have the sort of non-fatal attitude problem many young drivers have, compounded of inexperience - perceptible I have to say in some of his posts - and honest distaste for what bad driving he is aware of.
But bright-eyed and bushy-tailed is OK in my book. The risky side of that diminishes with time. One has to hope it won't end in real tears, just the couple of blushes, fines and bodyshop bills these things cost most of us when we were like that.
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Anyway, what about the popsy in the Porker? On a mission or just bad mannered?
Report her, no not me. If she'd actually hit something maybe but as she didn't it's kind of up to the authorities to spot her and her conscience to guide her. I don't really mind other drivers near me behaving badly, I just keep my distance from them and let them get on with it. Sort of decoy effect really. That way you can be subtly naughty yourself without so much fear of being caught !
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>> the popsy in the Porker? On a mission or just bad mannered?
Who knows? Who cares? I'm with you on this Humph. If she wants to risk her undoubtedly expensive tyres on all the glass, nails, steel radial belt debris and stones on the hard shoulder, who am I to complain?
Of course it is annoying when someone comes past on the unexpected side and you haven't seen them. But it's probably your fault you haven't seen them. Just because it's the wrong side you shouldn't imagine you don't need to be aware of what's going on there. But one often isn't of course, so I have some sympathy for DP, much increased by his decision not to run howling to the authorities. One should only do that in cases of real life- or limb- threatening behaviour, and the Porker popsy wasn't quite on that level judging by the OP.
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So Humph, would you report a drunk driver?
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Very interesting thread and thanks for all the replies.
I think in future, I would do something along the lines of BobbyG's suggestion. Very nicely put, and it would at least flag the registration number in case of future misdemeanours.
I don't drive to the letter of the law, but I still think barging up the hard shoulder to avoid a queue is completely out of order. It's also in a completely different ballpark to lane changing or exploiting gaps in order to make up ground, IMHO.
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>> So Humph, would you report a drunk driver?
I don't know about HD'b but I would, and have more than once. Taking a risk too far in my book. Maybe it's age now, or life experience, but I can't see any circumstances in which taking charge of a car whilst not fully in control of one's faculties can be acceptable.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Sun 17 Jul 11 at 22:36
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>> I can't see any circumstances in which taking charge of a car whilst not fully in control of one's faculties can be acceptable.
I can't remember a single moment when I have been fully in control of my faculties. It's a sliding scale which goes from unconsciousness to some dizzy height of faculty control experienced perhaps once or twice by super-fit, genius-IQ space programme robots... But cars aren't spacecraft and driving isn't brain surgery. Naturally I take your point Dave. I have in the past driven when very drunk, and I reckon I was a bit dangerous, although mainly to myself and my car. I haven't done that for three decades though.
I suppose the real point is what your faculties are like in the first place. As we all know, some people's aren't good enough to make them safe drivers however appallingly sober they may be. Quite a few actually.
I have a highly specific view on these matters. I know for a fact that a relaxed and cheerful driver is far more likely to be safe than a tense, anxious one. Some tyro drivers are definitely better after a drink. It makes them worry less, and the minuscule deterioration in reaction times and so on makes no real difference.
Should people drive when they're plastered? No, of course not. It's asking for trouble, perhaps serious life-changing trouble. Should they be zealous about never driving when they've had a drink, or even two? Only they can tell. If they are used to drinking and drink well (as the saying goes) then they shouldn't worry about it. If they are the type that starts to get vague and silly after a pint - they do exist - then they should drive dry. If at all.
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>> whose driving became finally more or less all right after hacking it as a South London minicab driver
>> when you could really bomb about.
Likewise, but in Bedford. I still hold several land speed records in the borough, the extent of which don't bear repeating here but which, looking back, would warrant several lengthy stretches inside.
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>>I still hold several land speed records in the borough
I think I was your passenger - at least once. ;>(
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>> I think I was your passenger - at least once
Haha, only if you worked at Kempston PHQ in Woburn Road...
I may have hurried between jobs, but never put the clog down excessively with P.O.B. - apart from when running people into town from the above location to continue their nights' imbibitions, and then only with their encouragement ;-)
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>> never put the clog down excessively with P.O.B.
I didn't either. No late-night 80mph along the South Bank when carrying one. But nervous types could get worried even in the normal hurly-burly of West End traffic, especially Americans. Not everyone can tell the difference between briskly efficient and insanely reckless. Those who could were sometimes quite appreciative though.
My firm had an account with the UPW whose HQ was nearby in Clapham. It's called something else now. The union officials quite liked us because we didn't waste time (of course not: account jobs earned us less and we wanted to get back to ordinary punters).
I 'ad that Tom Jackson in the back of the cab once. Well, in the front really, and quite a few times. A genial man popular with the other drivers (he was quite right wing for a union man), who coped well with criticism of a speech he had made, from a far-left position and delivered in a posh accent by an unshaven minicab driver of all people... couldn't help liking him despite the whiskers.
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Tom Jackson retired to his native yorkshire and ran a bookshop in Ilkley. My mother used to see him round and about the town quite often.
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What is it like now to become a taxi driver in London? Cant be easy with all the traffic and destinations to learn.
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Don't you know about the 'Knowledge' Dutchie? Black cab drivers have to learn by heart some hundreds of routes across London, naming all the roads en route and keeping up to date with new traffic systems and so on. They also have to learn all the theatres, main hospitals, main tourist destinations and so on and how to set passengers down at the door. The system is run from the Metropolitan Carriage Office which has some sort of fairly close relationship with the police.
Takes one to five or more years to work your way through that essentially 19th century system and get your licence - to print money, we minicabbers always thought. Would-be cabbies doing the knowledge are one of the hazards of London traffic, not kamikazes like the pizza delivery boys but mimsing around on mo-peds with clipboards bolted to the handlebars. You can't miss them.
Minicabbing used to be a noble profession for heavy-footed lumpen hooligans. Today they are usually recent immigrants driving people carriers very slowly and erratically with their eyes glued to the pratnav. A sad spectacle and often in the damn way.
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Didn't a London taxidriver won a knowledge quiz on the television?I remember seeing the show.
I can imagine a lot to learn and dealing with people a noble profession .Like so many jobs A.C watered down.
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Thanks for that Zero I remember seeing him winning now.Clever man.
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320 routes, plus all places of interest and landmarks on each route, and within a quarter mile radius of the each of the start/finish points. It's an incredible challenge. Hats off to 'em.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 18 Jul 11 at 22:08
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Always think black cab drivers don't look very comfortable. They seem to have to sit as if they were on a bar stool.
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I think modern black cabs aren't so bad Humph. They are quite brisk and have power steering, hydraulic disc brakes and I think the seat is a special orthopaedic adjustable thing.
FX3 and early FX4 cabs were pretty horrible though, slow, noisy and cramped for the driver. FX3s had mechanical brakes all round too by regulation, although I think front brakes went hydraulic with the FX4. Driven both.
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Reporting idiotic driving - Runfer D'Hills
