Motoring Discussion > Tanker strike - Volume 1   [Read only]	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: movilogo	Replies: 191

New Sun 25 Mar 12 07:46   Tanker strike - Volume 1 - movilogo

***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 2 ***** With the news of probable tanker strike before Easter holidays, I am wondering why tanker drivers are considered special. Are HGV drivers with articulated lorry license not allowed to drive tankers? If not, why? Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 29 Mar 12 at 01:25

New Sun 25 Mar 12 08:22   Tanker strike - Meldrew

Special qualifications are needed to drive a tanker. An ADR Vocational Training Certificate is required by any driver carrying "In-Scope" packaged Dangerous Goods, for a tanker of >1m3 or tank container of >3m3 - regardless of the gross weight of the carrying vehicle, and is valid for five years.       1

New Sun 25 Mar 12 08:41   Tanker strike - Meldrew

On reflection I think my cut/paste is not relevant but there is a special qualification for driving tankers containing bulk liquids. PDA - have you over slept?

New Sun 25 Mar 12 08:59   Tanker strike - movilogo

Was that additional requirement introduced to look after interest of tanker drivers? How difficult to attain thst qualification for normal HGV drivers?

New Sun 25 Mar 12 09:13   Tanker strike - Old Navy

In a real emergency situation all rules (and in extreme situations laws) can be waived. I have seen it happen. Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 25 Mar 12 at 09:14

New Sun 25 Mar 12 09:43   Tanker strike - sooty123

the miltary are been trained to cover the possible strike. I would think the proper course would be taught. However like on says if things get really tight the training will be reduced and legislation brought in to cover that.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 10:38   Tanker strike - Meldrew

Many Army drivers will have the qualification already as they drive tankers as a matter of normal duty. Not many RAF ones will as fuel is delivered by pipeline and the petrol by civilian tankers

New Sun 25 Mar 12 10:43   Tanker strike - sooty123

No not really, the raf have quite a few bowser drivers to refuel aircraft, most are refuelled that way. The army have plenty of drivers with C+E but I don't know how many have adr. Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 25 Mar 12 at 10:45

New Sun 25 Mar 12 10:49   Tanker strike - Fullchat

Don't know whether it's changed but I got my ADR bulk flammables in 2 days. Expired now as I have no requirement.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 18:23   Tanker strike - R.P.

the petrol by civilian tankers Shell tankers ferry the Jet A-1 to RAF Valley - they travel at specific times of the day along the A55

New Sun 25 Mar 12 13:33   Tanker strike - Harleyman

>> How difficult to attain thst qualification for normal HGV drivers? >> One week course, retraining every 5 years with a 3-day refresher IIRC. That's for the whole lot, from nuclear weapons and live ammunition to fertiliser; to drive a fuel tanker you actually only need one module out of nine which is Class 3 flammable liquids (tank). Most of the course obviously is to do with Elf and Safety, there's also a lot of things to learn about quantities of what constitutes ADR and what doesn't; for example anyone can carry up to a thousand litres of diesel in packs (drums or jerry-cans) but to carry the same quantity on a bulk tanker whichj has capacity for say 15,000 litres you'd need the licence. I wouldn't say it's easy but anyone with a decent standard of education and a retentive memory (essential in any lorry driver) should pass without too many problems. Multi-choice test at the end, unless it's changed in the last 10 years.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 13:27   Tanker strike - -

>> I am wondering why tanker drivers are considered special. >> They tend to keep the shiny side up. Do you really want every tom dick and unpronouncable let loose with flammables and toxic chemicals in huge bulk.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 13:42   Tanker strike - Harleyman

>> >> They tend to keep the shiny side up. >> >> Do you really want every tom dick and unpronouncable let loose with flammables and toxic >> chemicals in huge bulk. >> I'd concede that their driving standards are pretty good overall GB for the very reasons you state; but they're no better than a lot of others. I don't recollect the Calor gas drivers striking every five minutes, and if you remember what happened to one of Meachers' lorries a few years ago on the M3 I'm sure you'll agree that it's equally dangerous work. It's worth pointing out that, as GB well knows, until very recently it was virtually impossible to get a job driving for any of the big fuel companies unless you either knew, or were related to, someone who worked there; a classic case of dead mens' shoes. It's not quite so good now in common with the rest of the haulage industry, but tanker drivers are still regarded as probably the best paid of the lot. If I'm being honest I don't think they are special; they simply have a union which is fully aware that it's got a decent chance of having a government it despises and fears by the short and curlies in a year which includes the Olympics and the jubilee. They've seen the railway companies give in cravenly to the Tube drivers' demands for extra money during the Olympics ( as if they're likely to work any harder) and think they've got the best opportunity they'll have for ages of doing the same.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 04:27   Tanker strike - Pat

I've been in Belgium for the weekend avoiding paying the chancellor his excessive duty on my cigarettes and wine;) I agree with Harleyman, tanker drivers are trained ADR drivers, that's all just as many other drivers are. Mt pda has all classes of ADR and in a previous job regularly carted around full loads of radioactive stuff, but has never thought he was special. It does concentrate the mind while driving though that it's best to keep the shiny side up. The Tanker drivers are taking advantage, as is their Union, of holding the country to ransome once again and if you read their lies, they would have you believe it is all about safety regulations and a fall in standards. In reality, offer them a pay rise and those objections about safety regulations would be forgotten and they'd accept faster than you could fill a jerrycan. Pat

New Sun 25 Mar 12 14:06   Tanker strike - L'escargot

>> With the news of probable tanker strike before Easter holidays, I am wondering why tanker >> drivers are considered special. >> >> Are HGV drivers with articulated lorry license not allowed to drive tankers? If not, why? Fuel in tankers slops about so a tanker requires more skill to drive than an ordinary lorry.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 14:12   Tanker strike - Zero

What about milk? or slurry?

New Sun 25 Mar 12 14:14   Tanker strike - -

>> What about milk? or slurry? >> Not likely to annihalate half a town or half a mile of motorway traffic if the worse happens.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 14:16   Tanker strike - Zero

>> >> What about milk? or slurry? >> >> >> >> Not likely to annihalate half a town or half a mile of motorway traffic if >> the worse happens. What slurry? I'd far sooner fry.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 14:17   Tanker strike - Harleyman

>> Fuel in tankers slops about so a tanker requires more skill to drive than an >> ordinary lorry. >> That applies to any liquid carried in bulk. The load is carried in compartments with baffle plates fitted to minimise this; the tankers concerned deliver to garage forecourts so they don't have to navigate rutted farm tracks, reverse blind into a shed half full of machinery in the dark or find a particular field in the Brecon Beacons as I do. All aspects of road transport have their own particular skills, whether it applies to the load being carried or simply the job itself.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 14:41   Tanker strike - L'escargot

Fuel Liquid in tankers slops about so a tanker requires more skill to drive than an ordinary lorry.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 15:33   Tanker strike - Old Navy

When I was driving Green Goddesses we had the water tank either full or empty, no baffles fitted!

New Sun 25 Mar 12 15:54   Tanker strike - Ted

It seems that 300 military drivers are on standby. With 2000 drivers running the service it looks as though supplies will be restricted to essential services. I don't imagine we grunts will be anywhere near the top of the pecking order. We have a couple of 200 mile round trips planned soon. I've applied for a disabled railcard which gives a third off to the holder and companion.....only twenty notes to cover both of us so worth it . The fares become roughly on a par with the derv I would have used so I can save my small stock for work and domestic use. Ted

New Sun 25 Mar 12 16:12   Tanker strike - Zero

>> When I was driving Green Goddesses we had the water tank either full or empty, >> no baffles fitted! At 5mph max speed its not going to slop far.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 16:48   Tanker strike - Old Navy

I got mine up to 68mph on a long slightly downhill straight stretch of road late one night, my police escort were well impressed. :-) The 5 mph was for corners, and I was passed by a cyclist on a steep uphill bit when I had the blue lights on (and a full tank of water). Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 25 Mar 12 at 16:49

New Sun 25 Mar 12 17:22   Tanker strike - Shiny

The army won't just be able to walk in and load and deliver fuel, it would take a fair bit of training, and there is no single system for loading, so the skills are only partially transferable. I suspect there will be an increase in crossovers, where the wrong compartment is off-loaded into the wrong tank, then who is liable? The government? The Army? The fuel company?

New Sun 25 Mar 12 18:07   Tanker strike - Harleyman

>> The army won't just be able to walk in and load and deliver fuel, it >> would take a fair bit of training, and there is no single system for loading, >> so the skills are only partially transferable. I suspect there will be an increase in >> crossovers, where the wrong compartment is off-loaded into the wrong tank, then who is liable? >> The government? The Army? The fuel company? >> The army runs bulk fuel tankers of its own; whilst I concede that the troops will be unfamiliar with procedures at individual depots one would assume that they would be supervised by refinery staff, to avoid the possibilities of such instances as you mention.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 18:18   Tanker strike - Old Navy

>> The army won't just be able to walk in and load and deliver fuel, it >> would take a fair bit of training, and there is no single system for loading, >> so the skills are only partially transferable. I suspect there will be an increase in >> crossovers, where the wrong compartment is off-loaded into the wrong tank, then who is liable? >> The government? The Army? The fuel company? >> Joe publics petrol station will be way down the list of priorities I would think. Bulk deliveries of diesel to food distribution companies, emergency services, transport providers, etc will come before anyones trip to the seaside.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 18:51   Tanker strike - sooty123

The military are well aware of contamination issues, even if not the same method of control.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:03   Tanker strike - -

Refinery and distribution staff will be union members, management may help break a strike, not so sure about the staff, good unionised jobs stay good because they stand together. Interesting to see how this pans out, i hope the politician responsible for this decision is prepared to take responsibility if something goes tragically wrong, potential for lots...the same one will be quick to bask in the glory if it goes to plan.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:08   Tanker strike - Iffy

... i hope the politician responsible for this decision is prepared to take responsibility if something goes tragically wrong, potential for lots...the same one will be quick to bask in the glory if it goes to plan... It's the same in any walk of life - success has many parents, but failure is always an orphan.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:12   Tanker strike - Meldrew

Is there any political involvement at this stage, what decision have they made?. Unite are holding a ballot and there may be a strike. Anything else going on, publicly at least?

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:13   Tanker strike - movilogo

Heard in news strike is very likely and army is already undergoing training to tackle the issue.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:11   Tanker strike - Old Navy

Has it occurred to anyone that the military may have access to large emergency supplies of fuel not in the control of the unions? Maybe not enough for public use but enough to keep vital things ticking over.       1

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:17   Tanker strike - Dutchie

Like the miners strike when the power workers wouldn't support them.Also they had stockpiled coal.There is trouble looming to many young people out of work fuel cost of the chart.The rich getting richer the poor poorer.       1

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:17   Tanker strike - Iffy

...Has it occurred to anyone that the military may have access to large emergency supplies of fuel not in the control of the unions?... When I was a child, a medium sized field near me was dug up, some major earthworks done and the area then returned to pasture. Me and my young chums decided it was a secret fuel dump.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:23   Tanker strike - Zero

I have pinpointed and visited a number of "strategic fuel reserves" as they were called, a large proportion are now derelict. The idea of strategic reserves and stockpiles, has by and large gone out the window. Last edited by: Zero on Sun 25 Mar 12 at 20:24

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:36   Tanker strike - Old Navy

>> I have pinpointed and visited a number of "strategic fuel reserves" as they were called, >> a large proportion are now derelict. >> >> The idea of strategic reserves and stockpiles, has by and large gone out the window. >> >> You would not get near anything sensitive, in the age of terrorism many facilities are not advertised and are unobtrusive but are well secured, sometimes by people with guns. There are several fuel dumps in my area, two have been demolished but many would pass by three others without realising what they were. Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 25 Mar 12 at 20:41

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:46   Tanker strike - -

Stockpiling does make sense, must be linked into the major pipelines though so as to keep some sort of stock rotation going. The sort of volumes we're be talking about would mean either a full train or hundreds of road tankers to change stock....hardly the stuff of secrecy hidden down leafy unkempt lanes. If they are doing it i take me hat off to them, i'd have though Blair would have flogged that sort of capability off cheaply to some of his mates long ago. Would imagine the likes of Heyford, and other mothballed, but not dismantled, bases would have serious underground storage for lots of things.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:50   Tanker strike - Zero

Seriously, stockpiling has gone by the board. There is sufficient material for ongoing current military requirements, but strategic reserves for times of crisis simply no longer exists, as said the costs were/are too great, I was near tewsksbury, standing next to the rail spur to one of the largest military storage facilities on Sunday. The current talk is of turning into a housing estate. Last edited by: Zero on Sun 25 Mar 12 at 20:52

New Sun 25 Mar 12 20:48   Tanker strike - Zero

Not advertised maybe, but known. Nothing is secret these days, Google earth has done for that.

New Sun 25 Mar 12 21:00   Tanker strike - Old Navy

OK you know best, try a Google for "Oil and pipelines agency" that one is in the public domain. Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 25 Mar 12 at 21:04

New Sun 25 Mar 12 21:11   Tanker strike - Zero

I don't need to google it, It runs out side a friend of mines house who lives alongside an RAF base. It has to be declared as an environmental hazard on a land search.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 00:33   Tanker strike - teabelly

If they do strike and there are fuel shortages all those electric car drivers are going to be very smug. For that reason alone the tanker drivers should just belt up and do their jobs. Everyone has to put up with worse pay and conditions during a recession. All that will happen is that hordes of foreign tanker drivers will potentially be drafted in to fill their jobs. In hard times it's a short cut to the dole queue if you start striking.       1

New Mon 26 Mar 12 00:58   Tanker strike - rtj70

Another scenario for tanker drivers is they are replaced with other qualified drivers. The army has tanker drivers as we know. So if they did go on strike for a long period I hope they are fired. And replaced. As said above we all have to take into account the economic situation.       1

New Mon 26 Mar 12 04:44   Tanker strike - idle_chatterer

>> Another scenario for tanker drivers is they are replaced with other qualified drivers. The army >> has tanker drivers as we know. So if they did go on strike for a >> long period I hope they are fired. And replaced. >> >> As said above we all have to take into account the economic situation. >> Tricky to balance economic concerns with civil rights though, if a regime makes economic damage a reason for preventing strike action it *might* be perceived as rather authoritarian ? With all of these things, drawing the line is not easy I'd suggest.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 05:17   Tanker strike - Auntie Lockbrakes

Digressing slightly, if you stockpile fuel, how long until it goes off? Moisture contamination, rusty barrels,... Someone told me recently that fuel in yor petrol tank can start to go off in a fortnight?!

New Mon 26 Mar 12 09:18   Tanker strike - L'escargot

>> Someone told me recently that fuel in yor petrol tank can start to go >> off in a fortnight?! >> Fuel for my mower is still OK after several months.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 10:32   Tanker strike - VxFan

>> Fuel for my mower is still OK after several months. Mine still has last years in. Ran fine at the weekend when I cut the grass with it. My motorbike is the same. Tends to only comes out these days for its annual MOT. Petrol in it is probably 2 years old. Chances are it'll evaporate away quicker than the engine will use it.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 10:19   Tanker strike - Meldrew

Cut and paste for a slightly similar situation in USA in 1981 On this day in 1981, President Ronald Reagan fired more than 11,000 air traffic controllers who ignored his order to return to work. The sweeping mass firing of federal employees slowed commercial air travel, but it did not cripple the system as the strikers had forecast. Two days earlier, nearly 13,000 controllers walked out after talks with the Federal Aviation Administration collapsed. As a result, some 7,000 flights across the country were canceled on that day at the peak of the summer travel season. To the chagrin of the strikers, the FAA’s contingency plans worked. Some 3,000 supervisors joined 2,000 nonstriking controllers and 900 military controllers in manning airport towers. Before long, about 80 percent of flights were operating normally. Air freight remained virtually unaffected. Not saying it could or would happen here or that it would be the answer as the tanker drivers are private and not State employees.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 09:21   Tanker strike - L'escargot

How long will it be before drivers are panic buying and filling up their cars every few miles?

New Mon 26 Mar 12 10:06   Tanker strike - -

Its not inevitable a strike will happen and i hope it won't, the vote for industrial action is just another stage in the process, its a good weapon to go to the negotiating table with though, shows your members, who are the union at the end of the day, are united and prepared to act. The anti brigade do amuse me, there are many who have benefitted by the hard won negotiating of collective bargianing, and many more who despite not belonging to a union (often despising them) have quietly pocketted the extra money gained by the knock on effect of efforts of those in similar industries. If it wasn't for tanker and transporter drivers generally leading pay wise, exactly how low would the salaries be in related fields, unless the idea is that we fully assume third world status, or go back to serfdom....thats fine if that how you want it but be prepared for the antics of monkeys when peanuts are paid. The hours some drivers work in other areas of transport is frankly shocking for a barely liveable wage, the most famous transport company in the country has drivers working 70 hour weeks on hourly pay, and still counting their night out subsistence allowance as part of their wages, you couldn't make it up.       3

New Mon 26 Mar 12 12:16   Tanker strike - Pat

>>there are many who have benefitted by the hard won negotiating of collective bargianing<< I've always found that relying on my own ability to work hard has negated the need for any collective bargaining, and that's the way I prefer it to be. Don't forget the Union leaders are every bit as corrupt as the politicians you despise GB. Unite, Bob Crow, DCPC disquailfication? Pat Last edited by: pda on Mon 26 Mar 12 at 12:17       3

New Mon 26 Mar 12 12:35   Tanker strike - -

>> Don't forget the Union leaders are every bit as corrupt as the politicians you despise >> I have no time for union leaders, even when time proves they told the truth, like Scargill. A union is only as good as its local depot members, not all drivers have your ability or your forceful attitude but can be very good at their chosen work for their entire working lives, without their union some of these people are easy pickings, companies use the divide and rule tactic just as ruthlessly as governments. I'm realistic about unions, and there are bad things about them as well as good, however my experience of doing my job for the last 35 years has proved beyond all doubt that my best working years were and still are working for better companies with a unionised workforce, with sensible stewards able to look at a broad picture. Selection of stewards/reps is the key to good and mutually agreeable results, i've seen good stewards moderating a workforce when some wre unable to see the wood for the trees, getting them to give a little to get a little.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 12:38   Tanker strike - Pat

>>not all drivers have your ability or your forceful attitude << Then they need to grow a backbone and a pair of balls...Tskkk Pat       2

New Mon 26 Mar 12 14:36   Tanker strike - -

>> Then they need to grow a backbone and a pair of balls...Tskkk >> They don't need to, they got jobs in the right industry, joined the union and stuck together to keep it like that. Thankfully we're all different, you do it your way and i'll do it mine, so far mine has worked for me just as yours has worked for you. ''The John Lewis Partnership model is arguably the best in a market economy to get workers and management feel that they are part of the same team working for the same purpose'' I don't work for them, i work for a family owned big company, and those ethics and attitudes apply here, being unionised we have the benefit of collective agreements, but it doesn't stop there being a good rapport and co-operation care and mutual respect and yes trust existing in spades. Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 26 Mar 12 at 14:39       2

New Mon 26 Mar 12 12:53   Tanker strike - John H

>> my best working years were and still are working for better companies with a unionised workforce >> The John Lewis Partnership model is arguably the best in a market economy to get workers and management feel that they are part of the same team working for the same purpose, rather than the mistrust that exists in big corporate companies where the managers act for the shareholders and the unions act for the workforce. In the final analysis, the owners have choice not to run the business if does not suit them, and the workers too have the choice to not work for such owners. Choices, choices, choices, as Stu says in another thread.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 13:04   Tanker strike - Zero

>> I have no time for union leaders, even when time proves they told the truth, >> like Scargill. The trouble with union leaders is that they appear to show no interest in developing, modernising, or adapting to suit the times, technology or the longer term interests of the members. Like Arthur, who may have been telling the truth about pit closures but could have modernised the industry to match future energy requirements and saved some of his members jobs. In the end he just turned into a thieving (miners compensation scheme) scumbag I worked for 39 years, earned well, retired well without a sniff of union assistance.       4

New Mon 26 Mar 12 13:21   Tanker strike - Dutchie

Are you right that Athur Scargill is a thieving scumbag? The court said that he was entitled to the compensation scheme the law of the land.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:17   Tanker strike - Zero

>> Are you right that Athur Scargill is a thieving scumbag? The court said that he >> was entitled to the compensation scheme the law of the land. He stole his members compensation.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:30   Tanker strike - John H

Beware - He is alive, so unless he has been convicted to have done as you allege, he could sue for those comments.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:30   Tanker strike - Bromptonaut

>> He stole his members compensation. Is there a link to support that allegation Z? A couple of solicitors were, IIRC, convicted of such an offence but I cannot immediately find anything that fingers AS himself. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 26 Mar 12 at 16:31

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:41   Tanker strike - Zero

His union was fingered, and his union has to pay for his flat, so he is recieving at least,

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:43   Tanker strike - Bromptonaut

>> His union was fingered, and his union has to pay for his flat, so he >> is recieving at least, Ahh edging away now?? Is there a source for allegation against the Union?

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:49   Tanker strike - Zero

Sunday times 2005

New Mon 26 Mar 12 12:40   Tanker strike - Westpig

>> Its not inevitable a strike will happen and i hope it won't, the vote for >> industrial action is just another stage in the process, its a good weapon to go >> to the negotiating table with though, shows your members, who are the union at the >> end of the day, are united and prepared to act. I think the most well off elements of your trade (and I appreciate well qualified too), should be grateful for their lot and not be considering strike action in the middle of the worst recession we've had since the war. I agree (from my limited knowledge) that those at the other end of the spectrum are on limited wages and work long hours, but i'd see that as another way for the well paid in the industry to be thankful, not try to hold the country to ransom. The Bob Crow example with the tube train drivers is an excellent example of how to wind the country up unnecessarily...the haulage industry doesn't need to do the same.       2

New Mon 26 Mar 12 15:56   Tanker strike - Pat

Wise words Westpig...and exactly what I wanted to say but I got myself into lorry driver lingo and came out with the backbone bit;) Pat

New Mon 26 Mar 12 12:20   Tanker strike - Stuu

>>How long will it be before drivers are panic buying and filling up their cars every few miles?<< This morning. Tesco was twice as busy as normal, staff were chatting about it.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 12:27   Tanker strike - Runfer D'Hills

I panic bought last night. It'll need filling again by tomorrow night mind. :-(       1

New Mon 26 Mar 12 13:17   Tanker strike - Cliff Pope

If you must panic, panic early.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 13:32   Tanker strike - Runfer D'Hills

My wife has just returned from the supermarket run where she also needed fuel. Each pump had at least 6 vehicles queuing apparently. Everyone brimming their tanks.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 13:44   Tanker strike - Westpig

Thinking laterally here. If you have a diesel vehicle and were to get low on fuel because of a strike or panic buying and had access to a red diesel supply....could you fill up with red diesel ...and...inform Customs and Excise of how much you put in and be prepared to pay the extra tax?

New Mon 26 Mar 12 15:36   Tanker strike - rtj70

>> ...could you fill up with red diesel No because the red diesel will mark the internals of the engine and therefore you couldn't prove you didn't use it at other times either.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 15:57   Tanker strike - Pat

No, no, no no, no! It will be in there forever. Pat

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:04   Tanker strike - Bromptonaut

Vote overwhelmingly in favour of strike according to news feeds.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:31   Tanker strike - John H

>> Vote overwhelmingly in favour of strike according to news feeds. >> How many weeks minimum notice is needed to start action after a ballot?

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:40   Tanker strike - Bromptonaut

>> How many weeks minimum notice is needed to start action after a ballot? Seven days. Action must begin, at least in part, within 4 weeks though that can be extended by agreement - for example if negotiations are proceeding. The employer may of course challenge the ballot in the courts if they suspect any irregularity.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:41   Tanker strike - commerdriver

Interestingly two out of the seven distribution depots voted against

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:48   Tanker strike - Meldrew

They will probably be intimidated or bullied into striking though

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:30   Tanker strike - Fursty Ferret

>> >> ...could you fill up with red diesel >> >> No because the red diesel will mark the internals of the engine and therefore you >> couldn't prove you didn't use it at other times either. >> I think this is an urban legend that HMRC is not in a hurry to quash. Change the fuel filter, definitely, but it won't leave traces elsewhere.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:33   Tanker strike - Dutchie

Customs are nobody's friends wouldn't try it.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:36   Tanker strike - Meldrew

I'd be happier to take a considered view on this if I knew the gross and net salary of a tanker driver, working hours per week, is overtime compulsory or voluntary and that sort of thing. I understand there is element of T&Cs and Elf and Safety too - can anyone clarify please? Last edited by: Meldrew on Mon 26 Mar 12 at 16:37

New Mon 26 Mar 12 22:13   Tanker strike - Harleyman

>> I'd be happier to take a considered view on this if I knew the gross >> and net salary of a tanker driver, working hours per week, is overtime compulsory or >> voluntary and that sort of thing. I understand there is element of T&Cs and Elf >> and Safety too - can anyone clarify please? >> >> Hoyer, one of the biggest companies, claim that their drivers average £45K per annum. they also claim that only about 250 out of 650 of their drivers voted to strike. A few points about tanker driving; 1) They don't do nights away. They do, however, tend to work what most of us would call unsociable hours, and weekends; I would assume that their wage carries a premium to cover this. So do a lot of other HGV drivers though so it ain't exactly unique. 2) They deliver to garage forecourts and industrial premises, mostly on good roads and delivering to well-appointed, lit and level sites. Not up farm tracks, into the bottom of quarries or down narrow back lanes, and they don't have to plod through ankle-deep mud or cow muck to couple up to the tank. Whilst they naturally have to be experienced and capable drivers, I would suggest that their driving skills aren't exactly stretched in the general course of their daily work. It's also a relatively clean job by industry standards. 3) It goes without saying that H&S is an integral part of the job; but it's no more special than carrying flammable gases, poisons, acids or any other stuff that's subject to ADR regulations. I would stress that I don't begrudge the drivers a decent wage, but I cannot help but think that their union is using this to cause trouble in the wider sphere. Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 31 Mar 12 at 23:53       3

New Mon 26 Mar 12 22:54   Tanker strike - Dutchie

Why would the drivers go on stike?Are they going to lose salary or more insecurity doing their job.People don't vote to go on strike in a hurry.Not in this climate with high unemployement.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 09:43   Tanker strike - Westpig

>> People don't vote to go on strike in a hurry.Not in this climate >> with high unemployement. >> Some do. Look at the London Underground drivers.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 10:05   Tanker strike - sooty123

>> >> People don't vote to go on strike in a hurry.Not in this climate >> >> with high unemployement. >> >> >> >> Some do. Look at the London Underground drivers. >> They may well have gone on strike, but in a hurry?

New Tue 27 Mar 12 09:40   Tanker strike - Westpig

>> I would stress that I don't begrudge the drivers a decent wage, but I cannot >> help but think that their union is using this to cause trouble in the wider >> sphere. >> Covers my thoughts very well.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 09:49   Tanker strike - Dutchie

Always the unions fault how often have I heard that.The same old story.It takes two to start a fight how many managers are crap at their jobs.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 10:43   Tanker strike - Bromptonaut

>> Always the unions fault how often have I heard that.The same old story.It takes two >> to start a fight how many managers are crap at their jobs. That's what gets me Dutchie. Narrative in media is always same - 'militants holding the country to ransom'. Never 'employer who thinks he's got staff over barrell trying to cut wages/conditions'.       2

New Tue 27 Mar 12 10:52   Tanker strike - sooty123

>> >> Always the unions fault how often have I heard that.The same old story.It takes >> two >> >> to start a fight how many managers are crap at their jobs. >> >> That's what gets me Dutchie. Narrative in media is always same - 'militants holding the >> country to ransom'. Never 'employer who thinks he's got staff over barrell trying to cut >> wages/conditions'. >> Always the way, there's nearly always a narrative that the media follow. A certain way of putting things etc. Slighty OT, like for instance in the above link, why do the media always write 'Army' and 'soldier' when they mean 'Armed Forces' and 'service personnel' The Navy/RAF will be sending people too.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 11:46   Tanker strike - John H

>> >> Always the unions fault how often have I heard that.The same old story.It takes >> two >> >> to start a fight how many managers are crap at their jobs. >> >> That's what gets me Dutchie. Narrative in media is always same - 'militants holding the >> country to ransom'. Never 'employer who thinks he's got staff over barrell trying to cut >> wages/conditions'. >> On the contrary, how often do you see employers getting credit for providing the jobs that they do? Simple fact of economic life in our current market economy: In the private sector, there are too many workers for the jobs that are available. Employer has the option to offer or not offer you a job, and employee has the option to tell the employer where to stick i and try and find another one who will fund his/her attitude. At them moment, employer has the upper hand because he can find others who are willing to do the work at the t&c under offer, and the employee is the one who has to face the reality. If the employee thinks he/she can do a better job than the employer or the manager, why is he/she still working there? Fortunately, the unionised public sector is finally having to face up to the same reality that the private sector employee is already familiar with. The tanker drivers, if they go on strike, will also soon learn the lesson the hard way, just as the miners who followed Scargill did.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 12:01   Tanker strike - sooty123

>> Fortunately, the unionised public sector is finally having to face up to the same reality >> that the private sector employee is already familiar with. The tanker drivers, if they go >> on strike, will also soon learn the lesson the hard way, just as the miners >> who followed Scargill did. >> >> >> Reality, what do you mean? We don't know that, not all strikes end that way.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 12:23   Tanker strike - Zero

>> We don't know that, not all strikes end that way. Most do. I will guarantee that a union that persistently abuses its position will end up with no work for members. And hence no members.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 12:33   Tanker strike - sooty123

>> >> >> We don't know that, not all strikes end that way. >> >> Most do. I will guarantee that a union that persistently abuses its position will end >> up with no work for members. And hence no members. >> Over half really? Agree on the second part.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 12:28   Tanker strike - John H

>> Reality, what do you mean? >> If you have to ask that, it means either you are not an employer, or that you are not employed in the private sector. If, however, you are employed in the state sector, then don't worry, reality will soon bite you too and you will know the answer. >> We don't know that, not all strikes end that way. >> They do, once the army gets involved.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 12:32   Tanker strike - sooty123

>> >> Reality, what do you mean? >> >> >> >> If you have to ask that, it means either you are not an employer, or >> that you are not employed in the private sector. If, however, you are employed in >> the state sector, then don't worry, reality will soon bite you too and you will >> know the answer. Ah right all becomes clear. Speaking of 'reality' you've run out of ideas and a way to explain yourself. Just need to mention 'gold plated..' and you've got the grand slam. Rather than use tired cliches why not explain yourself? >> >> We don't know that, not all strikes end that way. >> >> >> >> They do, once the army gets involved. We don't know that'll happen either, even then the military get called in so rarely it would be hard to base your assumption on that.       1

New Tue 27 Mar 12 22:59   Tanker strike - Mr. Ecs

"just as the miners who followed Scargill did." Miners didn't ballot for that strike. The tanker drivers have.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:37   Tanker strike - Fursty Ferret

>> Customs are nobody's friends wouldn't try it. >> No intention of doing so! Besides which, I've filled the bath with Super Unleaded so won't run short for a while.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 16:41   Tanker strike - Dutchie

Good thinking Unleaded would have been fine.>;)

New Mon 26 Mar 12 17:03   Tanker strike - bathtub tom

>>Besides which, I've filled the bath with Super Unleaded so won't run short for a while. You don't need the coal now the weather's warmed up.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 21:17   Tanker strike - RattleandSmoke

Just brimmed the car while fuel is still 137.9p, I expect it to rise sharply in the next few days when people start to panic buy.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 00:46   Tanker strike - VxFan

>> Just brimmed the car while fuel is still 137.9p, I expect it to rise sharply >> in the next few days when people start to panic buy. But Rattle, you don't do many miles a month (unless your situation has recently changed?), so if anything, you're the one who's panic buying and depriving those people who actually need fuel. Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 27 Mar 12 at 00:47       1

New Tue 27 Mar 12 11:31   Tanker strike - RattleandSmoke

Do about 130-150 a week at the moment because of driving to College (17 miles round trip). One thing I have learnt is if you don't buy items which could be in short supply as soon as there is a problem you regret. I didn't stock up on hard drives even though I know there was a supply problem, I have regretted it every since as it has caused me problems.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 21:36   Tanker strike - teabelly

>> Thinking laterally here. >> >> If you have a diesel vehicle and were to get low on fuel because of >> a strike or panic buying and had access to a red diesel supply....could you fill >> up with red diesel >> ...and...inform Customs and Excise of how much you put in and be prepared to pay >> the extra tax? >> You wouldn't use red. You'd use normal fresh veg oil/treated veg oil if you car doesn't like 100% which wouldn't needn't any tax paid as it is exempt for the first 2500 litres each year. I heard that use of standard biodiesel removes the red tracing agent. No one has corroborated the information though!

New Mon 26 Mar 12 22:41   Tanker strike - rtj70

>> You'd use normal fresh veg oil/treated veg oil if you car doesn't like 100% So you'd use veg oil in a £30k car?

New Mon 26 Mar 12 22:51   Tanker strike - CGNorwich

"So you'd use veg oil in a £30k car?" only extra virgin olive surely

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:07   Tanker strike - rtj70

I wonder how quickly you could train a good HGV driver for this. There are many more HGV drivers than tanker drivers and I'm sure they'd relish to chance of £45k pa on average. I get the feeling this is more of a union power thing than it is about the tanker drivers.       1

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:21   Tanker strike - CGNorwich

The vote was by Company and of the seven major companies involved two voted firmly against the strike. What makes conditions in these two companies acceptable to their drivers? Turners 94.4 per cent in favour on a turnout of 81.8 per cent. Norbert Dentressangle 74.8 per cent in favour on a turnout of 71.3 per cent. Wincanton 68.4 per cent in favour on a turnout of 71.9 per cent. BP 60.2 per cent in favour on a turnout of 85.8 per cent. Hoyer 59.7 per cent in favour on a turnout of 79.7 per cent. DHL drivers voted against strike action (44.6 per cent), but voted in favour of action short of a strike (53 per cent). Suckling voted against strike action (85 per cent) and action short of strike (76 per cent).

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:21   Tanker strike - Dutchie

Problaby very quick ,a lorry is a lorry just different cargo.Any dispute has got to be resolved by talking before it gets out of hand.I dont know much about Hoyer is it a German company? The drivers salary is excellent.I still get the feeling that they are going to lose money,different contracts etc.Let's hope talks can prevent a strike the country is in enough trouble.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:34   Tanker strike - rtj70

I hope a strike is avoided. But if they strike I think the drivers will lose out. Their assumption is they will shutdown fuel supply and the country will suffer and it probably will. And then something will be put in place to avoid a repeat of this being possible. Net result is they will probably not have such highly paid jobs. So I hope there is no strike. But if there is one I hope the tanker drivers lose out in the longer term pay wise. They are well paid for their services. I bet a few on here wouldn't mind their wages and might not need much training to get the jobs. This is not as skilled as the transporters is it. Apart from it being flammable it's no different to say transporting milk or other liquids.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:35   Tanker strike - Harleyman

>> I get the feeling this is more of a union power thing than it is >> about the tanker drivers. >> Read what Wikipedia has to say about Len McCluskey, general secretary of Unite. He's organised more strikes than a match factory. Says it all really.       1

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:53   Tanker strike - Zero

>> Read what Wikipedia has to say about Len McCluskey, general secretary of Unite. >> >> He's organised more strikes than a match factory. Says it all really. > He not won many tho, like matches they fizzle out and burn fingers.       1

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:43   Tanker strike - -

>> I wonder how quickly you could train a good HGV driver for this. About a fortnight would do it, so long as you have good stock to start with, dwindling supply of those. Its not quite the same thing but i used to train on one of the transporter companies i worked for, the problem is not all drivers are up to the mark or have the aptitude for the job, so out of 10 drivers who completed their training (many dropped out or were untrainable*) you might well only have 1 or 2 of those still doing the job after 12 months...they all wanted the money but not the hard work and responsibility and constant vigilance required to be maintained at all times, some left some did so much damage they were uneconomic. One memorable chap took to transporter loading like a duck to water, unfortunately he couldn't drive a truck to save his life (i'd like a chat with the geezer who passed him), i refused to train him after one day on the road, my old boss trained him expressing his displeasure with me...about a month or so later the bloke stuffed a loaded transporter through a low bridge at about 50mph near Wakefield, that cost a pretty penny in damages and railway compo. Would you want a bloke like that running round with 5000 galls of unleaded sloshing about, blowed if i would regardless how cheap he was. ''There are many more HGV drivers than tanker drivers and I'm sure they'd relish to chance of £45k pa on average.'' I'll correct that, there are many more 'licence holders' than tanker drivers...a test pass doth not a HGV driver make, that takes years and some never attain the rank.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:51   Tanker strike - Zero

I would guess, and its only a guess, that there is far more hard work and skill in loading, driving and unloading a car transporter, than a tanker.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:58   Tanker strike - rtj70

>> I would guess, and its only a guess, that there is far more hard work and skill in loading, >> driving and unloading a car transporter, than a tanker. Absolutely. And avoiding branches on particular routes that might damage cars. Tankers are a bit more robust. I think the tanker drivers will be in for a shock if they strike. They will quite likely lose out in the longer term... financially for sure but actual jobs too. So is there an actual 'section' of the Union for fuel tanker drivers? Or will the strike effect the milk on my cereals too?

New Tue 27 Mar 12 00:08   Tanker strike - -

>> I would guess, and its only a guess, that there is far more hard work >> and skill in loading, driving and unloading a car transporter, than a tanker. >> As you know i made the jump from transporters to tankers (with a bit of easy agency in between to recover as i was more exhausted or damaged than i realised), i now drive pressurised blowing tanks with foodstuffs, so minimal load movement and i tip artic tanks up to 5 rams up to shift the load unlike the liquid tankers. The excellent training was a fortnight, same as the cars, and it took me 6 months to really feel competent doing my new job, which i like to do well seeing as i'm well renumerated and the company is good for all reasons. I'm still learning though so like the cars i expect it will take 3 or more years before i become fully skilled in the job. Undoubtably the car transporters is harder work you are right there, more hands on, filthy dirty and you get hurt quite regularly, not a H&S thing its just the nature of the job if you can't take the odd clout, ripped/crushed nail etc its not a job for you. Both jobs though require concentration and lack of that, clumsiness or miscalculation or simply couldn't give a damn will result in damage and danger...which might be expensive on cars but possibly far more dangerous for everyone on tanks, either pressurised tipping type or liquid flammable/chemical...neither are a job you want idiots or chancers doing.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 00:21   Tanker strike - rtj70

But I'm sure there's plenty of non-idiots ready to get these jobs. All it takes is to get a trained work-force and then cancel/switch contracts. Could be a lot of tanker drivers regretting voting for a strike. I know strikes are legal etc. but I am sure there are legal means to make changes. And if is effects everyone then national security and all sorts might be brought up and so the legal element might be moot. In fact this might make it necessary to make changes to the detriment of the tanker drivers. So I hope they see sense. And if they don't I hope they all end up stuffed and other drivers get well paid tanker jobs. Sorry but the economy can do without this. Selfishness or unions to blame.       1

New Tue 27 Mar 12 00:42   Tanker strike - -

>> So I hope they see sense. And if they don't I hope they all end >> up stuffed and other drivers get well paid tanker jobs. I don't think you'll get your wish even if the strike goes ahead. I also don't think the strike will go ahead either, there will be some rather more urgent talks now that the required vote is out of the way and a compromise reached....which is how it should be. Selfishness is one way to look at it, i wouldn't take kindly to having my contract changed to me severe detriment and have taken voluntary redundancy in the past when this has happened...i met up with various members of management years later who to a man expressed regret at the teams they lost when the changes happened, 90% of us went...the job never ran the same again. These drivers have good jobs with hard won benefits over many years of negotiation, drivers in other parts of the industry who failed to stick together have seen their jobs diminish. Most of the drivers on contract distribution companies would welcome being taken under the oil companies direct employ, good pay increases and better pensions all round.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 00:52   Tanker strike - rtj70

Well there are others with jobs that inevitably have consequences too. I think if there is a strike over fuel deliveries then that is one area where changes will be needed. Not quite the same but if I didn't care about consequences I could have disrupted financial payments for banks, fresh water supply for a region/country.... I get paid in IT to implement and improve on systems for the benefit of the customer. The customer could be a bank, electric company, water company, the Government etc. Whilst working on these systems I have admin access... I could turn things off if I wanted. But I am security cleared. But what if I did something (I'm not going to and the example I give I couldn't) to the water supply of Wales? I'm not threatening anything and have no ability to do so... what what if I did? That of course is black mail. But threatening to stop fuel is blackmail. Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 27 Mar 12 at 00:54       1

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:56   Tanker strike - rtj70

But I assume a good driver of say milk tankers could be trained to drive the fuel tankers easily. The danger for the tanker drivers is they find the fuel companies take deliveries in house again and don't use the outsourced companies.... and pay goes down a bit. It's not as if the stoppage could go on and impact like the miners strike - it's only transportation of fuel and not production. The impact will be on the tanker drivers. And the drivers need to strike for a good number of days to make things bite like they did in 2000. So they then lose out on pay for living, mortgages etc. A bit of a gamble and the miners lost out big time in the 80s. ... could get some drivers in from other countries too?       1

New Tue 27 Mar 12 01:11   Tanker strike - Harleyman

...a test pass doth >> not a HGV driver make, that takes years and some never attain the rank. >> >> >> That's very true; the problem with fuel tankers until quite recently was actually getting your foot in the door. Despite the fact that closed shops are no longer legal that in effect was what they were. Since the transfer of work to logistics companies the drivers have actually had to work a bit harder and that hasn't gone down well either. As for suitability, I've found the same percentage rates as GB even for a fairly run-of-the-mill job like multi-drop parcels work, and the reasons for drop-out were quite similar too. Had one guy when I managed Nightfreight at Stevenage who was much loved by his customers and colleagues; helpful, friendly, hard-working and consciencious but an absolute liability once he got behind the wheel. Going forwards he wasn't too bad, but rear underrun bars never lasted more than a week without needing attention from the workshop and every day the truck came back with another dent on it; in the end he had to go. The union's claim that H&S is being affected is realistically a bit of a red herring designed to deflect public attention away from the inescapable fact that this is only partly about money, but far more about unions flexing their muscles to remind the government that they still have influence. Go to any refinery and you'll find that their safety procedures are impeccable; they have to be or else the consequences can be dreadful. One last comment, and I apologise for stereotyping, but why is it that militant union leaders always seem to be whining Scousers like McCluskey or sullen Londoners like Bob Crow? One thing the pair have in common BTW is that they were both full-time union workers at a relatively early age; bit ironic considering their well-known dislike of career politicians.       1

New Tue 27 Mar 12 07:19   Tanker strike - Pat

>>I'll correct that, there are many more 'licence holders' than tanker drivers...a test pass doth not a HGV driver make, that takes years and some never attain the rank. << Whilst that statement may well have been true 20 years ago it certainly isn’t, nearly as much so, now. The ‘old school’ drivers among us would all like to think this is still the case. It makes us a breed apart, unique, and something to be looked up to. It’s the reason drivers have never been united in their quest for better wages and conditions. They have to have a pecking order and those lower down have to look up to those above. Tanker and transporter drivers are simply another section of the wide and diverse area covered by the term lorry driver. Give either of them, who have never done any other sort of haulage work, a lorry and trailer and send them out for a month on general haulage where you have to be able to secure absolutely anything on a trailer safely, and they would be just as much as a liability as an untrained tanker/transporter driver. A typical week can range from collect 3 tractors/ a load of bright steel/shiny chipboard/top hats (zinc)/ the stands from Aintree after the Grand National and so it goes on. The skill is in the ability to know how to load and secure anything to get it there safely. It was a challenge I loved! For the last four years new lorry drivers have to have some training in this before they can pass their test. It comes in four parts just for them to be allowed on the road, and quite right too. Yes, GB and Harleyman were both thrown a set of keys and like me, and told to get on with it all those years ago. We did get on with it and we learned the hard way, but we didn’t learn the safe way. Thankfully that has changed and new drivers now come into the industry far better equipped than we did. Sadly this has resulted in a vast majority of ‘old school’ drivers feeling threatened and the myth that no-one else can do the job they do, is one often heard in any transport café! It is certainly possible to train 'out of work' drivers (and there are many very experienced ones) to do a tanker drivers job. Most would welcome the opportunity to earn £45000 per year before overtime for 12 hour shifts, who wouldn’t? The Industry average earnings are just half of that. Unite state that this isn’t about pay but about safety. Wincanton don’t see it that way. >> Mr Kingshott said Wincanton voluntarily joined a new Unite forum last December, set up to help establish industry-wide standards on safety and training. The meetings were "hijacked" by militant union bosses keen to attack pay and other terms at the company, he said.<< The whole idea from Unite of this Industry Wide Forum is to be able to hold the whole country to ransom at will, whenever they see fit by representing them as one unit. Their insistence that it isn’t about pay is misleading, as indeed it is meant to be. Some more ‘facts’ here: tinyurl.com/cwwsa5j Pat Last edited by: pda on Tue 27 Mar 12 at 07:22       1

New Tue 27 Mar 12 11:14   Tanker strike - -

>> Whilst that statement may well have been true 20 years ago it certainly isn’t, nearly >> as much so, now. please enlighten me, judging by the driving standards i regularly see, particularly the frankly appalling standards of close manoeuvering i see regularly, and that includes many older drivers who may or may not have years under their belts, i remain unconvinced >> The ‘old school’ drivers among us would all like to think this is still the >> case. It makes us a breed apart, unique, and something to be looked up to. Do you mean time served and competent drivers might just actually know more about the job than someone who's been taught the basics in the approved method. When i started as now i learned far more from the previous generation of drivers than i could have learned or read from some manual, i luckily found a mentor who taught me the ropes, including which were proper cafe's..now mostly gone, if young drivers have any sense at all they will seek to learn from other drivers they work with who have been doing the job properly for years. >> It’s the reason drivers have never been united in their quest for better wages and >> conditions. Petty jealousies have always been our problem, read here, them and us attitude, well them had the good sense to stick together and not allow their industry to go down the road of how cheap can we go. Its a peculiarly British thing like envy of those who have a better lifestyle, instead of wanting to attain better thereby giving something to aim for or jobs to try and attain, some want to see the better jobs brought down to subsistence levels, classic socialist dogma, which never works in practice...apparatchiks and proletariat. >> Give either of them, who have never done any other sort of haulage work, a >> lorry and trailer and send them out for a month on general haulage where you >> have to be able to secure absolutely anything on a trailer safely, and they would >> be just as much as a liability as an untrained tanker/transporter driver. Quite agree, but you can hardly blame transporter or tanker drivers for the poor pay in general haulage, haulage drivers failed to stick together, they can't even do this in their own yard, what hope as an industry. >> For the last four years new lorry drivers have to have some training in this >> before they can pass their test. It comes in four parts just for them to >> be allowed on the road, and quite right too. Theorised basic training, yes it has its place as a grounding. >> Sadly this has resulted in a vast majority of ‘old school’ drivers feeling threatened and >> the myth that no-one else can do the job they do, Couldn't be further from the truth, in practice they are more employable than ever, the company i work for only employs old school drivers, old school in attitude not age though that invariably means older staff...now this is where your and my attitudes differ...old school has no age limits, our young drivers are old school in attitude and capability, one i'm thinking of as we speak is respectful to all, punctual, takes a huge pride in his work, presentation, vehicle care etc, he's got a very good job and knows it and takes good care to keep it that way. >> It is certainly possible to train 'out of work' drivers (and there are many very >> experienced ones) to do a tanker drivers job. As my post above, not all drivers have the correct aptitude or attitude for truck driving, it never will be a 9 to 5 job, it will always require some skill and dedication to do the job well. >> Most would welcome the opportunity to earn £45000 per year before overtime for 12 hour shifts, who wouldn’t? >> The Industry average earnings are just half of that. Again thats hardly the fault of the tanker drivers though i doubt £45k before or without overtime, the rest of the industry could have stuck together, negotiated by collective bargaining and been a lot better off than they are now, by your own admission you didn't want that, look where it got general haulage drivers. The trouble with envy of good salaries is that those who covet don't always want the work and commitment to get those jobs and salaries, i didn't get onto the better transporter work till i'd put years in on scabby little jobs where the pay was frankly dreadful for the hours and work involved. Call it my investment, it paid dividends in the end, though the job was never easy and i didn't manage to get onto the highest paying two companies....(but that didn't stop us supporting those two when they were in dispute, unanimous vote involved there). As an example i would get stitched up every Friday by one particular office bod (now back on the road like many), he would have me doing multi drop round the home counties in the morning and then at about 3pm would give me a load of renters from Surrey/Bucks into Central London, usually Kings Cross...the load would be 7/8 cars and the second load so no bonus at all...the job would put 4+ hours on my day being Friday pm and i would earn the grand total of £3.50 for doing so, this around 20 years ago...meanwhile his cronies, who later backstabbed him (i could have but didn't and wouldn't as it would have brought me down to his level)when some of us jumped ship, would, allocated by him, slip two full loads in early or three for the big bonus and be parked up by 4pm....that sort of thing has always gone on as you know full well. Now i know that most general and haulage drivers would have told them to get stuffed, and some others would have kissed the right backsides to get out of it, but because i stuck with it i wasn't refusing the job which knowing our ex driver (poacher turned gamekeeper) transport manager would have seen me fired instantly, i've never kissed backsides so had no drinky poos mates in the office and never wanted them. So i stuck with it until a good opportunity to jump ship arose, it kept my good work record in the industry therefore my reputation intact, and i reaped the benefits aftewards, the backstabbers i mentioned are all out of the industry now. I'm no different to thousands of other drivers who managed to get onto the good jobs eventually, i invested time, took abuse and hard work to get there. The new breed don't want to do this, they want it on a plate, nice and clean, no work involved, shiny big trucks etc...they want to go in at the top instead of earn their way up. Envy and not looking at the big picture is what keeps our industry back, and the failure to stick together is the reason truck drivers have to work 70 hours to earn £10k less than a train driver doing 39.       1

New Tue 27 Mar 12 11:37   Tanker strike - Pat

I just knew you would think my views were aimed at you personally GB, that's why I wrote it very carefully in the hope you would understand that they wasn't. We all managed to get good jobs eventually, and took the same amount of stick as you on the way there but this thread isn't about that. >>The new breed don't want to do this, they want it on a plate, nice and clean, no work involved, shiny big trucks etc...they want to go in at the top instead of earn their way up. << The new breed are not quite as bad as you imagine and come into this now with practical tests to pass (not the periodic DCPC, but the Initial DCPC) and IMHO are quite right to expect better conditions than we had 30 years ago...it's called progress. However they are prepared to work hard, put the hours in and finance their own ongoing training. Not a bad work ethic overall, I think. The main difference between you and I, GB, is that I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of my years in haulage, even the bad times. It always seems that you resented yours. Now, what are your thoughts on the link I gave and Wincantons stance? Pat

New Tue 27 Mar 12 12:00   Tanker strike - -

>> It always seems that you resented yours. Not really, it paid me well overall, i had to work damned hard though as have all drivers who have made reasonable livings. Would i do it again...yes though differently as would we all no doubt, old heads on young shoulders and all that. >> Now, what are your thoughts on the link I gave and Wincantons stance? Both spinning their own stories obviously as is the modern way, so all statements taken with a huge pinch. In these circumstances all involved will seek to make their position the more just and moral and paint the other party as obstinate, there's probably some truth in both side's arguments, and they'll probably meet in the middle...hopefully. Both will try to get the media to see their side, this is where the employers have the advantage for obvious reasons. By the way i never thought your comments were aimed at me...its in your interests to make out all the training you do is constructive...kerching..:-) Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 27 Mar 12 at 12:01

New Tue 27 Mar 12 12:09   Tanker strike - Pat

Good post GB...pity about the last cheap jibe. It's one I hear on a regular basis but it's not me who does the Initial DCPC training, it's the driving schools! BUT, if it was surely it's to be commended rather than knocked that I have managed to start my own small business after being forced to give up a job I love? Far better than becoming a benefit scrounger, surely. Pat

New Tue 27 Mar 12 12:13   Tanker strike - -

>> Good post GB...pity about the last cheap jibe. did you miss the smiley Pat? I'm pleased you've got a business going in ongoing training, far better someone who's been at the coal face their whole lives imo than someone who's career has been mostly instructing.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 12:14   Tanker strike - Pat

I didn't miss the smiley..... Pat

New Tue 27 Mar 12 12:32   Tanker strike - swiss tony

If I can dare get between Pat and Gordon..... IMHO, there is no better way of learning than doing. You can give me reams of notes, masses of videos, but I won't get the gist of something until I try it... In my industry, uni-grads have come into the trade and changed things, and almost without fail, those ideas have made the job harder, because the theory and practice as to the best way of doing things are poles apart. What I am trying to say is, whilst theory based training has its place, until you get down and dirty, you have often been taught loads, and learnt nothing. Last edited by: swiss tony on Tue 27 Mar 12 at 12:33

New Tue 27 Mar 12 13:10   Tanker strike - -

>> What I am trying to say is, whilst theory based training has its place, until >> you get down and dirty, you have often been taught loads, and learnt nothing. Very true, but also true that old hands like meself can benefit from a few days in the classroom discussing the job and changes that have happened....especially when we get full pay to do so...;) We get brought up to speed on legislation changes, which we often get half baked drivers opinion impressions of otherwise, a lot of the stuff seems obvious and teaching you how to suck eggs,eg the video presentation to make drivers think about the reasons for rollovers, then you realise not all drivers will have driven vehicles that are unstable, high sided whilst light or with high CoG regularly, we can all learn something. I agree with your point where it concerns trying to stuff too much theory training into a new drivers head, my recent job change saw my head spinning so much was there to take in, it all went in far better with the training being out on the road, the same in a classroom would mostly have passed me by...you can't beat actually feeling the effects of operating equipment, and take on board the noise, vibration and potential for danger.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 13:41   Tanker strike - swiss tony

>> Very true, but also true that old hands like meself can benefit from a few >> days in the classroom discussing the job and changes that have happened....especially when we get full pay to do so...;) >> Oh yes.... It does work both ways, old hands can, and do, get complacent.... we all need to learn new tricks (and be reminded of old ones) from time to time.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:33   Tanker strike - teabelly

Or treated veg oil ie properly made biodiesel! I don't know anyone stupid enough to pay 30k for a diesel car when you can get the same thing at a few years old for a fraction of that.

New Mon 26 Mar 12 23:35   Tanker strike - rtj70

So you'd put veg oil in a £20k diesel still under warranty too? I think I'd avoid buying any second hand car from you :-)

New Tue 27 Mar 12 09:56   Tanker strike - Dutchie

Avoid like the plague.>:)

New Tue 27 Mar 12 12:57   Tanker strike - rtj70

With the supermarkets being big sellers of fuel now and probably relying on the likes of Wincanton I could see a scenario where say Tesco decides to employ their own tanker drivers with their terms and conditions and insist they are not union members. Then where would the existing tanker drivers find themselves. It might not happen overnight but it could happen.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 13:54   Tanker strike - VxFan

>> I could see a scenario where say Tesco decides to employ their own tanker drivers Wonder if they'll do home deliveries?

New Tue 27 Mar 12 17:15   Tanker strike - teabelly

>> So you'd put veg oil in a £20k diesel still under warranty too? I think >> I'd avoid buying any second hand car from you :-) >> It will be a cold day in hell before I bought a clunking rattling diesel. Dreadful things! Give me a quiet petrol car any day :-) If diesel goes like petrol then it will already start to have biodiesel in it. Petrol has already been moved up to a 10% ethanol mix.       1

New Tue 27 Mar 12 14:54   Tanker strike - Zero

>> I panic bought last night. It'll need filling again by tomorrow night mind. >> >> :-( You panic buyers make me want to vomit. The slightest hint that your pathetic " I am more important than you" lives might be in the slightest bit disrupted, off you all rush like wide eyes does with no balls in the face of wolves. I have just spent 30 minutes in a queue to get some fuel, behind a bunch of useless pathetic cowering wimps all ready to be mugged by the loud brash playground bully with his toothless threats. Still I managed to squeeze two litres in Last edited by: Zero on Tue 27 Mar 12 at 14:54       3

New Tue 27 Mar 12 15:07   Tanker strike - Crankcase

>> you all rush like wide eyes does with no balls Natural history not your strong point, Mr Z? :) Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 27 Mar 12 at 15:07

New Tue 27 Mar 12 15:11   Tanker strike - Clk Sec

I've just come back from my local filling station and was surprised to find only one other car on the forecourt. The cheapest brimming it's had for a few years, at a modest £36.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 15:22   Tanker strike - John H

>> Natural history not your strong point, Mr Z? >> >> :) >> I think he was using tautology (or was it a pleonasm?), deliberately.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 15:31   Tanker strike - FocalPoint

"I think he was using tautology (or was it a pleonasm?)" Arguable. Given that the lack of balls alluded to was supposed to give the statement a bit more weight, the fact that does, being female, don't have them and you wouldn't expect them to, rather detracts from the effect. I would describe Mr Z's choice of words as a bit of a balls-up.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 16:32   Tanker strike - Zero

I may argue the point when i get round to it

New Tue 27 Mar 12 16:40   Tanker strike - Pat

I will tell you what I've told many a lorry driver over the years FP;) I may be female but I do have balls....they are just higher up and wider apart than yours. * I would never have got away with that on HJ* :) Pat       1

New Tue 27 Mar 12 17:21   Tanker strike - FocalPoint

"...they are just higher up and wider apart than yours." And a bit bigger, I can vouch for that. So that's what you call them.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 18:52   Tanker strike - Runfer D'Hills

Panic bought again tonight. Just the £50's worth to top 'er off. Very calming it was too.

New Tue 27 Mar 12 20:23   Tanker strike - Fullchat

Hard to argue this logic...... Women always say that giving birth is way more painful then a guy getting kicked in the nuts. Here is proof that they are wrong. A year or so after giving birth a women will often say "it would be nice to have another kid". You never hear a guy say " I would like another kick in the nuts". Case closed.       6

New Wed 28 Mar 12 10:35   Tanker strike - L'escargot

>> I may be female but I do have balls....they are just higher up and wider >> apart than yours. They might not be when you reach a ripe old age. ;-)       3

New Wed 28 Mar 12 11:03   Tanker strike - sooty123

Contingency planning continues. 'There are plans to put military personnel through an eight-day training course to enable them to take the place of striking drivers behind the wheel of commercial tankers. The BBC has learned that more than 80 "highly qualified" drivers from the Royal Air Force will begin initial training by one oil haulage firm on Wednesday. ' www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17533151

New Wed 28 Mar 12 11:23   Tanker strike - diddy1234

wont the strike be over after the RAF have spent 8 days training ? Health and Safety rules again. lol

New Wed 28 Mar 12 11:39   Tanker strike - sooty123

Not unless the strike is more than 8 days away ;)

New Wed 28 Mar 12 11:44   Tanker strike - Meldrew

BBC News suggestion this morning to the effect that certain fuel stations will be kept stocked but sales will only be to "essential users", however that may be defined and controlled.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 11:54   Tanker strike - sooty123

Didn't they do that last time?

New Wed 28 Mar 12 12:01   Tanker strike - diddy1234

yep. £10 limit I think it was. I didn't bother filling up / panic buy last time but I was glad when the strike ended as my fuel light had just come on. I was just determined to live as normal though and not be swayed by this. From a conspiracy point of view, the business year is coming to an end and the government are urging people to fill up their cars before hand. Nice extra revenue for the government. Also just how limp wristed is the government, if a government spokesperson is suggesting filling up our cars it means they are too afraid to flex their muscles.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 12:06   Tanker strike - Zero

The missus is classed as an essential user, she was last time anyway.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 12:13   Tanker strike - Fenlander

>>>missus is classed as an essential user.. Same here for her car and nothing to do with police, fire or nursing. I'll put £50 of diesel in the C5 today and that'll see me into May.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 12:19   Tanker strike - Runfer D'Hills

Reckon I could be stuffed. I can't claim to be an essential user but I need to fill up at least 3 times a week to do my job. Public transport not an option due to the amount of kit I need with me. All very well these people striking for better terms for themselves but they impact on the incomes of those who are not in a position to help them resolve their grievances. Thanks guys !

New Wed 28 Mar 12 19:23   Tanker strike - Robin O'Reliant

>> Reckon I could be stuffed. I can't claim to be an essential user but I >> need to fill up at least 3 times a week to do my job. Public >> transport not an option due to the amount of kit I need with me. >> I'm in the same position, though I can stretch to seven days with a full tank. Self-Employment means no work, no money. If they are going to strike at least they could have had the decency to do it before the end of the tax year to get this years income down rather than next.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 12:17   Tanker strike - sooty123

Who defined her as that?

New Wed 28 Mar 12 12:19   Tanker strike - Fenlander

If you're asking me Sooty sady I can't go anywhere near answering that... and as Zero is so dammed good at adding 2 + 2 I'd ask he didn't speculate!

New Wed 28 Mar 12 12:37   Tanker strike - sooty123

Yes it was, I didn't mean what job your wife had, just which part of government defines who is an essential user.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 17:19   Tanker strike - Zero

>> Who defined her as that? She is a Community Nurse, and the NHS defined her as such.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 12:43   Tanker strike - Pat

Reminds me of a lorry driver anecdote:) There is a tea bar in a lay by on a road not far from me and the lady behind the counter is known nation wide as saggyt*ts. I've never met a driver who dare call her that to her face though! Pat

New Wed 28 Mar 12 13:02   Tanker strike - Dutchie

Brother lives near a health swimming complex.Nice place sauna's etc.Mixed sauna's in the nude.Plenty of saggy t*ts and balls.>:)

New Wed 28 Mar 12 13:03   Tanker strike - Zero

I have always kind of admired Cameron for his intellect, and his morals and his general stance on life. He has just said we should "Panic Buy" his precise words were "It would be sensible to top up" I have concluded he is a brainless p rick.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 13:09   Tanker strike - sooty123

Maybe it's a cunning bluff, people do the opposite to what they're told...

New Wed 28 Mar 12 13:16   Tanker strike - Slidingpillar

Last time - when folk were 'panic buying' very little fuel was leaving the depots. This time, we're a week or more off from a possible strike, so in theory plenty of time to shift the fuel. I got caught out last time as I habitually go from full to empty, and was a day off my normal filling point. Had the tank been near full I'd have got through the strike and then some as the then car had a huge tank). I did have some fuel in cans (diesel so legal) but gave that to my brother as he has to use a car and is a fairly high mileage user. Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Wed 28 Mar 12 at 13:17

New Wed 28 Mar 12 14:02   Tanker strike - rtj70

I can't help but wonder if the government is taking a gamble by getting the panic buying happen before there is a fuel shortage. And I can see logic and it could work/help. If everyone over the next week or so tops up their fuel tanks then come strike time a lot of cars will be mostly full. The petrol stations can be refilled before the strike happens so drivers like Humph can still get his fuel. And the Government has just got a nice windfall in additional duty and VAT on fuel. And the strike might not have quite the impact if petrol station tanks are full.... but the tanker might get some overtime over the next week or so being a downside. If people start panic buying when the fuel supply is restricted then things will end up like in 2000. How many people who post on this forum on a regular basis currently has a car with a nearly empty fuel tank? Mine is full because of a holiday at the weekend so driving 300 miles or more between Friday and Monday guaranteed.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 14:07   Tanker strike - Stuu

My wifes car last two weeks on a full tank, sometimes three, so we will brim hers tonight and it will last her quite a while. My car unfortunately wont, so ill brim it when I can and if it ends up I get to running out and cant refuel, ill just stay at home. Mine will only do 300 miles to a tank as the tank is just 8 gallons. Im going to brim it two days before the strike begins and try not to use it.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 14:06   Tanker strike - Armel Coussine

>> I have concluded he is a brainless p rick. Yes, it occurred to me too that the PM's advice might cause widespread panic buying. It doesn't 'feel' to me as if there will be a long, gruelling strike, but even I am not always right. So on the way back from this morning's shopping trip, after consulting herself, I queued for five minutes and squeezed 20 litres into the car. Bit sad really. Put it through the carwash the other evening while waiting for a grandchild to come out of drama class in some hideyhole on the Surrey border. Got a special offer 7 quid wash for half price and even remembered to take the bit of clothes hanger out of the wireless aerial hole. Car and wheels now shiny bringing parking scrapes into prominence. Time to attend to the interior which is very like a builder's skip at the moment.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 14:21   Tanker strike - rtj70

>> Yes, it occurred to me too that the PM's advice might cause widespread panic buying. Except the fuel isn't about to run out this time... so no need to queue for ages to fill up. But worth filling up just in case. I will (if possible) refill my car after the trip at the weekend. But I always make sure it is full from the start of the month. I have a fuel card but repay for private use as a percentage of total fuel spend in a month based on the ratio private vs total miles for that month.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 15:07   Tanker strike - Dutchie

PM is telling people to stock up with fuel.He know's what he is doing,have the Jerry cans ready. Petrol stations soon be running out no panick? >:)

New Wed 28 Mar 12 15:59   Tanker strike - movilogo

When is the strike starting from? In Guardian I saw that PM has said union had to give at least 7 days notice.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 16:04   Tanker strike - FocalPoint

"When is the strike starting from?" AFAIK no date has yet been announced. As regards the issue of panic-buying being stoked by the PM and others, perhaps there is a little more subtlety here than Z thinks - along the lines of "let's do the panic now, when there is no actual shortage, rather than when a strike is upon us." Perhaps a bit of panic now might mean less later. And yes, I queued for five minutes this afternoon, having less than 45 miles' worth in the tank. Probably things are worse in the evenings. At least half the pumps/tanks on the forecourt were empty. Last edited by: FocalPoint on Wed 28 Mar 12 at 16:07

New Wed 28 Mar 12 16:14   Tanker strike - Dutchie

Can't blame anybody topping up with fuel in case.The best thing for politicians to keep their mouth shut.Nothing has been decided yet by the workers /union.And they have to give 7 days notice for a offical strike.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 16:20   Tanker strike - Roger.

Best thing is always for most politicians to keep their mouths shut, all the time.       2

New Wed 28 Mar 12 16:28   Tanker strike - movilogo

Well, Labour leader has kept his mouth shut (by not criticizing the union) and he is still being criticized by public for this!

New Wed 28 Mar 12 17:44   Tanker strike - R.P.

And NuLabour were well and truly wrong footed by the fuel blockades in so many ways...

New Wed 28 Mar 12 18:18   Tanker strike - Dave_

>> Perhaps a bit of panic now might mean less later. The queue for the 16 pumps at Morrisons was out onto the road this afternoon. The 4-pump BP station in town was deserted, so I topped up there for exactly the reason FocalPoint gives. The BP's 2p/litre dearer. Even when they're panic-buying around here, they like a bargain...

New Wed 28 Mar 12 19:44   Tanker strike - Manatee

>> I have always kind of admired Cameron for his intellect, and his morals and his >> general stance on life. >> >> He has just said we should "Panic Buy" his precise words were "It would be >> sensible to top up" >> >> >> I have concluded he is a brainless p rick. Isn't he right this time? Better everyone go to fill up before the strike, not during, especially as we are at least 7 days away so there'll be more chance of going into it with some station stocks and higher than average fuel tank levels. Millibrain has been carping predictably. He obviously thinks it's a better idea that some of us have empty tanks when it starts. Now there's a brainless p rick! I've been in the car for 5 hours today. Sick of hearing the story. Funniest part was when the female presenter on today said "there's a very specific definition of a jerry can and it's 200.1 litres...". Later corrected to 20 litres. I intend to have all three cars full by the weekend, I can last about 6 weeks on that ;-)       1

New Wed 28 Mar 12 20:15   Tanker strike - henry k

I am down to my last gallon in the car so I waited until the rush hour was over and went to my local filling station just a few hundred yards away. There was a longer queue there than I have ever seen and causing a traffic problem in the approach roads. I will try again later as the host of 4 X4 will be there for ages. When will the first report of Jerry can rage hit the press?

New Wed 28 Mar 12 20:03   Ignorant parking. - R.P.

Just been out to fill the GS - down to less than 1/2 a gallon. The two forecourts I passed en-route to the Shell place were practically deserted - it was just as deserted, with pump closed sleeves on most of the diesel and petrol pumps - reassuringly there was plenty of 98 RON (which I use exclusively in the bike). Shell has had diesel supply problems here for a couple of weeks "problem at Stanlow". Roads there and back were practically deserted - as Humph alludes to, I reckon that small businesses will suffer across the country at a time that they can ill-afford to because drivers are staying at home. Another example of the "me, me, me" culture.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 20:36   Ignorant parking. - Bromptonaut

Sainsbury's in Northampton a bit busier than usual at 18:30 on a weekday,5 car queue onto access road. But still half the numpties won't follow the fill either side instruction and lurk so as to pass filler cap to pump. And a few more find getting into a space twice their car's length a challenge. Optimum throughput definitely not achieved!!

New Wed 28 Mar 12 22:10   Tanker strike - crocks

Just received an email from Machine Mart giving their latest offers. Their range of Jerry cans are highlighted. I wonder how long their supplies will last before the Jerry can rage?

New Wed 28 Mar 12 20:21   Tanker strike - Zero

> >> Isn't he right this time? No, because if everyone had behaved sensibly even if the drivers went on strike we could have survived as the gov got emergency supplies in place & the striking tanker drivers could have been forced back to work, YOu don't last long when you are used to 45k a year,

New Wed 28 Mar 12 20:28   Tanker strike - Manatee

>> > >> >> Isn't he right this time? >> >> No, because if everyone had behaved sensibly even if the drivers went on strike we >> could have survived I agree with that, except for the possibly of everybody behaving sensibly. Classic prisoners dilemma. You and I behave sensibly, everybody else goes and fills up and we have no fuel :-(

New Wed 28 Mar 12 20:31   Tanker strike - R.P.

My feelings exactly Manatee....

New Wed 28 Mar 12 20:33   Tanker strike - -

What a palarva, if they announced a strike now it couldn't take effect for 7 days anyway. keep calm and carry on

New Wed 28 Mar 12 20:36   Tanker strike - Runfer D'Hills

Fine for you to say GB what with your Calor gas thingy under the bonnet ! :-)

New Wed 28 Mar 12 20:41   Tanker strike - -

>> Fine for you to say GB what with your Calor gas thingy under the bonnet No better off, the lpg tankers won't cross official picket lines.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 22:08   Tanker strike - teabelly

>>I agree with that, except for the possibly of everybody behaving sensibly. Classic prisoners >>dilemma. >> You and I behave sensibly, everybody else goes and fills up and we have no >> fuel :-( >> Exactly. Which is why everyone ends up filling up even when they don't need it as the don't know fuel will be available when they do.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 22:27   Tanker strike - Falkirk Bairn

Govt advice - fill up..............causes shortages in places and this encourages people who normally run on 1/4 tank to fill up....................... This creates issues now 8/9 days before Good Friday. Govt then says Labour is not acting in best interests of UK Population as UNITE (the driver's union are looking to strike) Unite are the biggest donor to Labour. Points win to Govt. Pressure on Labour to get UNITE to climb down for 2/3 weeks at least - Easter is gone and petrol strike, if it happens, will be less effective than a Bank Holiday strike. Maybe Govt advice to fill up is to benefit the Govt not benefit the Punter in the street.

New Wed 28 Mar 12 23:24   Tanker strike - rtj70

So Zero hasn't brimmed his Lancer this week has he? He doesn't need to get anywhere in particular like for work either ;-) One issue with telling people to fill up - many garages don't have the storage tanks full. Supermarkets yes others probably not. So they will quickly run dry. But in principle, if when the tanker drivers go on strike, if nobody is effected because they got enough fuel to last them.... they'd either have to strike for longer than they wanted (can they afford to?) or the strike isn't really successful. I can see why collective bargaining can help employees but threatening a strike for a bank holiday weekend....