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I'm looking for a replacement for my 2003 2 litre petrol Focus Ghia. My thighs won't tolerate "sports style" seats ~ they give me painful bursitis ~ so I've had to rule out the current Focus Titanium 1.6 Duratec Ti-VCT (125 PS), and the Mazda 3 2.0 Sport Nav. Any suggestions for a 5 door hatchback along similar lines (1.6 to 2 litres petrol, up to about £20,000) which doesn't have "sports style" seats?
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What seats are in lower spec Focus and Mazda3? Only you can tell if a car is comfortable or not so pop along to some dealers. I rate the seats in my current VW and the ones in the two previous VWs were also comfortable for me. Try a Golf?
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Try an Octavia, but not the VRS - plenty of bells & whisltes on the up market ones without them feelling the need to fit sports seats.
My father and I both disagree with my sister and prefer the Octavia, she has a Golf.
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>> Try an Octavia, .............
I've ordered a brochure. This is always my first move when considering a new car.
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>> I've ordered a brochure. This is always my first move when considering a new car.
Electronic version: go.skoda.eu/gbr_octavia_brochure
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Octavia seating is much firmer than Ford Focus. Will be adjudged too hard.
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Seconded the suggestion to get along to various dealers.
People vary and while one make/seat may be perfect for one person, the next may think it an instrument of torture.
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>> People vary and while one make/seat may be perfect for one person, the next may
>> think it an instrument of torture.
>>
I've long since found that bolstered "sports-style" seats give me a problem of bursitis in my thighs. It was bad enough for me to visit my GP about it. I had a Citroen Volcane followed by a Peugeot 306 XSi, and it wasn't until I bought my first Focus Ghia, which had flattish seats, that the problem disappeared. My current car also has flattish seats which don't press on my thighs and is comfortable. At the time I bought my current Focus Ghia the other variants in the range had "sports-style" seats and that was the main reason I dismissed them. I need seats which are not bolstered to any significant degree. I don't understand the current vogue for bolstered seats. One dealer told me that it's because people like the look of them. I'm not interested in the look of a car, either inside or outside. I want a car which is functional and comfortable.
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Volvo's imminent V40 looks an appealing package. If the seats in that don't suit you you're probably better sticking to lettuces.
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>> Volvo's imminent V40 looks an appealing package. If the seats in that don't suit you
>> you're probably better sticking to lettuces.
>>
Snap!
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My suggestion is the Volvo V40, out in August.
"Without doubt, the most impressive aspect of the V40 is its stylish interior, which features sumptuous trim, imaginative detailing – including some optional digital instruments – and some of the most supportive seats in motoring.
Those seats also boast a wide range of adjustment, so drivers of all shapes and sizes will have no problem getting comfortable."
and
". . . the 148bhp T3 petrol is undoubtedly the sweetest engine in the range. It's smooth and happy to rev hard when you're in the mood for a bit of fun, and if you just want a relaxing drive you can short-shift through the gears letting the engine's strong torque reserves do the work."
www.whatcar.com/car-news/new-volvo-v40-2012-review-updated/263029
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>> My suggestion is the Volvo V40, out in August.
How long is it? I need a car of similar size to a Focus so that it will fit in my garage.
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>> How long is it?
The V40 is based on the Focus IIRC.
Another vote for Volvo here, they make some noise about their seats being designed in conjunction with musculo-skeletal experts.
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How long is it?
Can snails use Google?
Bolsters need to be done properly. The 'Dynamic' seats in my Volvo have bolsters and are more comfortable than the flatter 'Comfort' alternative. But the padding is perfectly judged; the Verso also had bolsters but they were too firm and got in the way.
The Large Estate Car has flatter seats, which are better than Toyota's but less comfortable than Volvo's. There is a Sport derivative, with more bolstery seats that I suspect I'd prefer, but not to the extent of putting up with 18" wheels and £250 35-profile tyres.
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>> Can snails use Google?
Does sarcasm run off a snail's back?
:-D
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Sigh. Like asking my children to empty the dishwasher, it worked out quicker to do it myself.
Snail's 2003 Focus: 4.18m
New Focus: 4.36m
Volvo V40: 4.37m
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"Snail's 2003 Focus: 4.18m
New Focus: 4.36m
Volvo V40: 4.37m"
Can't you do that in imperial?
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I could, but it's no longer 1955 so why would I?
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Sun 15 Jul 12 at 07:04
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"I could, but it's no longer 1955 "
It is on this forum :-)
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>> >> My suggestion is the Volvo V40, out in August.
>>
>> How long is it? I need a car of similar size to a Focus so
>> that it will fit in my garage.
Kia Cee'd. Old Navy seemed to think it was an improvement over his previous Focus.
Toyota Auris. If you're not concerned with looks, it is well built and has an excellent ride. The seats would probably suit as well, if they are anything like my Avensis - they don't have bolsters.
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HJ's road test of the new V40 here:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/volvo/volvo-v40-d2-2012-road-test/
He likes it, and mentions "superbly comfortable seats".
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>> What seats are in lower spec Focus and Mazda3?
I don't want a lower spec car. I've even asked both Ford and my local Ford dealer whether lower spec Focus Style/Edge flattish seats could be fitted (at my expense) into a Focus Titanium but haven't got a satisfactory reply.
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Can confirm that the seats in the V50 RDesign are not huggie type and are supremely confortable in a way that only Volvo can be.
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Do your seats have tilt adjustment, RP? Some smaller Volvos made do with a crude Ford height lever, but I think they've put that right now.
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Volvo seats are incredibly comfortable. They are designed in conjunction with orthopaedic experts, or at least they used to be. I presume this is still the case.
I would happily have installed the seats from my S60 in my lounge. They were that comfortable. The seats in my in-laws old V50 were also superb.
Last edited by: DP on Fri 13 Jul 12 at 10:56
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>> How about something a bit Rapid: cars.uk.msn.com/reviews/skoda-rapid-2012-onwards-1
>>
"Rapid by badge does not mean rapid by nature....."
Nor did it ever. The only pretensions to Rapidity that the original versions had was two doors, full trailing arm rear suspension rather than the semi-trailing of the Estelle and the addition of a twin-choke carburettor, with the second choke being vacuum-operated.
Trim "upgrades" over its cooking cousins included "sports" seats (actually the same seats, but you could vary the height, courtesy of having mountings with three sets of holes to bolt them to rather than only one) and delay wipers with three delay settings, courtesy of a monumental arrangement of 1950s vintage electronics behind a rotary switch on the dash.
Felt a lot faster than it was courtesy of handling that anyone who's ever driven an early Porsche 911 will find strikingly familiar, the only difference being that everything happens at much lower speeds.
Can't see the new one being anywhere near as much fun, although probably less likely to be afflicted by the older version's tendancy for bits to break off.
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Not sure - not being the main pilot and all that. Will check when I get home.
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you need a Suzuki Jimney!!
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Or a Suzuki Jimny even.
:}
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The seats in my Volvo V60 are the sports R Design jobbies, but they are very comfortable. The seats are probably the best feature of the car.
V60 might be a good choice, but not sure if its a tad to long for you. TBH I would be surprised if its much longer than a focus estate
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>> Or a Suzuki Jimny even.
>>
>> :}
>>
See you Jimmy!
:}
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>> Can confirm that the seats in the V50 RDesign are not huggie type and are
>> supremely confortable in a way that only Volvo can be.
>>
That sounds promising.
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An interesting thread. I've not thought much about a Volvo, but I like what I read here. Could be one for me to look at when I get around to replacing my modest limousine.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Sat 14 Jul 12 at 07:42
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As I read it the OP's problem occured in a Citroen Volcane (presumably a ZX) and a 306. These two shared a floorpan and mechanicals. Many other parts, probably including seats, were from a common PSA parts bin.
Before writing off 'bolstered' seats altogether it might be worth an extended test drive in say the Focus - if that fits the bill otherwise - before compromising on other trim etc.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 14 Jul 12 at 08:39
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Well, just to throw a spanner in the works, I know lots of people praise Volvo seats but I've never got on with them. It's a while since I had one though so things may have changed of course. They were fine, I foundanyway, for the first 100 miles or so of a long run but gradually became a source of numbness and discomfort.
Conversely, I normally find Ford ergonomics pretty much faultless, particularly on their larger models.
Horses for courses as someone once said I suppose.
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>> Before writing off 'bolstered' seats altogether it might be worth an extended test drive in
>> say the Focus - .............
I sat in one and just having to climb over the hard edge of the bolster when getting in annoyed me. Getting out I have to swing my legs around until both feet are on the ground, and just before getting my bottom off the seat my thighs are sitting on the hard edge of the bolster. All the salesman could comment was that people liked the look of the seats. Who cares what they look like? Seats are for sitting on.
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...hard edge of the bolster...
That's what to look for, then: they're not all hard like that. Lay a trail of slime to your Volvo dealer - mine is advertising V40 test drive events at the end of July, so I expect there'll be something going on at yours too - and have a go. Be warned, though - unless you're Humph, once you've tried a Swedish seat, nothing else ever feels quite right.
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Get your shell into a nearly new V50 oh silvery one - Ford Focus based - but has more soul and with a 5 cylinder engine sounds good - and comfy seats !
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I thought bursitis was a problem with insolvent schools.....also it seems a disease of snails. :)
Seriously, L'escargot, before you make a Shell V-power sign at me, I find that the sports seats in my Octavis vRS suit me perfectly, but the ones in other Octavias lack thigh support. If your problem is too much thigh support, have a look at an Octavia Elegance - or even a Laurin & Klement, which normally I wouldn't say was worth the extra cost, but comfort as opposed to discomfort might make it so.
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>>Laurin & Klemen<<
The seats in this one aren't sports style: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2007-08-cesko-153.jpg
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Thanks for all the Volvo recommendations. As a first step I've applied online for a brochure to be sent to me.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Mon 16 Jul 12 at 07:20
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Had to shift the V50 yesterday, it has got very low key, soft side bolsters, but unless you are particularly wide in the rear they don't interfere with you - not sure they are tiltable..
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>> Had to shift the V50 yesterday, it has got very low key, soft side bolsters,
>> but unless you are particularly wide in the rear they don't interfere with you -
>> not sure they are tiltable..
>>
One man's meat etc
I've got an S40 Volvo (10 reg) 2.0 diesel - great car (saloon version of the V50) .................but the seats !!!
THE most uncomfortable car I've ever owned - ok(ish) on short trips but anything over 2 hours
brings excruciating pain to my right thigh. We have just returned from a holiday in France and I was reduced to sitting on a cushion - the seats adjust every which way but they are just too narrow with the aforementioned side bolsters and the thin padding on the squab causing the problems. It's cloth trim - maybe the leather version has better padding?
A shame because I like the car but the lease is up in March and a Golf is already earmarked to replace it - a gamble I suppose because I test drove the Volvo (6 miles) & it was fine albeit the version I tested had leather seats, one never knows how comfortable the car will be until you go on a really long run.
Jacks
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>> As a first step I've applied online for a brochure to be sent to me.
You'd be far better off putting your bum on a seat than a brochure to see how comfortable it is ;)
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>> You'd be far better off putting your bum on a seat than a brochure to
>> see how comfortable it is ;)
>>
If the car specification, performance and price aren't right then it wouldn't be worth my while making a 56 miles round trip to visit the nearest dealer just to sit in a car. So far, on paper, the Volvo V40 is looking good except that all the variants are Stop/Start, and I'd have to reconcile myself to that first. As yet I'm very dubious about start/stop.
So ............ does anyone own/drive a start/stop car and what do you think of it? Forget about any possible advantages regarding fuel economy, emissions etc ~ I'm not a tree hugger. I just want to know about the driving experience and any mechanical/reliability problems associated with start/stop.
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I have only once driven one which I did find annoying but there is a switch to turn it off. It would just mean having to remember each time.
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>> I have only once driven one which I did find annoying but there is a
>> switch to turn it off. It would just mean having to remember each time.
>>
I just rang the nearest Volvo dealer and they confirmed that what you said applied to the latest V40. It's a pity you can't disable it completely.
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No trouble with it in a Volvo S60 1.6D loan car last year. Also saw it recently in a European colleague's Passat, where it did occasionally seem to need reminding to restart. Wouldn't put me off a V40, certainly.
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My X1 has stop start - it can be overriden via a dashboardish switch but only for the current journey. It works well and I have no issue with it. It stopped working a few weeks ago but that was duy to a faulty radio (believe it or not) since that was swapped under warranty it works as advertised and you soon get used to it, especially in a diesel. We had a hybrid Honda in work with SS the engine was too quiet and the warning light too tiny for you to be 100% comfortable.
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>> My X1 has stop start - it can be overriden via a dashboardish switch but
>> only for the current journey.
The dealer said that in the V40 you can only switch it off before each stop. After driving off again the system resets itself.
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I had a Punto with it when my car was last in for service. It worked very well and unobtrusively. It wouldn't worry me. The systems are quite smart I think - they will decide whether to keep the engine going if the engine isn't up to temperature, the battery is down or the load is high - lights and aircon, for example.
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The BMW's measures charge and battery state, ambient temp. (too cold it won't work), what I've found in practice if driving with the lights on it wil still still stop. However once demand exceeds supply amps wise it fires up to compensate. It's very smart. Sometimes a little too smart for its own good.
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I drove a 3-series with stopstart once. Its owner (not a mechanically minded type) hated it, and would never sit at traffic lights in neutral (I think that's what operated it, I may have forgotten). It took me about 3 minutes to get used to it.
Love it? er, entirely ambivalent. It makes no difference whatsoever to the driving of the car. Dip clutch, into gear, and off you go.
Hate it? er, entirely ambivalent. It makes no difference whatsoever to the driving of the car. Dip clutch, into gear, and off you go.
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>> So ............ does anyone own/drive a start/stop car and what do you think of it?
>> Forget about any possible advantages regarding fuel economy, emissions etc ~ I'm not a tree
>> hugger. I just want to know about the driving experience and any mechanical/reliability problems associated
>> with start/stop.
>>
My wife's car has stop/start. As other's have said generally just happens without thinking about it though ours did manage to get a bit confused at the Eurotunnel with all the stop/start traffic and the pull over for the swab test. Stopped then started then switched off when I popped it in to drive to move off.
As someone who generally keeps there car longer than the warranty period L'es you might want to check how much a replacement battery for a stop/start equipped car is. Some prices may make you weep.
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I've been driving a Stop Start BMW 3 series quite a bit lately. I'm not supposed to disable the Stop Start, and tbh haven't wanted to, but I have discovered a pretty good way to disable it. Just leave the aircon in Auto and it is much more reluctant to stop the motor.
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Mine still does SS in that condition, the air-con is in auto all year round. There is a software tweak to disable. In all honesty can't see a problem, it behaves impeccably....apart from the radio issue, but that was a fail safe.
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I find the Stop Start pretty good as well, but the luddite in me still winces when, after blasting down the motorway for 20 miles, then coming up a slip road to a set of lights, it kills the engine the second the car comes to a halt. Taken straight from the "How to kill a turbo" manual from ye olden days.
I know it's just me, and the car is fine, but old habits die hard. :-)
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>> L'es you might
>> want to check how much a replacement battery for a stop/start equipped car is. Some
>> prices may make you weep.
The dealer I rang said the start/stop function had a seperate battery. I didn't ask exactly what that meant.
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>> >> L'es you might
>> >> want to check how much a replacement battery for a stop/start equipped car is.
>> Some
>> >> prices may make you weep.
>>
>> The dealer I rang said the start/stop function had a seperate battery. I didn't ask
>> exactly what that meant.
>>
In Volvo speak it means there is a 2nd battery mounted low down at the front of the car which translates into you can't have the R-design spec due to lack of space for the body kit.
Not sure if that applies to the new V40 but did to the C30/S40/V50 variants.
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>> the Volvo V40 is looking good except that
>> all the variants are Stop/Start, and I'd have to reconcile myself to that first. As
>> yet I'm very dubious about start/stop.
I could have been interested in a V40 myself when I get around to replacing my current 10 year old barge, but as a low mileage (mainly local) driver, I think it might not be such a good idea. On a journey of around 12 miles this afternoon, there was at least a dozen instances where the stop / start facility would have kicked in.
At present I have to check my battery every two to three weeks, and it usually requires a charge. How would drivers like myself possibly cope with stop / start?
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A lot of the cars with SS have a uprated alternator and other parts, some are clever enough to not engage the SS if it might damage the car eg if the engine is cold.
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BMW won't engage when it's cold - its also got regenerative braking and an alternator that disconnects when the battery doesn't need charging.
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The BMW system (and others I suspect) also monitors battery voltage. Mine will sometimes restart if the car has been stationary for more than a minute or two.
EDIT: sorry just saw R.P posted the same earlier.
Last edited by: DP on Thu 19 Jul 12 at 18:27
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The Citroën restarts when the interior starts to warm up when sat in traffic/at lights.
SS works from the off, traffic lights 0,5km from the front door and the engne cuts out.
What I don't like is when doing a three point turn the SS kicks in when moving from drive to reverse with the EGS gearbox.
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and that was the bottom line of the recent fault on mine, I noticed it wasn't working as I would expected - booked it in. The very good service manager at my local dealer, remembered I'd had a moan at him about a random fault with the radio. (It would come on randomly when you locked it for instance) - he recommended a radio replacement and bingo it now works as it should. What is memorable that it won't operate on cold days in winter and can go for weeks without kicking in. There was no failure warning light. Just stopped working - doing what it says it does in the manual when battery volts are low.
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Our car is only 3 months old and has already been back once for the EGS to be reprogrammed.
Change from first to second was laboured and 'clunky', the fact we'd just come out of the same car helped convince them it wasn't right. That's been fixed now.
I'll keep an eye on it, see what happens when heated seats, lights and heaters are hammering it. Either way, it's a lease car under manufacturers warranty so it will keep going back until I'm happy with it.
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It wouldn't have bothered me if it remained not working, but might be a selling point if it was IYKWIM....
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I read somewhere that research had found that stop-start doesn't actually save very much fuel: anyone care to confirm or deny?
SWMBO has it on her Mini, but says she sits at traffic lights with the clutch down, so it never comes in.
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I very much doubt it contributes anything to me in an economy sense, I live in the uncongested country - I can drive my 15 miles to work without it activating. Is there a risk of excessive clutch wear in preventing it from activating like that ?
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She's been driving like that for 40 years, always manuals, and touch wood has never had a clutch fail. I wouldn't think that holding the clutch disengaged should put any strain on asnything but the pedal spring.
She is more conservative than I am but oddly has taken to the BMW indicators in the Mini - I still can't stand them.
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Could I ask why she always does that?
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Stop start doesn't benefit me much at all in terms of fuel used. For local driving the car won't have warmed up enough for it to enable. And on longer drives you're not stopped many times so again it doesn't help.
What it does for me is reduce the cost of the car for BIK purposes. The official CO2 figure for my 170PS diesel is 129g/km. The previous car without Bluemotion Technology was more like 146g/km. So I save each month with more take home pay :-) And if a private car the road tax is a bit cheaper.
The tests used for CO2 means stop-start is a bit of a cheat. Because they allow the car to be warmed up before the test, the section where they measure emissions whilst stationary means there are none because the engine is off! Although you could argue that is the case in real life if you are stationary and the engine had warmed up.
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Stop start on the Volvo, but during my daily commute there is only 2 sets of lights where it gets a chance to kick in.
Has it made any difference to consumption? Yes, it's a dam site worse than the C5 was with the same engine
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Does Start/Stop make it take longer to get the car moving again after the car/engine has stopped? In other words, is the time taken for the engine to restart significant?
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In my experience, no; by the time I'd selected first gear the engine was running again. But if you're at all concerned that you're in a situation where you can't afford to wait, you can, as Avant points out, keep the clutch pedal down and so keep the engine running. This is probably what I'd do anyway at a complicated junction, so the stop-start fits into my natural driving habits. It's really nothing to worry about.
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No, as soon as you dip the clutch it fires up. No lag no fuss.
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In my experience start-up is actaully quicker with SS than with the key. Shift from neutral to drive or take your foot off the brake in drive and the engine is back up and running ready to go before your foot gets to the accelerator. Not bad for a diesel.
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With an auto I would just let it creep forward and control the speed using the brake. I wouldn't want to have the engine stop every time I came to a standstill when it can sometimes just be for a second or two. If you have to press the disable button each time the wheels stop turning that would drive me nuts. Not too bad if it's for the full journey but not every time you stop.
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That's a technique I've used though it doesn't really creep with an EGS gearbox so you have to judge the slow down and hope you don't have someone with binary pedals in front of you.
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In a very unBMW way the disable button is not placed within easy reach (although a lot better on the F90 my FiL has - its on the key escutcheon so well within reach) on the X1.
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Start Stop is hateful. Had it on the Ka I hired in Jersey, spoiled an otherwise fabulous little car.
Don't even think about letting up the clutch with the gear lever in neutral at any point during a reverse into a space, or a three point turn, it turns the engine off at just the wrong moment.
And believe me, there is a lot of reversing, three point turns and stopping in Jersey!
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Never had that problem in the X1 Zero - probably some slightly different software !
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>> Start Stop is hateful. Had it on the Ka I hired in Jersey, spoiled an
>> otherwise fabulous little car.
>> Don't even think about letting up the clutch with the gear lever in neutral at
>> any point during a reverse into a space, or a three point turn, it turns
>> the engine off at just the wrong moment.
>>
>> And believe me, there is a lot of reversing, three point turns and stopping in
>> Jersey!
>>
I cant say I have warmed to the new Volvo, but the stop start system is very intuitive and seamless.
It wont work when you have reversed until you have gone forward again at something over about 10 mph, so it never cuts out while parking, and the button to disable is right by the gear stick, so in easy reach.
A nice added bonus is that if you stall it starts again as soon as you press the clutch
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One reservation I would have with the new V40 is that the bonnet hinges pop up to allow a pedestrian airbag to deploy. I have seen on various forums that the Nissan 370z and the Jag XF have similar pop up bonnets, but without the airbag, and after hitting a post in one case and a dog in the other it was several thousand pounds to replace them. Apparantly you can't just push them back yourself.
I don't know how true this is but before I bought a car with such a system I would make sure that I knew the replacement costs involved.
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>> One reservation I would have with the new V40 is that the bonnet hinges pop
>> up to allow a pedestrian airbag to deploy. .........................
>> I don't know how true this is but before I bought a car with such
>> a system I would make sure that I knew the replacement costs involved.
>>
Assuming I'd hit something to make it happen, I'd claim on my insurance.
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In both the examples I saw they were paid out of their own pockets. Now I don't know why that would be, and I can't remember the forums I saw them in to check (if I find them again I will put more details here) but it stuck in my mind as something to be aware of.
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Vandalism would be something to watch out for. When Nissan brought out the GTR there were reports of hammers being used on the bumpers to activate the sensors so they could see the bonnet pop up.
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>> Does Start/Stop make it take longer to get the car moving again after the car/engine
>> has stopped? In other words, is the time taken for the engine to restart significant?
>>
No, if fact its quicker than I could reach for the keys.
As soon as you touch the clutch pedal its running again, in fact I would go so far as to say its running before I manage to engage first.
The button to disable it is by the the gear lever so you can easily disable it, but TBH if you don't want it to stop because you are only stopping for a few seconds, then don't lift of the clutch.
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>> Does Start/Stop make it take longer to get the car moving again after the car/engine
>> has stopped? In other words, is the time taken for the engine to restart significant?
As I wrote above:
"Love it? er, entirely ambivalent. It makes no difference whatsoever to the driving of the car. Dip clutch, into gear, and off you go.
"Hate it? er, entirely ambivalent. It makes no difference whatsoever to the driving of the car. Dip clutch, into gear, and off you go."
If you were deaf and had no rev counter and couldn't feel the car vibrating, you wouldn't even know you had it. (BMW.)
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>> I wouldn't think that holding the clutch disengaged should put any
>> strain on asnything but the pedal spring.
>>
Release bearing and the cover diaphragm spring.
Obviously you mean MINI rather than Mini. If it were actually a Mini, you'd have been through umpty-hundred of those BMC graphite release bearings by now. You'd also probably have the process of removing and replacing the engine/ transmission assembly down to about 1/2 an hour through practice. Not sure how bulletproof the ball bearing and cover spring are in the MINI, but she isn't doing them any favours.
The other problem with that approach is that those who do it also tend to hold the thing still with the footbrake. Come an unexpected rear-end shunt, feet slip off pedals......
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Stopping at lights in gear with clutch dipped is method taught by ADIs; too much for inexperienced to do when lights go green.
Trained daughter out of habit now. Will work on son once he's passed the test.
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>> Stopping at lights in gear with clutch dipped is method taught by ADIs; too much
>> for inexperienced to do when lights go green.
Wasn't taught that way, or too much in the days of my driving lessons and test. It was strict handbrake on and into neutral at anything other than an emergency stop.
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Me too Zeddo. I can still hear my instructor telling me 'neutral, handbrake'.
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>> Me too Zeddo. I can still hear my instructor telling me 'neutral, handbrake'.
In my era, it was "handbrake, neutral" - and I can still hear my father saying "dip the clutch, put it into neutral and then come to a stop and apply the handbrake; you'll not wear out the clutch system as much that way."
Teaching this to girlfriends is always a struggle... "it's only a car..."
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I do that as well Zero - I have some mechanical sympathy and don't like being stopped with my foot on the clutch. On the bike I tend to keep it in gear with the clutch in, but I'm lot more "me me me" on that !
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Handbrake then neutral was what my instructors (I had two) taught me in the late 1980s: first make the car securely stationary, then take the strain off the clutch bearing.
These days, sadly, the old Volvo can be awkward to get out of neutral when stationary, so I tend to wait in first with the clutch down. But the seat, to return to topic, is as comfortable as ever.
}:---)
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>> Handbrake then neutral was what my instructors (I had two) taught me .........
Me too. And I still think it's the safest way regardless of what might be taught nowadays.
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Reading through these last phew! posts makes me realise why I stopped driving pedal cars long ago!
:-}
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Hand throttle and brake?
Must get me one of those ;-)
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>>An interesting thread. I've not thought much about a Volvo, but I like what I read here. Could be one for me to look at when I get around to replacing my modest limousine.<<
No, it's not for me after all...
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>> Reading through these last phew! posts makes me realise why I stopped driving pedal cars
>> long ago!
Well, you wouldn't fit in one now.
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A nice added bonus is that if you stall it starts again as soon as you press the clutch
I forgot about that - not that I never stall it of course (!)
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>> A nice added bonus is that if you stall it starts again as soon as
>> you press the clutch
>>
>> I forgot about that - not that I never stall it of course (!)
>>
>>
>>
>>
.......errrr...yeah..... what I meant was when MrsB stalls it..........
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>>Well, you wouldn't fit in one now<<
Oh, I dunno - this one says its designed for older children: goo.gl/fLpxK (ebay)
:}
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>> On the bike I tend to keep it in gear with the clutch in, but I'm lot more "me me me" on
>> that !
>>
Rob, have you ever pulled the clutch in on the bike and had the bike drive on ?
I had one of those FSFSFSFSFSFSFSFSFS moments yesterday, the bike had been standing for about a week and a half, did all the usual pre-flight checks, got on, flicked the side-stand up knocked it into first it jumped feeling quite lively and then stalled. Hmmm, faulty side-stand switch ? Restarted it and off down the road to the first junction, clutch in, revs stay at 4k and the bike keeps pulling, no drop in revs and no loss of drive from the clutch.
So now the bikes going back for a check up.
That wakes you up...
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 20 Jul 12 at 20:39
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Luckily no ! Sticking clutch ?
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I'm wondering if some water has got in there and contaminated the plates. Probably a couple of things as it stalled when clicking into first as if the side-stand switch had activated.
The amount of water lately its probably related. Under warranty so I'm not going to mess about with it.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 20 Jul 12 at 20:46
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The sky, down onto the roads...
being serious there's not a lot of protection around the bike, some water might have got in.
The side panels are held on with velcro.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 20 Jul 12 at 20:52
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Ah yes. Very concious of this on the Beemer, did some flood surfing on the National Rally a couple of weeks ago - very adventure type stuff.
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I've no doubt the Vulgar Velocette will have it's clutch seized up when I next use it.
The only way out is to rev it's nuts off, bang it into first and as you shoot off up the drive, tramp on both brakes....usually works first time.
I'm not sure I'd risk it on a Hayabusa, though !
Ted
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All the good experiences of start/stop reported by Car4play members have put my mind at rest that it's not generally inconvenient during normal driving. All I have to do now is accept that Volvo have ensured that it doesn't have a significant negative impact on the durability of the starter motor and the flywheel gear ring.
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My understanding is that in cars with stop start they beef up these components to give an acceptable service life, although, as already stated, if it bothers you, you can turn the function off.
I also understand that there are two types of system - one a more basic variant with a single battery, and a more robust one with a second battery, and regenerative braking. The volvo has the latter
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I can guess which one you'd find in a Ka.
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Judging by how crap it was, it was the hamster in a cage implementation.
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Try an Octavia, but not the VRS - plenty of bells & whisltes on the up market ones without them feelling the need to fit sports seats.
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Welome By Firends. Or is that an anagram?
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>> Welcome By Firends.
And now goodbye. His account profile smelt strongly of spam.
Vx.
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>> Try an Octavia, but not the VRS - plenty of bells & whisltes on the
>> up market ones without them feelling the need to fit sports seats.
It's just that bit too long to fit comfortably in my garage.
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>> ..... although, as already stated, if it bothers you, you can
>> turn the function off.
I asked the dealer about it, and from what he said my understanding is that you can only disable it for one stop. When you start off again it resets itself. I'd accept that even though that would be a bit tedious. Nevertheless and not withstanding, so far (on paper, at least) the V40 is top of my list of possibles.
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That's annoying. The BMW system stays disabled until you next cycle the ignition.
It is much less intrusive than expected though, and the algorithm used to determine when it kicks in is pretty much flawless. I just wish the indicators were as clever. ;-)
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The Volvo system stays off until you cycle the ignition i.e the next journey, but the button is right by the gear stick so easy to just push when you start
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>> The Volvo system stays off until you cycle the ignition i.e the next journey, ...........
I hope that applies to the V40. They aren't available hereabouts yet for a test drive.
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Can you not get some kind of foam pad/cushion made up? It might be less bother to have some seat addition than try and find a modern car with comfy seats :)
Try alfa though as I've always found they seem to have comfortable seats not rock hard benches.
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>> Can you not get some kind of foam pad/cushion made up? It might be less
>> bother to have some seat addition than try and find a modern car with comfy
>> seats :)
I don't understand why the seats of modern cars aren't designed so as to be comfortable. Surely seat comfort is a major requirement for most drivers.
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Have to say, the seats on my LEC are not as comfortable on a long run as I'd have imagined they would be. You'd still go a long way to beat the Mondeo for real long distance ergonomic perfection. For me anyway. The "German" ones are just toooo hard after a few hundred miles...
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>> Have to say, the seats on my LEC are not as comfortable on a long
>> run as I'd have imagined they would be.
>>
When I changed cars last time I wanted an E320CDi as they were known then. I hired a 220 for a long weekend. I could have happily lived with the 320 based on the weekend experience with the car covering about 1,200kms in three days, the seats were firm but OK. The electric motors had all the finesse of a recovering alcoholic playing Jenga.
They just about crippled the boss. That was the end of my 320 dream.
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>> >> Can you not get some kind of foam pad/cushion made up? It might be
>> less
>> >> bother to have some seat addition than try and find a modern car with
>> comfy
>> >> seats :)
>>
>> I don't understand why the seats of modern cars aren't designed so as to be
>> comfortable. Surely seat comfort is a major requirement for most drivers.
>>
I think they're designed for fatties though. That's why they have to be firm as the porkers would just destroy the seats. They forget there are those of us that don't have an backside like a monument so we actually need some seat padding.
I'd definitely try Alfa seats. They're squashy.
Don't bother with BMW. The Msport seats are diabolical. I had the car for several weeks and never managed to get it comfortable.
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>> They forget there are those of us that
>> don't have an backside like a monument so we actually need some seat padding.
According to statistics we are now in the minority.
>> Don't bother with BMW. The Msport seats are diabolical. I had the car for several
>> weeks and never managed to get it comfortable.
I find the BMW sports seats in particular to provide excellent support. Just goes to show that everyone is different and you need to test a car on a long drive to be certain.
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>> >> They forget there are those of us that
>> >> don't have an backside like a monument so we actually need some seat padding.
>>
>> According to statistics we are now in the minority.
>>
>> >> Don't bother with BMW. The Msport seats are diabolical. I had the car for
>> several
>> >> weeks and never managed to get it comfortable.
>>
>> I find the BMW sports seats in particular to provide excellent support. Just goes to
>> show that everyone is different and you need to test a car on a long
>> drive to be certain.
>>
It was mainly due to the pedal height so I had to have the seat in the wrong position to make the pedals safe so too much weight was on the thigh area. Brake and clutch pedals were far too high for me. The accelerator was also set really low so you'd have to lift your foot up and over to get the brake. Awful ergonomics. I actually nearly had an accident because I slipped my foot under the brake as I wasn't used to having pedals in such stupid positions.
Funny thing was the insignia barge I had just before was perfectly comfortable straight away with minimal adjustment. Shame the one I was lent leaked coolant continually so it had to go back!
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>> I'd definitely try Alfa seats. They're squashy.
It's not the firmness of the seat base (or squab) which gives me a problem, it's the side bolsters pressing on my thighs.
Another thing I've noticed is there's a trend for seat fabric to be thin and hard. Mine is a nice thick soft velvet.
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>> >> I'd definitely try Alfa seats. They're squashy.
>>
>> It's not the firmness of the seat base (or squab) which gives me a problem,
>> it's the side bolsters pressing on my thighs.
>>
>> Another thing I've noticed is there's a trend for seat fabric to be thin and
>> hard. Mine is a nice thick soft velvet.
>>
Alfa seem to use the plushy stuff too. I don't like those thin fabric seats either. I'd even rather have leather, which I hate, than that thin shiny cheap suit fabric.
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>> Can you not get some kind of foam pad/cushion made up? It might be less
>> bother to have some seat addition than try and find a modern car with comfy
>> seats :)
It's difficult to get the right compromise with extra cushions. I could have done with a bit more lumbar support on my Avensis so I bought a thin lumbar support. It's still too thick when combined with the support in the seat. I was thinking of getting a supportive base cushion due to reduce numbness in the posterior but that would raise me too high in the seat, and I already have the seat at it's lowest setting.
You can't beat a car with well designed seats from the outset, and I think this get's more important as you get older.
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>> I could have done with a bit more lumbar support on my Avensis so I bought a thin lumbar support.<<
Avez vous tried one of these guv:
www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Mckenzie-Lumbar-Roll-Density/dp/B003ZIK36A/ref=pd_sim_d_1
Last edited by: Dog on Sun 29 Jul 12 at 12:19
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>> Avez vous tried one of these guv:
That's what I bought Dog, albeit the slim version
www.healthandcare.co.uk/bed-cushions-supports/the-original-mckenzie-slimline-lumbar-roll.html
Last edited by: corax on Sun 29 Jul 12 at 13:12
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>> Can you not get some kind of foam pad/cushion made up?
I considered that approach (Halfords sell seat cushions) but it doesn't seem right when buying a new car that I should then have to buy a cushion to compensate for uncomfortable seats. I made my views about the bolsters known to my Ford dealer and he said they were like that because people liked the look of the seats. I told him I don't care what they look like, and I wouldn't buy a car if the seats weren't comfortable. If enough people were to do that it might filter back to the manufacturer. Also the dealer might notice a reduction in their sales figures. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first era in which car variants which don't pretend to be sporty have been fitted with bolstered sports-style seats.
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I suspect your problem is that most people do find them comfortable and desirable. Plenty of market research will have gone in to making the decision. Surely your answer is to buy one of the cheaper versions that don't have the seats you object to. The more basic versions are normally far better value for money too.
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For a bit of drift. Well, not really in any major way. I had a "top of the range" Qashqai as a company car. A "Tekna" model 2.0 auto diesel 4x4. My wife has a "bottom of the range" Visia model 1.6 petrol manual.
Now, there were indeed features of the Tekna I had which were nice to have but I just checked the difference in RRP. The Visia like my wife's is listed at £16k and something. The one I had is ticketed at over £27k.
It was better, but it wasn't £11,000 worth better. Not even nearly.
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It is extraordinary how much extra you pay for up-market versions. I guess primarily aimed at the Company Car buyer. Never fully reflected in the re-sale value either.
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Totally agree CG. Once you are sitting at 50 mph in the inevitable contraflow, with the cabin temperature set to your liking and your favourite radio station on, it really looks much the same through the windscreen whether you're in the cooking model of your chosen car car or the firebreathing one.
Edit - having said that. I'm a sucker for toys...
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sun 29 Jul 12 at 17:19
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I've said before some of the base models of a range (esp small cars) are often the most fun. They are not trying so hard, and honest
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Rented the base model Skoda Citigo last week in Slovenia. Had everything you need as opposed to what you think you need and was tremendous fun to drive.
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The first and only law of economics (i.e. all I know about it) is that the right price is what some other poor sap will pay.
British poor saps love their toys, so will pay for the upmarket models, as in Humph's example; they love their image too, so wil pay thousands extra for an Audi over a Skoda, or a Lexus over a Toyota.
The French as a rule specify more basic models than we do - so have fewer electrical gizmos to go srong, as they do on UK-based French cars.
Going back to seats, judgement can only be subjective, but my personal holy grail is a seat that feels squishy when you first sit in it, but then supports you where you need it (small of back, thighs, hips). My last few cars, all German or Czech, have all done better in the support than the squishiness (which is the right way round if you can't have both). The seven before then were all Renaults, which were the other way round.
Best ever: 1955 Austin A50, 1968 Triumph 1300, 1988 and 1994 Peugeot 205s. Admittedly I've never had a Mondeo.
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... a seat that feels squishy when you first sit in it, but then supports you where you need it (small of back, thighs, hips).
Elegantly put, Avant. And exactly right - perhaps the reason why I find our German seats more comfortable on long journeys than short ones. If I'm in it for half an hour on the way home from work, I wriggle and fidget and tinker with the adjustments, but after ten hours driving across France (not all of it at the wheel) I got out feeling fine.
You can have both, of course, and we all know where.
};---)
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>>
>> It is extraordinary how much extra you pay for up-market versions. I guess primarily aimed
>> at the Company Car buyer. Never fully reflected in the re-sale value either.
>>
Approximately 75% of the UK market for new vehicles is bought by businesses of one sort or another.Other countries don't have the taxation breaks that we have.
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Just undertaken a 360 mile round trip to leafy N Yorks in the V50 - can confirm the seats are as good as they get. Soft, supportive - comfortable, slightly better adjustment in the headrest area might have made them perfect for me.
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OK, come on then, what have you done to Iffy?
:-)
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Wish we could have met up with him - It was a trip to collect a guitar my wife had bought - Started off from sunny Anglesey just after 9.00am got there at just after 12 - back home including a stop to drop off and collect the dogs back here for 5.00pm. No iffy, no radiators and no handcuffs involved !
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Purely out of interest (as my Octavia is only 16 months old) I test-drove a new Volvo V40 last week. In most ways it was excellent, and I liked it a lot: it felt 'right' as one might expect given its links with the Focus. A good compromise between ride and handling, light but precise steering and very comfortable seats as you might expect. I tried a 1.6 D2 which was refined and quite sprightly, but I'd like to try a 2.0 D3 or D4. For once, the diesels cost no more than the corresponding petrols.
Ford did a much better job of their stewardship of Volvo than GM did with Saab - although I think they too lost money, hence the sale to the Chinese. I do hope the new owners maintain the momentum - Volvos are now genuinely good to drive without losing their ability to soldier on into old age and high mileages.
One serious downside of the V40 is that its 'kicked-up' styling and smallish rear window means that reversing had to be done by mirrors and a bit of guesswork. Let's hope they produce an estate version (what would they call it?) with a bigger glass area by the time I'm looking for a new car.
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>> No iffy, no radiators and no handcuffs involved !
Don't mention radiators.... his radiator in the caravan is rusting. Probably going to cause a flood now if handcuffs were involved somewhere.
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Uncomfortable "sports style" seats - rtj70
