An friend of mine had his Mondeo ST written of several weeks ago. Fortunately no injuries to those on board. After much wrangling with the insurers he has finally agreed a sum and is now looking for a replacement. With 2 young teenagers, they have a 307 as the family runaround, and he is looking for something practical, with decent performance, but not OTT with running costs.
Pre kids he had a succession of hot hatches, but needs a larger car for carrying 4 up, with lots of sports kit, both around town and on longer runs.
I suggested a 5 door Focus ST but that was way too thirsty. My second suggestion a 330 petrol Touring (surprise surprise). He is now thinking of a 330D touring, but he is not sure of its suitability for short stop/start journeys every evening after school taxing the kids + friends around, and all their gear, to various sports training. Or, a Focus 2.0TD for improved mpg but less performance. His budget is £10/12k, annual mileage only 8k and he really doesn't need something Mondeo sized again.
Suggestions please...although I think the 330 Touring is perfect for his circumstances!
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ST155, Best of both worlds.
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Nice-looking car, Z, but unless LL's friend is a shortarse, his teenagers are going to be a tight fit in the back of a C. The one I borrowed recently barely had room for my laptop bag behind my seat.
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Legacy/Outback, probably Diesel if not too sluggish, would have though the economy of a 3.0 litre petrol (plus max VED) as bad as Focus ST but is a possibility.
Would he consider and LPG coverted Outback 3 litre? (or other LPG'd decent engined car), ok its still going to be max VED in most cases but will give Diesel fuel economy...obviously much depends on local fuel availability.
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E91 330d is an amazing drive IMHO, 335d even better (but much thirstier than the post-2008 330d IIRC). 325i and 330i are both great and possibly better for stop-start usage too, I suspect they're cheaper than their diesel counterparts especially as (my preference) a manual ?
A 325i or 330i in SE spec is a bit of a q-car (well insofar as a BMW can ever be), none of the pointless M-bling favoured by the fur-coat-and-no-knickers 318i/d brigade and a decent ride / handling balance.
Otherwise, I imagine the Volvo 5Cyl engined Mondeo IV would be an interesting car and probably quite cheap given its reputation for thirst (you could offset the fuel costs with whatever is saved on the purchase) ? You could get this in an S-Max too ?
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Mazda 3 Sport 2.2d (185). Far better running costs than the st220 but not that far off performance wise.
BTW, how can a petrol 330 touring be the second recommendation if a Focus ST is 'way' to thirsty.
The 2.3l turbo Mazda 3 MPS looks rather good too, but similar figures to the Focus ST.
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>> BTW, how can a petrol 330 touring be the second recommendation if a Focus ST
>> is 'way' to thirsty.
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I don't have direct experience of a 330i (I had the 330d) but I understand that the 325i (still no slouch with 215PS) is surprisingly economical in normal use, at least as a manual anyhow. Whereas the Volvo T5 engine in the Focus ST and Mondeo IV has quite a reputation for thirst doesn't it ?
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Wed 8 May 13 at 14:25
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I confess the requirements list is puzzling me, especially this bit:
...something practical, with decent performance, but not OTT with running costs...
and the concern that a big petrol engine might be incompatible with family run-around duties when there's already another car for those.
No-one concerned about running costs chooses a high-performance petrol car. And, whatever GB might advocate, no-one with serious kit to carry fills luggage space with an LPG tank.
If the car is being chosen for its performance, a few short journeys won't hurt it because it's going to get some decent exercise as well. And it if isn't going to be exercised, why bother with a performance car anyway? As for fuel costs for the short journeys, all cars are relatively heavy on fuel over a short trip, but the amount of fuel involved is still small, so why worry?
In any case, even with some short journeys, a 330d is still going to use significantly less fuel than a 330i. If he likes the 3 Touring, and it's big enough (big if, I think, if a 307 is not big enough) then one of those with a diesel engine looks a good bet.
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>> no-one with serious kit to carry fills luggage space with an LPG tank.
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And no one suggested he use anything but a toroidal tank in the spare wheel well.
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My spare wheel well has a spare wheel in it, but perhaps the BMW has run-flats - in which case does it even have a spare wheel well?
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ISTR BMW 5 series E60's having a spare wheel well, but can't remember about 3 series.
I mentioned the Legacy/Outback as it would have a suitable tank space, and LPG in general because it provides some alternative car choices for people like LL's friend who have certain requirements and may not for a variety of reasons want to go Diesel.
Incidenatlly pity Subaru didn't 'Dieselise' the flat six as well as the four, 3 litre Diesel with a proper auto box and full time 4WD.
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Fair enough, GB, but in this case diesel looks like the best solution: more economical for the short journeys and likely to get enough long runs to keep it sweet.
Outback might be fun, though, and probably has more room in the back than a 3.
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I think the 2.5 Outback is a good suggestion. Similar carrying capacity/mpg to a 330 petrol.
His only concern re 'running costs' is depreciation, which is why, like me, he prefers to buy privately at 6/7 yo. A Focus ST could be bought pretty cheap now, although mpg with short runs in the high teens is slightly off putting, and space wise is not much better than the family 307. In mitigation, he did have an RS2000 droop snoot many years ago of which he has fond memories, hence the ST idea.
My '04 330 has a space saver, as presumably does the estate version. I shall suggest he investigate any future DPF problems on the same era 330D, although I think the petrol would be cheaper to buy initially but cost more at the pumps, so a trade off.
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Volvo V50 ?
Go for R-design spec for that sporty feeling plus the D5 180 bhp motor. 40 mpg, reasonably brisk and that 5 cylinder engine should fit the bill.
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Thanks mikey
That suggestion was nowhere near either his, or my, radar.
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>> Volvo V50 ?
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>> Go for R-design spec for that sporty feeling plus the D5 180 bhp motor. 40
>> mpg, reasonably brisk and that 5 cylinder engine should fit the bill.
Nice car, but check the boot size and interior space with the seats down, because the V50 is very small inside, probably too small for four people and their sports gear.
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The 330i is capable of a genuine 30 mpg in daily use if the horses are spared. That is staggering for a 258 bhp petrol engine in 1500kg of car.
My neighbour sold his two years ago, and still talks about it fondly.
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...if the horses are spared...
...in which case is it still a 258bhp engine?
};---)
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>> ...in which case is it still a 258bhp engine?
Exactly, that is the whole point about having a car with a decent engine, enjoying the car for what it is, and a large part of that is the sound and resulting feel of a mutli cylinder engine being allowed to breath.
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Very good point gents, and I agree. However, there aren't many engines of that capacity and output that are capable of delivering economy of that level even if driven by the most determined mimser. I get the impression that you don't need to dawdle to see 30 mpg, just avoid driving the car hard, which on a commute isn't really a hardship.
When you do drive a BMW six hard of course, you are rewarded with one of the best sounds in the business. An impressive dual role car.
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I'm pretty sure that my '04 330Ci ragtop doesn't have 258 horses. I thought it was around 225, hence I would appreciate a further 80 in a slightly newer 335i.
Its lashing with rain here so I cba to go out to the garage and look in the handbook.
I average 30/32mpg, admittedly with little town driving, and I definitely don't mimse. Neither do I drive like a loony, but when conditions allow I like to make progress at the NSL ish. That is better mpg than my friends ex ST220, which, to be fair, was considerably larger.
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The E46 had 228 bhp (M54 engine) I believe. The E90 has either 256 bhp (N52 engine) or 272 bhp (N53 engine) depending on when it was made.
The M54 and N52 are corking engines. An out of warranty N53 seems to carry a high probability of open wallet surgery if internet anecdotes have any basis in truth. It has a sophisticated direct injection system that seems to be about as trustworthy as Nick Clegg.
Last edited by: DP on Thu 9 May 13 at 15:44
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Many thanks for that DP
The 335 has just over 300 horses, so I assume it does not the forewarned N53 engine. I am still a bit wary of turbo's though, the 335 having two of, as does the 330d. I could be tempted by the 330d, although doubtless it would cost more initially, yet have more favourable depreciation, slightly lower duty and better mpg.
I have absolutely no idea which would be the more reliable though!
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The 335i engine (N54) uses the block from the old M54 engine as it is apparently tougher, and more suited to turbocharging. Unfortunately, it also uses the direct fuel injection system from the N53, and as a result, suffers from the same issues. These issues relate to the High Pressure Fuel Pump (HFPF) and the eye-wateringly expensive piezo-crystal injectors used by this fuel system.
I am not normally this much of an anorak, but I researched this very carefully a couple of years ago as I was considering taking the car allowance and buying myself a 330i as it's always been on my want list. Couldn't make the sums work, and the reliability concerns on the later cars were enough to put me off, especially out of warranty.
If I found myself back running my own car, and with a smaller annual mileage, an E46 330i would be near the top of my list.
For what it's worth, a good mate of mine has a 2005 535d with the twin turbo diesel. It's done 140,000 miles now, still goes like something off a greased shovel, and apart from a set of glowplugs last year, has never needed anything other than routine servicing.
Last edited by: DP on Thu 9 May 13 at 17:07
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Strange you should say that DP. I also know someone with an 8yo 535d. High mileage and utterly reliable to date, from new.
In view of your comments, I'm probably best sticking with my current '04 330. Though the extra horses would be nice, any serious expense would not.
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Ford Mondeo III - Replacing an ST220 - Runfer D'Hills
