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I don't think it's actually reliability, whether a car let's the owner down or not, it encompasses faults and minor niggles and in such circumstances the premium brands often do relatively poorly as they set higher expectations in owner's minds which subsequently are harder to meet.
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It's just a PR exercise, not proper statistical analysis. The Skoda Kodiaq is 100% reliable, apparently. When did it come out, June?
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>>It's ... not proper statistical analysis
Yes, I'd like to see the 'n' number in these stats.
100% reliability from 10 cars doesn't mean much
100% reliability from 1000 would be stunning.
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My mistake, the Kodiaq is 79.6% reliable, apparently. Point stands.
I obviously don't want to believe I have spent a load of money on a poor car, but I am not under the common illusion that MX-5s are 'bullet proof'. But there is too much weirdness in there. Alfa beats HInda. Audi A3 saloon and several other models 100% reliable.
The MX-5 stat specifically refers to the 2015- model. Quite a few have been back and had the hood tweaked, which might or might not be of any relevance.
This is based on more or less anecdotal reports from presumably self selecting respondents, we don't know the response rates or the numbers per model. What number was low enough for the model to be excluded? Is any weighting given to the type of fault? Relative age of cars?
'Surveys' are a long-standing tradition in PR.
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>> Mrs RP was aghast !
If you want to wind her up further then you could tell her that the 2.0 cars that are raced, and a few presumably hard-driven road cars, have been breaking the gearbox.
Yours should have a modified gearbox. TSB: goo.gl/eJj3YP
You can actually see the label with the gearbox number on it by peering at the passenger side of the casing from under the bonnet. Not hard to snap it with a phone and confirm for yourself.
Don't drop the phone or you might be taking the undertray off:)
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Reliability and customer satisfaction aren't synonymous - expectation does drive different results I guess.
In saying that, Lexus owners expect faultless cars and fantastic customer service and obviously get it.
Very surprised with the MX5 - would be interesting if it's a single common fault or poor quality control overall.
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As is always the case with these surveys, you can shoot holes in them until the cows come home. E.g.
Soda Citigo. 3rd most reliable city car with 88.5%.
VW UP. Least reliable city car with 74.8%.
Er, they are identical apart from the badges.
Toyota Aygo. Most reliable city car with 100%
No mention of Citroen C1 or Peugeot 108.
Er, they are identical apart from the badges.
Least reliable SUV. Range Rover Sport with 14.5%!
Third least reliable SUV. Land Rover Discovery Sport with 43.8%
Worst performing Jeep. Renegade with 42.1%.
And yet Jeep as a manufacturer are ranked worse than Land Rover? How does that make sense (apart from maybe JLR spend more on adverts in What Car than Jeep)?
I was surprised to see Tesla ranked 3rd from bottom, seeing as they have so few mechanical bits in them to go wrong!
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>> Soda Citigo. 3rd most reliable city car with 88.5%.
>> VW UP. Least reliable city car with 74.8%.
>> Er, they are identical apart from the badges.
>>
That a perfect example of where expectations come in to it, people today still have higher expectations of VW than of Skoda.
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I'm not sure about that, Skoda's reliability problems are now more than 20 years ago aren't they, so the mud may still stick for us oldies but you should see the excitement on another forum about a cheap lease on a VRS.
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>> I'm not sure about that, >>
Take exactly the same car, if they can get £20k for it with a Seat or Skoda badge, they can get 22k with a VW badge and 24k with a Audi badge.
It's not directly to with the old Skoda jokes, it's brand perceptions, VW is still perceived as more premium so people have high expectations of it.
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Marketing and badge engineering, all on the same MQB platform based body shell and out of the same parts bin. Badges make profits. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 27 Oct 17 at 10:36
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I've got a lot of the same costly part on the Superb as I did on the A3. But also a lot more options. The Skoda is £1000 cheaper than the A3 saloon was 3 years ago but the spec is not directly comparable. Some of the things I've now got that I didn't before: memory seats, adaptive cruise control, high beam assist, active steering assist, blind spot monitoring and rear reversing aid, rear camera, better infotainment system, dynamic chassis control. The A3 with all of those would have been very expensive.
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Oh the shame!.....
www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/10766004/Does-my-Audi-have-a-Skoda-engine.html
Of course, it hurts when the Audi spare part costs twice as much as the Skoda one!
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A good friend of mine is a (very) senior engineer at VAG. He always has Skodas as his company cars. When I asked him why, because he could have anything they make, within reason, he said that "they are as good as anything else we make if you take out Porsche and Bentley, and they don't incur as much personal tax. No brainer. "
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The engine and DSG in my current Superb and the previous A3 will have both been made in the same Czech production plant.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 27 Oct 17 at 14:09
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Scooby doo:
tinyurl.com/y84evego
Last edited by: R.P. on Fri 27 Oct 17 at 21:57
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I was at a small, car parts manufacturer earlier this week.
They mentioned that the customer wouldn't pay for the refurbishment of their tool which meant that the parts being manufactured were not always meeting the original specifications and that could lead to oil leaks and too much oil entering the engine.
The tool is quite expensive at several £100k including design (R&D) costs and a refurbishment was about £5k would last for about 200k units, so about 3p per unit made.
The manufacture expects the part to be in production for several more years but no one at the car maker wants to sign off the cost of a new tool.
The company said several engines had been replaced due to the parts being out of spec and they still won't budge!
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The VAG TSI toothed chain problems were largely consequent on the worn out tooling that stamped out the links IIRC.
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Not a surprise, nothing has dropped off my Jazz. :-)
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If Volkswagen bought Honda, and continued to make the Jazz, would it be a Vagjazz..
No, never mind...as you were...
;-)
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If merc bought it, it would be the Mcjaz. With chips
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>> The VAG TSI toothed chain problems were largely consequent on the worn out tooling
>> that stamped out the links IIRC.
>>
Why VAG get the kudos they do surprises me. They are the car of choice for our fleet along with BMWs. Bloke in another department has a Tiguan. It cost more than my Tuscon, has far less standard equipment and has a 2 year 40k miles shorter warranty! The BIK and trade up is also a killer.
Of course as his is a company car, the warranty isn't an issue to him.
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My Jazz is now 5 years old. The only thing to have gone wrong is that the owner does not wash it very well. Original everything - even the wiper blades work as new..
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>>Original everything -
Pretty much the same with my Japanese barge, which I've had a little over 15 years now. Still the original clutch, exhaust, light bulbs, etc. And not a penny needing to be spent on the air conditioning so far.
Had a few replacement batteries though, and several wiper blades!
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Sun 29 Oct 17 at 15:05
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>> Had a few replacement batteries though, and several wiper blades!
>>
Our 12 year old, 105k mile 120i is on it's original battery and clutch and exhaust and front wiper blades (I swapped the rear wiper blade when I sold my 2010 123d so that's only seven years old) and has not had anything done to the aircon. Also I dont recall replacing any bulbs.
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>> >>Original everything -
>>
>> Pretty much the same with my Japanese barge, which I've had a little over 15
>> years now. Still the original clutch, exhaust, light bulbs, etc. And not a penny needing
>> to be spent on the air conditioning so far.
>>
>> Had a few replacement batteries though, and several wiper blades!
>>
Our 14 year old Toyota Yaris D4D has had the following:
front disks and pads.
about 5 sets of front ARB bushes (speedhumps and holes)
Heater resistor
rear spring
4 x glow plugs
3 new batteries..(the original Yuasa lasted 10 years).
air con regassed
2 sets wiper blades front and rear.
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M140i is doing OK after 7 months and 8k. Nothing has broken or fallen off, and I haven't had to do anything to it other than top up screenwash, fuel and tyre air, but it does have a few little niggles that I will need to get looked at at the first service. These are:
Brakes intermittently squeal loudly in reverse. Draws a lot of attention when parking up.
The odd clonk from the nearside front over really rough surfaces. Worse / more frequent in Sport mode (Adaptive suspension).
Potentially the most serious - the (in)famous ZF8 transmission whistle/whine has started to rear its ugly head. Noticeable in reverse, 1st and 2nd mostly, and again intermittently. T'internet suggests it's a pretty common issue, and not just limited to BMW applications of this transmission. I'm in touch with someone via another forum who is having the exact same issue, but unfortunately is having an absolute nightmare of a time with his dealer and BMW GB trying to get this sorted because it doesn't affect the operation of the transmission, and the noise has a subjective element. In short, they don't want to know. Waiting to see the outcome of this. I still maintain it is the best automatic transmission out there in terms of what it does, but it seems that it's not without its issues.
I am still glad I chose the car as it sticks a grin on my face when I drive it that most of the more reliable options simply wouldn't be able to, and I still relish the prospect of doing even the most mundane of journeys in it. However, I always said reliability would be the main criteria to determine whether I keep it at the end of the PCP, and while it's by no means a disaster, it isn't quite giving me all the confidence I need at this stage either.
Last edited by: DP on Tue 31 Oct 17 at 13:49
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Get a Merc next time DP.
They just sort of y'know, work.
;-)
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But the latest E-classes don't work very well - bottom of the pile in their class with 46% reliability. And Merc worse than BMW overall.
Just saying :-)
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Just as well I've got an "old" one then. That works.
;-)
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Part of the decision to go with the M140i was the sense of wanting to get in there while I could due to it being the end of an era. Its replacement will be four cylinder and AWD, just like everything else in the class, and the combination of the straight six and RWD really does make it feel (and sound) special. I was prepared to chance everything else, to be honest. Still look forward to driving it as much as I looked forward to the day I picked it up, which is not something I've ever been able to say about any other car after this period of ownership.
Based on previous experience, I know BMW reliability can be patchy. This one, for what it's worth has been far better than the E90 and one of the F30s that I had previously (although the second F30 was literally faultless).
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>> Get a Merc next time DP.
>>
>> They just sort of y'know, work.
>>
>> ;-)
well it does have less cylinders to go wrong
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>>
>>
>> well it does have less cylinders to go wrong
>>
Fewer cylinders Z, don't talk like wot a Merc owner would ...
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>> Fewer cylinders Z, don't talk like wot a Merc owner would ...
Dear me, here's how it works...
Skoda driver = would really have liked a VW but y'know, needs must
VW driver = would really have liked an Audi but, well, needs must
Audi driver = should've got a BMW but didn't know any better
BMW driver = wants to look like "somebody"
Merc driver = already is "somebody"
:-)))
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Don't you mean:
Skoda driver = would really have liked a VW but y'know, needs must
VW driver = would really have liked an Audi but, well, needs must
Audi driver = should've got a BMW but didn't know any better
BMW driver = is tasteful and discerning
Merc driver = does airport runs and weddings
;-)
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Let me think, erm, no...
;-)
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>> M140i is doing OK after 7 months and 8k. >>
Mines 26 months and 17k.
>> The odd clonk from the nearside front over really rough surfaces. Worse / more frequent
>> in Sport mode (Adaptive suspension).
>>
I have started to get that from the off side front, nothing major, just an occasional loose feeling over certain types of rut or ridge and more noticeable in Sport mode (also Adaptive). I have asked the dealer and they have said something about some tests they can do on the ramp, I am going to book in a while-u-wait to have this done.
>> Potentially the most serious - the (in)famous ZF8 transmission whistle/whine has started to rear its
>> ugly head. >>
I get a very slight whistle in reverse when cold, we have a longish drive so I usually have to reverse 50m ish from cold and with the radio off I notice this very slight whistle that is not there from hot.
The problem is more common on 140s and apprently even more so on 340s and there is some suggestion that it could be B58 related, the B58 has the timing chain etc on the rear of the engine above the bell housing (due to the B58, B48 etc modular concept) and some suggest that it might be the valve train that can be heard as the revs rise in low gears.
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Skoda driver = would really have liked a VW but y'know, needs must
VW driver = would really have liked an Audi but, well, needs must
Audi driver = should've got a BMW but didn't know any better
BMW driver = wants to look like "somebody"
Merc driver = already is "somebody"
Japanese driver = more concerned about getting to where they want to go; and getting back home again afterwards.
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Kind of agree, it's not much of a coincidence that the two cars I actually own are Japanese, the German one comes with the job.
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Skoda driver = wants a Polo but saves £5k.
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>> Skoda driver = would really have liked a VW but y'know, needs must
I chose the Superb over a Passat because I preferred the car. And it's available as a hatch so more practical.
I actually spec'd up a Passat estate to have close to the same spec as this Superb... it could have cost about £37.5k vs. £30.5k.
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>> I actually spec'd up a Passat estate to have close to the same spec as this Superb... it could have cost about £37.5k vs. £30.5k.
Fair enough, needs must eh?
;-)
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And mine (a 235 not x40) is 15 months old and has done 17k miles. So accumulating miles at a higher rate than the others on here? I don’t have adaptive suspension or an auto ‘box. Nothing’s gone wrong :) It’s been faultless, except for driver inflicted issues... a broken side window while I wasn’t even driving but mowing next to the car, and a cracked winsdcreen.
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Reverse OUT of the drive. Why not reverse in?
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>> Reverse OUT of the drive. Why not reverse in?>>
I reverse out of my drive. If I reverse in I can't place the car in the same diagonal parking position, as driving in as the front offside would be damaged by the low wall between mine and the adjoining property's drive.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Tue 31 Oct 17 at 23:30
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Whole new debate. We both used to reverse in, since the camper's gone, I drive in and can turn around on the drive to drive out. Reversing out into the lane isn't really an option, seeing as it the rural community's launch pad.
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Camper gone?
Wow, what will you do with the matching fleeces and bobble hats? ;-)
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Good God ! The only hat I've got is a cruddy old Dragon Rally hat !
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>> Camper gone?
>>
>> Wow, what will you do with the matching fleeces and bobble hats? ;-)
Can I have the little plastic fences and pot plants you used to put up round it?
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Does the wall move when you put it in reverse?
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>> Reverse OUT of the drive. Why not reverse in?
>>
There's some logic in that though it's actually easier to reverse out.
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Mrs RP insists on reversing into a parking space. I drive in.
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>> Mrs RP insists on reversing into a parking space. I drive in.
I do either, depending on whether I need to get to the boot or not.
I cringe when I see numpties pushing a shopping trolley between my car and theirs when they return with their shopping and have reversed into a parking space. Inevitably they are going to be more careful alongside their car than anyone else's.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 1 Nov 17 at 10:09
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>> >> Reverse OUT of the drive. Why not reverse in?
>> >>
>>
>> There's some logic in that though it's actually easier to reverse out.
Well I suppose you have more space to aim for. That worked well for my mother, who was never quite sure which way the car would end up pointing. Fortunately she didn't live in a cul-de-sac.
My logic is that there is no traffic in my drive, whereas there is on the road, so seeing where I am going is a bigger advantage.
Unfortunately this advantage is often negated by the plonker a couple of doors away who parks on the pavement, blocking the view down the road whether I am going out forwards or backwards.
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Traffic's not an issue, our drive comes out in to a kind of cul-de-sac, though the layout means it's much easier to drive in forwards and reverse out than to position the car so as to reverse in.
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Reversing into anything here is not needed as you can - with care - do a U turn in the yard without stopping.
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>> Traffic's not an issue, our drive comes out in to a kind of cul-de-sac, though
>> the layout means it's much easier to drive in forwards and reverse out than to
>> position the car so as to reverse in.
Similar in cul-de-sac with traffic not an issue but much easier to reverse in. One manouvre or other needs a wiggle. Much easier to do that arriving with a warm engine and clear glass than cold and steamed up.
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>>There's some logic in that though it's actually easier to reverse out. >>
Not if there's one or more big white Transit vans parked outside your property, blocking the view both ways and especially a junction 20 yards away on the other side of the road...:-(
It doesn't matter whether you reverse out or normally, you are virtually blind as to what traffic is in the vicinity and a 20mph speed limit is rarely adhered to by other drivers.
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>> The problem is more common on 140s and apprently even more so on 340s and
>> there is some suggestion that it could be B58 related, the B58 has the timing
>> chain etc on the rear of the engine above the bell housing (due to the
>> B58, B48 etc modular concept) and some suggest that it might be the valve train
>> that can be heard as the revs rise in low gears.
>>
I'm not convinced by that, as the noise never used to be there, and it also doesn't do it when revved in neutral. It does come and go though, which is a bit odd.
Loving the B58. It makes the whole car. The car needs an LSD badly though which I think I will end up doing in the new year (subject to a decent quarter at work to pay for it) :-)
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>> I'm not convinced by that, as the noise never used to be there, and it
>> also doesn't do it when revved in neutral. It does come and go though, which
>> is a bit odd.
>>
I'm not at all sure either though it's one theory I have read.
>> needs an LSD badly though which I think I will end up doing in the new year (subject to a
>> decent quarter at work to pay for it) :-)
>>
IIRC it's on lease, are you allowed to do that?
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It's on a PCP and would pretty much commit me to buying the car at the end. It's only if you return the car at the end that they care about the condition of it.
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Reliability surprises - Hard Cheese
