Thinking from Lygonos especially but all input appreciated!
Brother is now taking early semi-retirement - currently has a diesel Titanium C Max with 120k miles on the clock. Looking to get either full electric or PHEV.
Budget prob around £24k
Top off the realistic list seems to be the BMW 225xe just now and as Lygonos pointed out previously, there are some cracking ex demo and under 1 year deals doing the rounds.
Some specific questions from him on this model
How long does it take to charge at the various types of charger and what chargers can it use?
What should a car come with in the way of cables etc?
What is the real life electric only range?
What mpg would you get on a long motorway journey?
Do you get much braking from active regeneration to improve efficiency and save brake wear and tear?
Does the preconditioning both heat and cool and is it only available when plugged in?
Does the car connect to internet (to use app) over mobile network or WiFi and does this cost?
Other option he is looking at is the Kia Niro PHEV but is preferring the look and feel of the BMW. He realises that there is more and more electric vehicles coming but this is a here and now so need to look at what is currently available.
Any input appreciated - cheers
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>>How long does it take to charge at the various types of charger and what chargers can it use?
It max charges about 3kW, so a charge takes 2-3 hours from a granny socket or public charger - there is no facility to 'rapid charge' as the battery is only about 6kWh.
>>What should a car come with in the way of cables etc?
Cable to connect to a 3-pin socket. It doesn't routinely come with a type-2 lead for public chargers (which cost £100-150).
>>What is the real life electric only range?
15-20 miles in summer, 10-12 miles winter - It can go up to 78mph in pure EV mode.
>>What mpg would you get on a long motorway journey?
Assuming you've used up the battery, it manages 40-45mpg running as an ICE on the motorway.
>>Do you get much braking from active regeneration to improve efficiency and save brake wear and tear?
When you lift of the throttle it gives quite mild regen (or none at all in 'eco-pro' mode) - as you press the brake it dials in more regen then adds in friction braking depending how firm you push.
>>Does the preconditioning both heat and cool and is it only available when plugged in?
I never use this as the battery is so small and would eat up range - it heats/cools very quickly anyway once you get in.
>>Does the car connect to internet (to use app) over mobile network or WiFi and does this cost?
Don't know - don't use the app!
Over nearly 6000 miles I'm averaging 69mpg, which includes a lot more longer drives that was intended (missus is in hospital so hasn't been commuting in it since May).
Performance is lovely - 0-60 in 6.7s - much better than any of the other PHEVs.
The 225xe that have been built since July have a slightly bigger battery and can manage ~30 miles summer (so probably ~20 miles winter) but I think the drivetrain is otherwise the same.
Mine is this model - the tech specs shown are for the newest builds: tinyurl.com/y4d2aavj
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Thanks - I will pass this on and no doubt be back with more questions.
He is based down south so no chance of taking advantage of Scottish grants.
He is going to a dealer today to get a feel of them , size wise etc.
He would want the toys but I am swaying him away from M Sport models - does all the range come with runflats?
Assume they are better on 17" wheels?
The Luxe model has great spec but those multi spoke alloy wheels would really do my head in when it comes to cleaning. In fact, those wheels would be a deal stopper for me (I love the Y alloys on my X1 - can basically get actual hand into each "spoke" to clean .
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On my Ampera the brakes are showing barely any wear and it's a 2015 car, 45k miles. They are corroding away, literally, through lack of use - not an uncommon problem on PHEVs so I hear. The informal recommendation is to knock it into neutral when doing a long brake from high speed once in a while (as this stops any regen braking), to polish the discs up and reduce the risk of corrosion. Seriously!!
I know you are mostly petrol (or diesel) heads but I am now so used to the torque and quietness of electric (not to mention convenience, savings on running costs, and greenness of course) I wouldn't be keen to go back to a dino juice car.
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Cheers Smokie for info re brakes.
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>>The Luxe model has great spec
It has leather and some wood trim as standard.
I think the Sport Premium is the sweet spot - £500 more than Sport and comes with pano-sunroof, heated seats, front parking sensors.
Oddly although the mirrors are electric, they are not heated which is a pain on frosty mornings.
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>>Any thoughts??
£23,500 for a less-than-year-old 4k miler with decent spec.
I'd buy it.
They are so unloved at the moment as they aren't an SUV, but they are good cars.
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>>looking at what else Sytner has to offer, I'm sure this is a much better bet
>> www.sytner.co.uk/car-search/10336128-1230045-rolls-royce-cullinan-4dr-petrol/?supersearch=1
Don't waste your pension pot when it's much more affordable to lease...…..
www.hotukdeals.com/deals/bentley-mulsanne-saloon-lease-3266594
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>> www.hotukdeals.com/deals/bentley-mulsanne-saloon-lease-3266594
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I saw that and was quite tempted, but then noticed that it only came with a 5k p/a mileage allowance.
I would only be able to get to the end of my sweeping drive before I clocked up excess charges!
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 11 Aug 19 at 19:56
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www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201804265954472
Could get 10 of these for the cost of that 4 year lease...
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Oh that's nice.
Unfortunately cars used for company business have to be under 10 years old!
:-)
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>> (missus is in hospital so hasn't been commuting in it since May).
...haven't seen you touch on that elsewhere, but no-one else seems to have picked up.
Hope all is well, or maybe that should be as well as can be....
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>>maybe that should be as well as can be....
Aye - was diagnosed with acute leukaemia in May and basically getting rounds of chemo til Oct/Nov.
Proof of the pudding is likely to be in 2020/21 as it's fairly easy to get into remission (assuming you survive the chemo...) but staying there is the fun bit.
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The very best of luck and wishes to you both.
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...sorry to hear that, and all the best, of course.
Not a nice time for her, and, as is often overlooked, for you neither (I'm not sure whether a little professional knowledge is a good or bad thing in this case - possibly both in different contexts).
My daughter's partner's mother has been through similar in the last 5 or 6 years, and is in remission and luckily so far remaining there.
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Well I'm sure you are making sure she is getting the best the NHS can offer, and when they get it right, its damn good.
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Lygonos, wishing you and your family all the best, Z.
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Cheers to all.
So far so good.
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Cheers Doc for all the replies and help. Hope the missus improves soon.
Brother was going to test drive a 225xe yesterday but I have convinced him to hold off until he has fully researched all the options, toys etc and decide what his priorities are and then try and source one with them.
Question re the 4wd, electrics power rear and engine powers front? Does that mean that when the engine is running , it is generating electricity to drive the rear as well? I am thinking in snow, is there a way to ensure you have 4wd operating?
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>>Question re the 4wd, electrics power rear and engine powers front?
Correct.
>> Does that mean that when the engine is running , it is generating electricity to drive the rear as well?
Usually very little unless it is in "sport mode" where the engine runs in a lower gear and doesn't turn off at standstill.
>> I am thinking in snow, is there a way to ensure you have 4wd operating?
The above mentioned sport mode means 4wd - the throttle response is very sharp, especially from standstill, so longterm owners suggest not using sport mode, but just to let the car do what it wants when driving in snow.
Despite getting the car in December there was naff all snow this year so I don't really know (and the missus was using it during the week).
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It will be interesting to see how EV's batteries perform long term in the cold, I guess they must have been tested and there are plenty of Scandinavian countries that have a high proportion of EVs.
Winter temperatures and their effect on battery performance is not something I've heard discussed on TV/radio programmes when promoting EVs, although it might be that our winters are going to get warmer so could be a non-problem.
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Cold temperatures make them less efficient, and they can be damaged charging below freezing so need to warm up first. Cold itself does not accelerate battery degradation.
As for longevity my understanding is higher temperatures are the damaging factor, as well as leaving the batteries for prolonged periods at very low or high states of charge - current 'wisdom' is keep the battery between 20-80% nominal and degradation will be glacial.
There's a Finnish Model S taxi* that is now well over 250,000 miles with 93% initial range remaining, and a huge number of Priuses and Amperas well over 100k miles with no significant reports of battery loss - both have large chunks of unused battery capacity top and bottom and Amperas also have liquid thermal management to prevent overheating.
My B250e would only use 77% of nominal battery capacity for a regular 'full charge'.
* www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-400k-km-250k-mi-7-percent-battery-degradation/
p.s. Teslarati is a sickening fanboy Tesla/Elon Musk site as only the Yanks can manage, but this report is well known.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 12 Aug 19 at 22:27
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Dont use longevity of cells in laptops/pads/phones as a guide. Thermal management in those devices is very difficult. Thermal management of cells in cars is much much easier. And subsequently much more comprehensive.
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>>Dont use longevity of cells in laptops*/pads/phones as a guide. Thermal management in those devices is very difficult. Thermal management of cells in cars is much much easier. And subsequently much more comprehensive.
Absolutely Z, and also phone manufacturers don't care if the battery is shot after 2-3 years - using the entire battery capacity lets them boast of "24 hours of use" versus 20...
*of course Tesla use 21650 type cells similar to those in laptops for non-Model 3 (which use slightly chunkier 2170s)
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 12 Aug 19 at 22:33
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Mercedes Vision EQS concept capable of 700km on a single charge.
www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/14/700km_mercedes/
Love the holographic lens system that allows you to project satnav directions onto the road ahead.
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Some electric advice please - Lygonos
