I went out with mates the other night, including one who had flown in from Canada that day. We went to a local chain pub and had a meal and a few beers, it came to about £18 a head. My Canadian mate had cash, but the pub said they don't take cash.
Not a big deal as one of us stuck his bit on our card and he paid us the cash but talking around friends, people have different views.
My ex-banker mate said they aren't allowed to refuse it as it is legal tender - I think this is possibly untrue so long as they have signs up saying they don't take cash, but I'm unsure.
I barely ever carry cash these days as nearly everyone seems to be happy with me paying by "phone". The exception I can think of its the local chippy which won't take cards for under £10.
One small local retailer told me they HAD to now take cards for any transactions, however small. I'm not sure that's a legal requirement, maybe hos store chain, but I paid for something for 70p with the phone.
I know a number of oldies who struggle with using the phone to pay for parking. They'd sooner grumble like mad (repeatedly) rather than trying to follow the instructions!) and ignore that you can also pay by text or by calling a number (I understand!).
I know that cash suits some (and sometimes for very good reasons, but it does seem to be well on it's way out out of fashion now.
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I can just about remember a world before cash machines. A time when you had to go to the bank to draw cash and decided how much you would need until the next time you were going to go back and get more. Banks closed for lunch and for the day at 3.30 pm and were not open on Saturdays or Sundays.
You could use cheques of course for larger purchases, but most minor (and some major) transactions were cash.
I was talking to my son and his girlfriend about this the other day when they were bemoaning how much money they had got through at the weekend having been in restaurants, pubs and clubs tipping and tapping their phones and cards during it and getting more relaxed about that as the nights grew later.
I was moved to reminisce that by and large, we, at their age, took out what we imagined was a reasonable sum to cover the weekend on a Friday and had to make it last. Of course we were usually skint by Sunday mornings. ;-)
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If they have signs up saying card only before the the contract starts then they can legitimately refuse cash - we often see payment terms in contracts at work - payment by BACs required - no cash or cheques etc.
What they can't do is wait till you get to the end of the meal and suddenly announce "card only".
There are some YouTube twits that buy petrol then try to pay with obscure but legal tender coins like silver £50s. There are no signs at the pump saying card only or what denominations they will accept and they have dispensed the fuel.
Different in a shop where the contract is formed at the till - offer and acceptance, so at that point they can refuse to serve you - but they would need to put all the stock back.
Last edited by: zippy on Tue 20 Jun 23 at 11:08
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…oh and the other thing I remember is cigarette machines on walls in the street, I don’t smoke now but I did then, and can clearly remember popping a few coins in a machine to get a packet of ten Numbies. (Players No 6 for the uninitiated)
Of course you had to get 20 Rothmans or Dunhill or later, Marlboro reds if you were going on a posh date…
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Tue 20 Jun 23 at 11:08
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>> …oh and the other thing I remember is cigarette machines on walls in the street,
There's a memory. A Great Uncle, paternal grandmother's brother ran a tobacconist etc shop at the top of Salisbury Street in Blandford Forum. He had such a machine in the shop doorway for the passing trade when the pubs kicked out. He lived over the shop and was regularly infuriated by people shaking and or banging on the machine either becuase their half crown was stuck or the machine failed to dispensed the promised Woodbines.
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In 1980s Germany the fag machines took 1DM coins which just happened to be the same diameter, thickness and weight as a 5p.
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>> …oh and the other thing I remember is cigarette machines on walls in the street,
>> I don’t smoke now but I did then, and can clearly remember popping a few
>> coins in a machine to get a packet of ten Numbies.
Being older, a shop adjacent to my Junior School had such a machine. I’m sure you could buy cigs in packs of 5. I used to sell them in the playground...gave up cigs before I became a teenager. Tried a pipe, and snuff, and small cigarillos...and cider. By the age of 15 I’d given up on all those vices and have henceforth led a very abstemious lifestyle.
Apart from proper beer.
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I had to give up beer when I gave up the cigs. Beer is just too wet without a stogie to go with it!
;-)
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Quite a few places are card only. Probably started as a health precaution during the pandemic and stuck afterwards. On a motoring connection the M6 Toll is cards only/no cash even at the main carriageway plazas.
Like others I can recall the era before cash machines. Mum used to go to her bank and write a cheque for £30 cash to have money for a wek's housekeeping. although, by the time I started work, they we around but not that widespread. Until debit cards and chip/pin became common cash was very much king in pubs etc. Might use a credit card if we were out as a family and bill was going to be more than the £4-50 float I kept in my wallet.
I still keep a float of that sort of level and, having left them there once or twice after a holiday about the same in Euro.
Only place I've been recently that required cash was holiday accom, an upmarket hostel, on Uist. First 2 nights were booked/paid online but when we had to extend for a day due to CalMac's well publicised problems it had to be cash.
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During the pandemic quite a few of my regular watering holes became cashless and remain so today. The Royal Barn at Kirkby Lonsdale being the one I frequented on a weekly basis..KLBrewery ‘Devils Bridge IPA’ 5.2% is a fabulous citrus flavoured beer, not one for an afternoon session.
The Boathouse in Skipton, adjacent to the canal basin and looking across at the statue of Freddie Trueman, where I was sat outside drinking yesterday afternoon, only accepts card payments over £5. Tiller Pin ( Wishbone brewery) is always on tap at £3.50 pint, together with several other good beers. Bags of flavour with Chinook, Citra and Cascade hops. Marvellous.
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"My ex-banker mate said they aren't allowed to refuse it as it is legal tender - I think this is possibly untrue so long as they have signs up saying they don't take cash, but I'm unsure."
They can refuse to accept whatever they like. If they don't want to take cash they don't have to nor indeed do they have to accept all denominations or coins. If they dont want to accept your £50 note they don't have to.
They can accept whatever they want to as payment. Credit cards, foreign currency, gold bars or Monopoly money if they want to.
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If they haven pre told you they dont take cash, and you offer to pay with cash and they refuse, has an offence of not paying been committed if you walk out?
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If you leave the cash on the table, I suspect not.
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>> Yes
>>
I get it's in the realm of 'what if...' but how would you pay if the only method of payment you had the store refused? Sign something saying you agree to pay later using a diff method?
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In any case it's a civil matter, not criminal. Which I am sure our friends in blue would tell the proprietors if the police were called.
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I've got 71p in my pocket at the moment and that feels odd, I usually just whip out a debit card.
I remember as a young lad, Saturday was the supermarket and market day and that always started with the old man withdrawing £50 from an ATM in Stockport which probably went a long way in the late 70s.
For me, earning started in the mid 80s at Asda, shelf-stacking Thursday/Friday evening and all Saturday. That brown envelope and £45 was a wonderful moment. An achievement. I didn't have an bank account until I started at Uni. And a summer job netted me about £200 a week in that brown envelope. Boy, was I flush or what? No rent, no mortgage, no outgoings and no wife. The top drawer of my desk was packed with cash that I just couldn't spend although I know some of it did disappear occasionally with their spiralling credit card problems. It never bothered me.
Cash was fab in those days.
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>> For me, earning started in the mid 80s at Asda, shelf-stacking Thursday/Friday evening and all
>> Saturday. That brown envelope and £45 was a wonderful moment. An achievement. I didn't have
>> an bank account until I started at Uni. And a summer job netted me about
>> £200 a week in that brown envelope. Boy, was I flush or what? No rent,
>> no mortgage, no outgoings and no wife.
When I lived at home, I had you give my mother money for my 'keep'. So far as I know all my friends had to do the same.
When did this practice stop? Because it seems to have stopped as far as I can tell.
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>>When I lived at home, I had you give my mother money for my 'keep'. So far as I know all my friends had to do the >>same.
In my day it was a third of whatever I brought home.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Tue 20 Jun 23 at 14:15
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I suppose electronic wages contributed to that stopping, more recently high house prices.
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>> When I lived at home, I had you give my mother money for my 'keep'.
>> So far as I know all my friends had to do the same.
>>
>> When did this practice stop? Because it seems to have stopped as far as I
>> can tell.
It's certainly less common than it was 40 years ago when by cohort started work. I think though that, to some extent, the prevalence of cards, apps and internet shopping means that perhaps contribution is by paying for things rather than a found amount every week/month.
When benefit checks disclose the presence of a 'non-dependant' adult then we would ask if they contribute. It's quite frightening, even when they're on a good wage, youngsters - mostly males it seems - do not contribute.
If the householder is on benefits, either Universal Credit or Housing Benefit, the eligibility calculation assumes that, in most cases they contribute to the rent. In HB the calculation takes account of their earnings but in Universal Credit it's a flat £86/month even if they're on UC/JSA etc themselves. There are some exceptions for young adults and various disability benefits including PIP/DLA etc. are concerned.
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The newsagents I work in doesn't take cards, cash only. Same with the Chinese take-away down the road and at least one other small shop.
I prefer to use cash for day to day expenses, cards for the bigger stuff. Although the look on a salesman's face when he hands you the card reader and you're instead holding a big wad of twenties can be quite amusing.
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>> The newsagents I work in doesn't take cards, cash only. Same with the Chinese take-away
>> down the road and at least one other small shop.
I can think of a couple of places that only take cash, cheques or tick. One is a greengrocers, no idea how many people bought a bag apples and paid by cheque.
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>>I've got 71p in my pocket at the moment and that feels odd, I usually just whip out a debit card.
I was worried there for a moment as to what you were going to tell us you were going to whip out ;>)
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Tue 20 Jun 23 at 14:14
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Several friends pay for beer using apps on their phones. One pint at a time, so that’s a lot of transactions per month.
I’m in the minority because I check my monthly credit and current account statements, and my Revolut when overseas. A lot don’t. In a previous life I worked in retail, with up to 4 sets of shop accounts to do a trial balance every week...normally on a Sunday morning, so it’s ingrained.
95% of the time I use cash for small transactions...I’ll go out with a £20 note, always sufficient for either 4 or 5 pints depending on where I’m drinking, and when it’s gone it’s gone. So I never get too giddy. And fewer receipts to check against my statement.
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Pre-covid I used to draw £200 cash out of hole in the wall each month. This would be used for all minor expenses - newspapers, coffee, beer, small purchases below ~£20 etc. Why £200 a time - it would be immediately evident if looking at my bank statements there were anomalies.
I now draw £200 out every 3 or 4 months. The main reason for using cash is now to accumulate change for car parks - although these are rapidly becoming app based.
Cash is dying and will soon be dead. A card or smartphone has replaced notes and coins. All have almost zero intrinsic value - they are just plastic, paper or a few digital blips needed as a common means of exchange for real goods and services in any developed society.
The big concern is what happens if there is an IT or Internet meltdown lasting more than a few hours or days. The infrastructure, upon which modern human existence relies for keeping shops stocked, electricity and water flowing, cars refuelled etc etc will simply collapse.
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I get suspicious in this day and age of any retailer that only takes cash and doesn’t take card.
My local Chinese being one of them! I complained to him saying I rarely carry cash so he gave me his bank details so anytime I order I just transfer the money!! Of course it’s his personal account!
But his food is great.
On a side note, new fridge freezer got delivered yesterday. Delivery guys were really good. It wasn’t till they were leaving and being very polite and nice that I realised they were probably looking for a tip.
Did not have a single penny of cash in the house never mind any notes! I thanked them instead. Sincerely.
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>> I get suspicious in this day and age of any retailer that only takes cash
Declaring earnings to the tax man and all that!
>>! Of course it’s his personal account!
Could be a legitimate sole trader.
>>
>> But his food is great.
Same with our local Chinese and pizza place.
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The Chinese do have a massive culture of gambling.
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>> Cash is dying and will soon be dead.
>>
>> The big concern is what happens if there is an IT or Internet meltdown lasting
>> more than a few hours or days.
Just recall the TSB meltdown a few years back.
The bank software consists of loads of different systems that are cobbled together.
I work in a small division of a bank and we get daily notifications of failed processes, crashes, system outages, 3rd party process providers (SAS type services) out etc. and that's just the area I'm interested in. I have, on occasion, opened the report for the wider bank it is truly worrying.
And as for other businesses, I visit companies regularly. Software is an afterthought, the number of businesses that don't keep back ups is frightening. There are numerous businesses that have no fall back position if their systems fail.
Then there is wholesale reliance on 3rd party software like Xero accounts, which is 100% cloud based. I have no idea re the financial status of Xero, but neither do most of the companies that rely on them and don't know if they are even viable and likely to last as a key software provider.
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Is cash still king? - Runfer D'Hills
