I've heard so many conflicting arguments about if branded diesel is better than Supermarket diesel or if it's just the same.
I'm not asking about petrol - purely DIESEL. What are peoples opinions/findings on the matter?
Thanks
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I can't remember all the points but the annoying one when filling up is Morrissons don't (or didn't, haven't owned diseasal in years) use the anti-foaming additive.
Coupled with the wrong filler neck (as on '04 Corsa SXi) == foam overflow every time starting from 1/4 tank filled.
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It all meets the EN 590 spec which is what diesels use, so it is all OK for my car, and none of it has ever given me any problems over hundreds of thousands of miles.
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Whatever fuel you buy it will meet the BS specification for that fuel. It is thought that supermarket diesel can be not as good as premium brands as the latter may have superior additives put into the mix on delivery to the garage.
Some people think that using Millers Diesel Plus 4 additive raises the inferior diesel to a better quality at a cost of less than the 4 or 5 p perlitre charged at the pumps for the superioir brand. It costs £12.99 to treat 500 litres of diesel with Millers. This is information not a recommendation BTW!
Beaten to the post by ON!
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Sat 23 Oct 10 at 16:08
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Filled up today. Supermarket price was the same as local filling station price. If I go out of my way I can say 1p per litre. I did get 5p / litre off though as there was the occasional money off offer on.
The days of petrol / diesel being cheaper at the supermarket are over. Maybe the conspiracy theory is true (having killed off the competition etc) or maybe the locally owned petrol station has vanished and they're all chains with the same buying power as the supermarkets?
John
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I seldom use supermarkets for fuel, not because I believe it to e inferior, but simply because they are invariably congested and have long queues at the pumps. Would sooner pay a penny or two more per litre to visit an accessible and well laid out site. Much the same reason I would sooner visit Waitrose than Asda for my groceries. Sometimes for me its worth paying a bit more for a little less hassle.
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I'd certainly agree with that, though I'm a Sbys shopper myself. Pulled straight up to the pump. The "fill me" beep had been nagging for a day or two so the choice was limited :-)
John
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Maybe the
>> conspiracy theory is true or maybe the locally owned
>> petrol station has vanished and they're all chains with the same buying power as the
>> supermarkets?
More likely the supermarkets have had their fingers burned a couple of time through selling crap fuel, and now don't try to cut corners when adding aromatics.
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My experience is some fill-ups give a tiny bit more mileage than others, but there's no pattern.
I don't think supermarket diesel is inferior, but neither do I think you get exactly the same fuel every time you visit.
Same applies to filling stations.
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I've mentioned this before but hey why not...
As some of you will recall, I ran a Mondeo diesel for years over huge mileages and logged its fuel consumption and mileage daily. Now I have a Qashqai and monitor its consumption and mileage similarly religiously.
The Nissan cares not a jot what kind of diesel it is given. It performs identically irrespective of brand.
The Ford however, consistently runs rougher and achieves fewer mpg on Morrisons diesel. Oddly enough it runs best on Sainsburys and Shell. "Super" diesels such as Shell V power and BP Ultimate don't improve its mpg but do give it noticeably more power and a smoother delivery.
I don't know why this is true but as far as the mpg element is concerned I can at least prove it to myself over a very long survey period.
The Qashqai must be much more tolerant of any differences.
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Did they both have common rail engines, Humph?
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>> because they are invariably congested
In my town, Shell is cheapest [even cheaper than supermarkets] and unless I visit them in un-social hours, there's always long queue!
For this reason I use either supermarket or a Texaco which offers cut price fuel 2 days a week.
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>> Did they both have common rail engines, Humph?
Yes the Mondeo is a TDCi and the Qashqai has a 2.0 Renault derived engine I think, although I try not to dwell on that last bit...
Why do you ask ON ? Do you have a theory ?
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>> Why do you ask ON ? Do you have a theory ?
>>
No, just wondered if you were comparing engines of similar technology. Although the Squashy is a generation or two on from the Mondy.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 23 Oct 10 at 22:13
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I can't figure it either to be honest but my little pedantic notebooks seem to prove the point. Subjectively, I get more smoke under load from Morrisons diesel too on the Mondy. Impossible to tell on the Nissan as it is a non-smoker.
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>> it runs best on Sainsburys and Shell.
As did my old Mondeo 1.8TD, strangely enough, and particularly on the former. Always felt noticeably perkier, and a lot smoother. This was an ancient pre-CR engine with no relation to the TDCi in your Mondeo.
In my experience, the VW PD doesn't care what's put in it. Neither does Renault's 1.9dCi
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>> >> it runs best on Sainsburys and Shell.
Mt 330d also ran best on Sainsburys or Shell, it didn't need the premium priced stuff either (I firmly subscribe to the What-Car test results implying this gives little or no benefit and merely separates the gullible from their money).
The 330d gave the worst mpg on Morrisons (I started to avoid this where possible) and gave middling mpg on Tesco or BP diesel. The difference between Shell and Morrisons was perhaps as much as 4mpg.
My 170PD in my A4 was thirsty (and uncouth) whatever you put in it, even trying premium diesels it was 10%-15% thirstier than the BMW which is 40% more powerful and infinitely more refined, I will now forever avoid PD engines.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Sun 24 Oct 10 at 04:35
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...I will now forever avoid PD engines...
And they blow up if they don't get the right oil at service time and pints and pints of the stuff in between.
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>>And they blow up if they don't get the right oil at service time and pints and pints of the stuff in between.
Put 40k on a Fabia PD engine, 25k on a Beetle PD engine and so far 45k on an Altea PD engine.
Have never had to put so much as a pint of oil in any of them between services.
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Yup me too. Passat gets checked regularly though I don't know why because it never needs oil between services. 130 PD.
John
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My 130 Golf's oil level drops from Max to about half way between (10k) services i.e. it doesn't need topping up. It has now done 110,000 miles.
Yes it's a bit rough 'n gruff, but midrange acceleration like this and 50 mpg still impress me even after nearly 2 years. The refinement shortcomings are partly countered by the fact that you can accelerate briskly all the way to a whisker over 100 mph without ever exceeding 3000 RPM. I love this engine.
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Having had my credit card details nicked at a Texaco station followed by a couple of dodgy transactions which were nothing to do with me, and knowing about the Shell station issue - I only use supermarkets for fuel. The hope is that there's less chance of trouble.
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My 170PD A4 used to drink 1L of expensive VW507 oil every 7K miles and I was told that this wasn't bad for this engine. My 330d (by comparison) did not use enough to warrant a top-up of oil in 23K miles and didn't require its first oil change until 22K miles, the oil was in a much less sooty state too - and (given my past experience), I checked the 330d regularly - if only because I couldn't believe it wasn't using oil.
I've driven 130PDs (Golf IV, A4 B6) and the 115PD (A4 B5) beforehand and agree that they were economical and likeable with good power delivery in their rather gruff way, not so sure that the 140PD or 170PD deserve the same accolade though ?
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It is interesting to read comments regarding Morrisons. My 520d I ran on Morrisons and BP from new, depending on who was nearest when I needed to fill up.
This was purely done for the benefits of the respective loyalty schemes, with the Morrisons one being pretty good. However, after a short while it was clear the car hated the Morrisons stuff. It actually felt and sounded like the car was 'pinking'. I then went to Tesco and have found that the car actually seems to perform more smoothly on this than standard BP diesel.
I occasionally throw in a tank of BP ultimate. It makes no difference either to performance or fuel economy but I feel that a bit of extra-nice stuff after a mainly supermarket diet may help the engine along.
Probably has no effect at all, but make me feel better!
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I use Morrisons & Tescos fuel because of the loyalty schemes. Occasionally I run low at an inconvenient time and put branded fuel into the car.
Never noticed any difference at all between any of them, TBH.
Maybe, I'd be more wary of supermarket fuel if I had a petrol engine in my car, but since it is just a diesel lump I am not bothered.
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I normally use Shell because I distrust the additive packages in supermarket fuels, and because it's more convenient and the same price as my local Tesco.
For similar reasons, one in every four or five tanks is the Super version of the diesel. I'm fairly sure that the engine runs a bit smoother on super, but I'm also fairly sure that's a placebo effect. Supermarket seems fine, it's just my prejudice on additives that puts me off.
I did manage to measure a 2% improvement using BP super over normal, but there's nowhere convenient that sells it. Haven't tried to measure the difference with Shell. I just use it to keep everything clean.
Only fuel I've ever experienced a real difference with was Total, when the car felt like there was something wrong with it for the whole tank. Haven't used it again, and it was fine as soon as I refuelled, so I've always wondered if there was something wrong with that batch?
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I normally use Esso diesel because it is handy and the cheapest for me. Sometimes use Total and had no problems in my Skoda PD. Supermarket fuel queues- urgh...
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Queues further added to by people who leave their cars on the pumps while they do a week's food shop in the convenience store. GRRRRRRRR!
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>> It is interesting to read comments regarding Morrisons.
I filled up at a Morrison's, nearly 18 gallons of their diesel. It almost sounds as if there's "pinking", but this is occasionally noticable generally. I will run it nearly empty, and try some of this "super" stuff.
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Shell or BP at Co-op - mainly 'cos I'm a stingy git and get points with both and Shell is generally cheaper around here.
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All the problems that people in general have in the UK with diesel cars leads me to believe that diesel in Germany/Holland is of far better quality we do have the same problems as the UK but in much smaller quantites as born out with the ADAC/TUV breakdown and warranty analysis.
I think diesels in the UK when they are out of warranty then one should stay clear what you might save on the mileage most will certainly loose when they have to buy one of the many expensive parts that seem to go hand in hand with owning such cars.
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>> All the problems that people in general have in the UK with diesel cars leads
>> me to believe that diesel in Germany/Holland is of far better quality we do have
>> the same problems as the UK but in much smaller quantites as born out with
>> the ADAC/TUV breakdown and warranty analysis.
Check out the various links on youtube of BMW's, Renaults, Peugeot's etc from Europe, with their engines on terminal runaway blow up.
Its nothing to do with the fuel, but entirely to do with the strict adherence to servicing.
The fact the cost of servicing is cheaper abroad may well be a factor
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>> I think diesels in the UK when they are out of warranty then one should
>> stay clear what you might save on the mileage most will certainly loose when they
>> have to buy one of the many expensive parts that seem to go hand in
>> hand with owning such cars.
>>
Cobblers, I have owned nine diesel cars, each run to about 100,000 miles. I have yet to have an engine related problem. The ones that fail must be the ones that are not serviced or have been run on petrol.
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You say cobblers but this and other sites are full of of people with used diesels facing megga bills for repairs, not unheard of but rare in Germany so there is a common problem.I agree that a properly serviced car is going to be more reliable something UK glass palaces have not been doing for ages I too have run diesels well into mega mileage in fact we have my old XM still in the family with over 500000km on the clock.Many company cars are given back by the lease companies at three years old and many have over 100k miles but if you look at the service records they probably have had a couple of oil changes and thats all and then starts the problems as born out by this and many other UK forums.I am not saying that the quality of cheap fuel in the UK is the only problem but it has to be one of the main constituents I have noticed many times as have other people when visiting the UK the mpg drops of if one uses cheap diesel that is available at a lot of supermarkets something we do not have in Germany apart from one or two most fuel is the proper branded article.
I would also have thought that service costs are probably dearer in Germany and Holland but not wages.
Last edited by: Collos on Tue 26 Oct 10 at 19:30
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>> You say cobblers but this and other sites are full of of people with used
>> diesels facing megga bills for repairs,
Yes we do get one occasionally, can't remember the last one though.
And what about the hundreds of thousands of owners who have cars that are not a problem and don't post on forums?
The roads of Europe (or the UK) are not littered with dead diesels.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 26 Oct 10 at 20:20
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Bit late, but I second Humph's observation:
>>The Ford however, consistently runs rougher and achieves fewer mpg on Morrisons diesel.
Except that it was Asda diesel, in my case, that the Ford 2.0 TDCi didn't like. I once filled up at Asda because it was nearest and the tank was nearly empty. The car ran so badly I was about to book it into Ford for diagnosis, but I remembered just in time that it was probably a case of Asda diesel syndrome. After refilling with Shell Diesel Extra (which doesn't exist any longer), problem disappeared. On the other hand, I have used loads of supermarket diesel in France with no problems. Are there some additives that some engines won't tolerate? Or is it a lack of additives in the cheapest stuff that causes the problem?
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Heh heh ! - I prefer to imagine that my Mondeo is a sensitive thoroughbred...
:-)
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>> And what about the hundreds of thousands of owners who have cars that are not a problem and don't post on forums?>>
As you rightly point out, those who acquire goods or services without any problems (it's the least expected) rarely broadcast their experiences, only those who feel the need to raise complaints.
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I belong in that group!
I have lived in France for 14 years and have had four diesel engined cars. I buy the bog standard gas-oil (diesel) from supermarkets and add 1.ml of acetone per litre of fuel. Works a treat, see <www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/>.
There is a warning about E95 bio, not suitable for older cars (pre 2000).
>>
>> And what about the hundreds of thousands of owners who have cars that are not
>> a problem and don't post on forums?
>>
>> The roads of Europe (or the UK) are not littered with dead diesels.
>>
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Collos
Sorry, but I've had great difficulty trying to read your lengthy comment because of the failure to use shorter sentences and punctuation...:-)
Last edited by: Stuartli on Tue 26 Oct 10 at 21:58
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youdonthavetodealwiththeinternetgenerationveryoftenyouluckysod:-)collo
s'scommentisawalkintheparkcomparedtothemwonderwhatitwilllooklikewithtx
tspkwitoutpunktationorevnprprspelin
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hehadbetterwatchoutoriffywillbedemandingthatheisbannedormaybeforcedtoa
ttendoneofhisclassesbeforeheisallowedtopostagainpersonallyidonthaveapr
oblemwithitbutblimeythespellcheckerhasgoneapesheetoverthisone.
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butitwrappeditat71charsforyousoitlooksquiteneatpossiblyevenefficientin
acoldgermanicsortofwaynooffencetoanygermanstheresnowtwrongwithyourster
eotypeevenifyoudohaveacompanycalledmcpaperwiththeconnotationsbeingscot
tisharepennypinchers
Last edited by: Skoda on Tue 26 Oct 10 at 22:15
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whoareyoucallingcoldlygermanicanymoreofthiscrapandIwillbecomingroundth
eretorearrangeyourtypingfingersyoumiserablegit.
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maybeiffuisrightdonttellhimthooughhewillbeunberable
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Does anyone have a spare keyboard?
Zero seems to have broken the spacebar!
Last edited by: swiss tony on Tue 26 Oct 10 at 22:30
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I am using the spar on now, but thr is a problm with it, the is missing. At last th spacbar works.
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>> I am using the spar on now, but thr is a problm with it, the
>> is missing. At last th spacbar works.
>>
Classic!
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...Collos..Sorry, but I've had great difficulty trying to read your lengthy comment because of the failure to use shorter sentences and punctuation...:-)....
...hehadbetterwatchoutoriffywillbedemandingthatheisbanned...
Colloscouldhavewritten:
You say cobblers, but this and other sites are full of of people with used diesels facing mega bills for repairs.
Not unheard of, but rare in Germany so there is a common problem.
I agree that a properly serviced car is going to be more reliable - something UK glass palaces have not been doing for ages
I too have run diesels well into mega-mileage.
We have my old XM still in the family with over 500000km on the clock.
Many company cars are given back by the lease companies at three-years-old, and many have over 100k miles.
If you look at the service records they probably have had a couple of oil changes and that's all.
Then the problems start, as born out by this and many other UK forums.
I am not saying that the quality of cheap fuel in the UK is the only problem, but it has to be one of the main constituents.
I have noticed many times - as have other people - when visiting the UK the mpg drops if one uses cheap supermarket diesel.
We do not have that in Germany, apart from one or two.
Most fuel is the proper branded article.
I would also have thought that service costs are probably dearer in Germany and Holland, but not wages.
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I have to admit that both my company diesels were on variable servicing regimes mandated by the leasing company.
With my 330d the oil actually seemed pretty clean even after 22K miles but the service was little more than an oil and filter change and had it been my own car I would definitely have changed the oil at 12K miles or whatever. I was still considering buying the car at the end of its lease before my circumstances changed. However I guess the long service interval was a testament to my driving pattern and style. My A4 B7 was a different matter, the oil was like sooty treacle within 4K miles of a service and there was no-way I'd have bought this car.
As for diesel, from an MPG perspective I learned to avoid Morrisons but found Sainsburys and Shell (and even Tescos) to be fine, not sure whether this would have had any long term effect on the cars as the fuels are all supposed to be to the same BSxxxx standard?
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Wed 27 Oct 10 at 02:50
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That is the most blatant piece of plagiarism I have ever seen.
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My puncuation does not alter the fact that most uk supermarket diesel is at best rubbish.
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It also doesn't alter the fact that at best, that statement is rubbish.
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I am with Zero
Last 2 company cars . .
Honda covered 126k - no issues and almost exclusively run on supermarket (Sainsbury) diesel
Skoda currently done 68k (2 1/2 years) and almost exclusively run on supermarket (Sainsbury) diesel
No engine issues at all.
Sister's last Focus - over 100k miles run on Morrisons diesel (she works for them)
Her current golf (around 20k at 6 months) - no issues, again run on Morrisons diesel.
I have not noticed any difference between UK and French diesel.
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I always use the cheapest fuel I can find and I have never experienced any problems as a result of using cheap fuel, both petrol and diesel.
The longevity, performance, consumption and reliability are all, in my belief unaffected by the cost of the fuel.
It is a myth put about by the oil companies, and perpetuated by people like HJ, amongst others.
Bah! Humbug! If it was good enough for my grandfather, then it's......................
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Once a year I try Shell premium diesel and religiously log consumption.
And again report little if any difference on the same routes/style etc.
This is an old thread and my answer is teh same as when it started.. Sainsbury = Shell = BP as far as our cars go..
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It's a thread that's so old, I can't even remember writing my comments on it....:-)
butisupposeitwillcomebacktomegiventhenecessarytimeandmotivation.
By the way, I use Tesco's Momentum in my 1.4-litre 170PS VW TSi engine - it runs as sweet as a nut.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Wed 13 Aug 14 at 11:05
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The only time I've ever noticed a difference was when "low sulphur" diesel first came in. The diesel Discovery I had at the time went noticeably better on the full fat version and as the local Esso station sold it longer than anyone else on my route, I used that. And with a 19.5 gallon tank, it could go a long way between fill ups. Once towed a Morgan from St Albans to Scotland and only filled up again at Motherwell.
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Likewise Stuart, my Octavia FSI prefers 98 Ron or above so it usually gets Tesco Momentum. It will tolerate ordinary petrol, but definitely doesn't run so smoothly.
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Only time I've noticed a difference was with my smart roadster. It used to run much better on shell vpower and gave a good 3 or 4 mpg better than on the supermarket stuff.
Think all the diesels i've had have shown no difference
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Supermarket Diesel vs Branded Diesel - Skoda
