| Motoring Discussion > New vs Used | Buying / Selling |
| Thread Author: Stuu | Replies: 79 |
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New Sat 27 Nov 10 19:11
New vs Used - Stuu
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I thought of contributing to the thread drift that started with main dealer servicing, but thought it more polite to give this debate some space of its own. I see one of our number wont buy something that isnt new. Interesting since its only new the day you collect it, well actually the day it drives off the production line. We have spread our bets with our cars. I run an old banger, one of those £500, well actually £400, 'death traps' that sound more dangerous than dancing on a train track. Hmm. We also bought my wife a brand new car, 5 year warranty, totally hassle free ownership although tbh, the Daewoo isnt bad ( the CAT has sprung a leak today though, will see if it will limp to the new year ). We will keep the Sirion indefinately, such is their reputation for reliability, so it will, in time, become a £500 banger, although it will be an exceptionally well maintained one in close to as new condition. My wife didnt buy it as an act of extravagance, but due to her previous car ( Picanto ) springing a gearbox leak, she lost confidence in it and made the decision to buy a new car that was a known quantity both personally and as a design. She will have paid for it in 2 years time but its only £135 a month so very affordable. Re servicing, I take my cars to my indy who at £35 an hour does a reasonable job for reasonable prices. My wifes car goes main dealer but I always ring the three dealers within reasonable distance to get the best price. Whether I will bother with this once the warranty is finished will depend on finances as while my indy would be cheaper, the main dealers do free loan cars, which is helpful, whereas my indy requires a two of us to drop the car off and collect it. Personally, I dont think spending more than £1000 on a car is worth it UNLESS you buy a new car and keep it until the end of its working life because you extract maximum value from the initial expense. |
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New Sat 27 Nov 10 20:40
New vs Used - -
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Buying used is always a gamble, you can use your loaf to try and lessen the risk of getting a pup or being turned over. However i've always previously bought used, the pick up was the first new vehicle for me and that would have been a used example if new wasn't cheaper, glad Top Gear didn't air that North Pole trip 2 weeks earlier, phew. I wouldn't be too quick to take a car out of the dealer's hands when warranty is out, far better chance of some goodwill from the maker in the event of something going awry once warranty ends if you keep with them, for maybe a year after at least?...obviously you have to work out the risks versus the likely savings. I haven't driven bangernomics for some years, i had enough of fixing rusting heaps in my kerbside cowboy days to last me a lifetime...maybe finances will force me down that road again, who knows. |
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New Sat 27 Nov 10 20:53
New vs Used - nyx2k
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I wouldn't be too quick to take a car out of the dealer's hands when warranty is out, far better chance of some goodwill from the maker in the event of something going awry once warranty ends if you keep with them, for maybe a year after at least?...obviously you have to work out the risks versus the likely savings. That's why i change them at 2-3 yrs old. no risk of the thing dieing after the warranty runs out |
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New Sat 27 Nov 10 21:03
New vs Used - Zero
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99.9% of them dont die when the warranty runs out., Lets have a practical example We bought a 6 month old car and saved 3.5k over the cost of new. Nothing went wrong with it. We sold it at the same price had we bought it new. That's a saving of over £500 a year, in effect a weeks holiday each year paid for. And that is the experience of most people who buy second hand. What's to argue with that? There is only one justification for buying a new car, that's because you want one and you have no better place for your money. There is nearly always a better place for your money unless you have enough not to worry about it. Last edited by: Zero on Sat 27 Nov 10 at 21:04
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New Sat 27 Nov 10 21:14
New vs Used - Londoner
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Stu, you did well to start a new thread on this. I always buy new cars and keep them a long time, but I am thinking of buying a nearly-new car next time. It doesn't seem to be a clear cut decision though, TBH. The main advantages of a nearly-new car for me are: 1) I get a lot more car for my budget. 2) Most of the warranty still remains on the car. 3) Nearly new feels like brand new anyway. 4) When I test drive the car, then I will be testing the car that I will actually be buying, as opposed to an example that the factory deign to supply me (Got burned a bit by this last time). 5) No long wait between putting in the order for the car and collecting it. 6) Someone else has already taken a big hit in depreciation in the value of the car. The main disadvantage: 1) I will find it hard to get the exact spec that I want. For example, I want an Audi, but not with sports suspension("S-line"). Looking at the cars for sale, however, the great majority seem to come with sports suspension. 2) The indefinable pleasure of being the first owner. Knowing the car's history, and how it has been looked after gives me peace of mind. 3) You miss out on special promotions on new cars, such as servicing packages. Unknown factors: 1) Is the dealer just as willing to negotiate on the price of a used car, as on a new one. |
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New Sat 27 Nov 10 21:24
New vs Used - nyx2k
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That's a saving of over £500 a year, in effect a weeks holiday each year paid for. yes and my rationale is that's only a saving of £10. not worth the "perceived" risk of getting my fingers burned for the sake of £10-£30 per week. |
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New Sat 27 Nov 10 21:35
New vs Used - Zero
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>> That's a saving of over £500 a year, in effect a weeks holiday each year >> paid for. >> >> yes and my rationale is that's only a saving of £10. not worth the "perceived" >> risk of getting my fingers burned for the sake of £10-£30 per week. No, your rational does not add up to that. If you out your car after two years thats 1500 - 1700 a year. Its still 3,500 - you cant dilute that. |
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New Sat 27 Nov 10 23:18
New vs Used - nyx2k
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Its still 3,500 - you cant dilute that. But i dont intend to dilute the figures. that is still only £30 a week. not a lot of money to own a modern car with its reliability and strentgh built in. To me that £30 is worth every penny and will always be worth it until i get a bad car from new that makes me think that it may no longer be worth it, but as said before ive never had a bad new car and the peice of mind is worth at least £30pw |
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New Sat 27 Nov 10 23:35
New vs Used - John H
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>> that is still only £30 a week. not a lot of money to own a >> modern car with its reliability and strentgh built in. >> nyz2k - do you own the same car that Zero is talking about? If not then the £30 a week may be too high or too little a figure. What make/model car do you buy every 2 or 3 years? As for the whole discussion about new vs used, I think it is pointless. Some people are rich enough not to worry about paying an extra 330 or £100 or £1000 per week to fund a brand new car. some people are poor but still borrow money at silly interest rates to fund their expensive "new" car fetish or habit. We have to remember that the mugs who buy new cars make it possible for the money savvy people to buy those cars as second-hand cast-offs at bargain prices. ;-) You pays your money and takes your choice. That is as long as you do not declare yourself bankrupt and pass the cost of your expensive habit to the rest of us. Last edited by: John H on Sat 27 Nov 10 at 23:35
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 00:54
New vs Used - Pat
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I currently have two cars, both bought new (one is 10 years old and one is 4 years old). But previously I have always bought used, with varying luck. The best used cars I have bought have been high mileage, ex-company cars with 'proper' FSH - these were great value and relatively trouble-free. The worst ones were main dealer cars when I paid top dollar for the perceived advantage of quality and back-up. Regarding nearly new cars it depends on the sort of saving you can make, because in my experience main dealers overprice such cars, especially ex-demos. It's often possible to buy a brand new factory order car via a broker for the same price (or less) as the dealer wants for a 6 month old hack that Uncle Tom Cobley and all have driven. I also think some people exaggerate their savings with used cars because they forget to factor in the cost of replacement tyres, exhaust, brake pads, MOTs etc, never mind the hassle. At the moment, buying new and keeping it for a long time works for me, but I keep an open mind about buying used. At the end of the day both types of buyer depend on each other! |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 03:30
New vs Used - idle_chatterer
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I've bought both new and used cars over time and have had good and bad experiences with both. My fundamental problem is that I get bored with a car after 2 years (unless it's exceptional or financial circumstances dictate otherwise), this means the 'buy new and keep it until it drops' approach doesn't work for me. The most troublesome cars I've ever had have been bought new, the warrantee / dealer service counting for little when the car is a dud. Either way it costs money, I tend to choose the car I want then obtain it via whatever route (new or used) appears most cost effective at the time, if I can't afford to buy the car then I don't - quite simple really, no need for extortionate interest payments (or any in fact) with a little self control. The biggest 'problem' I have with second hand cars is the specification, often manufacturers will leave off something I require e.g. Skoda with airbags/ESP or Ford (for a long time) with ESP. Clearly most punters don't care or notice these things (I'll accept I'm a pedant) so I have to search hard for new-ish (less than 12 month old) used cars which meet my (peculiar perhaps) requirements. In the end it's a personal choice how people spend their money, I might (for instance) suggest that Sky TV subscriptions, Football Season Tickets, Golfing, pet dogs or Cigarettes are a profligate waste as they're things I wouldn't dream of shelling out for, but I (honestly) don't.... The one comment I would add is that I strongly believe that people should spend their own (saved) money however they like, borrowing other people's money got the UK into it's current predicament IMHO. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 05:55
New vs Used - AnotherJohnH
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As ever, there's another way - pre-registered, or end of line - new, but not quite. Choice is limited to what's there, and when it's there, but a large franchise can get something near(er) to your specification if they can be bothered to search the company database and transport a car in for you from elsewhere. SWMBO's Škoda Fabia in March 2009 was new. £8k5 for 1.2 petrol estate with metallic paint and aircon - a cancelled order from elsewhere, coincident with the dealers having a push to meet the financial year end targets (maybe), and not much money was being spent. The salesman actually made an effort. My Grande Punto a couple of months ago was new. £7k5 for 1.4 petrol. End of line. I would have got one with 5 doors ideally, but it's primarily for one or two to use, so it doesn't matter too much except for getting used to very wide doors. They were both around 3/4 of their full list price, although it must be said Škoda were doing their "VAT off" thing at the time. Fabia was probably the better deal. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 07:43
New vs Used - L'escargot
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Firstly you're unlikely to get your choice of optional extras on a used car, and secondly you won't know how a used car has been treated by previous owners.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sun 28 Nov 10 at 07:44
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 08:04
New vs Used - -
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>> secondly you won't know how a used car has been treated by previous owners. >> That's the compelling reason, though it depends on the type of car being considered. Usual rental or rep type stuff are pretty tough and one would hope designed to be driven hard, they will have in most cases so it goes with the territory. More luxurious cars should also be a fairly good bet if they've been serviced properly. Maybe it's in the more unusual vehicles, eg offroaders, towcars, small cars (first and youngsters) and especially sporty jobbies that previous owners could well have given them more than the usual abuse amd neglect. Fast sporty stuff are the likeliest for previous abuse, few buy a Scooby Evo or hot hatch to mimse about. There's other things to consider, misfuelling, ringed or cloned, unrecorded accident damage, false servicing records etc. As ever it's the unwary that get caught out. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 10:23
New vs Used - Stuu
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I think there is a common misconception that any type of use can cause catastrohic wear to a car, so all used cars will be on their last legs. Ive never accepted this. I have bought alot of lower miles, near or full history cars quite cheaply and other than routine service parts and the odd consumable such as exhausts, ive never suffered a failure of a major component because it was abused by a previous owner. I do tend to buy cars owned by older, middle class owners because they tend to be reasonably car-friendly, continue to spend money on the car beyond economic repair if they wish to continue running it and tend not to rag it about too much. Im always very picky about what ill buy, which is why often the precise make and model plays second fiddle to the condition, history and recent money spent on a car. I play at the cheap end of the car market, so the main priority is that it starts and wont cost the earth to keep going. Truth is, most decently engineered cars will take a fair degree of punishment and neglect, so the odd missed oil change often doesnt mean imminent demise. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 10:42
New vs Used - Runfer D'Hills
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For me it has always been about what felt right on the day. I've always had fairly specific requirements from my cars in terms of their practicality but I'm also fond of toys. I tend to start with my budget and then see how close I can get to what I want/need for that. Sometimes it has been a new car, sometimes it has been used. Nature of my hugely fluctuating income over the years has meant a similarly wildly fluctuating budget. Only caveat I enforce is never ever to take out finance on a car. I just can't get my head round borrowing money on something which depreciates. I know there are good arguments for and against that view but I'm much more comfortable to only pay what I can afford at the time. Main reason being that just because I've had a good year one year it doesn't necessarily follow that such fortune will be a continuing scenario. Resultantly, I've bought new, used and very used at different times and really don't have a problem with any of those routes as long as it gets me something suitable within my budget at the time. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 11:25
New vs Used - Clk Sec
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| Had plenty of old bangers in the £20 - £350 region in my younger days, but more recently its either new, nearly new or pre-registered for me. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 11:34
New vs Used - L'escargot
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>> I think there is a common misconception that any type of use can cause catastrohic >> wear to a car, so all used cars will be on their last legs. I thought that when I bought my first new car ~ a Singer Chamois ~ and I used to thrash it unmercilously. After 15,000 miles the valves had stretched to the extent that the valve clearance (achieved by fitting different shims) could no longer be adjusted, and it needed a new set of valves. I sold it soon afterwards so what the rest of the car was like I never found out. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 12:00
New vs Used - Zero
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I dont have any problem with the "buying new" concept. Its nice to have a brand new car. It is, however, complete fiscal madness to sell it on every 2.9 years, just because the warranty is running out. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 12:46
New vs Used - RattleandSmoke
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I bought new because the used values on a nearly new Panda is virtually the same as what you can buy it new for anyway with a big discount. Personally though if I move away from the city car class I think I will be buying nearly new in future unless I can get a decent discount. I;ve always been against buying new and I broke my golden rule but I am very glad I did. With the winter dirt it looks anything but new at the moment though! There was a very nice feeling of getting the car mid May and finding date codes all over the car saying April 2010 i.e as soon as it was it was shipped to me. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 12:47
New vs Used - RattleandSmoke
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| If people have the money then it is up to them what they want to do it with it I suppose. Some pople say it is mad to have a brand new car when I only do 5k a year but to me the sums work in my favour and I get to drive in a newish (6 months old now) car. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 12:54
New vs Used - Iffy
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...It is, however, complete fiscal madness to sell it on every 2.9 years, just because the warranty is running out... I kept my last Focus for seven years, but there were concerns in the back of my mind about the cost of a major mechanical failure. What if the engine blew up? Fairly rare, but if it did, the bill for a new engine would be several thousand. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 12:59
New vs Used - L'escargot
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>> I kept my last Focus for seven years, but there were concerns in the back >> of my mind about the cost of a major mechanical failure. >> >> What if the engine blew up? My Focus is over 7 years old. Because it's not worth very much now, apart from the inconvenience I don't think it would matter too much if the engine did blow up. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 13:00
New vs Used - Zero
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>> What if the engine blew up? >> >> Fairly rare, but if it did, the bill for a new engine would be several >> thousand. which is offset by not having to finance depreciation of more than several thousands. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 13:07
New vs Used - RattleandSmoke
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| It depends on the car too, the more expensive the car is new then I think it makes less sense to buy new. It does largely depend on the car though, a Golf may be a decent buy new because they hold their value. A Sao Penza is certainly not! |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 13:27
New vs Used - mikeyb
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I have had old bangers, ex lease auction stuff, pre reg and new - For me it depends which fits my needs and gives the best overall deal at the time. The Mrs Sharan was pre reg - the dealer was helpful, and they had a stock list of cancelled / odd spec cars and after a bit of negotiation we found one that was almost the right spec - we wanted climate control, but this just had manual aircon. The overiding factor was they would sell me a pre reg (effectivly 6 week old) model for 6K under list and £500 less than motorpoint wanted for a 12 month old 10K miles one (probably ex hire car) - also gave a very generous part ex so no other deal came close. My C5 was a new factory order due to my choice of options, but being leased it worked out far cheaper than I could have bought one for, in fact it still worked out cheaper that I could have got a used one for. Leasing costs have gone up since and I now wouldnt get a C5 as the cost is to high, in fact if leasing costs stay where they are in 18 months time then I cant see me doing it again - some of the manufacturers 0% deals now make more sense. Think my most satisfying purchase was a £4K 4 year old ex lease A4. First time I took a punt at auction and although this one had a few minor battle scars and 125K on the clock it had a very full service history with loads spent six weeks before its Auction entry on things like new discs / pads, tyres etc. Gave me 2.5 years / 35K of trouble free service and I wish we had kept it to see how long it went on for, but itchy feet got the better of me |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 13:38
New vs Used - movilogo
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>> 99.9% of them dont die when the warranty runs out., That works well in insurers' advantage! The 0.1% of them which go wrong, might bring nightmare to owners. For primary car, I prefer to buy nearly new cars which is still under warranty and will be in next couple of years *. This will give me the peace of mind that if something goes wrong, it will be covered and if the car appears too problematic then I can always sell it after warranty expires. When I'm buying a stand-by car, I won't mind buying a banger and take the risk. * = at present, only Kia/Hyundai fits into this bracket (that's why my current car is Kia). In near future, Daihatsu/Toyota will also fall in this category. Last edited by: movilogo on Sun 28 Nov 10 at 13:40
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 13:47
New vs Used - nyx2k
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| my wife says she can remember all the new cars bought,sold and px prices since 1995 so if anyones interested i'll get her to write them out for me later and we can see how much it's cost in 15yrs of new car owning |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 13:50
New vs Used - Zero
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| that would be an interesting exercise. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 13:58
New vs Used - BiggerBadderDave
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| I saved about £55k on my current car by buying at 6 years old. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 14:04
New vs Used - nyx2k
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my dad did that with his xj-r. i think it was £70k new with the options but bought it at 5yrs old for something like £10k with jaguar full history and low miles. i can see the sense in saving such a large amount of money for getting a second car but would never go that way again for a run of the mill familty car at around £15k or less |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 19:08
New vs Used - Londoner
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I think that the "buy new, and keep a long time" strategy can work well, but there are pitfalls. My last three cars have been bought using this strategy. The first two times, it worked well. I kept the cars until they started costing a lot of money to repair, and liked owning them. Not so lucky with the current car, though. True, it has been very reliable but I don't like it at all, and I'd love to get rid of it, however I can't afford to. I can't get a replacement until I have saved up enough cash-in-hand to buy another one. It reminds me of the old saying: "Marry in haste, repent at leisure" :-) *chuckles* |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 22:52
New vs Used - Bigtee
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For years it was old bangers and kept them for 4-6 years,But then i fell in the trap as i see it i earned the cash and had nothing better to spend it on so bought new & a mistake it was.!! Next one is the one i have now got at 18 months old with 5k Vectra diesel & intention is to keep it 7+ as it ticks all the boxes which first is comfort, second large practical boot space, and good economy, fast speed don't matter. My mate has to get shut every 2 years 4 months last 2x been mercedes but on finance and selling with just 28k seems a waste of money to me, Keep it at least 5 years. I do think many want to see a new car parked on the drive to impress the neighbours & the finance company love this lot, If i can't buy it cash i don't want it that went for the new one too. |
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New Sun 28 Nov 10 23:20
New vs Used - Londoner
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>> Next one is the one i have now got at 18 months old with 5k >> Vectra diesel & intention is to keep it 7+ as it ticks all the boxes >> which first is comfort, second large practical boot space, and good economy, fast speed don't >> matter. Well said, Bigtee! I agree with all those criteria, and I would add one more: Must not be ugly! (Vectra passes that test as well, IMO) >> If i can't buy it >> cash i don't want it that went for the new one too. >> Absolutely right! My parents didn't have much money, and they taught me to avoid credit and cut mu coat according to its cloth. I know there will always be exceptions, but generally if you haven't got the money for an item, then you can't afford it. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 07:28
New vs Used - Fenlander
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>>>taught me to avoid credit and cut mu coat according to its cloth... >>>if you haven't got the money for an item, then you can't afford it. No not quite true. My lease (3+35 agreement) deposit on my new car 11mths ago was only £850 to have a £23k car delivered to the drive. Was it having something I couldn't afford? Not at all. It was a far better plan to have a known fixed monthly motoring payment and keep our cash for more important projects. Also the total lease payments over 3yrs come to less than the depreciation I'd expect to suffer as a private person so actually it was financially prudent for the family coffers. Credit isn't evil and used properly now and again can make you profits/save money. Nothing to be ashamed of. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 09:45
New vs Used - Londoner
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Like I said in my post above, Fenlander, "I know there will always be exceptions.." However, my own experience is that whenever I or SWMBO buy a car, the salesman always insists on offering finance/HP deals, and they ALWAYS follow the same pattern for me as a mere private motorist. Something along the lines of.... "Here is a car with a 20K list price, Sir. Would you like to buy it cash for 18K, or take out finance and pay 23K over three years?" With a 5K net difference in price, I pay cash. Other people think differently. All I know is that my way, I don't get into financial difficulties. The only reasonable finance deal that I can remember seeing that I'd have been remotely interested in was when Mercedes were running out the old-model CLK. They were offering a 35K car for about 30k ON FINANCE. Loved the car, but that's a tad dear for me. :-( |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 09:55
New vs Used - Iffy
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Leasing is effectively renting, you have nothing to show for the payments at the end of the agreement, other than having had use of the asset. If, as Fenlander says, the combined payments are less than the depreciation, maybe leasing does make sense. Although it rarely makes sense to borrow your own money. There must be an interest element in the lease which will be at a higher rate than you are likely to achieve on your savings. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 09:56
New vs Used - Fenlander
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>>>for me as a mere private motorist. As I am. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 10:06
New vs Used - Fenlander
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>>>you have nothing to show for the payments at the end of the agreement, other than having had use of the asset. Yep exactly... cars are never an investment... we buy them for the use they give us. My total lease payments inc deposit amount to about £10,700. If I owned the car and wanted to trade it in now after 12mths it would have lost £10,000 already. So looking forward to the end of lease I will have paid far less than a private buyer would have lost even including allowance for a cash purchase discount. And for me the most important thing is I won't be touting a 45K mls large complex car around to trade in. Plus I've had the £20k+ it would have cost in the bank to use for any purpose over that 3yrs... interest on that would have been a positive factor years ago but not really worth counting these days. The biggest indicator of new vs used for me will come at the end of lease. I could well be able to buy this one for about the same cost as getting a new lease one for a further 3yrs. If I did buy it my only gain over the period could then be its residual used value at 6yrs old. The losses against that could be the costs associated with running it from 45k-90k out of warranty. Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 29 Nov 10 at 10:09
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 10:09
New vs Used - Suppose
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>> However, my own experience is that whenever I or SWMBO buy a car, the salesman >> always insists on offering finance/HP deals, and they ALWAYS follow the same pattern for me >> as a mere private motorist. >> Try Lings cars next time for a quote. If you already have the cash, you have to work out which is the better deal for you, i.e. work out the opportunity cost: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 10:18
New vs Used - Old Sock
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I have never been (nor, short of winning the Lottery, will ever be) in a position to afford a brand-new car. For many people, there is simply no option but to buy the hand-me-downs (or is it hands-me-down?) of those higher up the food chain. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 10:28
New vs Used - madf
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>> I have never been (nor, short of winning the Lottery, will ever be) in a >> position to afford a brand-new car. >> >> For many people, there is simply no option but to buy the hand-me-downs (or is >> it hands-me-down?) of those higher up the food chain. >> I think of it rather differently than that.. Others have kindly spent their money looking after the car so I can buy it cheaply... |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 10:45
New vs Used - Fenlander
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I was really just cautioning about the *I only buy a car with my own cash* view. New suits me at this moment but 3yrs ago I had an 9yr old Xantia estate worth £1200. Next change in 2yrs is really up in the air... just down to what I want/need and the figures at the time really. I would not be the slighest bit bothered if it is something 5yrs old... I absolutely do not consider used cars as in some way second class. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 10:53
New vs Used - Stuu
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I know someone who bought a Jag X-Type 4wd, 6 years old, 35k. It is mint and I mean virtually no mark to tell it apart from new, having been owned by an old couple from new. It has full history, jag history no less and all its had since buying is a service. The cost - £6500. He said it drives like new and looking at the car, its easy to believe. So really, he has saved the best part of £20k and got a car thats 99% as good as a new one. Its a nice colour, lovely spec, the model he wanted. Doesnt seem like much of a compromise to me, can do alot with £20k spare. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 10:56
New vs Used - Iffy
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...I absolutely do not consider used cars as in some way second class... I don't think anyone does, do they? At our level it's all much of a muchness. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 11:20
New vs Used - Fenlander
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>>>At our level it's all much of a muchness. Yes I've said that for decades. Be it a £1k used car, a budget lease at £140/mth or a £20k new one or £400/mth lease you stretch a bit to afford it's all broadly speaking middle range. I drive past a house every day on the school run where the cars on the drive would total 2 million plus.... and a couple of other vehicles worth 1 million plus... now that really is a class above in expenditure terms. Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 29 Nov 10 at 11:22
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 11:27
New vs Used - Iffy
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....I drive past a house every day on the school run where the cars on the drive would total 2 million plus.... and a couple of other vehicles worth 1 million plus... So that's where Chris Evans keeps all his Ferraris. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 11:33
New vs Used - L'escargot
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>> I drive past a house every day on the school run where the cars on >> the drive would total 2 million plus.... and a couple of other vehicles worth 1 >> million plus... now that really is a class above in expenditure terms. Showoffs. If the owners really had class, their cars would be kept in garages. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 11:39
New vs Used - Iffy
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...If the owners really had class... Since when has money been able to buy class? If I drove past that house in my Ford, I would feel poorer, but far superior. :) |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:03
New vs Used - Fenlander
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I think Chris Evans stuff would top that by a mile. I've wondered for years why these people have the stuff placed out in the day though... despite their very tall elec gates it must be a theft magnet?? Even google streetview by chance leaves them very exposed. They have 6 garages so I guess everything is away at night though. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:16
New vs Used - Iffy
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...They have 6 garages so I guess everything is away at night though... Perhaps they're full and all you can see is the overspill. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:24
New vs Used - Fenlander
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| Ahhh.... perhaps they keep the Morris Minor and MGB etc in the garages?? Or matbe they just have a lot of mowers, strimmers, bike racks, lifejackets, excercise bikes etc?? |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:29
New vs Used - BiggerBadderDave
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| Is this The Bishop's Avenue by any chance? |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:36
New vs Used - Fenlander
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| No... oddly it is a very nice but somewhat unassuming modern place in a nice but not startling village near us. There are bigger houses in the road but most of them make do with stuff in the £10k-£30k range. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 11:38
New vs Used - WillDeBeest
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But Stu, it's simplistic to argue that your friend has paid £6,500 for the same thing as others paid £20,000 for. The Jaguar may appear as good as new now, but it won't be at ten years old and it'll be time to replace it. At that point it might be worth £2,000 and your friend will have had four years' use of it for £4,500, or £1,125 p.a. The original owner might have kept it, and got ten years' use for £18,000, or £1,800 p.a. More, yes, but not orders of magnitude more. And what does that extra buy you? A well-maintained car in late middle age may look and go well, but it is not as good as new. My eight-year-old S60 has been used and maintained well but no-one - with the gratifying exception of a teenage cricketer I drove to a match last summer - would mistake it for a new one. The car's also had its first major wear-and-tear repair recently, with the inconvenience that entails, so I'm under no illusions that I'm getting as good an experience as I did when the car was in its first six years. What's my point here? That you pay less when you buy used, but that you get less too, in terms of the best usable years of the car's life. It is not, as some might have you believe, something for nothing. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 11:55
New vs Used - Suppose
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>> At that point it might be worth £2,000 and your friend will have had four >> years' use of it for £4,500, or £1,125 p.a. The original owner might have kept >> it, and got ten years' use for £18,000, or £1,800 p.a. More, yes, but not >> orders of magnitude more. >> £1800 vs £1125, that is £675 more p.a. = 60% more p.a.! Looks like you are doing man-maths, and plucking figures out of thin air to make a case, which turns out to be paper thin when the 60% figure is taken account of. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:15
New vs Used - WillDeBeest
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| No, Suppose, I'm doing nothing of the kind. The only number I've estimated - hardly 'plucked out of the air' is the value of a ten-year-old X-type. The rest is pure calculation. And I'm not making a case either way, merely pointing out that while you pay more for the early phase of ownership, you also get more. Owning a car for all of its useful life rather than 40% of it costs more; so does buying new tyres rather than part-worn. A part-worn car is cheaper but it is cheaper for a reason, which is where you have to balance cost against value. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:24
New vs Used - Suppose
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>> does buying new tyres rather than part-worn. A part-worn car is cheaper but it is >> cheaper for a reason, which is where you have to balance cost against value. >> Your argument holds true if depreciation was linear, whereas in real life it is exponential. And bringing part-worn tyres in to the discussion is a spurious comparison. All IMO. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:27
New vs Used - Fenlander
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£1800 vs £1125, that is £675 more p.a. = 60% more p.a.! That's only like three drivethrough maccydee meals a week! |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:33
New vs Used - RattleandSmoke
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I applied similar logic to my Panda, I paid £6400 for it, I plan to keep it for 8 years and even in 8 years it will be worth £1k with a full MOT providing we still have oil. That is a cost of £675 a year and for a while I would have got to enjoy a new car out of it. I could have bought a £3000 Panda on a 56 plate but the overall cost would be the same as it wouldn't have lasted me as long and I would have had the pleasure of buying somebody elses problem. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:45
New vs Used - Stuu
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Thing is though, if you do a like for like basis, ie you buy the same car, one new, one used and run it for the same period, the used Jag IS cheaper. Of course your buying into a different part of the cars life cycle, but so what? So long as the car performs its task, which is transport, it does the same thing regardless of age. If you buy a car, keep it two years, I somewhat doubt that the new car will be more cost effective than a 6 year old one. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:49
New vs Used - RattleandSmoke
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And that to me is the crucial point. Buying new makes a lot more sense as a long term purchase rather than something to change in two years. Buying a £60k Jag new and then plan to sell it on two years time is madness. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:37
New vs Used - WillDeBeest
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And bringing part-worn tyres in to the discussion is a spurious comparison. How, exactly? A tyre has a finite useful life, beyond which it is worth only the value of the materials it's made of. The same is true of a car. The first user of either benefits from the best part of that useful life; second and subsequent users get progressively thinner slices but pay less for them. In either case, the second user could be getting a trouble-free bargain or a horror whose first user got rid of it just in time. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 12:52
New vs Used - Bagpuss
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I've owned all sorts of cars from new to used to borderline roadworthy. Some of the really old ones turned out to be surprisingly useful, such as a 17 year old Polo that cost peanuts but refused to die and long outlived its role as an emergency runabout during a time in life when money was extremely tight. I have a company car at the moment which is nice but if circumstances were to change I couldn't imagine replacing it with a new car bought with my own money. Cars are so good these days I'd rather let someone else take the 60% depreciation hit for the first 3 years, run it in for me, and then I'll buy it. One thing I don't scrimp on though is tyres. Had a bad experience with some brand new chinese ditchfinders I fitted to a nicely run in (135,000 mile Mondeo). Never again. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 13:03
New vs Used - madf
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"Cars are so good these days I'd rather let someone else take the 60% depreciation hit for the first 3 years, run it in for me, and then I'll buy it." Succintly put... |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 13:27
New vs Used - Dog
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Bought my 5 year old Almera 1.8SE auto for £8k when it was 1.5 years young. Would have cost about £12k new. It still had 1.5 years warantee left and has been a real diamond since we've owned it. I have bought the last 3 cars from a dealer who specialises in ex Motability jobbies. All cars are one owner low mileage pain dealer serviced etc., etc., etc. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 13:57
New vs Used - Londoner
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Like I said upthread, the only way that I would buy used would be from a dealer, and then only a nearly new low-mileage car. I'm no mechanic or expert, I don't know how to read the signs that a car has problems. (I don't even realise whether I'm in A FWD or RWD car. for heavens sake, unless there is snow on the ground!) I've several friends who have had very mixed experiences buying used. To read this thread, you'd think that nobody ever had a bad experience buying a used car. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 14:00
New vs Used - madf
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>> >> To read this thread, >> you'd think that nobody ever had a bad experience buying a used car. >> I think the reality is that most people on this thread buying used cars: 1. have lots of experience doing it 2. Probably had one bad experience.. and learned from it. 3. Keep them selves au fait with current car issues and finally but most importantly 5. Do their homework thoroughly. eg see People on HJ buying cars and asking for help after 1 week! |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 19:09
New vs Used - Stuu
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Quite. To read the help pages with new cars and the recalls, I dont feel Im loosing much with my old shed. Ive owned ALOT of old cars. Ive also worked in the industry for my whole adult life, so maybe ive seen more and learnt more than the average buyer. Maybe thats why buying old cars doesnt worry me. Its a calculated risk. Just have to make sure you can add up. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 19:25
New vs Used - Dog
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>>Ive also worked in the industry for my whole adult life, so maybe ive seen more and learnt more than the average buyer<< If that's the case stu - how come you ends up with a Daiwoe Expresso? :) |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 21:47
New vs Used - Stuu
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>>If that's the case stu - how come you ends up with a Daiwoe Expresso?<< Because I know its generic GM stuff underneath which means basically sound and cheap to fix if it needs bits. I also owned a '99 Nubira estate 8 years ago and a Matiz before that, so Im well aquainted with the brand. Both served me very well. Main reason of course is that I love buying the cars others are too scared to buy, which makes them cheap. Im more scared of Renault, Citroen and Fiat than I am of a Proton, Hyundai or a Daewoo. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 21:48
New vs Used - rtj70
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>> Proton A Mitsubishi then. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 21:51
New vs Used - Stuu
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| Exactly, which makes the people who recoil in horror look rather silly to me. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 22:05
New vs Used - Dog
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>>Im more scared of Renault, Citroen and Fiat than I am of a Proton, Hyundai or a Daewoo.<< Yes! I'm with you there matey, and I've worked on enough of em, my mate Don had a brand new Nexia once - he was well pleased with it. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 19:26
New vs Used - Clk Sec
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>>I dont feel Im loosing much with my old shed. I don't think you are, Stu. tinyurl.com/33xlkme |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 19:26
New vs Used - Bagpuss
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Only time I really had my fingers burned was a long time ago buying an ex-demo from a local main dealer. I decided to upgrade from banger territory to something as good as new, or at least that's what I thought. In practice I was blinded by the glass and steel showroom and what I ended up with was almost certainly not an ex-demo and had almost certainly been clocked. After that I went back to bangers. The MD of the dealership in question ended up serving time for fraud. There is clearly a risk buying used even from a dealer but I think these days I'd take the risk. I wouldn't want to tar the entire motoring trade with the same brush following this experience by the way. I've always been amazed when looking at used cars from private sellers what supposedly respectable people are prepared to do (obvious clocking including new pedal rubbers, badly repaired accident damage on a car that's never had a smash) to try and con someone into a sale. I assume that's what they also do when they sell their houses. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 21:59
New vs Used - RattleandSmoke
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I've had a lot of bad experiences all documented on HJ and this site over the past almost four years. First car - I was stupid, very stupid, just went past a garage selling this Fiesta for £400, I had £400 in my bank (I was quite cash rich before I had cars!) and arranged for them to drive it to my house as I could not drive. A few weeks later discovered the garage had put stop smoke in the engine to disguise the fact there was nothing left of the piston rings, amazingly my dad ended up running this car for a few months and got 3000 miles out of it before the engine died. Cost £90 to get through the MOT with the stop smoke. The body work was actually pretty good. Second car - Another fiesta this time a MK4 for £350, it was cheap I had just past my test. I knew it had welding done for the last MOT so I thought it would be ok, sadly the rust was spreading quicker than swine flu did last year. I kept it for two months and sold it on as an MOT failure. I did get it MOT'ed and the MOT just confirmed it was even worse than I imagined!. Third car - Corsa 9.5 years old, actually got this checked out by a mechanic who found it to be decent, it had no rust or anything it had 3 owners, 12 months MOT etc. Seemed a good buy but the head gasket went a year later and I lost a fortune on the car as I had to get over things done like shocks, springs, pads, exhaust, MAF, tyres etc. I think also because I of my virgin licence I was a bit over the top with the maintanance as I wanted to make sure everything was more than road legal. If I had it now I wouldn't bother so much as I've had my licence over three years. Dads car - I owned this for a while this year while waiting for my Panda, the day after we bought it three years ago it overheated. Luckily it turned out to be a stuck thermostat and has been fine since. Rust is getting the better of it now but my dads put 30,000 miles on it, not bad for an £850 car. It should hopefully last at least till the MOT in August next year, if the not the year after. Current car - Bought brand new, no problems so far! |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 22:05
New vs Used - Stuu
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| Anyone can buy a dog of a car, thats easy. Prob best ya stick to new cars :-) |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 22:14
New vs Used - RattleandSmoke
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My problem is I let my heart rule my head :). When I bought my Corsa I was a little bit concerned that there was no evidence of an oil change the past 20k but he told me it was done last year. The guy seemed genuine and told me where he worked etc. I think the best thing I can do is buy new but keep the cars for a long time, the exact opposite to what you do really :p. |
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New Mon 29 Nov 10 22:19
New vs Used - Stuu
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| Well, you say that, but my wife is doing what you are. She panicked tonight because a headlight bulb went. I stuck my head under the bonnet, gave the bulb a crack with my torch and it came back on. I will replace it tomorrow when shes home from work, but on her own, it was a monumental panic. |
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