Motoring Discussion > Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not.
Thread Author: legacylad Replies: 55

 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - legacylad
Collecting the A3 1.6 Tdi next week for gf's daughter and thought I would check its future service schedule. I have bought it directly from the leasing company prior to it being sent to auction, which is what normally happens. Fairly high miles, 90k, on a 59 plate, but four service stamps at a main Audi agent, and new discs & pads earlier this year.
Having spoken to two Audi main dealers, their service dept's informed me that a belt, preferably with tensioner and water pump change, was overdue and should be done at 75k.
The 'technical services' manager of the lease company disagrees. Having spoken with him directly, he assures me that according to the Audi service manual, from which they base all their maintenance on leased Audis, quotes 140k miles with no time limit. Furthermore, he told me that subject to it being serviced at a main dealer and according to the correct schedule, should it fail before 140k miles, Audi would be liable!
In the grand scheme of things it's probably a cop out to get a change done rather than test his theory in the real world. If so, do we think I should get my belt changed at a main dealer or use the services of my excellent local mechanic who looks after my 330?
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Skip
I would get it changed a.s.a.p including the tensioner and water pump. I think that VAG UK has changed their recommended intervals to something like 4 years or 48.000 miles due to the number of failures. The VAG forums would probably be your best bet for more advice.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Fursty Ferret
Ask him to put in writing that his company will cover the full costs associated with a cambelt failure if it happens before 140k.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Duncan
>> Ask him to put in writing that his company will cover the full costs associated
>> with a cambelt failure if it happens before 140k.


He will say 'no, I have already given you my response'
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - legacylad
His company did not build the car. Nor did his company make the service schedule which stated that belt changes were not due until 140k miles.
I have looked on Audi/VW Forums and it seems a very grey area. A different type of belt was introduced in 2009 and intervals seem to change country to country.

 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Runfer D'Hills
I think, if it was me, I'd get it done. You won't necessarily recoup the cost when you come to sell but it won't hurt the resale value either. The alternative of potential expensive engine damage and the inevitable loss of use of the vehicle in the event of belt failure would be at least inconvenient.

Bummer though.

Guess it depends on your attitude to risk in the end. It probably won't fail in the short time you need it.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Boxsterboy
It's not unusual for leasing companies to scrimp on servicing, and this would appear to be a classic example. I would get it done. It would seem that the leasing company manager is trying to justify (with difficulty) why he told the garage not to do it.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Runfer D'Hills
I hate cambelts.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Clk Sec
>> I hate cambelts.

I wouldn't even think of buying a car with a cambelt. My modest limousine is 12 years old and would have cost a fortune in cambelts, and associated parts, by now.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Skip
A lot of people on the forums are saying that they have been told that it should be changed every 4 years, but that there in no mileage interval which is unusual !
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Cliff Pope
>> but that there in no mileage interval which
>> is unusual !
>>

It isn't actually mileage that wears them out, it's the number of starts. The most strain on the belt occurs when accelerating it from rest.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Manatee
Well you wouldn't be surprised would you if VAG have an arrangement with the big fleets that they will cover any belt failures up to a higher mileage for the duration of the contracts, subject to dealer servicing? It's like extended service intervals, not necessarily good for the car but good for business.

Fat chance you or I would have of getting them to stand behind that, especially if the service book says something different.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Simon
I'd get the belt and tensioners changed on a VAG product at that mileage, but I wouldn't necessarily change the water pump. I fully understand the theory behind changing the water pump but I reckon that in most cases it is not necessary. Water pumps tend to leak a long while before they are ever likely to seize up in my experience and water pumps just don't fail at such mileages like they used to decades ago.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Manatee
Not relevant to an Audi perhaps, but we did have a water pump seize on a 45,000 mile Sierra that stripped the teeth off the belt with some consequent valve bending.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - mikeyb
Cambelt and tensioner change is included in the over 3 yrs old fixed price servicing deal @ £439

When I had the belt done on the sharan local indy was only a few quid cheaper than the main dealer, so I went the dealer route. They also did the water pump for an extra £25.

Has your indy given a price?
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Fenlander
As I've found out trying to help a cousin on their 2009 1.6Tdi Skoda the timing belt change intervals and advice is all over the place on different models around this year.

In my book the lease co have done nothing wrong, also two Audi dealers have advised it is overdue so no claim on Audi if it failed due to leaving. It's just something you have to factor into the price you pay for the car.

I'd just get the prices from dealer/indy and decide... it's not a complex belt system so any indy you trust should be OK with the job.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Sun 20 Apr 14 at 10:52
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Runfer D'Hills
To ask the ( not especially helpful ) kind of obvious question, did you not think to check this before agreeing to buy it?

However, I know there was some pressure on you to find a car and I guess it maybe got forgotten in the rush?
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Skip
>> I'd get the belt and tensioners changed on a VAG product at that mileage, but
>> I wouldn't necessarily change the water pump. I fully understand the theory behind changing the
>> water pump but I reckon that in most cases it is not necessary. Water pumps
>> tend to leak a long while before they are ever likely to seize up in
>> my experience and water pumps just don't fail at such mileages like they used to
>> decades ago.
>>

I don't agree, although water pumps, like most components on a modern car are much longer lived than they used to be, many a cam belt driven water pump has failed shortly after having a new belt fitted despite showing no signs of noisy bearings or leaks etc. Presumably the increased tension of the new belt is too much for the "old" bearings.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Clk Sec
It seems a good idea to me to avoid cars fitted with cam belts. I won't be buying one.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - NortonES2
I should avoid the chain driven ones too. VAG have a chequered history on those. There are alternatives: gear drive or even the old standby, pushrods. NSU (name owned by Audi) used reciprocating connecting rods. Or a two-stroke: no poppet valves to worry about:)
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Dog
Nothing wrong with cambelts IMO - as long as they are replaced according to the manufacturers recommendation, and ideally by a main dealer.

 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Skip
>> Nothing wrong with cambelts IMO - as long as they are replaced according to the
>> manufacturers recommendation, and ideally by a main dealer.

Agree totally and timing chains are far from fail proof especially with extended service intervals leaving the oil so long between changes.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Dog
>>Agree totally and timing chains are far from fail proof especially with extended service intervals leaving the oil so long between changes

Indeed, I used to be more concerned about the chain on my 1.8 Almera which had common problem related to a RENAULT timing chain.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Runfer D'Hills
As you wish, but out of 40 odd cars I've had three cam belts let go despite scheduled main dealer servicing and no problems with timing chains at all.

As per usual of course others must do and see things as they will. Just my experience and personal opinion.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Dog
You've got me worried now.

(*_*)
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Runfer D'Hills
Don't worry, it'll probably never happen.

;-)

The other reason I dislike them is that I've long been a high mileage driver and having the faff and expense of relatively regular belt changes doesn't appeal.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Bill Payer
>> Well you wouldn't be surprised would you if VAG have an arrangement with the big
>> fleets that they will cover any belt failures up to a higher mileage for the
>> duration of the contracts, subject to dealer servicing? It's like extended service intervals, not necessarily
>> good for the car but good for business.

I think that's highly likely, especially for bigger fleets / leasing companies.
>>
>> Fat chance you or I would have of getting them to stand behind that, especially
>> if the service book says something different.
>>
I know in our 2011 Golf, the service book says check the belt at something like 120K miles. VW UK say change at 4yrs althought they've recently revised that and post 2009 cars are 5yrs. More frequent change required at high mileage, but the dealer was vague about what high mileage means.

Personally I think it's a massive scam by VW UK, but bearing in mind the potential damage you'd have to be brave to ignore the "advice".
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - ....
When did servicing specification move from engineering specified to marketing hear say ?
Surely the people in Wolfsburg who designed, spec'd and built the car have the final say on what goes into the driver information pack?
I'd stick to whatever the book says unless there is some national campaign which says otherwise.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - swiss tony
>> When did servicing specification move from engineering specified to marketing hear say ?

Quite a while ago.
Take Merc servicing, it is designed to be cheap for the 1st 3 years, then the mandatory 'extras' hit in...
normally just in time for the lease company to have shifted it on...
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Bill Payer
>> >> When did servicing specification move from engineering specified to marketing hear say ?
>>
>> Quite a while ago.
>> Take Merc servicing, it is designed to be cheap for the 1st 3 years, then
>> the mandatory 'extras' hit in...
>> normally just in time for the lease company to have shifted it on...
>>

VW are just the same for that too. Was told our Golf needed a "major" service taking 3hrs at 2yrs old - until they asked how I'd be paying and I said it's on a VW Service Plan. Was in and out in an hour, and that included valeting the car.

Really unhappy with every aspect of dealing with VW - it felt like a scam that breakdown cover isn't included for 3yrs and getting servicing done has been an object lesson in obfuscation. They even tried to say the brake fluid change at 3yrs isn't included as it's not a scheduled item - if "change at 3yrs and then every 2" isn't a schedule, then I don't know what is.

One good thing about Merc is that if you buy their ServiceCare package, it covers everything needed, even the expensive auto-transmission fluid change. VW (and I assume all VAG) only cover the basic service content - everything else you have to pay for.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Fenlander
One of our few triumphs at the service counter...

Booked Mrs F's C3 into Citroen when it had done about 30k and was still under their used car warranty... for the common fault on that engine of a chuffing from a random blown injector seal. When handing over the keys the receptionist said we'll do all four while we're at it... thanks I said while thinking that's an unusual waste of expenditure for a warranty job.

On collecting the car a smiley receptionist handed me a bill for around £600 showing the four replacements at about £150 each.

Her face was a picture when I said remember this was a warranty job... causing a swift red faced removal of the bill from in front of me.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 21 Apr 14 at 16:14
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Victorbox
Let's hope it's easier than an Audi A4 cambelt change which seems to involve dismantling the whole of the front the vehicle! www.audiworld.com/tech/pics/eng35-wp1.jpg
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - legacylad
Thank you for your opinions.
I did indeed factor in the price of a belt change, at my local main dealer, prior to purchase. I even managed to confirm the service history of the vehicle with the service manager at the main dealer on the south coast. This corresponded exactly to what the lease company told me, and on the strength of several photos, and being busy at work and unable to view it in person, I paid for it without seeing the vehicle.
Just have to finalise the insurance now as the two named additional drivers, being ex pats for a few years, have no NCD. Nor do I on a second car. Methinks this could be a sneaky way of getting the two seater I want...sell the 330, run the slow as a slow thing A3 through summer, then buy the desired ragtop come autumn. A cunning plan. Man maths par excellence.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - BobbyG
When I had my Seat, the "in the know recommendation" was 4 years or 80k miles.

I got belt and water pump changed, including fitting some sort of improved plastic impellor thingy for £349. I seem to remember at the time VW garages were doing timing belts for a fixed price and it wasn't far off this indie price.

Is it not the case though that if you have a good indie they can have a look at the belt and although won't give you any guarantees, could let you know if its looking "OK" or if it looks as if it already is showing signs of wear?
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Fenlander
>>>Is it not the case though that if you have a good indie they can have a look at the belt and although won't give you any guarantees, could let you know if its looking "OK" or if it looks as if it already is showing signs of wear?


Sadly no... often belts that fail look OK on the back but the break starts inside at the root of a tooth. Early signs of this can only be seen by taking the belt off and turning it inside out so the teeth are on the outside when splits can be seen.

Obviously a nicked belt or one a stone has gone through, as well as a badly oil contaminated one, can be seen visually.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - BobbyG
Yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to say - an indie could tell you if it definitely needed replaced ie visual evidence of this.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - carmalade
Broken timing belts on modern cars are usually the result not the cause.Worn water pumps,idler and tensioner pulleys often fail first and then take the belt with it,or in the case of many Vag models ,a leaking diesel fuel filter housing causes the belt to disintegrate through comtamination.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Auntie Lockbrakes
Yep :-(

Let mine go to 9 years/60,000 miles and just paid over a thousand pounds (including cam seals). About 12 hours labour all-in...
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Avant
"Really unhappy with every aspect of dealing with VW - it felt like a scam that breakdown cover isn't included for 3yrs and getting servicing done has been an object lesson in obfuscation."

I can never understand this - Skoda, SEAT and (I think) Audi all give 3 years' free breakdown cover, whereas VW give only 1 year. What on earth is the logic?

I had two Golf estates - very good cars but with both there were muddles over the service intervals. With the Octavias there's never been a problem - free servicing every 10,000 miles (OK- 'free' means included in the deal with the car purchase, but all three of them have been good deals).
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Bill Payer
>> I had two Golf estates - very good cars but with both there were muddles
>> over the service intervals.
>>
I've always used franchised dealers for all the cars in our family but I'm determined that the VW will be getting serviced somewhere else.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Rudedog
I've always been a VW fan and can take the rough with the smooth, guess I've been very lucky to have two very good dealers close-by so haven't had any real issues, the only scam I would put VW's way is the way that their service & warrantees differ so much between countries/continents for the same car.
USA and Asia tend to have much better warrantees on DSG's and cambelts.

For my Golf it's been 4 year max or 60K miles, the schedules do change constantly with model/year changes which makes it very confusing even for the VW fan let alone anyone else.

I've mentioned it before but don't forget you can also have your car serviced at a VW Commercial Vehicles dealership, they have all the right bits and charge quite a bit less per hour.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Auntie Lockbrakes
Service intervals can justifiably change by country, if particular climates are taken in to account. In Dubai, Subaru used to specify oil changes every 3000 miles on the Forester (back in 2009).

But no real excuse for new car warranty lengths varying by country IMO.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - legacylad
Finally handed over the A3 today. Collected my BM after a major service, and, as usual, a joy to drive. 10yo (just) but no problems with the MOT. New rear discs, new front pads, usual major service replacements and sweet as a nut. Compared to that horrible A3 diesel thing.
Might still have to do a belt change 'just in case'.
A good pro mechanic friend told me of two recent chain failures on X5's. Less than 5 years old, out of warranty, and £6k to repair.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - legacylad
I had the belt, tensioner & water pump changed on the 92k mile A3 last week. £300 in total.
Just out of curiosity, I rang my two nearest Audi main dealers to see how much they charged, and how much I had saved. Amazingly, after quoting the reg number, the first dealer told me that it was not due yet! 5 years or 140k miles Sir, whichever comes first. If there was any problem before then with the belt, and as it had a full Audi main dealer history, it would be sorted free of charge. Dealer 2, again an authorised main Audi dealer, told me that it was overdue and should have been changed after 75k miles. So there you have it. Two main dealers, forty miles apart, with totally conflicting advice.
Shuffles off, muttering......
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Runfer D'Hills
With that sort of power output you could probably have got away with slipping on an old Hoover belt couldn't you?

;-)
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - legacylad
Quite.
Trouble is when you come to sell privately peeps like to see a belt change on the service history if there are a few miles on the clock.
As an aside Runfer, a recently retired pal of mine has just chopped in his 335 for a proper 4.0 V8 M3. A few years old but loves it to bits. And he knows how to drive it proper like as he is an ex armed response copper. Need to wrangle a drive in it ASAP!
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Runfer D'Hills
4.0 V8 ?

Something has to be done about these public sector pensions y'know....

;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sun 25 May 14 at 20:35
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - legacylad
Final update.
Gf's daughter and newborn now returned to their overseas home, so A3 back in my hands. My ex BMW technician friend, who now works for a respected indie, did the belt & water pump change. I also gave him carte blanche to check it over & do whatever necessary, so a major service was carried out. Must admit I am warming to it, very different to the 330 ragtop. Frugal, relaxing, practical, well screwed together. Think I will advertise it tomorrow before I become too attached!
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Runfer D'Hills
Could be a touch of that old paradox of it being at least as much if not more fun to wring the very best out of an 'ordinary' car as it is to have to drive a more sorted one well below its ultimate capabilities in order to preserve life, limb, wallet and licence.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - legacylad
My first car, a Mini Clubman estate, was one such car.
Generally I would agree with you, but better to be able to overtake quickly and safely with room to spare than doing so with less of a safety margin. The less time I spend on the 'wrong' side of the road the better.
Which takes us back to the AMG 63...
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - mikeyb
Quite often find that with the small city stype cars - the entry level model is often the most fun, although that could be due to them usually being the hire car you get in Spain, so the sun is shining and all is well in the world!
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Runfer D'Hills
Well funnily enough, I don't mind bashing around the country lanes around here in my wife's 1.6 petrol Qashqai.

Not because it's fast, it isn't, and not because it handles all that well, it doesn't, but because of both of the above you have to 'drive' it if you see what I mean?

My car just swallows stuff like that without trying which can, oddly enough, be a bit boring. Nice when you want to press on though, granted.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - legacylad
Bit like the A3 I have just posted on the 'Classifieds' then. Although in fairness it handles ok. For a small engined smelly diesel on skinny 205/55 tyres.
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Runfer D'Hills
Sounds a bit like a girl I woke up with one Sunday morning a couple of lifetimes ago who had actually been great fun but was too ugly to show to my mates.

;-))
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - legacylad
Been there.
Poor girl went off with a friend of mine at the first party I took her to. They were very happy together, so everything worked out for the best. Not a particular moment in my life I was proud of. Quite the opposite, but all concerned were happy with the outcome.

ps
Wanna buy a frugal small diesel?
 Audi A3 Sportback - Money making cambelt change. Or not. - Cliff Pope
>> With that sort of power output you could probably have got away with slipping on
>> an old Hoover belt couldn't you?


The engine power isn't delivered through the timing belt. The belt has to open and close the valves, plus sometimes turn some ancillaries.

Unlike the DAF 44, which did indeed drive the wheels through something hardly more substantial than a hoover belt.
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