>> Grieve is simply a spoiler. He has no ideas himself he simply wants to spoil
>> others without replacing them.
I'd be interested in some expansion on that. He seems to me to be a cerebral 'one nation' Tory with an honestly held view (cf Ken Clarke) that we should stay in EU. He's acted on the latter commitment notwithstanding outrage in his local party. Where is the self interest?
>> Lammy's class based chip on the shoulder, paranoia with the nasty rich people, blind support
>> in the poor down trodden poor people, constant reference to class etc. etc. are tedious,
>> irritating and grand standing.
Labour's roots are as a class based party. If you said the relevance of that faded for a while I might struggle to disagree but right now references to those rich people who are nasty and exploitative seem to me to be on the button.
Report in Guardian today is of 4.5 million in deep poverty:
www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/29/uk-deep-poverty-study-austerity
You may not like Labour politics but I'm not seeing any self interest in Lammy's stance either
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