Non-motoring > Referendum Discussion - Vol 36   [Read only]
Thread Author: VxFan Replies: 119

 A Leaver with a plan - Manatee
>> The Leave camp ... is now intellectually exhausted.

As evidenced by what? What exactly is it that you expect? For them to humour you with all their best ideas for bargaining with the EU?

>>faced with hard reality.

Meaningless phrase. We are all faced with reality. It would be just as valid for me to suggest that a large number of advocates for remaining are stuck in denial.

>>They wanted change, so the onus is on them to plan for change.

The responsibility for governing the country is exactly where it was before, with the same machinery of the state that called a referendum. Some of the people have changed in consequence of the result. Your frame of reference is a model of the world that enables you to blame "somebody" for something you don't like.

>> Strange days, when the leaders of the Leave campaign go awol.

You need to be more specific - who, how, and what should they be doing that they aren't?

>> Their fan boys

Should I call you a Remain fan boy? No, that would just be silly.

Without personalising this, much of the venom from those who cannot accept the opposite point of view seems not to be accompanied by substance.

Simple intolerance of those with a different opinion is the literal definition of bigotry, the crime that bilious Remainers love to accuse Leavers of.

>> relying on emotion and "belief" when what is required is a plan.

I have answered this logical fallacy previously - engagement came there none, and the same people are still banging the same drum.

As you must know, a 'plan' is not the starting point for dealing with any problem or the position delivered to us by the referendum result.

What has commonly been characterised as the status quo / no-change position in the EU was potentially just as volatile and held considerable risks and challenges. Many of the risk factors are the same as they were before.

Dealing with shifting political, social, economic and regulatory sands is a process, not an event; a constant and overlapping many-stranded cycle of identifying the issues, understanding the factors at play, defining and developing aims and criteria for success, distilling those into tangible objectives, finding options for achieving those targets, constantly evaluating, developing and selectively following up those options, creating and iterating many plans, managing the responsibilities and actions - again and again. All of that must happen in or out of the EU. The 'plan' the process, goes on - the only constant is change.

>>Micawberish principles are
>> not good enough.

Another possibly fallacious premise presented as fact. Excessive optimism is not required in order to think that Brexit does not equal economic disaster.

You don't have to look very hard to see that many commentators, and the IMF, considered sterling to be significantly overvalued in 2014 and 2015 before the referendum result 'caused' a devaluation.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/12065157/Pound-is-most-overvalued-currency-in-the-world-analysts-claim.html

www.foremostcurrencygroup.co.uk/sterling-overvalued-10-15-vince-cable/

next.ft.com/content/ec6bef86-1653-11e4-8210-00144feabdc0

If there is optimism in the Brexit lobby that is unwarranted, it is at least matched by the pessimism of the career doom-mongers of the fourth estate, fed enthusiastically by those who have not yet assimilated the result of the referendum.

It is not unreasonable to think that this is part of the problem The PMI index released this week is a measure of sentiment, and must reflect this barrage of negativity.

The appropriate mindset here is to find the opportunities. Smart people are already doing that. Arguments about which side lied the most are redundant.

Circumspection is of course sensible for those "awol" leave campaigners who are now Foreign Secretary, Minister for Exiting the EU, and Secretary of State for International Trade for example. They would be very foolish indeed to reveal their strategy to you or anybody else not bound to secrecy.

There is no denying that they have some hard work ahead. The newly beatified Theresa May will be doing some fancy footwork to maximise her chances of taking credit for their successes and avoiding blame for their failures.

France and Germany are both determined that UK will not "profit" from Brexit, but that sort of statement belies the assumption that there is no leverage.

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 can Britain make a success of Brexi.. new Ian (Cape Town) 20 Jul 16 20:02
 can Britain make a success of Brexit new sooty123 20 Jul 16 20:00
 can Britain make a success of Brexi.. new Crankcase 20 Jul 16 20:05
 can Britain make a success of Brex.. new sooty123 20 Jul 16 20:07
 can Britain make a success of Bre.. new Ian (Cape Town) 20 Jul 16 20:08
 can Britain make a success of Brexi.. new fluffy 20 Jul 16 20:07
 can Britain make a success of Brex.. new legacylad 20 Jul 16 20:29
 can Britain make a success of Brex.. new Stuartli 21 Jul 16 00:06
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 Post Brexit Labour new sooty123 21 Jul 16 11:52
 Post Brexit Labour new Stuartli 21 Jul 16 12:02
 Post Brexit Labour new WillDeBeest 21 Jul 16 12:03
 Post Brexit Labour new tyrednemotional 21 Jul 16 12:39
 Post Brexit Labour new devonite 21 Jul 16 12:42
 Post Brexit Labour new sherlock47 21 Jul 16 15:39
 A Leaver with a plan new WillDeBeest 21 Jul 16 15:03
 A Leaver with a plan new Pat 21 Jul 16 15:38
 A Leaver with a plan new WillDeBeest 21 Jul 16 15:48
 A Leaver with a plan new Pat 21 Jul 16 15:56
 A Leaver with a plan new Robin O'Reliant 21 Jul 16 16:51
 A Leaver with a plan new Mapmaker 21 Jul 16 16:58
 A Leaver with a plan new Pat 21 Jul 16 17:30
 A Leaver with a plan new Stuartli 21 Jul 16 17:45
 A Leaver with a plan new Crankcase 21 Jul 16 18:14
 A Leaver with a plan new Pat 21 Jul 16 18:22
 A Leaver with a plan new WillDeBeest 21 Jul 16 18:56
 A Leaver with a plan new Crankcase 21 Jul 16 19:07
 A Leaver with a plan new WillDeBeest 21 Jul 16 19:19
 A Leaver with a plan new Crankcase 21 Jul 16 19:43
 A Leaver with a plan new Old Navy 21 Jul 16 19:13
 A Leaver with a plan new Dulwich Estate II 21 Jul 16 19:17
 A Leaver with a plan new WillDeBeest 21 Jul 16 19:34
 A Leaver with a plan new NortonES2 21 Jul 16 19:42
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 A Leaver with a plan new rtj70 21 Jul 16 22:44
  
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 A Leaver with a plan new Stuartli 22 Jul 16 00:42
 A Leaver with a plan new rtj70 22 Jul 16 01:42
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 A Leaver with a plan new WillDeBeest 22 Jul 16 07:22
 A Leaver with a plan new Pat 22 Jul 16 07:31
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 A Leaver with a plan new NortonES2 22 Jul 16 19:03
 A Leaver with a plan new Manatee 23 Jul 16 14:48
 A Leaver with a plan new NortonES2 23 Jul 16 20:42
 A Leaver with a plan new Manatee 23 Jul 16 21:38
 A Leaver with a plan new VxFan 22 Jul 16 16:14
 A Leaver with a plan new Dutchie 22 Jul 16 08:29
 A Leaver with a plan new commerdriver 22 Jul 16 10:47
 A Leaver with a plan new Stuartli 22 Jul 16 12:34
 A Leaver with a plan new Ambo 22 Jul 16 10:05
 A Leaver with a plan new WillDeBeest 22 Jul 16 10:16
 A Leaver with a plan new rtj70 22 Jul 16 11:44
 A Leaver with a plan new zippy 22 Jul 16 12:23
 A Leaver with a plan new Stuartli 22 Jul 16 12:15
 A Leaver with a plan new commerdriver 22 Jul 16 12:19
 A Leaver with a plan new Stuartli 22 Jul 16 12:25
 A Leaver with a plan new movilogo 22 Jul 16 12:29
 A Leaver with a plan new zippy 22 Jul 16 12:42
 A Leaver with a plan new smokie 22 Jul 16 12:48
 A Leaver with a plan new movilogo 22 Jul 16 14:18
 A Leaver with a plan new smokie 22 Jul 16 15:37
 A Leaver with a plan new Cliff Pope 22 Jul 16 10:19
  
 A Leaver with a plan new Cliff Pope 21 Jul 16 20:39
 A Leaver with a plan new tyrednemotional 21 Jul 16 21:01
 A Leaver with a plan new Old Navy 22 Jul 16 08:52
 A Leaver with a plan new Duncan 22 Jul 16 09:20
 A Leaver with a plan new Dutchie 22 Jul 16 17:00
 A Leaver with a plan new NortonES2 22 Jul 16 18:46
 A Leaver with a plan new Dog 22 Jul 16 19:12
 A Leaver with a plan new NortonES2 22 Jul 16 21:38
 A Leaver with a plan new Duncan 22 Jul 16 19:00
 A Leaver with a plan new Armel Coussine 22 Jul 16 18:48
 A Leaver with a plan new Old Navy 22 Jul 16 19:05
 A Leaver with a plan new Armel Coussine 22 Jul 16 19:30
 A Leaver with a plan new Old Navy 22 Jul 16 19:45
 A Leaver with a plan new Old Navy 22 Jul 16 19:55
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