Motoring Discussion > Why not many driver-in-middle layout? Miscellaneous
Thread Author: movilogo Replies: 23
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 13:46 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - movilogo
Other than legendary McLaren F1 and Ferrari 365P Berlinetta, I don't know if any other car used that layout.

Why there are not many cars like this? There is no problem of LHD/RHD conversion and good weight distribution as most cars have only driving within them most of the time.

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New Fri 6 Apr 12 13:54 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - corax
Those two supercars are wide, really wide. It wouldn't be possible to put a passenger either side of the driver in a conventional road car unless it's something big like the Fiat Multipla. You could put two passengers in the back seats in the conventional way and leave the driver up front on his own, but the packaging would be unacceptable for a normal road car.
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 14:05 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - corax
If you were to have passengers in the car, can you imagine how difficult it would be to get into the drivers seat in the middle? The car would have to be compromised in some way - a luxury that supercars have.

I suppose you could go in through a sunroof via an electric hoist, this could double as a Bond type escape hatch in the event of danger.
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 14:58 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - L'escargot
Where would you put the gearlever, handbrake, seatbelt anchorages, glovebox, rear view mirror, etc etc?
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 15:03 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - swiss tony
>> Where would you put the gearlever, handbrake, seatbelt anchorages, glovebox, rear view mirror, etc etc?
>>
Dash, dash (electric), built into the seat, both sides of the dash, rear camera - screen in dash or headup display? etc etc !
Last edited by: swiss tony on Fri 6 Apr 12 at 15:04
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 17:10 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - Harleyman
I'm sure we've discussed this before somewhere, and the result was that certin dustcarts and Alvis Stalwarts (line for AC's poem there!) are the only road vehicles with this set-up to be made in any quantity; for obvious reasons I exclude agricultural tractors from this.

There was another commercial though, slightly more exotic....

tinyurl.com/buntmta

Some of these had the same V-6 GMC petrol engine as is used in my half-ton pick-up!
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 17:49 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - Zero
>> Where would you put the gearlever,

Flappy paddles behind the steering wheel

handbrake

Right foot

, seatbelt anchorages,

Seat


glovebox

Where it goes now but on both sides.

, rear view mirror,


In the middle.


etc etc?

Its not a problem.

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New Fri 6 Apr 12 18:01 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - swiss tony
Nearly 3 hours behind me Zero...
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 18:04 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - Zero
I did it just to make you feel good, you don't often get the chance...
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 18:12 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - four wheels good...
-
Last edited by: four wheels good... on Fri 6 Apr 12 at 18:15
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 18:45 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - movilogo
>> t wouldn't be possible to put a passenger either side of the driver

The 2 passengers need not be on the either side of the driver. They can be positioned behind the driver. Thus it will not make the car any wider. Also, this can make the front of the car somewhat narrower to make it more aerodynamic.
Last edited by: movilogo on Fri 6 Apr 12 at 18:46
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 19:09 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - swiss tony
>> I did it just to make you feel good, you don't often get the chance...
>>
AW! Thank you so much!

And there was me thinking you were beginning to lose the plot! ;-)
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 19:43 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - nyx2k
i would have thought it would be fairly easy to make a car with fully drive by wire controls for brakes and terring etc and then all cars could be made the same and the pedal and steering consoles could be moved from side to side easily
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 20:01 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - Harleyman
>> i would have thought it would be fairly easy to make a car with fully
>> drive by wire controls for brakes and terring etc and then all cars could be
>> made the same and the pedal and steering consoles could be moved from side to
>> side easily
>>

It's not beyond the bounds of technology. The bigest hurdles would be making it comply with NCAP and other legislation, and of course it would have to be financially viable too.

ISTR that the C&U regulations might have to be modified too; isn't there some bit of jargon that insists that there's a fail-safe manual steering method in case the power fails, amongst other things?
Last edited by: Harleyman on Fri 6 Apr 12 at 20:02
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 20:21 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - -
>> It's not beyond the bounds of technology. The bigest hurdles would be making it comply
>> with NCAP and other legislation, and of course it would have to be financially viable
>> too.

The biggest hurdle would be to convince anyone with an ounce of common sense to buy one, a misfire is annoying, an engine cutting out is very annoying and possibly dangerous, losing steering control is a killer.

Would anyone here buy a car where the steering was electrical connection only, if so let me know where and when you're going will you...;)
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 21:56 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - Harleyman

>> Would anyone here buy a car where the steering was electrical connection only, if so
>> let me know where and when you're going will you...;)
>>

Plenty are happy to fly in planes thus equipped. ;-)
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 22:41 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - movilogo
But aircrafts have multiple backups! If drive-by-wire has same level of electronics then I don't see any problem. Although the barrier is psychological rather than mechanical/electrical.
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 22:44 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - Zero
>> But aircrafts have multiple backups! If drive-by-wire has same level of electronics then I don't
>> see any problem. Although the barrier is psychological rather than mechanical/electrical.

A system so good that frozen pitot heads and confused pilots with no feedback drove the Air France airbus into the sea.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 6 Apr 12 at 22:46
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 22:45 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - Harleyman
>> But aircrafts have multiple backups! If drive-by-wire has same level of electronics then I don't
>> see any problem.
>>
>>

Exactly; hence the comment about prohibitive cost.
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New Fri 6 Apr 12 20:03 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - bathtub tom
Hunslet (holdings) of Leeds (they made railway engines) solved the problems back in the '60s: www.microcarmuseum.com/tour/scootacar2.html

As a previous owner, I wouldn't recommend one.
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New Sat 7 Apr 12 17:05 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - four wheels good...
Feeding some car park machines and toll booths could prove to be a little awkward....
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New Sat 7 Apr 12 17:27 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - swiss tony
>> Feeding some car park machines and toll booths could prove to be a little awkward....
>>

And there lies the answer to the opening post....
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New Sat 7 Apr 12 18:20 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - Cliff Pope
But no more awkward than driving a LHD car here, or a RHD car abroad.

All the problems raised were capable of being overcome decades ago. I've had cars with a bench seat for 3 people in the front, column gearlever, umbrella handbrake.

I suspect it's really just because it would now seem too unconventional, and without any obvious advantage to make it worth trying to convince the buying public.
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New Sat 7 Apr 12 21:14 
 Why not many driver-in-middle layout? - four wheels good...
>> But no more awkward than driving a LHD car here, or a RHD car abroad.


Mm..when driving (where-ever) with the steering wheel on the wrong side you expect some things to be difficult as all car park, toll booth kit etc is designed for the country standard. With the wheel in the middle it will never be correct.
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