My insurance is up for renewal soon. I have a clean license. and no convictions or accidents.
My renewal quote from my current insurer is a rise of 65%! I made a trunk call to them, and they revised the quote, but the increase on the premium was still a whopping 35%!
Naturally, I hit the comparison websites, and found a different insurer who is 34% cheaper than last year! So I got on the dog and switched. In cash terms, the difference between the two best quotes is a saving of £456!
I have no idea why there is such a discrepancy - and neither does my (soon to be former) insurer.
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I made a trunk call to them...
Is that a clue?
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A lot of apparently "incestuous" relationships in the insurance world
" I've found out that Tesco Compare is in bed with Royal Bank of Scotland Insurance (who own Churchill, Direct Line, Privilege), Confused is owned by Admiral Insurance, Go Compare is in bed with Esure Insurance (owned by Halifax), Compare the Market is owned by Budget Insurance... and so on."
This is a quote and not my conclusions or findings. Having a price comparison site owning insurers doesn't seem quite right, to me. Additionally, Confused have bought Money saving Expert although M Lewis will continue to be associated with it.
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Meldrew, I think you need to look for another source for your "facts".
>> Esure Insurance (owned by Halifax), ...>>
Not true, esure is owned by a management team led by Peter Woods.
>> Confused have bought Money saving Expert ... >>
Not true, MSE has been bought by MoneysavingSupermarket.
I have not bothered to check the rest of claims.
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I found it on another motoring forum - not the Dark side. Mods please delete my original post asap.
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>> Is that a clue?
>>
Yes. ;-)
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With the same insurer owning various brands, they often try to charge what they think the mug punter customer will pay.
I treat insurers as thieves - like banks.
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>> often try to charge what they think
>> the mug punter customer will pay.
>>
Isn't that the aim of any business out to make a profit?
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>> Isn't that the aim of any business out to make a profit?
.....and the fact is most insurers make no profit out of car insurance, hence premiums are going up. No business survives by making a loss year on year.
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>>I treat insurers as thieves - like banks.
Why? Have you ever caught an insurer deliberately trying to scew you?
Its just fashionable to say so. Everybody loves to hate an insurer / petrol tax/ main dealers / etc.
They are both businesses, and are there to make money.
Insurers own different brands to appeal to different demographics; try esure.com, firstalternative.com and sheilaswheels.com, it is nonetheless the same company.
And of course they try to charge what the customer will pay. What would you expect them to charge? They'd be pretty dumb if they didn't.
The truth is insurers do exactly what they say they will do, but they live with a market where there are 10 million self-professed experts not one of which has ever managed to combine reading a policy document with understanding it.
A market which loves "cheap" when taking out a policy, which buy and large will never pay for quality of service, since its far easier to buy crap and then bitch about it than it is to actually stump up a bit of extra money for quality service in the first place.
Service in th UK is rubbish, because [more or less] nobody will pay for good service.
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>> Service in th UK is rubbish, because [more or less] nobody will pay for good
>> service.
>>
That's just as 'fashionable' a remark as the one that you are pulling madf up for!
It is possible (and more common than believed) to get good service in the UK, but in my experience it is not related to how much the customer is paying.
As we are discussing this in a car forum, we need look no further that motor manufacturers to illustrate this. For example,
Skoda = VAG Group products = Reasonably priced = Generally very good.
Audi = Virtually identical VAG Group products = Overpriced = Generally not very good.
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This information is from a Blog written by insurance broker, Adrian Flux. Ii is 4 years old but I don't think the basics will have changed and I am not quoting it, just letting people read it if they want to.
www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2007/08/who-owns-your-insurer.html
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I'm expecting Adrian Flux to solder on no matter what anyone says about him.
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>> I'm expecting Adrian Flux to solder on no matter what anyone says about him.
>>
Groan:
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SAGA - who insure my wife - paid up promptly on her write off (her fault), did not increase premiums (protected NCD) and kept premium the same next year.
They are one of the few motor insurers whom I have had good experiences of.
Which business charges repeat customers more than new ones?
Answer: insurers.
A truly great business model..designed to ensure customer loyalty disloyalty.
And someone is trying to persuade me it's my fault to complain?
ROFL. :-)
Last edited by: madf on Mon 3 Sep 12 at 15:46
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>> Which business charges repeat customers more than new ones?
>> Answer: insurers.
>>
>> A truly great business model..designed to ensure customer loyalty disloyalty.
I have never understood this approach either. The only logical explanation is that a heck of a lot of people just pay up and renew with their existing insurer without surveying the market.
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>> >> Which business charges repeat customers more than new ones?
>> >> Answer: insurers.
>> >>
>> >> A truly great business model..designed to ensure customer loyalty disloyalty.
>>
>> I have never understood this approach either. The only logical explanation is that a heck
>> of a lot of people just pay up and renew with their existing insurer without
>> surveying the market.
>>
And thanks to Government laws passed in the last few years, neatly captures anyone who forgets to renew their insurance by automatically carrying it forward once it expires. . . .at the newly quoted high rate. (This nearly happened to me last year when my reminder documents went "missing")
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Not sure which Government laws you refer to, or even what the phrase means, but this might help...
www.confused.com/car-insurance/articles/car-insurance-auto-renewals-your-rights
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>> SAGA - who insure my wife - paid up promptly on her write off (her
>> fault), did not increase premiums (protected NCD) and kept premium the same next year.
>>
>> They are one of the few motor insurers whom I have had good experiences of.
>>
My next door neighbour is cracking on a bit, I think he must be like 55 or something :) and he used to use SAGA for his home insurance until he asked me one day how much I paid. Mine is £200 building and contents inc accidental damage. His renewal with SAGA was £800.
He's just moved his car insurance too - apparently a lot of insurers are dropping their upper age restrictions now, which presumeably must be hitting SAGA.
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I insure my Mimser Motor with Saga, the premium is fair and I get 90 day's EU cover free, of which I use about 7! I moved from another company whose premium was fair but when I wanted to go to France they wanted £3 a day (OK) and a £25 "Policy Amendment Fee" (outrageous)
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>>Which business charges repeat customers more than new ones?
Answer: insurers.
also telcommunication companies, cellular network operators, subscription television channel operators etc. etc. etc.
Pretty much any business where renewals are involved.
Why? Because this statement is wrong.
>>A truly great business model..designed to ensure customer loyalty disloyalty
No, a business model designed to achive the approriate profits.
The premium required to attract new business is less than the premium required to retain it.
Because the great British public don't have the willingness or initiative to shop around, understand what they are paying for, and select accordingly.
Consequently if the insurer/tv supplier/telephone company did drop the price unneccessaily for all renewals, their shareholders would have significant and justified complaints about the reduced profits. They always wouldn't be able to subsidise new policies. Its called business.
I've posted the full explanation a number of times.
>>And someone is trying to persuade me it's my fault to complain?
Not me, I was simply pointing out that you don't understand what you're complaining about.
Or did you think you did?
ROFL. :-)
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>> >>Which business charges repeat customers more than new ones?
>> Answer: insurers.
>>
>> also telcommunication companies, cellular network operators, subscription television channel operators etc. etc. etc.
>>
>> Pretty much any business where renewals are involved.
>>
>> Why? Because this statement is wrong.
>>
>> >>A truly great business model..designed to ensure customer loyalty disloyalty
>>
>> No, a business model designed to achive the approriate profits.
>>
>> The premium required to attract new business is less than the premium required to retain
>> it.
>>
>> Because the great British public don't have the willingness or initiative to shop around, understand
>> what they are paying for, and select accordingly.
>>
>> Consequently if the insurer/tv supplier/telephone company did drop the price unneccessaily for all renewals, their
>> shareholders would have significant and justified complaints about the reduced profits. They always wouldn't be
>> able to subsidise new policies. Its called business.
The main difference is that the others are open and tell you it's free for three months (or whatever) but you know the real rate all the time.
Insurance companies stuff you at renewal..
I know it's called business. So was PFI: and much good it did the banks : - profits and reputation shot to bits.
>>
Last edited by: madf on Mon 3 Sep 12 at 17:50
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>> This information is from a Blog written by insurance broker, Adrian Flux. Ii is 4
>> years old but I don't think the basics will have changed and I am not
>> quoting it, just letting people read it if they want to.
>>
>> www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2007/08/who-owns-your-insurer.html
>>
outdated and inaccurate.
HBOS Group owns .... wrong
IAG owns Hastings Direct, People’s Choice, Diamond, ... wrong
"Fortis owns RIAS ...
Kwik-Fit Insurance Services owns Express Insurance "
well all that should be under www.ageas.co.uk/
wholly or partially-owned companies (Ageas Insurance Limited, Ageas Insurance Solutions, Ageas Protect, Castle Cover, Express Insurance, Kwik Fit Insurance Services, RIAS, Tesco Underwriting and The Green Insurance Company. )
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>>That's just as 'fashionable' a remark as the one that you are pulling madf up for!
It may, or may not, be fashionable now. However, the first time I said it in print was over on the Dark Side in 2001 when it was not. And I have said it many times since.
So if it is truly now fashionable, then I must finally be getting through. Good to know.
>>Skoda = VAG Group products = Reasonably priced = Generally very good.
>> Audi = Virtually identical VAG Group products = Overpriced = Generally not very good.
I didn't say anything about products, I was talking about service.
And finally I said "Its just fashionable to say so". Where the main thrust would be introduced with the use of the word "just".
i.e. its not a problem that it is fashionable, but it is a criticism that it is just fashionable, rather than fashionable and true.
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>>
>> >>Skoda = VAG Group products = Reasonably priced = Generally very good.
>> >> Audi = Virtually identical VAG Group products = Overpriced = Generally not very good.
>>
>> I didn't say anything about products, I was talking about service.
>>
Agreed......*Friendly Smile*
Just to be 100% clear, I was talking about service as well. I chose Skoda & Audi precisely because the product was so similar, so as to differentiate between them on service grounds.
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I think the easy example is insurance brokers.
These used to exist on the high street, and there were many, many independents, and they used to offer a personal service.
So they would help you with your claim, to alterations without admin fees, give you the whole refund you;re entitled to, only charge you the additional premium that was requested. etc. etc.
However, running a business like this cost money.
Then they realised that the average punter would go down the road for a fiver and sod the service.
So they had to match the premium. which they could not do given the cost of their service. So they reduced the cost of the service.
Because the average customer would go down the road for the cheap premium, and then whine later when they were charged for every single thing they changed.
Now I see no reason why they should not go for the cheapest premium they can find. But then they need to understand what they are getting.
That's why Lloyds sold ADTPF&T rather than comprehensive, for example.
That's why banks closed high street branches
That's why local butchers declined
etc. etc.
because the UK is a market where the majority of people buy on price, and solely on price.
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>> I think the easy example is insurance brokers.
>>
>> These used to exist on the high street, and there were many, many independents, and
>> they used to offer a personal service.
>>
>> So they would help you with your claim, to alterations without admin fees, give you
>> the whole refund you;re entitled to, only charge you the additional premium that was requested.
>> etc. etc.
>>
>> However, running a business like this cost money.
>>
>> Then they realised that the average punter would go down the road for a fiver
>> and sod the service.
The internet age of easy comparative quotes killed that business. Maybe sooner like direct line and their telephone service.
Pity really, a good broker got me a good quote for my first ever car insurance.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 3 Sep 12 at 17:52
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Insurance Broking death became obvious around 1985, bit before any meaningful internet impact.
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that was the year Direct Line launched its telephone based insurance business.
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It was about that time they launched the loan business, but I don't think they started insurance until later.
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Nope, you're right, it was 1985. Surprising.
Mind you, i think the first desktop comparison software came out in 1983, and there was a telex service from about 1981. It wasn't very good though.
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>> I made a trunk call to them...
>>
>> Is that a clue?
>>
Admiral Group (who own Elephant) sent out ridiculous renewal premiums every year with my kids insurance, and every year ended up cheapest again after hitting various comparison sites.
Oddly, for both of them, when they reached 25 Admiral were suddenly way out even on comparison sites and wouldn't move when called. I was glad to be done with them, really.
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>> Oddly, for both of them, when they reached 25 Admiral were suddenly way out even
>> on comparison sites and wouldn't move when called. I was glad to be done with
>> them, really.
I had the same experience personally. I haven't had a remotely competitive quote from Admiral (including Multicar) since I was in my mid 20's.
Interestingly, their business cover division, Bell Direct, were very competitive on the Volvo and the Golf GTI.
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Londoner,
>>I have no idea why there is such a discrepancy - and neither does my (soon to be former) insurer
Did you check that nobody has made a dumb mistake?
Different understanding of any convictions and/or accidents
Different understanding of use of vehicle
Different understanding of amount of NCD
Hopefully its your soon to be ex insurer, but don't get caught out. Worth a double check, I'd say.
You can end up in some horrible situations where you end up either trying to cancel at short period rates or stumping up a nasty additional premium.
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Sounds very much like what happened to me, I'm on my wife's insurance which always seemed quite high for some unknown reason, at this years renewal my wife questioned the details they had, now I work in Theatres for the NHS but they had me down as working in the entertainment Theatre, as soon as the insurer was able to push the right combination of buttons her premium dropped by £186!
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Currently with LV for self & Mrs F. Have checked online and their premiums still look OK for us as long as nothing changes before Feb renewal. Used their online service last week to price up the various vehicles I was looking at.
Brand new Golf 1.6TDI would be £176, current C5 £185, Rover 75 1.8 was £194 and the Alfa I collect tomorrow would be £213... all comp policies with legal protection and business use for self and Mrs F.
So far so good but then I phoned to see if I could swap to the Alfa tomorrow and keep the C5 on cover an extra 30 days... done this in the past for a nominal sum.
They wanted £183 for 30 days!!!!
Obviously not doing that.
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Ah but I remember the old days of Commercial Union “never make a drama out of a crisis”.
I had car stereo nicked, walked into the insurance companies office filled in the claim form there and then and the girl behind the desk wrote me a cheque for the full amount there and then. That kind of service I would pay extra for…
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Another amazing insurance quote - WillDeBeest
