I noticed a news article today which mentioned further price drops in fuel, so I had a look at a fuel price comparison site, to see how the prices have been affected locally.
When choosing the type of fuel, I noticed that they had diesel and premium diesel.
Perhaps rather embarrassing for somebody who drives a diesel car, I have never noticed premium diesel at the pumps (although, according the same site, none of the stations that I normally use sell it).
Looking at the prices, it seems that it is about 11-12p per litre more expensive, so that would be around £8 more to fill up.
Is there any solid evidence that it would be worth the extra cost, or is it just the diesel equivalent of £50 HDMI cables?
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When I first got a diesel (Mondeo TDCi) I tried a premium Shell diesel. It was a few pence more per litre and I found I got slightly more MPG and I'm sure the car ran a little smoother. But I went back to supermarket diesel because it was cheaper and the extra MPG didn't make enough of a difference. Also did lots of miles back then so the Clubcard points got me a lot of Airmiles.
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You may or may not not notice a difference in feel and performance, depending on the car. For me made not a jot of difference on VW PDI lumps, was smoother on Renault Dci lumps. Small improvement on MPG with the Dci, none with the PDi, certainly nowhere near enough to justify the price difference.
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The Sharan PD appears to not care what you run in it, so same experience as Zero.
Never tried it in the Volvo.
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Local station used to serve Total Excellium and now has Shell version. No noticeable difference in Xantia or Berlingo. Just fill up when I'm at Sainsbury's or in an area where diesel is cheaper than at home.
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In France last year, where diesel is cheaper anyway, I felt the LEC seemed a little hesitant, and it was using more fuel than I'd expected. It was still very new to us, and I reasoned that its first owners might have treated it too gently. So I fed it on Excellium (BP and Shell being very rare sights in rural France) and gave it some gratuitous work to do.
I couldn't say whether it made a difference, and my style of use here is too radically different to make a valid comparison. I've not felt the need to repeat the experiment at UK prices - not that Shell stations anyway make it easy to tell what the price is.
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My VAG diesel was quieter on cold mornings on premium diesel, but fuel economy was identical. The BMW was the same except fuel economy dropped, and I see no point in trying it in the Vauxhall when it's already doing 65mpg.
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Is the radio fixed now, FF?
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>> Is the radio fixed now, FF?
>>
No. After stripping out the interior to trace the antenna cable they came to the conclusion that the fault was with the (easily accessible!) DAB unit which sits in the boot. Which is what I told them it would be, based on my half-baked diagnosis.
However, the part has to come in from Germany and is on back order, and for some obscure reason they weren't willing to give me a donor unit from another car. So still no radio.
They'll call when the part comes in and will require the car for another couple of days to fit it, taking the total time to 7 days(!) in the garage and three months overall. I can't strictly blame Vauxhall for this as they've had to fit it in around me and provide a courtesy car that isn't a three cylinder biscuit tin on castors.
Presumably the reason they're anally following the troubleshooting guide is so they can bill Vauxhall for the work at the end.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 24 Apr 13 at 00:53
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>> Presumably the reason they're anally following the troubleshooting guide is so they can bill Vauxhall for the work at the end.
>>
That's probably spot on.
In most cases if the 'troubleshooting guide' isn't followed, then warranty wont pay the dealer.
I dunno about Vauxhall, but many manufactures demand reams of printouts, hand written reports etc....
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>>I dunno about Vauxhall,
Yes, FF is right.
If you fix the fault quickly and first time, it doesn't matter much how you do it.
If, however, you need to get any help from Vauxhall's technical centre, the only way to get the help is to plod through every step in the electronic TIS.
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>> If you fix the fault quickly and first time, it doesn't matter much how you do it.
>>
With some makes it does....
IF the paperwork trail is incomplete, ie missing a step, lack of paperwork backing up the correct procedure was used, even a missing parts requisition, then warranty payment will be rejected.
And, the dealers are regularly audited..
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Warrany job cards have been among my very best works of fiction!
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>> Warrany job cards have been among my very best works of fiction!
>>
I bet!!
Just not so easy these days...
These days its clock on the job, get vehicle into workshop, attach to laptop.
interrogate ECU's print out results.
Follow the diagnoses flow chart (often using said laptop) print out results.
Action the repair.
interrogate ECU's print out results.
Clock off the job.
Write up the fault, diagnoses, what action was do to effect the repair.
Many jobcard packs now run to 20-30 sheets of paper.....
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I'm very wary of the term "premium". The pumps marked Premium at our local Total fuel station dispense bog-standard 95 octane petrol. Clearly, in some cases "Premium" is just a name not an indication of a superior fuel.
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I never use supermarket fuels. But my experience of Premium diesel is that it made barely any difference, and certainly not worth an extra £8 per tank.
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I dont know about diesel, but the super UL petrol certainly makes a difference, although it depends entirely on the car. On my Charade it gives about 3 mpg more but on the old Perodua auto it gave a full 6 mpg more and on the Matrix which is also auto it is reliably giving 7 mpg more, so I think it really comes down to how each engine/gearbox combinations uses fuel. On a car as thirsty as the Matrix ( was doing 27 mpg on normal UL ) it is well worth the extra, currently about 5p extra a litre.
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>> I dont know about diesel, but the super UL petrol certainly makes a difference, although
>> it depends entirely on the car. On my Charade it gives about 3 mpg more
>> but on the old Perodua auto it gave a full 6 mpg more and on
>> the Matrix which is also auto it is reliably giving 7 mpg more, so I
>> think it really comes down to how each engine/gearbox combinations uses fuel. On a car
>> as thirsty as the Matrix ( was doing 27 mpg on normal UL ) it
>> is well worth the extra, currently about 5p extra a litre.
Super unleaded is, IIRC, higher octane whereas premium diesel is about an additive package. Long time since I ran a petrol, before electronic ignition, fuel injection etc but the BX16RS, although theoretically capable of running on unleaded, could be made to 'pink' if driven hard. On super it was fine.
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>> Super unleaded is, IIRC, higher octane whereas premium diesel is about an additive package.
With diesel the additive package (or Millers DIY additive) increases the cetane level (combustability).
tinyurl.com/csslz6u
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I've always use Shell regular in the TDi, then changed to Fuelsave when it came out which I liked but that seems have 'mysteriously' disappeared from sale down here.
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Modern diesels inject diesel up to 7 times per stroke and are extremely accurately times and metered. I think that's why they don't make a big difference if an on newer technology.
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>> and on the Matrix which is also auto it is reliably giving 7 mpg more, so I think it really comes down to how each engine/gearbox combinations uses fuel. On a car as thirsty as the Matrix ( was doing 27 mpg on normal UL )
If your car is doing 34mpg on SUL and 27mpg on UL then there is something wrong with your car (other than its munterness) assuming same driving conditions.
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>>If your car is doing 34mpg on SUL and 27mpg on UL then there is something wrong with your car (other than its munterness) assuming same driving conditions <<
I had consistantly nearly the same difference with the Perodua and the car runs alot better on Super UL so if you consider a car running well a fault then perhaps...
If their MUST be something wrong with the car, care to say what it is ( other than munterness - styled by Pininfarina no less )?
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>> If their MUST be something wrong with the car, care to say what it is
>> ( other than munterness - styled by Pininfarina no less )?
Also designed the Nubira / Lacetti the next year. It was known as his Munter period.
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>>Also designed the Nubira / Lacetti the next year. It was known as his Munter period. <<
Yeah well mine has a badge saying they styled it so meh :-)
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Searching through pics of the Pininfarina design house shows plenty of gorgeous steels.
And the Matrix and Mitsu Pinin.
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I will throw you a bone - the service records dont show any change for the plugs so could now be 6-7 years old, maybe that is a factor, I dont know. Due to the way the slushbox works it is quite throttle heavy tending to hold high gears, perhaps that magnifies the differences too.
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I don't need thrown a bone - If 2-4 points on the Octane rating scale makes a car run 25% further on the same amount of fuel (which has virtually the same amount of energy but allows the engine, if so capable, to advance the timing by a couple of degrees) there is something wrong with it.
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>>I don't need thrown a bone - If 2-4 points on the Octane rating scale makes a car run 25% further on the same amount of fuel (which has virtually the same amount of energy but allows the engine, if so capable, to advance the timing by a couple of degrees) there is something wrong with it.<<
I know there are other factors but so should you, driving a car is not scientific therefore the results wont match the science unless you test it in a lab or you factor in the other things that vary.
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>> Perhaps rather embarrassing for somebody who drives a diesel car, I have never noticed premium
>> diesel at the pumps (although, according the same site, none of the stations that I
>> normally use sell it).
>>
>> Looking at the prices, it seems that it is about 11-12p per litre more expensive,
>> so that would be around £8 more to fill up.
>>
I was going to say - you certainly notice if you fill up a Premium pump by mistake as the cost is significantly greater!
Annoyingly, it seems to make no difference to my car (Merc C270CDi) either.
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Two tanks of V-Power Diesel made no perceptible difference to the 320d either. Wouldn't bother again.
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27mpg. That's something over 22p a mile for fuel alone. And, convinced as you are that this is normal operation, you still thought one of these would be a good choice for your impecunious friend?
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The diesel does 50 mpg. It is normal operation, combined figure is 31.4 so in winter 27 is about right mainly around town.
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I no longer use supermarket fuel and I am sticking with Shell for my new CR-V.
When I had my Accord Tourer I went down to Dorset with my caravan. I had filled up with Asda diesel and achieved just under 25 mpg on the full to full method. Whilst down there I topped up with Sainsbury's diesel and again with Shell. On the return journey the Accord did 30 mpg. Presently, I am getting 38 mpg with my CR-V on the urban cycle, pretty much what I got with my Accord.
I haven't done any long journeys with the CR-V yet so I have no idea what I can get. The Accord did 54 mpg, fully laden, on the French autoroutes.
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The journey to Devon/Cornwall using the M4/M5 can provide grossly confusing consumption figures for out and back!
I have always put it down to the prevailing wind being from the SW):
No matter how careful I am ( and apparently consistent) on fill-fill figures there seem to be significant errors. The only true figure that can be relied upon is longterm measurement, perhaps over the life of the vehicle. Even seasonal variations , integrating over 6 months are hard to to observe or interpret.
Last edited by: pmh on Sun 21 Apr 13 at 10:33
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Are summer / winter consumption variations caused by the different diesel spec or ambient temperature?
Or could it be one of the other multitude of variables like ankle stiffness? :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 21 Apr 13 at 12:38
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I agree with the comments about different benefits in different cars, SWMBO's FN3 Civic 2.2 CTDi appeared happier on premium diesel, it never did a high mileage and easily bettered 50mpg on any diesel but was definitely smoother on the premium stuff.
My horrid 170PD A4 couldn't be persuaded to deliver decent economy whatever I tried, I found that non-supermarket brands gave marginally better economy in my 330d but that premium diesel made little or no difference.
For petrol, the premium 98RON stuff definitely improves economy in my experience, it will depend on the price being charged as to whether it's worthwhile of course. I've a feeling that the increased Octane rating in premium petrol delivers more 'additional energy' than the increased Cetane rating in premium diesel ?
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When on Olympic duties last year we were told the BMWs HAD to be filled with BP Ultimate diesel. Apparently it helped them get slightly better economy.
It didn't hep much though, because:
1. There are only about 4 filling stations that actually sell the stuff in Greater Manchester, so you always had to drive out of your way to fill up and
2. One of my colleagues managed to fill up with unleaded.
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Just been out to fill up and I see that Shell V power is now V Power Nitro +. Not sure what is meant to be different about it !
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>> Just been out to fill up and I see that Shell V power is now
>> V Power Nitro +. Not sure what is meant to be different about it !
Goes like a bomb?
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Surely, if it was possible to quantify the benefit of using Bloggs' Premium Plus fuel rather than Smith's Premium Plus, the company would pay for an independent authority to carry out tests and then publicize those results.
The fact that TTBOMK no fuel company has ever done that, speaks for itself.
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I thought that sort of thing wasn't allowed on UK advertising, that's way you always see things like "as compared to leading rival brand".
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I think you're right, RD, but in most cases the rival is not another brand but the standard variety of the same maker's fuel. The punter at the pump needs a reason to pick up that 'premium' nozzle.
It would take an RCT over a significant period to prove a difference, but it would be legal. The difficult bit would be eliminating all the experimental artefacts: how do you stop people driving differently if they know either that their results are being monitored or that their fuel is being paid for?
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"if it was possible to quantify the benefit..."
The only 'benefit' I've ever seen claimed for so-called premium fuels is in comparison to petrol/diesel with no additives at all in it (according to the very small print in the footnotes on print ads for one brand not sold in the UK).
On the basis that my local supermarket filling station posts the delivery dockets from the refinery on the pump, and these all show a code for the additive pack added to the petrol and ultra low sulphur diesel they sell, I can't imagine there's any measurable difference between it and the premium stuff other than the price.
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Premium Diesel - rtj70
