I do it, its almost mandatory on the wider section of the M25, do you?
recombu.com/cars/articles/features/is-it-legal-to-undertake
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I do it too, if I feel it's safe enough. Busy congested roads or some mimser hogging the right hand lane
Last edited by: ToMoCo on Sun 5 May 13 at 09:19
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Yep, I do it regularly (this is all hypothetical, of course, m'Lud) when loafing along at 70 on an empty motorway and there's someone drifting by in ignorance in the middle lane. Though if there's no hard shoulder I won't, 'cos there's nowhere to go if I get it wrong.
It's a judgement call which I'd feel perfectly happy to explain to the Plod if stopped. It's not the "traditional undertaking" of the rep in an Audi, flicking from lane to lane and aggressively passing everyone in sight; it's a calculated risk and probably safer than making four lane changes in the space of 15 seconds.
The HW Code is a bit wooly on the subject, but I think to see anything come further you'd have to be driving like a true plonker, with the undertake merely being a reason to stop you.
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I do if necessary, especially on the bike. It's always been a myth that it's illegal in itself but if you are involved in an accident while undertaking that would seriously harm your defence.
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If undertaking is illegal then it should be illegal to hog middle lane too.
I often find lane 1 is fastest.
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>> If undertaking is illegal then it should be illegal to hog middle lane too.
I imagine a due care offence could equally be applied to the middle/right lane hoggers?
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One sometimes has to these days. My understanding is that on multi-lane roads it's legal if done properly and with due caution. Not sure what that means in practice.
I never really like doing it though. Everyone neglects their n/s door mirror sometimes.
It was always legal in the US. The first time I tried it there I came within an ace of running under the back of a truck and killing myself or at least doing my jalopy in. Ten seconds burned into my memory, still makes me shudder.
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"when loafing along at 70 on an empty motorway and there's someone drifting by in ignorance in the middle lane. "
If the motorway is empty as you say and the middle lane driver truly is unaware of what is around him surely it's safest to overtake on the right?
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 5 May 13 at 12:07
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I find that the more amusing way to pass the middle lane mimser is to stay in the nearside lane and watch for someone bombing down the offside lane. Increase your speed to time your overtake of said mimser along with that of lane 3 bomber. A sort of pincer manoeuvre. Sadly I'll never know if middle lane mimser ever gets it.
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>> "when loafing along at 70 on an empty motorway and there's someone drifting by in
>> ignorance in the middle lane. "
>>
>> If the motorway is empty as you say and the middle lane driver truly is
>> unaware of what is around him surely it's safest to overtake on the right?
>>
>>
>>
I used to be a fan of the parabolic swerve across all three lanes and back again in one fluid movement, but can't be bothered these days.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 5 May 13 at 21:39
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>> I like this one.
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5dL4DPm-DE
>>
A shame that the driver can't express himself without so much juvenile swearing.
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OOPS, sorry, I had the sound off.
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>> shame that the driver can't express himself without so much juvenile swearing.
Oh, I dunno. Sounds a bit like me, but not so loud. One can only sympathise with the general sentiment.
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>> I like this one.
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5dL4DPm-DE
>>
I love the way the idiot hit the brakes because some nasty person dazzled him by flashing....
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Swerve on a motorway?
You're in the nearside lane on a near empty motorway and catching up with a car in the middle lane. Surely you signal, join the middle lane well behind the offending vehicle, overtake and return to the middle lane well in front of the offending vehicle and then return to the nearside lane if clear.
Anything else is just making point, poor driving and and potentially dangerous
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I agree with FF. On a motorway and with an escape route to the hard shoulder or another lane it's acceptable.
There's a local dual carriageway which used to be NSL but is now 40. Change anticipated development and new junctions that have been postponed by the recession.
Most people still treat it as 70 but every now and then somebody mimses down at 38 in the outside lane. I'd be very chary of undertaking them with only verge or hedge as a refuge.
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On a TOTALLY empty three lane road I would drive in the centre lane;gives you the most manoevure room should anytthing happen.
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>> On a TOTALLY empty three lane road I would drive in the centre lane;gives you
>> the most manoevure room should anytthing happen.
>>
So do I, and it is not unusual to have empty roads in this bit of the world at quiet times. It is no hassle to move left a lane if someone is catching up on you.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 5 May 13 at 14:49
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I never ever drive in the centre lane on any roads here in Cornwall.
The fact that all the roads are 1 or 2 lane roads and there aren't any motorways might have something to do with it.
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Round here you have to drive over the grass down the middle.
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Nobody's mentioned the HC's two key points on this.
1. The road must be congested, with all lanes in use, although the traffic is not necessarily slow-moving as it used to require;
2. You may not move to the left to overtake, but you may keep up with traffic in your own lane.
So FF's lane 1 overtake on an otherwise empty carriageway (of three lanes or more) would not be allowed. Even with all lanes in use, I do it only occasionally. The incident I mentioned in my C220 report occurred while I was keeping up with lane 1 when the BMW driver to my right attempted a mirrorless move left.
But yes, I do it, and consider it safe and reasonable when done judiciously.
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>> Nobody's mentioned the HC's two key points on this.
>>
>> 1. The road must be congested, with all lanes in use, although the traffic is
>> not necessarily slow-moving as it used to require;
>> 2. You may not move to the left to overtake, but you may keep up
>> with traffic in your own lane.
>>
In the UK I don't tend to undertake except in the circumstances cited above, in Aus it is perfectly legal and customary which results in many urban/suburban dual lane roads with a 37mph limit feeling like a race-track imho. You are warned by the Victorian equivalent of the HC that cars moving left may not see you undertaking but it 'feels' to me that you have to concentrate so-much harder when driving because you can't assume the car behind you to the left won't try to undertake as you move left (e.g. if you want to turn off), I'm not sure it helps traffic flow either.
Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I don't see the legal / general adoption of undertaking as beneficial.
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>>, in Aus it is perfectly legal and customary which results in many urban/suburban dual lane roads
>> with a 37mph limit feeling like a race-track imho. You are warned by the Victorian
>> equivalent of the HC that cars moving left may not see you undertaking but it
>> 'feels' to me that you have to concentrate so-much harder when driving because you can't
>> assume the car behind you to the left won't try to undertake as you move
>> left (e.g. if you want to turn off), I'm not sure it helps traffic flow
>> either.
>>
>> Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I don't see the legal / general adoption of undertaking as
>> beneficial.
>>
One traffic manoeuvre the Australians use which causes a sphincter twitch until you are used to it is a vehicle turning right into a lane to your right, particularly if you are approaching at speed.
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>> One traffic manoeuvre the Australians use which causes a sphincter twitch until you are
>> used to it is a vehicle turning right into a lane to your right, particularly if
>> you are approaching at speed.
>>
That and U-turns, they love to do U-turns, anywhere, any place - across 4 fast moving lanes ? Game on for an Aussie, why they can't just go round the block or whatever I'll never know. Then there are 'hook turns', kinda like using a U-turn technique to turn right. Maybe undertaking isn't so bad after all.....
Oh, and one has an unalienable right to stop wherever one wants to pick up a takeaway or whatever else, I think it is possibly illegal to walk more than 5 metres to any shop, certainly frowned upon anyway.
Whingeing Pom that I am, I feel better for my rant though ;-)
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>> Oh, and one has an unalienable right to stop wherever one wants to pick up
>> a takeaway or whatever else, I think it is possibly illegal to walk more than
>> 5 metres to any shop, certainly frowned upon anyway.
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>> Whingeing Pom that I am, I feel better for my rant though ;-)
>>
At heart they are just trainee Americans. :-)
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>> At heart they are just trainee Americans. :-)
>>
Yep, I am told that Australia looked to the US for leadership when the UK was felt to have abandoned them somewhat after WWII.
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>> One traffic manoeuvre the Australians use which causes a sphincter twitch until you are used
>> to it is a vehicle turning right into a lane to your right, particularly if
>> you are approaching at speed.
>>
I learned to drive in Australia when there was an absolute give way to the right rule, (although used with discretion when joining a fast main road). I suspect this is where the "turn right into the right lane" comes from.
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>> Nobody's mentioned the HC's two key points on this.
>>
>> 1. The road must be congested, with all lanes in use, although the traffic is
>> not necessarily slow-moving as it used to require;
>> 2. You may not move to the left to overtake, but you may keep up
>> with traffic in your own lane.
>>
>> So FF's lane 1 overtake on an otherwise empty carriageway (of three lanes or more)
>> would not be allowed. Even with all lanes in use, I do it only occasionally.
>> The incident I mentioned in my C220 report occurred while I was keeping up with
>> lane 1 when the BMW driver to my right attempted a mirrorless move left.
>>
>> But yes, I do it, and consider it safe and reasonable when done judiciously.
>>
Ah, but if I'm the ONLY traffic in my lane, I am by definition keeping up with myself and therefore am allowed to undertake.
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When I drove from Rome to Pompeii I kept on the inside lane all the way and undertook thousands of cars. Didn't encounter another single car, ever, on the inside lane. I was also the only driver that didn't have an arm dangling out, resting against the skin of the door.
I'm the same as many guys on this forum - driving along on cruise in very light traffic in the inside line and ignoring the occasional dithering middle-lane-hog. I pass them without changing lane at all.
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Don't the Italians call it 'the lane of shame'?
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Ah, but if I'm the ONLY traffic in my lane, I am by definition keeping up with myself and therefore am allowed to undertake.
Nope - see point (1) above. There has to be traffic in all three (or four) lanes.
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The traffic police drivers I know say they always use the motorway middle lane whatever the traffic conditions in normal driving as they have more options in an emergency.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Tue 7 May 13 at 18:30
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Is it legal to undertake in the UK? - ToMoCo
