www.express.co.uk/news/uk/412312/Race-star-Frank-Wrathall-killed-cyclist-as-he-chatted-on-phone
Does anyone here still think they are a good enough driver to use a phone and drive at the same time?
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Ten years in jail; lifetime driving ban.
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Chary of too much comment while case is still ongoing but if the driving was as described by the prosecution then clearly this bloke could not. Classic case of a left hook.
Might get away with it in a car if you're lucky but in a mahoosive panel van with a trailer?
And I see the Express believes English judges use gavels.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 7 Jul 13 at 08:59
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Having seen the way BTCC drivers barge each other around on the track, he would probably have done the cyclist in, phone or no phone. They are all, almost without exception, aggressive obnoxious self centred persons, but without the driving skills to make it further up the racing driver tree.
Make for good racing tho.
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Being highly skilled at driving a race car and interacting safely with other traffic on public roads are different things entirely.
Last edited by: Robin Regal on Sun 7 Jul 13 at 10:27
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Not just on four wheels either. Ron Haslam never passed a bike test till he was in his 30's IIRC.
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To answer Navy's question.
Yes some people can drive well and do other things, some can't drive if they concentrate 100% and they never will.
One size doesn't fit all and it never will, instead of training up or preferably only allowing those competent to drive to actually do so by adequate testing we legislate for the lowest common denominator.
Its the British way.
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>> One size doesn't fit all and it never will, instead of training up or preferably
>> only allowing those competent to drive to actually do so by adequate testing we legislate
>> for the lowest common denominator.
>>
>> Its the British way.
>>
As it has to be, otherwise the whole thing wouldn't work. If only those who were able to reach an above average standard were allowed to drive there would be a marked effect on the economy. You'd have fewer cars to deliver, there'd be fewer jobs in car factories and associated industries and what cars were made would be more expensive to buy, plus the many knock on effects throughout the economy in general.
The present rate of road casualties are well below what we deem to be acceptable in order to enjoy the benefits mass car ownership brings.
Last edited by: Robin Regal on Sun 7 Jul 13 at 11:23
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Perhaps very few people are incapable of driving reasonably well.
Many just don't bother, because there is no requirement to do it.
We could start by shooting a few who never signal, or do it contemporaneously with the manoeuvre, pour encourager les autres.
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>> They are all, almost without
>> exception, aggressive obnoxious self centred persons,
I don't know about the others but Plato certainly fits that bill.
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>> I don't know about the others but Plato certainly fits that bill.
Them philosophers is all smug gits.
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Is he a "star" or just one of the large number of drivers in the BTCC? How can what appears to be a pretty simple case take 14 months to come to a court hearing? No wonder the beardy one took 10 years be be sorted!
Last edited by: Meldrew on Sun 7 Jul 13 at 11:39
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>> How can what appears to be a pretty simple case take 14 months to
>> come to a court hearing? No wonder the beardy one took 10 years be be
>> sorted!
>>
Time is money...........in a lawyers pocket. :-)
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>> Does anyone here still think they are a good enough driver to use a phone
>> and drive at the same time?
>>
Why do we allow hands free telephone calls? The distraction is the in depth conversation, not physically holding something in your hand.
We haven't banned smoking, fiddling with the radio or picking your nose...yet.
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You can hardly legislate against the conversation - what about passengers in your car?
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>> You can hardly legislate against the conversation - what about passengers in your car?
>>
Just highlighting the absurdity of it all.
Other than the catch all WDC/Reckless, you can lean over to the passenger seat, select 5 CD's, choose the one you want, undo the case, remove the old one from the CD player, replace it with new, select the track you want, etc...all whilst driving and no specific offence committed as long as your driving appears reasonable.
Yet, your mobile can ring, you can pick it up, press the green button, press another button for loudspeaker, put it down again...and you have committed an offence....
......however, same phone, same journey and by now you've fiddled with the hands free thingy attached to your sun visor, you can have the same length, same distracting phone call...no offence.
Holding a phone whilst driving isn't a problem. Holding a phone whilst driving and concentrating on the phone call not your driving, that is the problem.
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>> Holding a phone whilst driving isn't a problem. Holding a phone whilst driving and concentrating
>> on the phone call not your driving, that is the problem.
Its not looking where you are going is the problem. And that is more likely to happen while you are looking at a phone in your hand as opposed to hands free.
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Slightly ambiguous headline though.
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I neither condone nor condemn, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else, but I'll answer a call hands free on the move - not really much different to talking with a passenger, and I'll suspend the conversation for a hazard in exactly the same way.
If it gets complicated, then the driving interferes with the phone call and I end it or stop. In fact, I have noticed some terrible driving by people talking animatedly with passengers.
I do think hand held, and most obviously texting, is a problem. People look at them for a start, and instead of holding them up they have to hide them on their laps so their eyes are well away from the road.
If we ban radio communications on the move we will have to ban the police etc. as well.
Some people are careless on or off the phone. Phoning while driving was almost non-existent in the mid 80s. Now it is ubiquitous. Yet KSI in 1990 was 65,000 (killed, 5217), in 2011 it was 25,000 (killed, 1901). Of course we don't know what it would have been without mobiles, but 50% of white van drivers with a phone clapped to the earhole don't seem to be having a major effect on the statistics.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_Road_Casualties_Great_Britain
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Come to Sweden - you can still legally use the handset here.
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Legally, maybe - wisely/sensibly, no
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Or here in NL. Allegedly illegal, but most drivers spend their time with a phone glued to one ear and nobody does anything about it.
I have to give kudos points to the female cylist I saw the other day who came a cropper on the cobbles in town. Over the handlebars she went and ended up picking herself up off the floor without interrupting her phone call.......
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>> Why do we allow hands free telephone calls? The distraction is the in depth conversation,
>> not physically holding something in your hand.
>>
>> We haven't banned smoking, fiddling with the radio or picking your nose...yet.
If you analyse this from a lawmakers point of view there are two risks. The first is lack of full observation and control due to holding the phone, viewing it and using the keypad etc. The second is the loss of focus due to depth of conversation.
The first is easy to deal with, initially using careless or WDC and now the specific usage offence. Apart from actually spotting the phone in hand it's often detectable by observation of vehicle weaving etc in road. If only it were enforced properly it might deter. There's plenty evidence of accidents where driver was on phone. Not necessarily serious to appear in stats, let alone as KSI, but carrying an economic cost nonetheless.
The second is a matter of degree. One would need some evidence of real cases before even trying to frame effective legislation. As MAnatee infers requires common sense on the part of the hands free participant to manage the call through hazards or if it gets too involved. OTOH though if you're in precarious employment controlling a call from a boss or customer in those circs ain't easy.
I'd happily ban smoking in cars but controls, particularly in modern all singing all dancing vehicles are too complex to safely manage on the move.
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