Motoring Discussion > "Civil" penalty charge	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: SteelSpark	Replies: 19

New Tue 1 Jun 10 18:02   "Civil" penalty charge - SteelSpark

I parked in an Asda car park today which had a 3 hour limit and then a "civil" penalty charge of £60. I know that in most cases these are not enforceable, but in the back of my mind I seem to remember that if they were allowed to put penalty charge rather than parking charge on the sign, that it was an indication that they could enforce it. My gut told me that the "civil" parking charge was probably akin to the unenforcible "parking" charge, so I just left it there. I didn't get a ticket anyway, but was I correct to think that it would be unenforcible? Does the parking/penalty wording actually have the relevance that I assigned to it, and does the "civil" bit make any difference? The signs said that the car park was patrolled by what appeared to be a private company (something like Town & City Parking) rather than the council. Any thoughts appreciated. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 1 Jun 10 18:27   "Civil" penalty charge - Ted

Go and ask the store manager if he can tell you under what legislation can a penalty be imposed. If this is simply an invoice, or a Parking Charge then you can tell him that Asda are breaking the law by threatening a fine or penalty. Administration of justice Act 1970, Sec 40. My local Asda threaten a fine if no blue badge displayed. I've spoken to one of their managers but they haven't altered them. I was annoyed some time ago when a driver, young and seemingly fit, parked in one of the disabled spaces, ran to the staff door and let himself in with the keypad. If the staff abuse the spaces what chance do customers have ? Often there's a works van taking a space when working in the store. I bet they don't get ' fined ' Ted Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 1 Jun 10 18:38   "Civil" penalty charge - Mark

A fine can only be imposed by the courts, private companies have no rights to impose fines for any reasons. All Town and Country can do is send you an invoice which they will say you are obliged to pay. The reality is they will try to convince you that have formed a contract with them when you parked, which you have breached hence their penalty request. If you mug up on contract law you will find they are on very shaky ground. Best advice is not to respond, or provide them with any information, or to get drawn into their self administered "appeals process" and to marvel at their ever escalating levels of threats which will take the form of debt collection letters (usually in house) and legal threats. Keep all their bumpf for reference but they do eventually get bored and move onto the next punter. Chances of them ever taking you to court and winning are about the same as Lord Lucan winning next years Grand National whilst riding Shergar. Go to the Parking forum over on Pepipoo for more information about these chancers. As always Mark Last edited by: Mark on Tue 1 Jun 10 at 18:42 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 1 Jun 10 20:47   "Civil" penalty charge - Zero

>> Chances of them ever taking you to court and winning are about the same as >> Lord Lucan winning next years Grand National whilst riding Shergar. Lord Lucan came in second on Shergar behind Lester Piggot on Sea Biscuit wearing the Queen Mothers colours at the Pearly gates derby last week Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 1 Jun 10 18:34   "Civil" penalty charge - Skoda

I like this novelty of (if not the actual approach taken) this guy's approach --> www.heraldscotland.com/the-phantom-parker-is-not-just-the-ticket-for-city-council-1.870068 They've edited the story to include the latest update about the Dodge Ram as if it's just a part of the original story, but they've missed half the laugh by doing that. The original story was published without that line. The council guys were goading him about getting a bigger truck, he told them he thought they were talking rubbish, they told him the delivery date of the new truck. He didn't tell them about his plans to import the dodge ram at that point, as per the edited story. The council only found out when they rocked up with their shiny new lorry and found a shiny new american behemoth parked where the roller would normally be. Also found a gaggle of reporters and cameras at the ready, tipped off presumably by the guy himself... Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 1 Jun 10 20:42   "Civil" penalty charge - Dwight Van Driver

You will find that the official ticket which should not be ignored will be headed PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE. Those issued in a contract breach will be headed PARKING CHARGE NOTICE or similar but they cannot at law use Penalty Charge Notice www.tinyurl.com/lewaow www.tinyurl.com/2hr37d www.tinyurl.com/yw8nnu of interest dvd Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 2 Jun 10 10:08   "Civil" penalty charge - hobby

I entirely agree re these "fines" and wish they'd change the law so it was the same as north of the border... But I also feel that they should be able to enforce any fine where there is misuse of a disabled space... Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 2 Jun 10 10:28   "Civil" penalty charge - bathtub tom

SWMBO parked in a disabled bay at an out-of-town DIY shed when I had a leg in plaster and was getting around on crutches. A disabled badge holder, who appeared far more mobile than me, was incandescent that we'd parked there. We hadn't inconvenienced anyone as other places were available. I didn't have a disabled badge and wouldn't dream of parking in 'official' disabled bays, but in a private car park? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 2 Jun 10 10:35   "Civil" penalty charge - hobby

Same reason as any car park, BT, I'd toss your comment back to you, if its not ok to misuse one in a public car park why should a private one be any different... does the disability suddenly make itself better when going private? As regards the other person, neither you nor I actually know what was wrong with that other person so I'll not comment... though I've said before that they need to review who they give BBs out to as in my opinion they are far too easy to get hold of and only should be there for people who really need them. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 2 Jun 10 12:46   "Civil" penalty charge - VxFan

>> A disabled badge holder, who appeared far more mobile than me, was incandescent that we'd parked there. Maybe they had a disabled passenger on board and were waiting for them / dropping them off. I've had comments passed at me for parking in a disabled bay while dropping off or picking up my parents who both have badges. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 2 Jun 10 14:26   "Civil" penalty charge - Iffy

The blue badge disabled parking scheme does not apply on private property, such as supermarket car parks. I think most people would agree it is sensible for the supermarket to reserve spaces for the disabled, and it makes sense to 'piggy back' on the blue badge scheme to establish who is qualified to park in those spaces. But they might just as well have spaces reserved for red cars only or Ford Focus drivers - I might ask about that. :) Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 2 Jun 10 15:38   "Civil" penalty charge - bathtub tom

I've a neighbour who, somehow, qualifies for a disabled badge. He manages to walk his dogs for an hour or so a couple of times every day. His wife will use the badge when she's out shopping because 'I might buy something for him'. My late MIL had one when she was wheelchair bound and it meant we could still get her to places like the town centre that would otherwise have been very difficult. VxFan. Please see my post: We hadn't inconvenienced anyone as other places were available. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 2 Jun 10 15:53   "Civil" penalty charge - hobby

>> His wife will use the badge when she's out shopping because 'I might buy something >> for him'. That's misuse and should be reported to your local council who will take it forward with the holder. The holder must be using the vehicle at the time it is used. She has no need of it and should not therefore use it... In fact if I have SWMBO in the car but she will not be leaving it then I will use an ordinary space, as leaving the badge holder in the car (and having no intention of taking him/her with you) whilst you shop I'd say is also against the spirit, if not the rules... and I also feel sorry for those little old dears that get left in there for hours at a time! I take your point about other spaces (I assume you mean disabled ones!) but that still doesn't make it right as you don't know who's going to arrive while you are shopping... though I do understand where you are coming from and have some sympathy... just two wrongs don't make a right! Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 2 Jun 10 20:23   "Civil" penalty charge - Woodster

In my experience there's a huge misuse of the blue badge but rarely is the use checked. Countless times I've seen apparently able bodied people using them. I'm going to apply for one on the basis that I have a psychological disposition to random acts of violence towards people asking why I'm parking somewhere... Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 2 Jun 10 21:45   "Civil" penalty charge - VxFan

>> VxFan. Please see my post: We hadn't inconvenienced anyone as other places were available. At that moment in time maybe. How many other spaces were available though? If for arguments sake there were only two spaces and it was a popular car park, then it wouldn't take long for those two spaces to become occupied and thus leaving no spare spaces because you're occupying one of them. OK, you had a valid reason for using the disabled space, albeit without an authorised permit, but genuinely disabled badge holders can become quite territorial over spaces reserved for them. I know of a couple of disabled drivers who think nothing of blocking in cars that don't display the blue badge. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 3 Jun 10 21:35   "Civil" penalty charge - Herr Sandwichmann

Cars with able bodied occupants parking in disabled bays is extremely antisocial. Usually high powered BMWs or Chelsea tractors, IME. On the other hand... Every day without fail a driver with a disabled badge parks right across a dropped curb at a junction near where I work. Incredibly selfish, as everyone else who uses a wheelchair, mobility chair, pram, etc. is inconvenienced, sometimes massively so. I saw someone challenging the driver about where he parked and they received a mouthful. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 4 Jun 10 09:38   "Civil" penalty charge - Alanovich

>> Cars with able bodied occupants parking in disabled bays is extremely antisocial. Usually high powered >> BMWs or Chelsea tractors, IME. A car park I use most days near my office always has a Porsche Cayenne in it. There's one disabled spot. Yep, you've guessed it, the Cayenne is usually in it, even when other places are available. It has no blue badge. I suppose the owner can't park it or open its ruddy doors in a normal space. If I ever see the driver, I challenge them, however I expect I'll either be ignored or get the "I'll do woteva I like, innit" response. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 4 Jun 10 14:15   "Civil" penalty charge - hobby

>> Every day without fail a driver with a disabled badge parks right across a dropped >> curb Same reply as I made earlier... the BB is NOT a licence to park anywhere and that is just as illegal as a non-BB driver using a disabled space... The booklet you get with the BB is pretty good... suggest that you ask them to read it and say otherwise you'll have to tell the Police... Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 4 Jun 10 22:12   "Civil" penalty charge - Bromptonaut

Not convinced that the AJA 1970 is a cure all in these circs though it may be useful with debt collectors. Interesting that the links above suggest more recent legislation on harrasment as being in play. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 8 Jun 10 20:23   "Civil" penalty charge - Brentus

Ignore all correspondence. They have to prove who was driving. Plenty of material to study on web. Reply to this message | Report message