Been racking my brains over what to do when my leased Volvo goes back in October.
Given that I need to replace Mrs B's Sharan with an 8 seater I couldn't really justify the cost of getting myself another new motor, so decided it was time to go bangernomics for a while.
Anyway, scouting around I have picked up a £500 1998 Audi A3 1.8T. Its done enough miles to have got it to the moon (and be on its way back) and the bodywork has clearly seen a fair bit of paint over the years, but on the positives it has 10 month's MOT, couple of months tax and a fairly well stamped up service book. It also has a few options such as leather, CD changer in boot (to compliment the tape deck!) and climate control, all of which works!
We have spent a gentle 150 miles together so far and she runs very sweetly with a better clutch / gearchange than she deserves to have at her age.
The clincher for the deal was that earlier in the year she also had new cambelt, tensioners and waterpump.
I'm assuming that the trip computer is wildly optimistic as its claiming over 42 mpg since I picked her up. It was brimmed so I'll work out the figures at the next fill up but has anyone any experience of how efficient these engines are?
I figured that at the same price as 2 months lease then it was worth a punt.
I'll update as and when something goes wrong!
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I like the original A3, and I think its aged very well indeed though there seem to be a decreasing number of unmolested ones around now :-(
Whilst I haven't had an A3 with that engine I have had an A4 in '96, followed 18 months later by an A6, both with the 1.8T engine. They were both manual, and even in the A6 it was brisk enough most of the time. It struggled to top 30 to the gallon in that car though; fortunately I had a fuel card... In the A4 it averaged mid thirties to the gallon, so I'd have thought mid to late thirties was achievable in an A3. From memory the trip computers in Audis of that period were hopelessly optimistic - easily 10% out. That's make 42 a 'true' 37.5 or so, which sounds about right for normal use. Too heavy a right foot, using all of the 150bhp (assuming it hasn't been chipped - I think 180ish is relatively achievable) would see that plummet, which was the problem with the A6. It'd shift, but you had 'encourage' it :-)
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These are four cylinder 20v engines if memory serves me right and were available in the TT with up to 225bhp out of the factory. Not sure how they were tuned in the A3.
Or was the 20v for the TT only ?
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A3 engines: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_a3#Engines
The last 1.8T TTs had 240bhp, and 10 spoke alloys - I gaze longingly at one on my walk back from the station :)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_TT#8N_engines
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Yes, its the 20V 150 bhp and it appears to be completely unmolested. Well worn, but original.
From looking around many of them have been chipped / modded which may be why this one has survived in original condition
Thought my 42mpg sounded way to good to be true, but in reality I was aiming for 35 - 38 so hopefully when I brim it I will be able to get an idea of actual MPG.
Went to a wedding yesterday and upon having a few shandys Mrs B drove it home and it even got her seal of approval - I think mainly because all the VAG switch-gear was just like being in her Sharan so she felt at home
Mrs B working 50 miles away tonight and was up for taking it, but I have decided against that. Think I will spend a few weeks with it rather than get a call to say she is stranded in the M4!
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>> Thought my 42mpg sounded way to good to be true, but in reality I was
>> aiming for 35 - 38 so hopefully when I brim it I will be able
>> to get an idea of actual MPG.
>>
I had a FIAT Coupe 20v turbo of the same '98 S plate era. That was a five cylinder 2.0 with 4v/cylinder. The best I ever got out of that was 32/33mpg driving like a Nun. Usual was between 28mpg in the UK or 12mpg on an autobahn.
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We had a 1999 1.8T Passat with this engine and was more economical than the 1.8 it replaced (as long as you didn't thrash it. If you did it could really go through petrol, and tyres. Only car where I remember spinning both front wheels.
Was very quick when needed to be.
In 96K nothing really went wrong but it did discharge the battery occasionally.
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I'm pretty sure they were all the 20v units, but seem to recall that the 225 had a different turbo and possibly a few other physical differences as well. In standard tune it was 150PS in the A3/4/6, though a 180 PS version was offered in a version of the A4 I think - not sure about the A3. The 225PS engine was put in the A3, but it became an S3!
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I had the 1.8T 20v engine in a Golf GTi, Audi A4 Sport, and two Passat Sports. All ranging from 99 T Plate to 2000 W plates. Enough power and torque at the time... but nowhere near as responsive as a 170PS diesel engine in a heavier car.
Looking forward to a day of having a Golf GTD with 184PS tomorrow :-)
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Neighbour's Son works for Bugatti he usually shows up in a Golf GTD these days.
Previously would take an R36 Passat or whatever had six+ cylinders.
I'd be interested in hearing what this 184PS Golf is like as many had previously commented the 170PS was a step too far...
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 15 Sep 13 at 19:28
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>>Neighbour's Son works for Bugatti he usually shows up in a Golf GTD these days.
Where are Bugatti based apart from France then? But I know Bentley staff will have their choice of nice VW's and Audi's.
I have the 170PS diesel in my current Passat. I can't find fault with it. Good mpg too. But if you want to make progress there's plenty of go in it too.
I think you might be commenting on the development of the older engines (maybe even PDi?). The current engines are fine and BMW take 2.0l diesels well over 200bhp in standard offerings (like the 525d). And I know my car is easily 'chipped'... except it is not mine so I'm not going to get it to produce over 200PS.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 15 Sep 13 at 20:30
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Mikey. Interesting we have both fallen off the Ling wagon for a modest size, interesting, quick & cheap old car.
Mine was only supposed to be for three months while I decided what lease car to have next but both the actual car and the concept have worked very well.
My total spend so far to buy, MOT, repair, service, fit 4 tyres and do second service last week is just £1253 over 9mths. To have taken another lease like the C5 would have been £3300 over the same period. If the Alfa failed tomorrow I'd still get £300 to break and be £2300+ up on lease costs. If I chose to sell it now I guess I'd get £900 or more so be almsot £3000 up.
Interestingly Mrs F is so happy with the saved cash she's hinted a newer model Alfa 156/159 estate could be approved any time I wanted ( A change of circumstances means I need an estate for my business now as I keep having to borrow her C3 to carry large stuff).
Having said that for what we were doing during the 3yr lease period it made sense and if similar circumstances presented again I'd be straight onto Ling.
Your Volvo must have been a short lease to go back so soon??
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 16 Sep 13 at 13:19
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I like the VAG 1.8T engine. We had a T-reg Golf GTi 150PS with starship (>150k) miles on it. It was utterly reliable, very smooth and surprisingly frugal. It did high 30's to the gallon and always felt more like a bigger, naturally aspirated engine than a relatively small turbocharged unit. It was probably a bit smooth and mellow in character for a hot hatch, but a nice engine nonetheless.
A table explaining the multitude of versions available is here:
www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?34368-1-8T-20V-Engine-codes-FAQ
Ours was the early "AGU" unit which has forged internals, large head ports, and can be reliably tuned on standard internals, to over 300 bhp with a K04 turbo, bigger injectors and a map.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 16 Sep 13 at 14:27
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I'm reminded on arriving home a few minutes ago a chap several doors down bought a red 2001 Audi A3 S3 a couple of months ago. 4WD and 225hp as far as I can see. Looks quite ordinary (in a good way) with just big wheels and a small badge front/rear to give awy its spec.
Bet that's a nice drive.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 16 Sep 13 at 16:49
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>> Ours was the early "AGU" unit which has forged internals, large head ports, and can
>> be reliably tuned on standard internals, to over 300 bhp with a K04 turbo, bigger
>> injectors and a map.
>>
Yep, that's what I've got. I like the fact it has a fair amount of torque at low revs and pulls cleanly. Not quick, more of a warm hatch
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Fenlander - the Volvo was a ling special for a mere 18 months which is just as well as I have never really bonded with it in the same way I did with the C5.
I took the A3 to work today as a couple of the guys were keen to see what I had bought and today was the day that several major routes in the area were stuffed so my 20 - 25 minute commute became 1 hour 10 however, that did give the old girl a good work out and proved the cooling system was up to the job.
My bangernomics colleague liked it - he is current driving an MG ZR with the diesel lump in it. Think it was around 700 quid and a week after purchase he drove ot to the south of France. done about 5K over the last few months and he is happy although was gutted to find that everything on my A3 works
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>> The current engines are fine and BMW take 2.0l diesels well over 200bhp in
>> standard offerings (like the 525d). And I know my car is easily 'chipped'... except it
>> is not mine so I'm not going to get it to produce over 200PS.
>>
I can't see a 123d doing 2 or 300,000 miles without major surgery. There's got to be a trade off between extracting that power from a relatively small diesel and life span.
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Why? Not meaning to pick on you, Gmac - it's often said here - but is there any real-world evidence (and I mean something stronger than 'my mate's car needed four new gropemuffins at 60,000') that durability is declining?
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Just what I see with my own car which is serviced on the dot and everything is seen to when it requires it. I've cracked the exhaust downpipe which is not something my indie has ever seen with another D5, and I've now got a rattly turbo and the car hasn't hit 6 figures yet.
It's starting to feel it's age (9). Suspect your unmolested '01 or '02 car will still be on the road long after my '04 has gone to the scrapper.
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...not something my indie has ever seen with another D5...
Meaning that your indie works mostly with the D5 163 like mine? That's had an intercooler and a DMF, but neither could be attributed to its power output.
Consider that 150hp from a petrol 2.0 was thar be dragons territory even into the 1990s - I remember a carpet tile salesman I used to know boasting about the '130-horsepower lump' in his Cavalier SRi. You couldn't keep increasing outputs - they would have muttered if there'd been fora to mutter it in - the engines won't stand the strain. And yet reliability went on improving, in spite of catalytic converters, fuel injection, turbos, common rails and everything else that was dismissed as 'just an expensive con on the motorist'. I expect HJ was at it even then.
I wonder if the muddled thinking (and again, I don't mean you, Gmac) comes from watching F1 engines, tuned to the edge of endurance and driven to match, disintegrate in mid-race. I know some things are different in Germany but doubt your D5 has had that treatment.
}:---)
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>> ...not something my indie has ever seen with another D5...
>>
>> Meaning that your indie works mostly with the D5 163 like mine? That's had an
>> intercooler and a DMF, but neither could be attributed to its power output.
>>
That's just the intercooler being made of chocolate and being a well known weakness on that engine. The one on my car has also been replaced almost two years ago @70-something thousand miles. DMFs are another well documented item usually not reaching 120k miles.
>> Consider that 150hp from a petrol 2.0 was thar be dragons territory even into the
>> 1990s - I remember a carpet tile salesman I used to know boasting about the
>> '130-horsepower lump' in his Cavalier SRi. You couldn't keep increasing outputs - they would have
>> muttered if there'd been fora to mutter it in - the engines won't stand the
>> strain. And yet reliability went on improving, in spite of catalytic converters, fuel injection, turbos,
>> common rails and everything else that was dismissed as 'just an expensive con on the
>> motorist'. I expect HJ was at it even then.
>>
The difference is these days those forums do exist and reports of engines eating their own internals or other failures make you wonder about the longevity of the engine as an out of warranty prospect for ownership.
Of course manufacturers invest a lot of money in developing and refining the engines. My own fear is being saddled with an engine the manufacturer has decided has reached the end of development, they are off pursuing the next generation and I'm left with an expensive mistake.
Last edited by: gmac on Mon 16 Sep 13 at 22:36
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My
>> own fear is being saddled with an engine the manufacturer has decided has reached the
>> end of development, they are off pursuing the next generation and I'm left with an
>> expensive mistake.
The last place you want to be is at the beginning of the next development cycle. Many an expensive mistake to be found there!
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True, but when it's the current product manufacturers are more inclined to help you out.
Yesterday's news is for fish 'n chip wrappers on the way to the bin.
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I had the 125BHP n/a 20V 1.8 in an A4 B5 which I still remember fondly, it was sprightly enough although quite low geared IIRC, returned mid to high 30s on a run but low 30s in mixed motoring. Once during the petrol tanker dispute in 2000 I drove London to the NW at 50 mph on empty motorways, IIRC the trip computer showed 55mpg and given the lack of traffic we got there in almost the same time as our regular cut & thrust 70-80mph run would have taken.
Never achieved anything like that again mind.
We got a Golf IV 2.0 GTi (ish) for SWMBO on the back of this, we wanted the same engine but VW dropped it for the technically inferior 2.0 just as we ordered ours - a bit like dropping the twin charger for a lower powered turbo in the Golf VI.
Agree with comments about buying into new technology once it's established.
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Manufacturers don't always get it right. I was talking to a chap over the weekend who has just had the engine replaced in his 2013 Fabia vRS at 5,000 miles due to excessive oil consumption. He'd added over 10 litres of oil during this period. It is a fairly common problem too.
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I see Skoda are dropping the Fabia vRS. Although I'm generally a VAG fan (3rd Octavia vRS on order), I'm suspicious of that highly-tuned 180 bhp version of the 1.4 engine - perhaps not destined for a long trouble-free life.
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I'm suspicious the vRS has become too successful and is taking sales from the smaller Audis ;-)
Certainly, our local Skoda dealer was of the view automatic diesel Superbs were dropped to stop them taking Passat sales...
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>> automatic diesel Superbs were dropped
Hey? When did that happen? Surely a diesel auto (DSG obvs) is the absolute perfect format for the Superb? Company/company lease car talk is back on the agenda with me, and I was thinking about trying one of those. Would be staggered if you can't buy/lease a new diesel auto Superb.
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>> >> automatic diesel Superbs were dropped
Just took a moment to use the configurator on Skoda's website. DSGs (autos) are available on the diesel Superbs, Gromit.
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Alanovic: DSGs (autos) are available on the diesel Superbs
They weren't - in Ireland - until very recently. Which is why the dealer was aggrieved: he knew he could sell them, and he knew they were being made in RHD, but he couldn't get any for fear VW would lose sales!
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It appears to be a common problem on the recent VAG petrol engines, they can drink oil, SWMBOs 2.0 Eos was one of the few cars I have had to put oil into between services.
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I've had 3 VAG 1.9TDi PDs and one 2.0TDi PD. All used oil between services. The one we currently have still, the Golf 1.9TDi PD 100PS, uses the least.
Which reminds me, it's been a year since I changed the oil. That's this weekend taken care of, then.
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Eurocarparts have had some half price oil and filter offers on recently if there is one near you.
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Yes there is, I pretty much always use them for oil and filters.
Although their website is giving cause for concern at the moment - when I put our Golf's reg number in, it sends me to the wrong grade of oil. Which is a bit naff. It was fine last year, but this year I am lucky to have noticed their error, and I can find the type I need.
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Yes I'm very wary of their choices by reg no and always cross reference. I've just serviced the Alfa a bit early on their offers and bought the C3 bits ready to do soon.
Their email offeres recently have been so good and so frequent I wondered if there was an element of desperation for sales??
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I think their approach is now broadly "DFS". i.e. list price is meaningless as there's always a "sale" on.
Their "discounted" prices are usually the same as those available on carparts4less, which as someone (can't remember who, but thanks to them anyway) here helpfully pointed out, is the same company.
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I have just ordered a set of front pads for mine from a local factor. He is a couple of quid more than ECP but he is far more convenient (5 mins walk) than the 15 mile trip to the local one. Due to me being at work in the week, delivery from them would be a problem. I wouldn't rule them out for larger more obscure items though and have bought in the past from them. He is very friendly and known him for some time, where possible it's not unknown for him to let me take different size or fitting parts and measure up and bring back if not suitable.
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>> I've had 3 VAG 1.9TDi PDs and one 2.0TDi PD. All used oil between services.
>> The one we currently have still, the Golf 1.9TDi PD 100PS, uses the least.
Our 1.9 PD 130PS Golf usually needs one small top up between (10k) services. The level drops to the half way point between MIN and MAX on the dipstick somewhere around 6-7k after a service. 500ml or so tops it back up to MAX, and it's good until the next service. Now on 133,000 miles.
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Well, me and the A3 have parted company.
I posted over in technical that the wipers had slowed down and it turned out to be the wiper mechanism seizing. Ordinarily I would have just fixed it, but I also needed 4 new tyres so it was decision time over weather to spend and keep or not
Due to laziness I still hadn't got shot of Mrs B's Sharan although I had agreed a part ex price with a local dealer against a new car, but their complete apathy will lead to no sale for them.
So, one or both had to go so I listed the A3 back on ebay with a very honest description and a buy it now price slightly over what I paid. Net result was accepted an offer of £50 less than I paid for it from a nice bloke who cam and collected it next day.
Still leaves me with the Sharan which has never let us down, is cheap to run and a bit easier to park in NCP's than the Viano so think I will just hold on to it for the time being (although I'm sure that itchy feet and man maths may change that it a few months time)
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Audi A3 + S3 - New Arrival - PeterS
