My jazz still on the Pirelli snowcontrol 2 tyres, had a look at the wear, seems to me both of them probably be good for a year, if they need to be replaced what is the best tyre was looking at winter tyres, as I cant afford to keep two different tyres a summer one and winter one.
Was looking at the continental, Dunlop and Pirelli
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Just the thing to save us from yesterday's fit of existential angst. There you go, chaps - fill yer boots.
};---)
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Now this is of interest. If winter tyres are so good I have oft asked why not keep them on all year.
And here is a guy who has. I'd like to know how many miles he has got out of them compared to standard tyres. From then one could work out if, over the typical life of the car, its worth just running winter tyres or buying two sets (one summer, one winter)
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 08:07
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"Conventional wisdom" suggests that winter tyres are made of cheese and disintegrate at summer temperatures.
The reality is quite different.
Our FRV has been wearing Michelin Alpins (205/55x16) since October last year.
After 15,000 miles the fronts are 6mm and the rears ~6.5mm.
I reckon a usable life around 35-40k miles.
This is probably slightly better wear than the Michelin Energy Savers that were replaced by the Alpins (3mm on the fronts, 4mm on rears after 30k miles).
Summer handling is marginally less tight with the winter rubber in both wet and dry although nearing limits of grip, on a fast roundabout say, is still very progressive.
Obviously winter driving is far more secure on the Alpins.
From looking at various blogs/reports I haven't found any evidence that winter tyres wear prematurely when used through the summer, other than anecdotes from those who don't actually use the tyres.
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>> Our FRV has been wearing Michelin Alpins (205/55x16) since October last year.
>>
>> After 15,000 miles the fronts are 6mm and the rears ~6.5mm.
>>
>> I reckon a usable life around 35-40k miles.
>>
Ummm. At 6mm your winter tyres are quite close to being worn out - for winter use anyway. I guess they'll be replaced next October.
The real problem with using them all year round seems to me to be that you're wasting the outer part of the tyre which is the winter bit.
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>> At 6mm your winter tyres are quite close to being worn out - for winter use anyway
I think the manufacturers suggest at 3mm they're shot for their winter benefit, in Germany I believe you need 4mm for them to be regarded as winter tyres for the areas/times that need winter rubber.
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Although I'm in the all-season tyre fan club, there's no way I'd ever consider wearing winter boots all year long.
They wear quicker for one thing and, they could mean the difference between stopping/braking just in time,
or not.
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>> They wear quicker for one thing
Other than people trotting out the same old mantra, and remembering even summer tyres vary massivley in longevity, can you find hard evidence re. this?
I can't comment on old winter tyres from previous decades of course, but modern compounds appear to be no worse than most summer products.
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Plenty of evidence on the net from peoples own experience of using winter tyres, anyway, I'm orf to watch Foreman deck Norton in '74.
:}
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>> I'm orf to watch Foreman deck Norton in '74.
That's not the first time you've said that. Have you adopted it as your signature?
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Do remember that summer tyres, winter tyres and all-season tyres are made of three different rubber compounds. Winter tyre compound loses adhesion above 7-10ºC whereas All Season (as the name suggests) doesn't.
Also, the tread pattern on an all season tyre will be a compromise between that of summer (grip at higher speeds) and winter (grip on snow/ice) tyres.
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Winter tyre compound loses adhesion above 7-10ºC...
Remember that Lygo lives in Scotchland. His tyres would have to be made of Vacherin Mont d'Or to go soft there.
Anyway (contradicting my own point) This subject always elicits much blithering about air temperature, when what matters must be the temperature of the rubber, elevated by friction.
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I have taken to leaving my winters on all year, and I honestly can't tell the difference in the handling. And I am one to press on when clear and safe. I suppose if anything, if they did lose grip earlier, that might make the driving more 'fun'? Many folk complain that excessive grip from modern wide tyres has taken the fun out of driving.
The only argument I can see against leaving winters on all year is that winter tyres rely on deeper tread to bind on the snow, and if they are nearing the end of their life during the snowy phase of the year they will offer less of a benefit over standard tyres.
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>>>what matters must be the temperature of the rubber, elevated by friction
Or is what matters the surface temperature of the road??
As regulars might remember all year we run all season tyres on Mrs F's C3 so we at least have one nimble cold weather friendly car during the winter.
The all seasons are lasting really well and perform in all weathers... as their name indicates.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 10:30
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Got Vredestien Quatrac all seasons on the front of the C4 Picasso without problem - going to get a set on the back in a few weeks ready for this winter.
I have a pair of Marangoni Meteo HPs on the Xantia - they've done 2 winters on the front and 2 summers on the back (so 30k total), and still plenty of tread to go back on the front. Going to get another pair to go on for this winter as well. No problems in the summer. I'd rather have those on than a set of ditchfinders!
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Winter tyres in the summer lose their braking distances,soft rubber in warm weather.Horses for courses I suppose.It is all down to cost for most people and what they are willing to pay.
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You're doing well Dutchie, you'll be a moderator before too long I'll wager:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/parts-and-accessories/2010-11/winter-tyres/
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Min tread depth in Sweden is 3 mm for winter tyres. So last year I pulled out the studs from the winter tyres, and used them this summer as summer tyres. I've not done a huge mileage on them, but there's still plenty of tread left for simmer use.
I can't say I've noticed any difference - at least I haven't run into anyone, or spun off into the ditch.
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update looks to me I need 4 of the tyres replaced, the rear are the bridgestone Potenza, my tyre size are 185/55/r15, the front fitted are the Pirelli snowcontrol 2.
The bridgestones have some cracking around the edge of the tyres, the Pirelli are good for a few months.
I been to the local tyres, they quoted me the conti winter tyres are £120 each, the Pirelli winter tyres are £120.
He also said the continental also make matador, a budget brand, i said what was the difference between two brands and he replied it all in the quality of the rubber.
Also 4 of my brake pads need replacing, he recommended mintex brake pads, am checking online if I can get them cheaper.
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He's doing you no favours with those prices Sajid.
Problem with that size is that most winter tyres offered are T rated, which might be ok for your Jazz, but H rated are slightly rarer and in some cases slightly more expensive in that size.
A quick search on my two favourite tyre sites brings up this page at Mytyres.
tinyurl.com/nfye7bh
Nokians (very good made in Finland) in your size and H rated @ £66.50 apiece free delivery, but theres all makes for you to consider there, roughly £10 to £15 each to get them fitted and you're quids in.
If you're going to buy a set of winters nows the time before the cold weather arrives and prices rise.
Mintex make good friction materials, but in their stable is Textar and Pagid and others which are every bit as good, a search on ''carparts4less'' which is Eurocarparts online sister company should bear fruit.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 19:13
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I have Vredestein Quadracs on my car but when they wear out I might change to Uniroyal Rain Experts for the better steering (apparently not bad in the snow for a summer tyre) - the Vredesteins can feel quite woolly on bends, although they do have good grip.
One of the tyre websites did a test pitting winter tyres against all season. According to them, in most situations the winter tyres fared better overall.
www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/All-Season-Tyres-How-Do-They-Stack-Up.htm
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>> I have Vredestein Quadracs on my car but when they wear out I might change
>> to Uniroyal Rain Experts for the better steering (apparently not bad in the snow for
>> a summer tyre)
I'm a great Rain Expert Fan, got them on all four corners of the Lancer. No intention of moving away from them.
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I'd be considering all-season tyres as replacements, after my experience with Pirelli Scorpion STRs on the Outlander.
Vredestein Quatrac 3 are showing at £92.60 fitted on mytyres just now - they have done very well in tests of all-season tyres. If you want winter tyres, there is a good selection that seem very well priced in comparison, for now anyway - including the Nokians as mentioned by GB at £80.50 - so the mytyres fitting add-on looks like £14 a tyre.
The 82 load rating Pirelli Snowcontrol they list is only T rated unless you buy reinforced/XL which are dearer - check what your man is proposing if you go that route. I wouldn't use XL tyres on a Jazz - counter-intuitively, you have to put higher pressures in them to get them to the right shape, and it would be like riding a buckboard.
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>>
>> The 82 load rating Pirelli Snowcontrol they list is only T rated unless you buy
>> reinforced/XL which are dearer -
T is more than enough on a Jazz.
Speed rating isn't considered important by insurance companies in the UK anyway.
Load rating is though - you must use at least the correct or higher load index.
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>> T is more than enough on a Jazz.
>>
>> Speed rating isn't considered important by insurance companies in the UK anyway.
>>
>> Load rating is though - you must use at least the correct or higher load
>> index.
That's a bit debatable unless you have the facts. Makers actually homologate particular tyre specs - I know that because Mitsubishi ( not the dealer) told me that the H rated tyres I proposed to fit to the winter wheels were the homologated tyre in that rim size.
I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep myself, but I wouldn't be telling anybody else to do it.
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>> update looks to me I need 4 of the tyres replaced, the rear are the
>> bridgestone Potenza, my tyre size are 185/55/r15, the front fitted are the Pirelli snowcontrol 2.
>>
My wife's Jazz has run Michelin Alpin winter tyres year round for a couple of years and they've been fine. They're available in the above size online for under £80. Do you have a Costco card by any chance? You could order them through Costco.
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Moves me to muse why all standard fit tyres aren't "all-season".
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I wonder when we'll get winter brake pads?
There's a market there for some enterprising chap.
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>> I wonder when we'll get winter brake pads?
You mean extra low friction for enforced gentle braking? Better hope the one in front has them too.
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I don't have a Costco card, sorry, been looking at the Dunlop winter response 2 at mytyres, also the conti they have different load value the jazz says 82t on the Potenza, still I just keep looking at other options like seeing the local tyre shop, thanks for the replies guys
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winter brakes that a new one, what sort of manufacturer do Honda do their brake pads ?
Last edited by: sajid on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 22:37
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Like Lygonos & Bill Payer I leave my Michelin Alpins on all year round. 225/40/18s on the 330. Wear seems more than acceptable. Quiet. Z rated for insurance purposes a2 the car is restricted to 155.
Strictly speaking, and I stand to be corrected, they are a 'cold weather tyre' but have performed fantastically well in last winters snow. On a few occasions they kept me going uphill when dozens, if not hundreds, of other cars were simply stuck. Saved me overnight accommodation more than once.
In a perfect world I would have dedicated winter tyres, on narrower profile wheels, but they will not fit over the brake calipers on the 330. And in our recent summer they gripped ok. Although I have no wish to approach the adhesion limits in Herman, thank you very much.
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>> Like Lygonos & Bill Payer I leave my Michelin Alpins on all year round. 225/40/18s
>> on the 330. Wear seems more than acceptable. Quiet. Z rated for insurance purposes a2
>> the car is restricted to 155.
>> Strictly speaking, and I stand to be corrected, they are a 'cold weather tyre' but
>> have performed fantastically well in last winters snow.
They're a proper winter tyre with the mountain symbol on them. But they're more biased to less severe use than some winter tyres.
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'Moves me to muse why all standard fit tyres aren't "all-season". '
Couldn't agree more. This year I left the all-season Kleber Quadraxer 205/55/16s on my Octavia vRS (originally bought because the OEM Continental 225/40/18s are useless in snow) and they have been brilliant.
- They have done about 20,000 of my car's 30,000 miles and still have 6mm tread on them.
- In the case of an irreparable puncture (as so many are nowadays) a new one is £80 instead
of £180.
- They are excellent in snow.
- Ride is better and the effect on handling is negligible (just slightly softer).
Sadly they won't fit on the forthcoming new vRS: I'm going to look and see if a deal can be done on putting 225/45/17s with Kleber tyres on the new one instead of 225/40/18.
Last edited by: Avant on Fri 20 Sep 13 at 22:44
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Avant...is your vRS a petrol estate? A friend has recently bought a two year old one and I am mightlily impressed. So much so that I could consider a 4yo one instead of a 6yo 330 touring. Not the same build quality, but a fun load lugger.
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Just having a butchers at winter boots for my Subaru in case the Runway Enduro tyres don't cut the mustard.
Came up with these @ 85 knicker per corner (+ fitting) the reviews are v/good:
www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Avon/Ice-Touring-ST.htm
Not that it ever snows in Cornwall.
:}
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Am I the only Car4player who's never felt the need to fit winter tyres?
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no.
I have had no need for winter tyres for 40 years/800k miles and I don't see a need for the next 40years either.
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I'm possibly not as black or white in my opinions on this but likewise I've never had them and never felt desperately in need either. Most situations can be dealt by driving with appropriate care to the prevailing conditions.
However, I can see that like abs or traction control they must help a bit when the going gets tough or you misjudge something but I can live with relying on good old fashioned taking it steady and driving to the circumstances when conditions worsen.
What others do is of course their choice. Wouldn't criticise or denigrate them for it. If it works for them then fine by me.
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I wouldn't need winter tyres either - if I lived where you live.
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>> I wouldn't need winter tyres either - if I lived where you live.
>>
Jealousy will get you nowhere!
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>> I have had no need for winter tyres for 40 years/800k miles
Me too - and in the kneehills of the Pennines. I only put the all-seasons on the Outlander to preserve the stupid 18" alloys and wear out tyres that cost half as much.
But the difference between that, in 2WD, and the boss's Civic on nearly new Michelin standard jobs is unbelievable. When I drove hers in the last lot of snow I grounded it for the duration.
I'll put the Civic on all-seasons if it evers wears another set of tyres out.
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>> Am I the only Car4player who's never felt the need to fit winter tyres?
>
Nor me. But like Zero I'm in a part of England that rarely gets serious winter weather. Lived here for 24 yrs and until 2010 we only had perhaps three show stopping falls. Since then there's been what may be a reversion to mean and we've had a couple every winter. However, ease of working at home in era of fast internet etc probably means that the goalposts for show stopping have moved a bit.
Main access through village is invariably cleared within a few hours and it's maybe half a mile over slush or compacted snow to get there. Even if I couldn't get out for 48hrs we'd not starve.
If however I was further north like legacy or Lygo then I might need to reconsider.
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This is the lane where our cottage is, it's either down hill or the even steeper (and some!) uphill section.
The lane never gets gritted so if you want to get into town then decent all-season/winter tyres are a must IMO.
www.flickr.com/photos/43576259@N04/8405226970/lightbox/
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It's partly a matter of where you live (nice picture, Dog - is that the kennel on the right?!), and also partly what tyres your car is supplied with. I've had FWD cars since 1971 and the Octavia vRSs are the first to have had trouble in the snow. If I'd had an ordinary Octavia without the 225/40/18 tyres I don't think I'd have had the need for winter tyres at all.
Yes, Legacylad, my current Octavia is my second vRS estate, and a third is on order. The First was a diesel manual, this one a petrol DSG as my annual mileage is about 12,000 rather than 20,000 as before. The DSG works very well except that sometimes one feels that it's holding the car back a little from the acceleration that the engine is capable of. So the next one will be a manual - and should do me until I get too old and go back to an automatic.
I was very tempted by a Golf GTI, but the extra room of the Octavia is still useful, and the new one has exactly the same engine as the Mark VII GTI.
When we retire next year and eventually move house, something smaller should do. It'll be interesting to see how the Audi A3 e-tron shapes up: will it take hybrids further then the Prius in drivability and performance?
Last edited by: Avant on Sat 21 Sep 13 at 10:42
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I should have added, L'lad - I had a good test drive in a 330d Touring, to see if you got a lot more for a lot more money. You get something more, for sure - but the real 'test' of a test drive is what it's like getting back into your own car. And in this case the Octavia wasn't disgraced. I think you'd only notice a big difference if you do a lot of driving on twisty B-roads.
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I mentioned before that my RWD automatic was remarkably good in snow the last two winters on its standard wide, low profile tyres.
There was one occasion when I drove it through hill country in very poor conditions ( deep falling snow on top of ice ) one way and made the return journey in the same conditions in my wife's FWD Qashqai. Remarkably enough, I found it easier in the Merc. The FWD feeling of the front end washing away in low grip conditions gives me the willies ( you end up heading towards whatever it was you were intending turning away from ) while a bit of RWD tail wag isn't a worry and is easily corrected. ( and can be quite good fun ! )
Having said that, I had it new in October 2011 so the tread depth that winter was more or less at its maximum and by sheer coincidence it got new tyres last October at about 35k miles so again it had decent tread depth that winter. It's just about in need of some new back ones again now so that will have the effect of ensuring that the tyres, albeit standard ones, will again have plenty of tread depth through this winter. I think that probably helps the car to cope.
As I stressed above, I still don't doubt that winter rubber would make it even better able to cope but frankly so far anyway, I've never felt it was a necessity.
We used to live 1200 feet above sea level in the Scottish Borders and at the bottom of a valley so every journey required an uphill climb. It could and did snow regularly any time from November to April but I really can't remember anyone using winter tyres. Nor indeed did many have 4x4 cars. The locals didn't agonise about these things much and just sort of got on with it.
I guess it was a combination of being used to that sort of weather and not missing what you've never had.
Not, once again, to say it's all stuff and nonsense mind, I'm sure they do help. I just think there's a subtle difference between the definition "need" and "useful" is all really.
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>> We used to live 1200 feet above sea level in the Scottish Borders and at
>> the bottom of a valley so every journey required an uphill climb. It could and
>> did snow regularly any time from November to April but I really can't remember anyone
>> using winter tyres. Nor indeed did many have 4x4 cars. The locals didn't agonise about
>> these things much and just sort of got on with it.
How many years ago was that Runfer? Most people would have had narrower higher profile tyres more able to cope with snow. With the ultra low profile wide tyres on many models today you have much less chance of getting traction, especially if you're someone who just wants to get from A to B, and doesn't have the understanding of how to drive on snow. I think modern drivers have less understanding because they think that the car is going to do it for them.
I turn the traction control off when on snow - I find it helps.
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>>is that the kennel on the right?!)
Neighb keeps her logs in there, ideal for conversion to a holiday let I would have thought ;)
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>> www.flickr.com/photos/43576259@N04/8405226970/lightbox/
>>
Who's the lady standing in the aisle of the bus, displaying her backside in the direction of the camera?
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I really don't know, which is most unusual for me, as I never forget a face.
Is it a woman though? - it could be man who's had to much German beer in his life.
:+)
Last edited by: Dog on Sat 21 Sep 13 at 13:06
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>>Nice pictures of the dogs, Dog.
Thanks Duncan, he's still going strong at 13 years old, he hasn't been near nor by a vets for 5 years,
and he's (obviously) never had to visit a dentist once in 13 years, which probably explains why he's got more of his own teeth left than I have!
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>> Am I the only Car4player who's never felt the need to fit winter tyres?
>>
I only fit them because we drive to the Alps and Germany at least twice each winter. If I had front drive and never drove abroad, I probably wouldn't bother.
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>> Am I the only Car4player who's never felt the need to fit winter tyres?
No. I haven't felt inclined to either. I just alter my driving style to suit the conditions of the environment.
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Humph / Runfer - now we know why you changed your nom de plume, or nom de clavier perhaps.
Get a good runfer and even a RWD German taxi will get up d'hills.
Seriously, though, I'll happily agree that a lot of it is down to good driving and experience, together with reasonably sensible tyres that don't look like rubber bands.
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Heh heh ! Actually, on the contrary, I found the best trick was to use transmission creep from rest to get moving ( maybe a wee bit of right foot if facing uphill ) and once in motion it was fine. I don't pretend to understand these things but the traction control must help I guess. It doesn't let you spin the wheels over much. Anyway, it wasn't the impossible horror I'd been led to believe. Just needed a bit of due care.
In my experience, and I'll spare you those statistics, but lets just say this'll not be the first winter I've driven in, the real problems come when the underside of the vehicle comes into contact with deep snow. Then it gets tricky. My old Xantia had a party piece for those occasions with its ability to raise its suspension. You're not supposed to drive it like that but for a few yards to unstick it from deep snow it was sometimes a bit handy.
Possibly the scariest car I've had to drive in snow was a Land Rover Defender. Naturally traction from rest was pretty good but on the slippy stuff it's handling and braking limitations were not for the feint hearted !
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I'll continue to fit winter tyres in the season, or at the very least those like Uniroyal Experts with very good wet and at least acceptable cold weather grip if suitable for my car and my road situation.
Admittedly i don't have the driving skills of some, getting out of where we live which is never gritted (except by the single grit bin if anything in it if one of us does the business the night before for the whole 400 yard hill) when 5" of snow have fallen with a 2WD car.
I usually start work as early as 4am, seeing as i'm the only 2WD car that can get out some mornings (or all day sometimes) i'd really like to know how the better drivers here would do the job better, how do you get up a 400 yd snowed hill you can't get a run up for?
Not getting out is not an option, i've never missed a days work for any reason (apart from hols/bereavement leave) in my working life and i don't intend to start now.
The usual line trotted out is other road users blocking your way, thats fairly simple i often take to the back lanes when the main routes get clogged at the usual hills, thats just one advantage that winter tyres will allow you.
What i don't quite understand is the thinly veiled ridicule in some posts over time to equipping the vehicle to cope with severe weather. especially as it costs almost nothing to do if you keep the vehicle for several years, you can only wear one set of tyres out at a time.
Each to their own, i don't need winter tyres as such but prefer the advantages of having them and am prepared to stump up the money in the first place.
Interestingly where i work the leased company cars are to be fitted with winter tyres during the season, this is leasing company not our company suggestion...whether its a negotiable option if someone doesn't them for some reason i couldn't say.
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>> Not getting out is not an option, i've never missed a days work for any
>> reason (apart from hols/bereavement leave) in my working life and i don't intend to start
>> now.
So before winter tyres became readily available and fashionable, how di you cope. You must have done because as you say you have never missed a days work.
Like me, you have never really needed them, if you are honest.
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>> So before winter tyres became readily available and fashionable, how di you cope.
4WD.
Luckily whenever the snow has been really bad i owned 4WD vehicles, always sensibly shod.
In previous years i tended to own Volvos and the like, proper ones driven at the correct end with a turning circle worth mentioning, shod on oh so sensible tyres and when bad weather came some weight in the boot would do the trick.
One memorable day in my 245 i was doing my back lane tricks when i came upon a mini bus stranded unable to cross high ground through the heavily drifting snow.
The passengers, workers at a local village shoe factory (now expensive flats), all gratefully piled into my Volvo, several in the car and more in the estate boot, we simply plowed through those drifts.
Very seldom owned FWD cars and dislike them generally, luckily when i have owned them the snows were light and of little trouble, plus where i lived before wasn't hilly.
No you are quite right i don't need them, but my driving isn't up to some of the standards here so i use them to give me an advantage...and i will not be failing to get to work either.
Luckily if its really bad i can use SWMusts Outlander which whilst not shod in winter tyres displays astonishing snow ability.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 22 Sep 13 at 11:07
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I've probably mentioned this every year for several years on here and elsewhere but I really do think it's a good winter driving tip.
My dad, when he was teaching me to drive in his rwd Volvo in a Scottish winter used to say that I should mentally picture a glass of wine balanced on the bonnet of the car. Under no circumstances was I to let the imaginary glass topple. Now drive as fast as you like...
Try it, believe me it works ! I more or less apply that rule no matter what the weather. Smooooth is cool dudes ! Doesn't have to mean slow.
Oh and for the record, I for one am not claiming any exceptional driving skills ! Just noting for the wider interest of readers that a RWD auto isn't quite the problem some would suggest if treated with some respect to its limitations. Damn good fun actually in some circs.
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"So before winter tyres became readily available and fashionable, how di you cope. "
You know that two minutes at the end of the news, the comical feature? They do that in Poland too. They do a regular hysterical spot on the Brits who can't drive out of a flat car park on half cm of snow, up a gentle incline slope, wheels spinning furiously but the car's going backwards and of course - the 'hundreds of people sleeping in their cars on the motorway when the snow is a full 6 cm thick' feature.
Seems to be a lot of "skilled blokes" on this forum who've never driven on winter tyres and have no idea what the difference is.
Last year I watched a guy who was turning (cul-de-sac) round at a pre-school on an extremely un-made road using summer tyres. It was thick snow and eventually, he got beached and we couldn't move it even with 4 or 5 of us. Someone else came and he used his car to pull out the stuck car. Why didn't he fit winter tyres? Because it was Landrover Discovery and he thought he wouldn't need it. What was the rescue car? A 4x4 Lexus on winters. My wife's sister lives next to the pre-school and I drive down there several times a week, and do a 3-point turn, in thick snow on winters. Would one of you drive there on summers, stop, 3-point-turn around and drive off using nothing but your skill and experience? There'll be a lot of yellow snow around me, cos I'll be peeing myself laughing.
Skill? Do me a lemon.
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You've been living Poland for too long. No idea what good driving is.
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Using Pirelli fourseasons all 4 the same there not a winter tyre as such but a all season tyre, there coming up to 11k on the front and there coming off due to tracking problem worn on the shoulder.
Replacement will be all season tyres again will be looking at Vredestein or Michelin not too keen on the Pirelli had them on for two years there not too good in the hot weather too much role for me.
All season for me though i live on 7 hills around and need the car for work and school runs it's in daily use walking is not a option when i need it and can climb them hills when other cars are stuck and spinning i go sailing past smirking.!! :-)
I buy them mail order plenty of online suppliers.
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There is no good driving in Poland. None at all. Nothing. Zip. No skill, no road craft in Poland. Fudge-all. My motto in Poland is "4 wheels = half IQ". Even using a trolley in a supermarket, they'll hit something.
But every year they switch their winter tyres and carry on as normal, driving like idiots, racing from the lights, overtaking through villages. All because they use the winters. Try it on summers here and they'll flash you and throw abuse at you as you dither around trying to pull away from junctions. It's happened to me. Use winters and you'll drive like normal. Or abnormal in my case - the only bloke who can drive, park, reverse into a bay, negotiate a roundabout etc. etc. etc...
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Fact is a lot of drivers are either clueless in 2cm of snow, or haven't the wit to leave the car at home when conditions are clearly unsuitable for their equipment.
I see nothing daft in getting the tyres for the job, having a margin of grip to drive round stuck and abandoned vehicles, and use uncleared hilly routes to avoid blockages, as gb said.
There's also the small matter of the roads round here that often have a pronounced crown, adverse cambers, and drainage ditches big enough to up end a car. I see one or more in them most years.
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>> I see nothing daft in getting the tyres for the job, having a margin of
>> grip to drive round stuck and abandoned vehicles, and use uncleared hilly routes to avoid
>> blockages, as gb said.
>>
Just saying that in my case I have never needed them in 40 years. Given those circumstances surely you can appreciate based on past experience it would be daft and expensive to faff around with two sets of tyres.
>> There's also the small matter of the roads round here that often have a pronounced
>> crown, adverse cambers, and drainage ditches big enough to up end a car. I see
>> one or more in them most years.
Surely thats nothing to do with winter tyres. Thats a 4 seasons problem.
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Ok in simple terms here's where I am...
Do I believe winter tyres assist grip/safety in winter? - Yes
Do I believe winter tyres could be useful in Britain? - Yes
Do I believe they are necessary in Britain? - Mostly no. ( some rural exceptions apply )
Do I think I'm an unusually skilled driver? - No
Do I believe that those who fit winter tyres must by default be rubbish drivers? - No
Do I believe its impossible to drive a RWD car on snow on summer tyres? - No
Do I believe it would be easier to drive any car fitted with winter tyres on snow? - Yes
Do I think they are a good idea in a country which regularly gets severe winters? - Yes
Am I royally fed up with people getting petulant and childish on internet forums when someone has the audacity to express a counterpoint? - Yes
Do I have any objection to anyone else fitting winter tyres? - No
Will I fit winter tyres this year? - No
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>> Am I royally fed up with people getting petulant and childish on internet forums when
>> someone has the audacity to express a counterpoint? - Yes
Have I seen anyone get petulant in this thread - No
Is someone flying off their high horse for no good reason? - Yes.
Does that make them petulant? - I guess it does.
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I don't see what the problem is in getting the right equipment to do the job properly. Just because it didn't use to happen in the past, doesn't mean it isn't more sensible now.
We never used to use car seats for kids, for example, but thankfully do nowadays.
I might well go down the 'all season' route next time and try to have my cake and eat it.
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>> I might well go down the 'all season' route next time and try to have
>> my cake and eat it.
Agreed, if i hadn't already gone the full winter and second set of alloys i too would have gone all season by now.
Daughter has been through 2 full sets of Vredestein all seasons, Quatrac 2 on her little 106 (poor little car thrashed to death) and a set of Quatrac 3 on her previous Civic.
In both cases the cars were very sure footed despite her often idiotic driving and the tyres lasted very well.
One good point though about using a second set of wheels is the expensive OE set don't get their 4 month salt bath, so those very nice looking but useless (and silly prices to refurb) diamond cut and laquered jobbies as fitted to MB's and now many others incl Fords won't look 10 years old after the second winter season.
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>> I don't see what the problem is in getting the right equipment to do the
>> job properly. Just because it didn't use to happen in the past, doesn't mean it
>> isn't more sensible now.
>>
>> We never used to use car seats for kids, for example, but thankfully do nowadays.
>>
Exactly.
Air bags, ABS and ESP - Pah!
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Less road deaths now than ever before.
Rare now that kids get to find out how hard windscreens are with their heads, and since seatbelts were introduced 30mph head-on crashes don't mean you bisect your internal organs with the steering wheel.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 22 Sep 13 at 21:07
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>> I don't see what the problem is in getting the right equipment to do the
>> job properly. Just because it didn't use to happen in the past, doesn't mean it
>> isn't more sensible now.
>>
>> We never used to use car seats for kids, for example, but thankfully do nowadays.
Thats a very poor analogy. The car seat stays in the car all year, probably 5 in fact. and you dont have to store 4 great dirty car seats in your garage* I can see the sense and benefit in all season tyres, ones that stay on the car all the time, and as our main seasonal weather is rain, Winter, Spring, Summer and Autumn, that is why I went for rain tyres.
That to me is the right equipment.
*And that is a primary reason why its very impractical for a very large percentage of british motorists, who simply don't have the facilities to store them.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 22 Sep 13 at 21:26
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Seen these Zero?
tinyurl.com/uniroyal-all-season-expert
Must say I've never noticed them before, but maybe a fine choice for the McZeros of the world.
ps. The Michelin Alpins have performed fine as year round rubber IMO.
pps. the Michelin Energy Saver before them were excellent wet and dry but a bit pants in snow (rated B for rolling resistance and A for wet grip on the new label ratings)
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 22 Sep 13 at 21:40
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>> Seen these Zero?
>>
>> tinyurl.com/uniroyal-all-season-expert
>>
>> Must say I've never noticed them before, but maybe a fine choice for the McZeros
>> of the world.
Edit
Actually, they look interesting.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 22 Sep 13 at 21:47
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Rated F for rolling resistance :(
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The rain experts are "B" for rain, and the all-seasons are "C" for rain.
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Those all season Uniroyals look like full winters to me, which would explain the C rating for wet grip.
Looks a handy tyre though.
If we do keep the Outy long enough to change the present Michelins (doubtful) then a set of Rain Experts will be going on, it proved quite remarkable in last years snow on 4/5mm Michelin Latitudes, so the Uniroyals should be plenty good enough unless the white stuff came up to the doors.
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I been thinking of fitting the back with the all season tyres, the front with winters on, the reason is that my jazz is a fwd, so therefore putting the best tyres for the coming cold season would be winters at the front.
The back are the Potenzas, I want to balance it with the best rolling resistance, and dry grip was thinking of fitting two summers or two all seasons tyres.
For the winter tyres I was looking at continental winter ts790 there the t830 available as well, but got a different load rating 86.
The current tyres size are 185,55,r15 82t, there is the continental with the 86h at the end, no idea what that means
I been looking at the autoexpress site where they tested the winter tyres, the continenetal were ahead.
The local tyre guys are quoting roughly £120 per tyre, looking at the tyres online they are going for roughly £80 to £90.
Think it be cheaper to buy the tyres online and arrange fitting by local diy mobile fitter, that way I still a choose the tyres I want and b still save money compared to the prices I been getting
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I'm not going to trot out the stuff about best tyres on the back, but if you are buying four anyway why not just get four all-season ones? Or at least four alike?
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Sajid, i know some people do this but its really inadvisable to mix winter and summer tyres on your car, the handling and grip characteristics can change dramatically as the weather and more importantly tempertures drop.
You could find yourself in the uneviable position of finding ice on a corner, and your front winter tyres gripping well and the rears doing a good impression of unbraked casters.
Winters on front and all season on the back? well i might consider that but only if i knew the product and its likely performance, at the very least the all seasons should be snowflake/mountain marked meaning they are winter tyre rated anyway.
Ideally you should all four tyres of the same type, either summer, all season or winter.
Note some tyres listed in online suppliers are called all season, but that might be for the US market where all season isn't the same as whats accepeted here.
All season to be worthy of the name should have the snowflake/mountion symbol embossed on the sidewall, the term or sidewall stamp M&S confusingly isn't relevant in this context, that only applies to the tread design not the temp range.
There thats clear as mud innit...:-))
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 22 Sep 13 at 23:57
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thanks for the advice Gb, will think of fitting the allseason one all 4 of them or just the winter at the front and the all season one, I want to balance both performance grip and fuel economy, also I don't want to change the tyres, but keep them all long.
The all seasons one which are available are the quartrac 3 by vredistein, the Dunlop 4seasons/
the winters are the contis either the 790 or 830 winter tyres goodyear ultra grip 8 or the Dunlop winter response 2.
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>> the term or sidewall stamp M&S confusingly isn't relevant in this context, that only applies to the tread design not the temp range.
Interesting, I didn't know that.
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>> All season to be worthy of the name should have the snowflake/mountion symbol embossed on
>> the sidewall, the term or sidewall stamp M&S confusingly isn't relevant in this context, that
>> only applies to the tread design not the temp range.
>>
>> There thats clear as mud innit...:-))
>>
I think it's all stupidly confusing. Really, if it's got a mountain symbol on it then it's a "proper" winter tyre. M+S is still marked on tyres because, where Winter tyres are required by law, it's the recognised indication that the tyres legally qualify as Winter's.
The All Season's we get here are really full winter tyres with a bias towards year round use. Having said that, I've just got some Kumho KH21's All Season tyres and they have a much more aggressive, blocky looking tread pattern than the Winter Michelin Alpin's on my wife's car.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Mon 23 Sep 13 at 10:09
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I'm more confused than ever Mr Payer, my tyres have the M+S mark but no mountain or snowflake symbol.
Are they spring, summer, autumn, or winter tyres, or all of those.
:}
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And some big brand makers don't even seem to label their tyres as 'all season', it's either regular or Winter and nothing in the middle?
I've always preferred Continental tyres and looking at their site they only sell Summer/Winter rubber so is there a definition of 'all season' or are they Summer tyres with a more aggressive tread pattern?
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>> I've always preferred Continental tyres
aka
Uniroyal, Semperit, Barum, Viking, Mabor, (and quite possibly some more) who are all under the same umbrella.
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gb is right. the Mud & Snow (M+S) marking doesn't mean much except, IIRC, that the tread is at least 25% void and something to do with the tread pattern. Not all are good (or any good) in snow.
I'd expect all season tyres, at least from a proper brand, to have some reasonable snow capability whether or not they have the snowflake mark. The Pirelli Scorpion STR don't, only M+S, and they are quite good in snow (in my experience, and according to at least one test I have seen).
They do however have lots of 'sipes' the small slots in the tread, which seems common to winter and snowflake marked tyres - look at the Nokians for example.
So I'd be looking at the tests for all season tyres, which is why I mentioned the Quatrac 3 -
www.autoexpress.co.uk/tyre-guides/45315/vredestein-quatrac-3
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P.S.
I really wouldn't be mixing fundamentally different types of tyres front and rear, even though you have done it previously :)
It just increases the probability of unpredictable handling - usually it doesn't matter much because people generally don't get near the limits, but it could change a car that usually goes straight on when grip is lost (the usual thing even in RWD cars unless lead boots are used) to one that swaps ends instead.
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The Pirelli Scorpion STR don't,
>> only M+S, and they are quite good in snow (in my experience, and according to
>> at least one test I have seen).
Just shows how tyres whilst suiting one vehicle don't suit another (or possibly the driver in my case didn't like them..;)
The Hilux came with those fitted, within three months i removed and sold them on, the vehicle felt 'undertyred' if that makes any sense, poor handling and grip and felt unstable, but i didn't try them in winter.
Though in their favour Invincible spec sizes were smaller than the usual rest of the world, quite why i don't know, but without a doubt replacing them with another make and type of tyre in the correct larger size made a huge improvement to the vehicle.
That dodgy Elk test failure of Hilux (see Youtube) around that time caused a knee jerk recall reaction from Toyota and replacement of those tyres and wheels, with equivent to the larger size but in 15".
I didn't accept the recall as i had already cured the problem.
Purely out of interest the truck came new on 255/65 x 16, where high spec Hiluxs were almost universally fitted with 265/70 x 16 (where on 16" wheels) which was the size i (and many other UK Hilux owners) retro-fitted.
Lower spec UK models that came on 15" wheels the tyre sizes were equivalent to the larger tyre anyway, quite how that mis-size happened i don't know, it shouldn't have.
edit..ironically we considered buying the dealers demo, but one of the salesmen lost it on a roundabout and wrote it off...STRs..:-))
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 23 Sep 13 at 13:49
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>> The Pirelli Scorpion STR don't,
>> >> only M+S, and they are quite good in snow (in my experience, and according
>> to
>> >> at least one test I have seen).
>>
>> Just shows how tyres whilst suiting one vehicle don't suit another (or possibly the driver
>> in my case didn't like them..;)
Depends where you start from too perhaps...the 2007 on Outlander/CCrosser, unlikely as it sounds, is a pretty decent handling car, and on the 225/55R18 Continental summer tyres as supplied corners very flat and 'on rails'; noticeably less so, it's true, on the 215/70R16 STRs but it's not vicious, rides better, and it's good in the wet and in snow.
But that's a size change also - in my case from lower profile to high, which I presumed possibly wrongly was the main cause of the different feel.
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>> Depends where you start from too perhaps...the 2007 on Outlander/CCrosser, unlikely as it sounds, is
>> a pretty decent handling car,
I quite believe that, the mk 1 Outy sticks like the poverbial and rides on caster like 215/60 x 16, but the ride is hard as the springs are heavy duty for the cars weight, can't have it all ways if it was softly sprung it would roll.
To be fair the STR is probably meant for more passenger biased use and maybe a more sophisticated design, the cart sprung rear end (hardly sophisticated) Hilux did benefit from tyres more appropriate to its more basic design.
Hilux performed its best when on Vredestein Wintracs, SWM wanted to run them all year round it wouldn't put a foot wrong whatever the weather on those, best tyre i've ever driven on in the cold and wet or snow by miles.
PS, far more sensible and affordable size you've switched to MT.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 23 Sep 13 at 14:24
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While I was on the Conti site I did read this bit of info if it helps.
M+S symbol
“Snow tyre” means a tyre whose tread pattern, tread compound or structure are primarily designed to achieve in snow conditions a performance better than that of a normal tyre with regard to its ability to initiate or maintain vehicle motion.
"Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol
The marking "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" identifies winter tires according to the tire industry standard which is based on an American Snow tire definition. These tires provide high performance with regards to safety and control on snow, on icy road and in general at deep temperatures.
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98 posts on a winter tyre thread and its still only September. Going to be a long hard winter:-)
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We're just trying to get the number of motoring posts up :)
For the SEO you know...
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>> 98 posts on a winter tyre thread and its still only September.
Post early for Christmas! tinyurl.com/q7ok75v
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>>The rain experts are "B" for rain, and the all-seasons are "C" for rain.
As with all standardised tests they only tell you about test performance.
I would presume the Rain Experts will be better in warm/wet, and All Seasons in cold/wet, but this could even vary between sizes, let alone brands.
When it comes to tyres there is still a lot of information to be gleaned from anecdote and personal recommendation, as well as good old fashioned trial and error.
I was amazed how well the Michelin Energy Savers performed in the wet, especially after how rubbish the Energy E3A before them were on my old Civic.
Similarly the Latitude Tour (non-snowflake M&S) were very much better in wet, dry and snow than the BF Goodrich before them on our old CRV.
Just mulling over what to replace the 3 different brands on the Forester (Pirelli P6s on the front, and Geolander G035 and a "HiFly" on the back.. all around 4-5mm left but I have a fetish for decent tyres) with...
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>> Just mulling over what to replace the 3 different brands on the Forester (Pirelli P6s
>> on the front, and Geolander G035 and a "HiFly" on the back.. all around 4-5mm
>> left but I have a fetish for decent tyres) with...
As I said I have Vreds on mine, and it's the only all season I have experience of. They are comfortable and have good grip, but can feel a little undirect when cornering. The same happened with my old Avensis, so I can only put it down to the tyres.
I've driven on Rain Experts before and like Zero I think they are a very nice all round tyre.
Continentals are good, but expensive and I found that they wore out quickly, quite a soft tyre.
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Michelins are good, and if you have Costco membership, not too expensive.
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>> Michelins are good, and if you have Costco membership, not too expensive.
>>
Costco used to be cheap for Michelin but they're not now, and even in the twice a year tyre sale they've cut right back on the discounts. Might be something going on between them and Michelin as they're starting to sell Continental tyres too.
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>> They are comfortable and have good grip, but can feel a little undirect when cornering.
Forester factory set up leads to understeering, corrected slightly on 2.5 Turbo models.
No matter what tyres you put on the car it will still tend to understeer - oversteer usually only appears with brutal cornering and hard acceleration, with no fear on the loud pedal.
Generally speaking, to dial out the understeer you need to tighten up the rear suspension: a simple and not terribly expensive approach is puting on an uprated rear anti-roll bar, such as a 20mm Whiteline replacement (standard is around 15mm, but more likely to be 13-14mm at the bushes after 7 or 8 years...)
As usual tyre voodoo comes into play but tyres alone don't change the 'nose ploughing straight on through wet mini-roundabout' tendencies.
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>> As usual tyre voodoo comes into play but tyres alone don't change the 'nose ploughing
>> straight on through wet mini-roundabout' tendencies.
I probably didn't explain myself too well. I know about the understeer, and don't tend to drive hard anyway, but as you turn, the all seasons tend to get noisier and squirm, presumably because as the more open tread bites into the road surface it makes more noise. It's not really a problem.
Last edited by: corax on Mon 23 Sep 13 at 20:16
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>> Just mulling over what to replace the 3 different brands on the Forester (Pirelli P6s
>> on the front, and Geolander G035 and a "HiFly" on the back.. all around 4-5mm
>> left but I have a fetish for decent tyres) with...
I tend to start looking long before i need them, do a shortlist of possibilities, then every 3 or 4 days simply run my size through me favourite sites (mytyres, Camskill, Tyremen, Oponeo in no partcular order) and usually a bargain pops up somewhere.
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Just ordered 2x all season tyres 215 55 16 Continental £75.00 each from mytyres.
For the winter period that will soon be with us, if these are good 2x more will be ordered. Now is the time to buy before the prices go up when the white stuff arrives. :-)
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Hypothetically speaking of course, if one had, lets say, a RWD automatic which might possibly benefit from winter tyres, and ( not that one would be remotely excercised by this of course ) but imagine for a moment one were ever so slightly curious enough to investigate such matters. Would such a person be best sourcing the winter, possibly steel, wheels from the or a main dealer of said RWD auto or instead sourcing them elsewhere? If the latter ( merely out of idle curiousity you understand ) where would one begin to find a reasonable deal on said wheels ( if one were even slightly interested in knowing that... )
In theory.
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In theory.
One might well have a poke nose on www.alloywheels.com/Alloy-Wheels-Basildon-Essex (others are available) and find out suitable sizing of ones present car, and alternative more sensible sizes as would maybe be found in winter tyres say.
For example from that website a certain W212 van with windows might be fitted with 245/40 x 18 tyres, its possible theoretically that a 225/55 x 16 tyre and wheel might fit.
Again just theorising, the wheel that those tyres fit might just happen to be a 5x112 et35 which translates ..apparently.. as 5 stud with a PCD of 112 and an offset of 35mm, all MB wheels have the same spigot unless you buy a lorry, van without windows, or one or of those horrid FWD things that shouldn't be fitted with the MB emblem at all...worse than putting the union flag on a Tata and calling it a Rover.
Then in theory one could peruse a certain online auction site for a set of used alloy wheels and nuts suitable for ones car.
One might possibly find if one investigated that W211 wheels would be the same fittings, and one would expect to find a set or two lurking about there.
All surmising anyone would be remotely interested in such a thing.
If steels were the wheel of choice, though i reckon a LEC deserves alloys, then one could get a ball park figure for tyre and wheel package from Mytyres.
:-)
Indeed from that link it appears a full set of decent looking brand new Wolfrace alloys in suitable 16" size can be bought for less than £200, thats near enough steel wheel money and should be an easy resale, especially worth considering as now a certain Primark salesman..;) has got a taste for LEC's and is likely to have another?
Obviously tyres on top, but lots of choice available.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 23 Sep 13 at 19:35
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One should be careful when searching for used wheels on a certain site, W210 wheels whilst having the same dimensions/fittings as W211 and W212 wheels did have smaller thread wheelnuts ISTR so it would require careful checking that suitable wheelnuts were available...maybe best to ensure the wheels and nuts came from a W211 (from a W212 is maybe hoping for too much luck) to be safe.
Obviously this needs checking with an hexpert, but i am aware of larger wheelbolts going on 211/212.
Do our LEC owners have large nuts?
Beg pardon, misread the linked price, Wolfrace suitable for LEC would cost £300ish not £200.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 23 Sep 13 at 19:44
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ebay number 261289726681 might be worth a peruse for an idea of what one could do if one wnated to.
Indeed if the rear tyres on ones car needed replacement anyway, then one might be interested in putting a couple of good snowflake stamped all seasons on if one were so inclined, and if a success as they no doubt would be the two more could join them in due course.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 23 Sep 13 at 19:55
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Thanks GB, that would indeed seem a sensible place to start for someone who was ever going to consider such matters. Even completely hypothetically of course. Not that...well, anyone sensible would waste much time on so remote a possibility of being even slightly taken with such low priority subject matter...Even if such a person had only recently made note of the fact that the rear tyres on the theoretical vehicle might be in relatively imminient need of change anyway so some cost in the near future would be anticipated in any event ...
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If the hypothetical LEC driver was considering winter tyres, I have it on good authority that should your, I mean their, car be fitted with the MB logoed brake calipers and perforated discs (can't remember exactly what they were called - performance brakes or some such marketing guff I expect!) then the smaller wheel options won't fit over the callipers. So you, I mean they, might be stuck with expensive 18" wheels and tyres I think. At least that's what MB Chichester told me last year. But then mine actually coped absolutely fine on normal tyres :-)
Having said that, I did fit them to our A4 one winter (17" in place of the standard 18") and they certainly improved grip in cold weather.
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>> But then mine actually coped absolutely fine on normal tyres :-)
Best whisper that Peter ( shhh, so did mine... )
;-)
But it is interesting to know what the costs might be. My hypothetically interested "friend's" car does have the fancy brakes by the by. It's a "Sport" model I think he might have said...
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I think your friend has brown trousers..... I'd tell him to grow a pair if i were you.
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I expect he's just trying to have an open mind. You know, to at least listen to the other point of view before deciding ( whether ) to ignore it...
;-)
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Nah, he is getting old. Next thing you know people will be saying he has terrible taste in clothes and shoes..
Have a word with him.
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I may well suggest he asks the local MB dealer what a set of wheels and winter tyres to fit would cost and he'll most probably decide that while that answer is indeed interesting it might not be quite interesting enough for the 3 days a year it might make any noticeable difference.
All this palaver aside, as I mentioned earlier, it does beg the question as to why all tyres fitted to all cars in countries with winters aren't always "all season" if it makes such a difference to safety. Genuinely, not meant as a dig at anyone. We've seen from posts here that the costs aren't noticeably different so it's not that.
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>> anyone. We've seen from posts here that the costs aren't noticeably different so it's not
>> that.
>
The all season version of my beloved rain experts, are in fact a fiver less per corner.
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Cost wise I got an idea from here:
tinyurl.com/nkch7fq
Around £1,900 for genuine MB 18" alloys (those are the same design as fitted to my car) and continental winter tyres. MB Chichester wanted more than £2k from memory. Both were enough to make me not bother, though of course the tyre cost is not really relevant as you'd have used tyres anyway! Had I been able to fit 16 or 17" wheels / tyres for nearer £1k than £2k I'd have given it a go..
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Blood and sand ! Two thousand quid !!!???
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 23 Sep 13 at 20:44
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The winter tyres themselves are 'just' £736 if I'm reading that correctly, which I think is less than normal tyres? So if you can be bothered with the faff, and don't mind 4 part used tyres in the corner of your garage, you could have summer tyres swapped for winters on the cars normal wheels,then swapped back in the spring. That way the incremental cost is just the charge for swapping them over then back again :-)
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Well, I guess the base line for the price analysis is that sometime soon ( if I replace like for like ) I'm going to need two Continental Sport Contacts 265/35/18Y Extra Load fitted anyway.
Can't remember what they cost last year but I want to think they were over £200 each. Maybe even £250. Best get googling.
Edit - Currently £199.20 at Kwik Fit
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 23 Sep 13 at 20:59
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My MB dealer is surprisingly competitive on tyres; I'm sure i paid less than £200 for those tyres (again Continental) earlier in the year, and as a bonus the car was cleaned too!
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If the dealer was competitive i'd be inclined to use them too at premier footballer pricing, more likely (well in theory) to get your wheels back in good condition, and refurbed properly without a fight should the fitter inadvertantly scratch one.
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Yeah, I had the fronts changed at the last service. Slightly different size (245/40/18) and I'm remembering £160-ish each at MB.
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I may be the only one on here who doesn't see wheels as things of great beauty - and was therefore quite happy to get some steel wheels and put the all-season Kleber tyres on them. Black steel wheels on a white Skoda don't look that bad anyway, and the cost saving has given me a far greater sense of well-being than alloys could ever do.
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Steels on the Outlander, saves the dopey machined and lacquered 18" alloys.
There are though cost effective alloys available, in common sizes at any rate, as part of complete wheel deals on mytyres. A lot of the designs are actually referred to as being 'ideal for winter use'.
The set of four mounted with Vredestein Sportrac 3 that I got for the MX5 this summer were barely £400 in total. The tyres alone would have been at least half that with fitting.
A lot of the designs are actually referred to as being 'ideal for winter use', as they were - I don't think the old banger looks too bad on them.
goo.gl/JR5Sy2
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I might try a pair of Snow Socks on the driving wheels this winter should the white stuff visit. A bit of a fag to fit and remove as you ruin them if you get to dry tarmac but better than getting stranded and a set of winter tyres would cost more than my car's worth. Mind you, a set of ditch finders cost more than my car's worth.
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LIDL had snow chains at a very reasonable price last winter.
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>> LIDL had snow chains at a very reasonable price last winter.
Probably sold out by now though.
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I have some Weissenfels (I think) snow socks which i used a few times last year in the snow and was amazed at how good they were- the car was surefooted and able to get up some pretty steep hills in the fresh snow locally. Granted they were a faff to get on and off, but in an emergency I couldn't fault them at all.
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www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/66074/best-winter-tyres-prices-tests-and-alternatives
Have a read.
The alternative is all season tyres or getting nowhere in your summer tyres. :-)
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update bought two continental tyres they the ts790 got them for £82 including fitting and balancing. this was by the local motor parts and tyres shop.
The price is the same online, but excluding fitting so all in all a good deal.
Am fitting them on the front, still need two more so thinking of fitting two all seasons
they the vredestien quatrac 3 or the Dunlop 4 season.
The tyrefitter commented why buy them when it not even snowing, told him wait until it get colder and snow then there be demand for the tyres
he also said it made sense to fit the two contis on the front wheels as it a fwd and for the back commented on either fitting all season or just normal, as our weather can be temperamental
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so people what do yu suggest for fitting on the back wheels, should I fit a summer tyre, a all season or winter all round bear in mind I got no spare cash to spend on another set for the summer.
Last edited by: sajid on Tue 24 Sep 13 at 20:27
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Put another two Conti winters on the back at that price.
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I wanna balance rolling resistance and wear and tear and grip so the conti I ordered there where just 2 on stock, he mentioned hankook w310 instead
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Sorry Sajid, i always try to change my tyres in 4's, i don't really like mixing them as you are suggesting, i would fit 2 more winter tyres to the rear if the car was mine, of equal quality.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 24 Sep 13 at 20:42
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I wanna balance rolling resistance and wear and tear and grip so the conti I ordered there where just 2 on stock, he mentioned hankook w310 instead
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Have the same tyres on each corner - I doubt you'll notice much difference in fuel economy, grip or wear rate compared to non-winter rubber.
Having winter tyres on the front and less grippy rubber on the back in snow may well lead to disaster.
If you wanted all-season you should have bought 4 all-season - there is no real reason NOT to use winter tyre throughout the year (yes they are marginally worse than summer tyres for grip but unless you drive like Schumacher you probably won't ever see the summer grip limits)
Hankook W310s should work out ok - they are winter compound so are unlikely to be massively different to the Contis in the snow.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 24 Sep 13 at 21:19
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I had Hankook summers on my Westfield. Stuck to corners like, er um, "something sticky" to a blanket...
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>> so people what do yu suggest for fitting on the back wheels, should I fit
>> a summer tyre, a all season or winter all round bear in mind I got
>> no spare cash to spend on another set for the summer.
I can only say what I said before, I'd fit the same sort of tyre to both ends.
I don't think the sky will fall in if they are different brands, but I wouldn't just fit winters to the front. You need grip at both ends for going round corners, and ideally not less at the back than you have at the front.
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For a experiment i tried this with winters on the front and summer on the rear, took them small roundabouts with a camber the back end shot round almost lost it.
Ordered 2 more winters perfect handling.
The winters are infact all season tyres not specific for winter only not to get confused.
Tyre rotation is no problem swap front to rear in 6 months.
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will order 2 more tyres, to replace the Potenza at the back, am waiting to see if I can get the goodyear ultra grip 8, or try and get the hankooks, instead the local tyre fitter will let me know
thanks for the replies guys, having fitted winters previously, it made a difference in driving to the snow this year and the last, I been running the snows all year round, I sometimes think they cold weather tyres, as the grip in the wet is a lot better than the summers I had previously the Potenzas
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Its great fun to take them hills or roads on estates where the gritter has not been and you can go up with ease & down without sliding.
Passing stuck motorists as you drive past grinning like a cat. :-)
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I remembered the last time I had summer tyres all round, it snowed, and when I drove to the st where I lived and its hillly, having put the car in reverse handbrake and foot brake on, I was unable to stop it sliding, it slid all the way at the bottom, with no control of the steering or brakes, I just sat still expecting it to hit the parked cars. I was lucky no cars hit, it made me determined never again so I got the winters on.
no problem at all in the snow
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I was unable to stop it sliding, it
>> slid all the way at the bottom, with no control of the steering or brakes,
>> I just sat still expecting it to hit the parked cars.
Isn't that the most hopeless feeling, absolutely nothing you can do about it.
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I did that once in Hemel Hempstead with a Bedford TK loaded with reams of paper!!
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>> I did that once in Hemel Hempstead with a Bedford TK loaded with reams of
>> paper!!
Is the runaway lane for brake failures still there, indeed are any of them still there, i don't recall seeing one for ages the last one i saw was so overgrown with weeds and shrubbery you'd be doing well to find it if you weren't in a runaway panic.
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>> >> I did that once in Hemel Hempstead with a Bedford TK loaded with reams
>> of
>> >> paper!!
>>
>> Is the runaway lane for brake failures still there, indeed are any of them still
>> there, i don't recall seeing one for ages the last one i saw was so
>> overgrown with weeds and shrubbery you'd be doing well to find it if you weren't
>> in a runaway panic.
There are a couple I think on Jubilee Way in Dover - the ramp that takes the A2 into the Eastern Docks. Also seem to remember their being one on Seamer or Ganton Hill as one approaches Scarborough from the Market Weighton direction.
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>> >> I did that once in Hemel Hempstead with a Bedford TK loaded with reams
>> of
>> >> paper!!
>>
>> Is the runaway lane for brake failures still there,
Yes. Needed raking last time I passed.
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There's a runaway lane at the top of the hill on the autoroute exit leading down into Cherbourg too...and a clump of sturdy looking trees at the end of it, presumably to stop the runaway if the lane doesn't do the trick :-0
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>>Is the runaway lane for brake failures still there
Gawd gord, I'm going a'back some 40 years, All I remember was that I was delivering paper to a small printers in the old (residential) part, the road was downhill and it was icy icy.
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Previously I was an advocate for fitting winter tyres but even Volvo are starting to sell cars with variations:
selekt.volvocars.co.uk/selekt-search-results/Volvo-S80-5099978/
This car has two Pirelli P Zero tyres and two Triangle tyres. I have no idea if Triangle tyres are good or bad but the above car had the matching tyres at diagonals on the car mixing brand new Triangle with part worn Pirelli on each axle.
If it's good enough for a Volvo warrantied car I don't know what all the fuss is about matching tyres and axles.
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>>If it's good enough for a Volvo warrantied car I don't know what all the fuss is about matching tyres and axles
This is not a sign of quality car maintenance.
This is a sign of a dealership spending the absolute bare minimum to get its forecourt cars legal.
I expect the Volvo owner's manual will not recommend the use of different tread patterns at different corners of the car.
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OK, I was being a bit mischievous but when main dealers are knocking this kind of thing out and people are spending top dollar thinking they are buying into "manufacturer endorsed safety" (whatever that may be) you can see how the unaware are easily caught out.
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 25 Sep 13 at 17:05
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Presumably the Volvo dealer concerned knows or thinks it knows its customers then, white goods buyers?, most of us here i'm sure would walk away in disgust once we'd clocked that cheap tyre mish mash and vow never to darken their doorstep again so long as we draw breath.
Something like that speaks volumes to me but more so if such tyres have been fitted by the present or previous owner, i always wonder just how poor the parts went in where you can't see (such as brakes oils and filters) if they've bought the cheapest tat they could find for the most important and visible part you can buy.
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you could tell by how much the owner has spent time and money on the car, by the makes of tyres service history and receipts of parts.
My car is currently serviced by the dealer, and also have extended the warranty for another 2 years, the warranty covers wear and tear
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you could tell by how much the owner has spent time and money on the car, by the makes of tyres service history and receipts of parts.
My car is currently serviced by the dealer, and also have extended the warranty for another 2 years, the warranty covers wear and tear
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>> I have no
>> idea if Triangle tyres are good or bad
>>
They're bad.
However on a large, ESP equipped car like the S80, you'd probably get away with them. They'd be more of an issue on an old supermini driven by a young lad.
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>> I have no
>> idea if Triangle tyres are good or bad .............
They're "budget" tyres. www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/
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bought two more winter tyres from the mytyres website, they the continental ts830, the rears are conti 790 the difference between the 2 is that the 830 is newer and is a higher speed rating, the 790 are rated at t whilst the 830 is rated at h.
The bridgestone Potenza I had were rated at v, you can fit different speed rated tyres on each axle
the conti 790 are lot quieter than the Potenza I had, the grip is more assured, I got the 790 for £164 that included fitted and balancing.
The 830 the local didn't have them, so I got the 830 from mytyres and for fitting including balancing, new valve, and disposal of tyres £7 per tyre, well worth the £120 per tyre I got which was exorbitant,
Quikfit wanted £359 for two Pirellis
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>>>Quikfit wanted £359 for two Pirellis
I'm not a fan of said outlet but I do think I should let them quote as they are paying the rates and employing people where I live. Of course their first price is very high so I say I can buy online for x and of course I have to pay y for fitting so can they get close? Sometimes they can or do bit better but most times they can't.
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>>NeilS
Have you tried booking Kwik Fit online? Last tyres I bought were as cheap that way as through any of the online retailers.
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>> bought two more winter tyres from the mytyres website,
Thats you sorted then, you'll be smiling smugly i hope as you cruise past those who don't need them spinning their wheels like billio and getting nowhere fast.
£7 a corner fitting is very good, is that via Mytyres fitters guide?
I have used that service before, the second time though the fitter charged me well over what was quoted as their price on the site, ok no problem these things happen.
I contacted Mytyres explaining what had happened so they could update their now wrong fitting prices for this tyre shop, they asked for and i scanned and emailed the receipt...got an apologetic email and a refund of the difference (didn't ask for nor expect this) next day, and they had updated their site accordingly.
Very good and unexpected customer service.
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If you get winters fitted to your existing wheels, are tyre companies then available to fit back your summers in the spring? If so, what do they usually charge for the service without the purchase of any tyres?
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If so, what do they usually charge for the service without the purchase of any tyres?
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My bloke charges me a tenner a corner, thats fair as far as i'm concerned, i can do my own if needs must but lack balancing equipment and i really can't be bothered any more.
Another chap i use charges the same but does it at my house, i always have the wheels off ready for him, and use the opportunity to do a brake check etc, suits us both.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Thu 3 Oct 13 at 11:02
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the mytyres price is just the delivery price, the fitting extra and the cheapest I got was £7, I can see that it going to be a very cold and SNOWY winter, cant wait to see how the tyres cope, and then you see the local rag reporting, only one little Honda jazz manage to make it on the road without spinning lol
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"....what do they usually charge for the service without the purchase of any tyres?"
I found it was £15 - £20 if they had to change the tyres using the same wheels. Many fitters will do it for nothing if it's just a matter of changing alloys to steel wheels (assuming you can't be bothered to do it yourself). A set of steel wheels can soon pay for itself because of this.
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With a view to moving my wife's Focus on to 'all- seasons' tyres, it would appear that not all 'all-seasons' tyres are available in all sizes.
We were offered Goodyear Vector 4Seasons - although they won't be available until later in the month. Has anyone on here any experience of these tyres?
Thanks H
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winter tyres - WillDeBeest
