Motoring Discussion > I hate my car and need to change it.... Buying / Selling
Thread Author: Dieselboy Replies: 58

 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
I currently run a 2009 ‘59’ plate Citroen C4 Picasso 5 seat, with the 1.6Hdi engine and EGS gearbox. Whilst it does the job it is meant to do, ie hauling family, trips to the tip etc, very well – I HATE IT! I hate the wallowy ride, I hate the electric parking brake, and above all I hate the gearbox. One might ask why I bought it in the first place, but that’s a mystery even to me...

So, I am on the lookout. The stumbling block to me really is cost to change. In an ideal world I’d like to put up as little as possible. I reckon on my C4 being worth about £5.5k (35k with FSH).

I would like the following:
Estate (for pushchairs/junk etc)
Preferably diesel (I just prefer the drive)
Cupholders (gotta have my brew on the way to work)
Reliability
Engaging to drive


I’m not bovvered about having something that’s up on the miles. For instance, I’ve seen a 10 plate Mazda6 2.2d Sport with 110k for around £6k. That floats my boat.

Anyway, over to you guys for suggestions. Ford Mondeo I hear you cry?!
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Zero
Yes Mazda 6 is a good starting point. You really dont need to look further than that - Bit noisy tho.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - DP
>> Yes Mazda 6 is a good starting point. You really dont need to look further
>> than that - Bit noisy tho.

Nice car, but the DPF system on the diesels is fundamentally flawed and is notorious for diluting the engine oil with diesel and ultimately lunching the engine. I know two people who had them, and one had two replacement engines in 80,000 miles, the original in the other went at 60k.

Diesel versions of the 6 really are best avoided.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Alanovich
Wasn't that the old Mk1 though with the 2.0 diesel?

I thought the Mk2s with the 2.2 diesels were robust. The 10 plate which the OP mentions will be a Mk2 2.2.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - MD
Forgive me if I'm wrong Zero, but I thought that Mazda Diesels were to be avoided.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Alanovich
Look for a Renault Laguna estate and you probably won't have to add much more money to the value of your current car at all.

I love mine.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Boxsterboy
I think a Mondeo is a good call. Good to drive, roomy, comfortable. Plenty around and prices are low these days. Quite big when it comes to parking, though

I had a Grand Picasso 2.0 HDI EGS five years ago which I had to get rid of after 3 months because the seat gave me chronic back-ache. The wallowing (comfortable) ride I could accept. The EGS was far from perfect, but it was the seats that did it for me. We replaced it with an S-Max, which I would recommend but suspect they will be a bit dog-eared at your budget.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Avant
Think about a Toyota Verso 2.0 diesel: it's not as boring to drive as the road tests make out, and it has a proper handbrake. I'd recommend the manual: you can get petrol Versos but the engines are a little on the feeble side.

A Mazda 5 is an alternative: if you don't want another MPV then the Mazda 6 is a good idea, but go for a petrol-powered one.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Runfer D'Hills
Well, you know what I'm going to say. "Titanium X" specced ones are the nicest in my view...

:-)
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
Hmmm, a range of thoughts there.

I also thought the DPF problems on the Mazda6 were limited to the 2.0 diesel. The one I've seen is the 2.2 - all reviews I've seen seem to be okay for DPF issues.

I have a friend who has a petrol Verso and he is a bit 'meh' about it.

Renault Laguna - I've had two in the past, a 1997 2.2d Executive and a 2001 1.6 and I did like them, but I'm not sure about the styling of the newer ones. I have found this though - www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201308238447102

Mrs DB has a 2008 Mazda2 which has needed nothing in the 3 years she's had it - that's the main reason I'm tempted down the Japanese route. Would a Renault give me the same peace of mind....?
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
Hang on, scrap the idea of a Laguna. I've just noticed it's got an 'invention of the devil' electric parking brake.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Alanovich
Mine has a proper handbrake. It's a 58 reg 2.0dCi Dynamique estate. No DPF, no electric brake.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Alanovich
>> Mine has a proper handbrake. It's a 58 reg 2.0dCi Dynamique estate. No DPF, no
>> electric brake.
>>

Oh, and no cambelt either.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Focusless
Re. the 6 - HJ appears to imply it's just the 2.0 with the DPF problem:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/mazda/6-2008/?section=bad
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 26 Sep 13 at 16:28
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - DP
>> Re. the 6 - HJ appears to imply it's just the 2.0 with the DPF
>> problem:
>> www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/mazda/6-2008/?section=bad

But the Introduction page mentions it affecting the 2.2, as well as a timing chain issue.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/mazda/6-2008/?

Typo maybe?

 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Zero

>> Renault give me the same peace of mind....?

no.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Alanovich
Given the problems we read about on here with Hyundais, Hondas, Toyotas, Fords, Vauxhalls..........that doesn't make it unique.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Robbie34
Honda Accord Tourer, post 2008 with the 2.2 I-DTEC engine. Very economical and bomb proof.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - mikeyb
Volvo V50 although may be to small?

C5 Tourer

Accord
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
Thanks for the suggestions. I think the V50 would be too small, we have V50s as response vehicles at work and they are quite dinky. I had a saloon C5 before my C4 and quite liked it, although there is a lack of cupholders! The Accord is worth a look I think...
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Boxsterboy
>> I had a saloon C5
>> before my C4 and quite liked it, although there is a lack of cupholders!
>>

Yep, them pesky Frenchies favour wine bottle holders over cup holders ...!
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - ....
>> I would like the following:
>> Estate (for pushchairs/junk etc)
>> Preferably diesel (I just prefer the drive)
>> Cupholders (gotta have my brew on the way to work)
>> Reliability
>> Engaging to drive
>>
>>
What about one of these ?
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201308308542951

Money back, throw anything you want in the back or get a bit of old scaffold and make a roof rack.
No need to worry about the inside getting dirty just open the door while you're washing it and hose the inside out too.
Probably the most engaging drive you'll ever have if you try to drive it like a road car.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
>>What about one of these ?
>>www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201308308542951
>>
>>Money back, throw anything you want in the back or get a bit of old scaffold and make a >>roof rack.
>>No need to worry about the inside getting dirty just open the door while you're washing it >>and hose the inside out too.
>> Probably the most engaging drive you'll ever have if you try to drive it like a road car.

Can't see no cupholders ;-)
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - ....
Don't need them, anything you spill you simply hose out :-)
Last edited by: gmac on Thu 26 Sep 13 at 16:55
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
Hmmm...

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201304246433686
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dutchie
We've got the 2013 model six speed manual gearbox.My opinion is the opposite to you about the C4 Grand Picasso.Electric handbrake easy to use,it was new to me, when stopped comes on automatically.I drive the car like no mimser usually to fast continental style.Of course it rolls a bit on round abouts if taking quick its' a big motor.
Excellent vieuw and comfy seats far better than the Focus I had before.Plenty of room in the boot for the wheelchair.

Brother in law has the same car with the gearbox like yours.It is different to drive he never complained about it.He's owned the car five years now.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
Well, it'd be a dull world if we were all the same, wouldn't it?

 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Runfer D'Hills
Given a level playing field I'm sort of with you Dieselboy. The Mazda despite its miles is almost certainly a nicer place to sit than the Citroen you have and, if a more or less no cost deal could be done ( can't see why not those C4s seem to be up for a bit more than that at your age and miles ) you'd end up with a more pleasing car, probably...

However, I'm not sure it is a level playing field. I try to look not just at what a car costs me now but what it will have cost me when I'm done with it and while a high miler like the Mazda may be a good enough buy now, unless you're going to keep it a very long time and/or for a lot more miles ( when depreciation isn't really the main concern ) I'd fear it'll depreciate much faster than your current car.

I'd imagine anyway that in 3 years time for example, the C4 will be worth quite a lot more than the Mazda purely based on the public's reluctance to buy high mileage cars. I've no idea what annual mileage you do but as a stab in the dark based on the Citroen's current odometer reading I'm guessing about 9k annually? On that basis, in 3 years time the Mazda would have done nigh on 140k and be getting pretty tough to sell for any real money whereas the Citroen you have would still be under 70k and reasonably attractive on the second hand market.

None of the above helps to win the man-maths debate of course and I really do see where you're coming from. I guess we've all bought cars we thought would tick our boxes only to be disappointed by the reality of living with them. All Vauxhalls I've ever bought have never failed to disappoint, I can't begin to discuss the Renault I had any more and I really wasn't sad to see a Volvo 940 go. My wife had a Merc A Class for a little less than a year because she really couldn't get on with it. Cost a packet to bail out of that but sometimes it's the right thing to do if you're really not happy. Bit like a bad marriage really !

It's a tough one to advise you on to be honest without suggesting you raid the depths of the piggy bank a little more...

Or buy a Mondeo of course !

;-)

Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 26 Sep 13 at 20:54
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - legacylad
How about upping the stakes and going for a 530d Touring? Punt your motor off via BCA Suresell and then use the services of a professional auction buyer.
That should tick most of the boxes. You might be surprised just how attainable they are once out of the dealer network.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - RattleandSmoke
I have seen quite a few of the earlier Mazda 6's with really bad rust on the wheel arch. Saw an 05 plate the day which was very rusty but it might have been a bad body work repair.

I agree with Run that swapping to that Mazda might cost you more in the long run.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
Wise words there Runfer...

There is definitely an element of man maths in this - the thought of keeping the C4 for any length of time fills me with dread.

You are of course quite correct in your analysis of what a high miler may be worth after 3 years, however I rarely keep a car that long. The only car that has lasted that long with me was an Alfa 156 2.4JTD.

I don't know, I've been looking online at Passats, although they do have an electric parking brake, seems a 59/10 plate with nearing 100k is do-able for £6k ish. I had a 1998 Passat years ago, bought at 134k and took up to 200k with no issues.

I just can't get the hatred for my C4 out of my head...

Hmmmmmmm....
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Boxsterboy
I'm driving a spare work Passat 2.0 TDI Estate at the moment (11-plate, 45k on the clock).

It ticks all your boxes, except ... 'engaging to drive'. The DSG box is light years ahead of your EGS, and is actually one of the good points of the car. It is smooth, refined, comfortable, economical, easy to drive, has good cup-holders. But it is not in any way 'engaging'.
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Fri 27 Sep 13 at 10:38
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - R.P.
3 series - stunning cup holder technology.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Zero
An 2007 polo cup holder technology makes it look positively antique.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - R.P.
What a folding one with damped joints ??
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Zero
>> What a folding one with damped joints ??

Oh yes, Comes out of the dashboard along side the radio.


(no I dont mean the cd drawer)
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - WillDeBeest
Comes out of the dashboard alongside the radio.

Why do you want a big container of hot, possibly milky and sugary liquid poised to slosh all over the most delicate and expensive circuitry inside your car? Come to that, why would you want such a thing inside a moving car at all?
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Robin O'Reliant

>> Why do you want a big container of hot, possibly milky and sugary liquid poised
>> to slosh all over the most delicate and expensive circuitry inside your car? Come to
>> that, why would you want such a thing inside a moving car at all?
>>

Because it's a challenge.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Zero
>> Comes out of the dashboard alongside the radio.
>>
>> Why do you want a big container of hot, possibly milky and sugary liquid poised
>> to slosh all over the most delicate and expensive circuitry inside your car?

The radio is behind the dash. The coffee is in front of the dash, it sloshes all over your passengers knees. How cool is that!
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - BiggerBadderDave
"What a folding one with damped joints ?"

Keep them straight and dry or you can't light them.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
Ah, but is it more engaging than a roly poly Picasso?!
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - legacylad
If you are properly hustling a 530d Touring down the road then both hands are on the wheel. Stuff cupholders.
After over 3 years of 330 ownership I haven't a clue as to whether I even have any cupholders. Never bothered looking.

Cue BBD about cup holding whilst on the move.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - CGNorwich
"If you are properly hustling a 530d Touring down the road then both hands are on the wheel. "

No, expert drivers only ever have one hands on the wheel - already discussed at length. :-)
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - legacylad
Just shows wot a carp driver I am then.

Hangs head in disgrace and shuffles off.....
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Lygonos
Pretty sure they're easy enough to control with your thighs while peeling a boiled egg.

Cup holders are useful for keeping the salt.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - WillDeBeest
There's a recommendation you don't hear from every GP, Lygo.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Runfer D'Hills
I do know where you're coming from Dieselboy. Slowly but surely blokes are realising that what they actually need, indeed want and are downright entitled to is a bloke's car.

They are not going to suffer the MPV/SUV flim flam any more ! ( cue rousing music )

;-)
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - WillDeBeest
Till we have built Jerusalem
In the capacious load space of a large estate car!


As one who made just that decision last year, I can endorse Humph's recommendation. Especially if you use the car for long journeys, a normal-height car is just so much more pleasant to travel in.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Paul Robinson
I think it depends on the tall car - my Wife's Cmax is very pleasant on a long journey and better through the twisty bits than many normal-height cars.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - WillDeBeest
Maybe so, and the S-Max is competent too. But I suspect either would be outperformed by the standard car on which it's based.

In any case, it's not all about twisty bits; long journeys consist largely of fast, straight roads, and a car with a tall body, and necessarily stiffer springs to control it all, will always be harder work than the same basic mechanicals in a normal-height shell.

Our LEC is no sports car - at times it feels positively stodgy and it especially dislikes double-mini roundabouts - but it's a great car to drive all day. The tall-bodied Verso it replaced was light and easy, even agile, for 20 minutes, then got rapidly more fatiguing. Certainly wouldn't have fancied our two successive 400-mile days back from the Pyrenees in that - especially since it would have required a roofbox that would have made its aerodynamics even worse. (The LEC just swallowed the lot, as a true family car should.)
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Boxsterboy
Whereas i find a raised driving position more comfortable so far as my legs are concerned. Plus you have better visibility, a brighter airier cabin, and more space. Most of my long journeys are motorways or dual carriageways where twisty bits are non-existent.

On annual trips to the Alps i find the S-Max more comfortable than the E class estate we had before. Horses for courses.
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Sat 28 Sep 13 at 15:19
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Runfer D'Hills
As you say, all down to personal preference. I've had many cars and continue to drive many miles a week. I've had a Galaxy, an Espace and a Qashqai in amongst nearly countless estate cars and currently I have an estate. For daily long distance use there's no contest as far as I'm concerned. Estate car every time. Sitty uppy cars are fine for dashing about locally and I do get the increased visibility advantage, but if I've spent all day and a few hundred miles in that "perched on a bar stool" position I'm in kinks, while in my prefered laid back lounger pose I can go all day and the next and the next again without a twinge.

Anyway, SUVs / MPVs are girls cars !

;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 28 Sep 13 at 16:33
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Boxsterboy
>> Ah, but is it more engaging than a roly poly Picasso?!
>>

Oh yes. But in a strange way I find the roly ploy understeery Picasso handling quite fun.

The problem with the Passat, I think, is the steering. It is over-light and gives precious little feedback. I'm not sure if it is hydraulic or electric but either way it is the weakest link. Mondeo or S-Max steering is light enough but somehow gives much more feel.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
Well, I think I'm back on to a Mazda6, but the 2.2d 163bhp in TS2 trim. I've spoken at length to the guys who service my wife's Mazda2 and I've been sufficiently reassured about the DPF issue.

Zoom zoom!
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Runfer D'Hills
Sounds like a plan !
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
Well, the deed is done.

My car and a small amount of cash for a Mazda6 TS2 2.2 diesel estate with 92k on. It's in better condition than my Picasso and seems a much nicer place to be. Picking it up on Friday, can't wait.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Runfer D'Hills
Welcome back to "blokeworld" !

i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/19/article-0-0258BC8100000578-644_468x450.jpg

;-)
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Fenlander
Hope the Mazda serves you well DB. They were on my shortlist if I'd taken another lease after the C5 last year.
 I hate my car and need to change it.... - Dieselboy
Well, what have I been missing? What a lovely car. Poles apart from the Picasso.

We're off to northern Scotland next week, so I'll post my thoughts on the 6 when we get back.
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