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I have now been driving for 34 years now and have driven more cars and vans than I can remember, both diesel and petrol and like to think that I have a certain amount of mechanical "sympathy" for whatever I am driving. So why does the change up indicator always want me to change up way earlier than I feel I should do or thinks that I should be in 6th when I reckon I should still be in 4th. I have tried changing up when it says too but always feel that I want to change straight back down as the engine feels "unhappy" to me. I must have driven at least 6 cars with this device and they have all been the same. Is it just me ?
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No my three series does this......Me ignoring a down shift suggestion triggered the mimsing warning light coming on, discussed and ridiculed elsewhere on the site..
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My Ceed does the same, I give it a good ignoring.
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First came across this carp in DAF lorries around 1983, and as above, been ignoring them ever since.
Gone the other way now, the automated manual box wants to rev the guts out of the engine at junctions and early into hills, i override the (still) carp, and keep the revs low and the gearchanges minimal.
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Well, on my car a little German elf takes care of the mundanities of gearchanging. He's quite good at it you'd have to say, so by and large I don't interfere.
Just as well there isn't a "change now" light on the Qashqai though. It's only a 1.6 petrol and you have to rag the nuts off it to get it to accelerate at any reasonable rate. That's ok though, it's what small petrol engines are for isn't it?
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 26 Oct 13 at 19:08
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>Just as well there isn't a "change now" light on the Qashqai
I have a "change now" light in the Z28. It's shaped like a pair of underpants.
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Bobbies "Change now" light on his shoes is broke.
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Zero - you're enough to make a moderator laugh
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The one on the volvo - a simple up pointing arrow - asked to early for my liking. If you were driving gently then it would instruct you to change so early that you were always just off the turbo, although to be fair if you gave it the beans it didn't light up until you were clear of 4K rpm
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>> Well, on my car a little German elf takes care of the mundanities of gearchanging.
>>
As elfs are a European concept I expect my next car to have a Japanese robot to do the job, definitely assisted by a torque converter.
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The Street Triple has them - damned distracting and bright blue LEDs....but being bikers, we are trusted to set our own rev limits and turn them off - which I have...
Warning this clip may give you vertigo.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=apjIrXEuUlg
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>> Well, on my car a little German elf takes care of the mundanities of gearchanging.
>> He's quite good at it you'd have to say, so by and large I don't
>> interfere.
I have gone back to a manual which I swore I would never do, but the choice of medium sized cars with proper TC autoboxes is getting limited and hell will freeze over before I will buy a automated manual. Only thing I occasionally forget to do is change down when coming up to a roundabout or junction.
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Our Up! has one of those infernal gear change indicators. I swear if you actually followed it the car would shake itself to bits and hold up half of West Sussex. A three cylinder 1 litre engine was made to be thrashed!!
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>> Our Up! has one of those infernal gear change indicators. I swear if you actually
>> followed it the car would shake itself to bits and hold up half of West
>> Sussex. A three cylinder 1 litre engine was made to be thrashed!!
>>
How do you find the Up! Peter?
I had a Lupo back in '01 and I've got use of another now for a part time job I do. A couple of unusual features about Lupos, the horn doesn't operate with the ignition off (Or maybe they don't on most cars, haven't checked for years) but the brake lights do. And VW do fit excellent quality radios to their base models, far superior to the aftermarket upgrade someone stuck in my Astra.
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I think the gear change light is an EU thing and all cars have them now?
At least you can ignore it in a manual - I drove a Mondeo diesel auto and the engine was going at not much more than tickover at 30MPH and it didn't feel right at all.
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I think that the Up! is a very well thought out car. It's only small, but the engine (ours is the 75PS version) is more than adequate to shift it along briskly, as long as you ignore the gear change indicator :-; We took our to Paris earlier in the year, and it never once felt out of its depth on the autoroute. Despite quite a lot of painted metal visible in the interior it doesn't feel at all cheap, and it's incredibly well equipped for such a small car - Bluetooth/satnav/aircon/heated seats etc etc all standard. The only thing we should have specced but didn't is cruise control. Silly for a city car I know, but it's more than capable on long journeys and cruise would help! Performance, ride and handling are all impressive for such a small car, and it looks and feels, to me, like a quality product. I never drive it and feel short changed, if that makes sense? Ours is credit crunch white, but I think it suits it!
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I assume those change-up lights are designed for maximum economy and minimum pollution, mimsing on a level or downhill road. If you want to go faster or are travelling uphill they don't apply.
I would imagine too that a lot of cars with six-speed gearboxes won't reach their maximum speed in top gear except down a long hill.
Of course no actual driver would need the damn annoying things for any of these reasons. They are for mainstream helpless car users.
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>> I assume those change-up lights are designed for maximum economy and minimum pollution, mimsing on
>> a level or downhill road. If you want to go faster or are travelling uphill
>> they don't apply.
Even my last "proper" auto changed up earlier than I wanted it to and would be in 4th by 30mph which especially before it had warmed was too soon and you could feel that the engine was struggling. I ended up using it in Tiptronic half the time.
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After my time. I can't understand why anyone would think they were a good idea.
No automatic indicator can read the road ahead, assess likely traffic changes, know what your next intentions are.
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Was about to start a thread on this very subject!!
I've always judged changes, in last 20 yrs with diesels, to keep engine in 2-3k rpm torque band
Fleur, the new HDi/115 Berlingo has a discrete little arrow in the instrument panel telling when to change. If followed it tends to leave you just slightly labouring just a tad under the torque curve.
The Hyundai i30 we had on holiday this week was more commanding. Not just an arrow but number for target gear too. Wanted me to change up when just shy of 2k rpm. Following it
left us not just under the torque spread, I swear I could feel every detonation through wheel and seat! Driving mountain roads in second at 20mph it was telling me to change up just in time for next hairpin and slowing back to 15.
Daft, Daft, Daft.
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Well it can't see the hairpin can it? You have to use your loaf :)
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My ix35 has this feature and like the OP, I feel that it always asks for a change up too early. Having said that, the engine always seems to have the torque available to do it.
My dad has a 1.6hdi Xsara Picasso, drives it like a vicar, would put his cruise control on at 25mph in 5th if he could! Engine always sounds under pressure that he has changed up too early.
Having said that, he averages 58mpg in his car and when I drive it, to my style and engine sympathies, I can never better 51mpg.
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See my Sat 26 Oct 13 18:36 post back up the thread.
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It's fashion going round again.
Time was when cars didn't have any lights or gauges. You got a dipstick for the fuel tank.
Then they got the basic warning lights.
Then everyone wanted gauges, as many as possible, and enthusiasts wanted a rev counter.
Then it went minimalist again
Now it appears to be going back the other way again, with rows of warning and check lights, many of them MOT-able.
I even had an old Volvo once with a buzzer that told you the door was open. It's fairly easy to spot that anyway, so I quickly unplugged it.
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What happened to the good old vacuum gauge, where you tried to keep the needle in the green band?
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What happened to windscreen wipers which went faster the faster the car went, instead of the faster it rained?
Pat
*feel very old now*
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>> What happened to windscreen wipers which went faster the faster the car went, instead of
>> the faster it rained?
Zeddo disconnected the vacuum pipe to connect up his gauge.
;>)
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Vaccuum operated wipers surely were dependent on the the engine speed not the road speed. My first cars was a Ford 100E and the wipers would almost cease in top gear (third) at about 40mph I seem to remember.
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>> Vaccuum operated wipers surely were dependent on the the engine speed not the road speed.
>> My first cars was a Ford 100E and the wipers would almost cease in top
>> gear (third) at about 40mph I seem to remember.
Because you had your foot flat on the floor trying to go faster. They were entirely dependent on throttle opening. Heavy throttle - no wipers, lift off - mad flappy things.
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On the rev counter thing, I remember having what was to me a surprising conversation with a friend on this subject.
I mentioned in the passing that I hate driving a manual car which is not fitted with a rev counter and use it regularly and instinctively when planning an overtake or whatever. More perhaps than the speedo. I find that I can more or less judge pretty accurately what my speed is, particularly in a car I'm used to, but especially in a narrow power banded manual diesel the rev counter is a real benefit in assisting the forward planning of a corner or overtake.
My pal surprised me a bit anyway ( he's a very experienced driver by the way ) by telling me he "never" uses it and doesn't really know what it's for.
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Never really seen the need for a rev counter. I uses me ear 'oles to judge gear changes, like.
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Which is fine, and I totally get that, but if you happen to be using your ears for some other purpose at the time, then the rev counter is a very useful visual aid.
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I'm not sure there's anything audible which can take such priority over my engine note, nor be happening at such a volume that I can't hear my engine properly, when I'm driving.
Then again I don't drive a super silent triple glazed mega-bucks luxury waft-o-wagon like a Merc LEC I suppose. ;-)
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Try shoving this on the stereo, would even drown out a Renault...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cQh1ccqu8M
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I do enjoy that sort of music, Runfer. Tend towards the heavier if anything. Bit of a Metallica man.
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>> I'm not sure there's anything audible which can take such priority over my engine note,
>> nor be happening at such a volume that I can't hear my engine properly, when
>> I'm driving.
>>
Well it's Pink Floyd for me so not easy to hear the engine at all.
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Er, turn it down a bit then? Isn't the driving of the car and the inputs you need to do that properly more important than how loud you like your music?
Maybe I'm overly nerdy about car control, but I like to do it properly and that includes listening to the engine rather than filling my shell-likes with alternate, louder inputs.
Each to their own I suppose.
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>>but I like to do it properly
Try using your rev counter then. Aids "proper" driving see?
;-)
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Very good, RDH. :-)
I also prefer to be watching the road than watching the rev needle.
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Listening to the engine, rev counters?
Buy an automatic and it will do the job for you.
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I expect taht was partly TIC, but as you probably know, one of my family's cars is a TC auto (the Golf diesel). I don't drive it like a go kart, I listen to the engine note and encourage it to change gears when I want it to by subtle use of the throttle. This helps smooth out gear changes (even TC autos can be jerky if not driven with skill) and is a more mechanically sympathetic method overall.
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Oh quite so CG ! However, even when driving my auto, I occasionally overrule the little German elf in the gearbox with the flappy paddles when I disagree with his choice. He's not often wrong but does need to be reminded of his station now and again.
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>> Maybe I'm overly nerdy about car control, but I like to do it properly and
>> that includes listening to the engine rather than filling my shell-likes with alternate, louder >> inputs.
>>
>> Each to their own I suppose.
>>
We quite often have to drive over 8 hours to visit family, I think it would drive me insane just listening to the car.
As you say, each to their own.
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I very much liked my Saab with a pressure gauge.
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as we all drive like Sherlock, surely these things, just like the highway code, are 'for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men' ?
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That might just be the post of the day borasport ! I think that's more or less what I was rather clumsily trying to say.
If additional information is provided by the vehicle then why not use it when it's to your advantage and equally choose to ignore it when it isn't.
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I fitted a rev counter to the vintage car, had to, I'm now totally deaf.
Bit disappointed though as it had to go back to USA to be reworked as it read half the revs! Car has two cylinders, and is magneto ignition (which they were told), so the sensor wire has both positive and negative going pulses and my guess is the device was ignoring one direction of pulse. (Coil ignition is different but the company normally sell the counters to light aircraft owners and magnetos are quite common there).
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My daughter is being taught to drive on a car with a rev counter, and is taught to use it as a guide so as not to stall when pulling away.
I can see some sense in that I suppose, but it makes her even less sensitive to engine/car feel. As a result she finds it difficult to practice in our car,
But I suppose if you have to have a rule of thumb for geer-changing, then engine revs would be a better instrument to use than the speedometer.
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The Jazz has a revcounter.... 100% superfluous as it is an automatic!
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The only car I regularly look at the rev counter in is the automatic Civic. When I get up to speed I like to get it into lock up, and the easiest way to check is with the rev counter. Doesn't apply with the CVT jobs of course.
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My old Qashqai diesel auto ( 2.0 4wd ) wouldn't happily go into or stay in 6th gear until it was above an indicated 80mph. So obviously I only ever did that in Germany...
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>>The only car I regularly look at the rev counter in is
I never pay any attention to the rev counter, and never have. I wish manufacturers would put something useful in its place, like a gauge to let me know whether or not my battery needs charging.
That would be quite helpful for low mileage drivers like myself.
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>> I never pay any attention to the rev counter, and never have. I wish manufacturers
>> would put something useful in its place, like a gauge to let me know whether
>> or not my battery needs charging.
In your case, its called a calendar isn't it?
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>>The Jazz has a revcounter.... 100% superfluous as it is an automatic!
We have an auto FRV (torque converter) and I sometimes use the rev counter to make sure I'm in a good gear in preparation to overtake, as the VTEC gubbins only sings after 4000rpm.
Maybe saves 0.5-1 sec rather than waiting for kickdown.
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When I set off I usually change over at 2000 refs,cold engine.Engine warm doesn't matter.On the Citroen no temp gauge don't know why.
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I am frankly astounded to learn that such a number of people who presumably like cars and have some interest in them never use, or see no use for their rev counters. No really I am.
I find it an invaluable aid sometimes if I'm, well, you know, "getting on" with completing a journey a bit...
I could understand the lack of interest or understanding if you were, well, "girls" I suppose. ( no offence ladies )
Sheesh !
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 1 Nov 13 at 19:07
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They are not drivers, Runfer, they are domestic appliance users. :-)
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Well, I have been known to load the dishwasher occasionally.
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And use (not drive) a car. :-)
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Can't really see the point of a rev counter in a bog standard 1.8 hatch. A complete waste of space in my 'umble opinion.
Anyway, I'm a spirited driver.
Cheek.
;-)
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When I sold a car for my in laws the woman who was driving it came through a built up area at over twice the speed limit. I finally twigged she thought the rev counter was the speedo and couldn't tell the difference between 3K RPM and 30 MPH.
She still looked blank after I explained what a rev counter did!
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>> She still looked blank after I explained what a rev counter did!
>>
Thats what i call a white knuckle ride, did you offer up a swift thanks for your safe deliverance if somewhat greyer than 20 minutes previously.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Fri 1 Nov 13 at 21:11
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I did look at my rev counter the other week on the M6, just out of interest. It was showing just under 2K revs at 70mph. Don't know whether that's good or not. Anyway, the old girl changes gear when it wants to...not me ! She does have a pretty row of lights to show what gear she's in. I don't look at those either.
It's all right for you country bumpkins but we city boys have too much to look at in the cut and thrust of traffic to have another thing to distract us.
Ted
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>> Can't really see the point of a rev counter in a bog standard 1.8 hatch.
>> A complete waste of space in my 'umble opinion.
>>
I reckon they are almost more useful in a lower powered car, as one needs to make maximum use of the minimal power. Rev counters are essential IMHO.
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>> I reckon they are almost more useful in a lower powered car, as one needs
>> to make maximum use of the minimal power. Rev counters are essential IMHO.
Agree. 'My' Berlingo is an IDI 1.9D producing about 68BHP. Glance at tacho every few seconds on anything more challenging than an undulating A road and use gears to keep engine in 2-3k range where most torque is.
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I find the rev counter useful in an unfamiliar vehicle.
I don't think I ever use it in a vehicle I am familiar with.
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About the only time I consciously use mine is when I take it up to near the rev limiter. I tend to do this once every journey once it's thoroughly warmed up.
I don't like taking it into the rev limiter as it feels so brutal, I don't think cutting the power at full throttle and then re-introducing it can be conducive to engine longevity.
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Change up now - R.P.
