I caught a little bit of a TV programme on one of the minor channels re Motorway cops in New Zealand.
The Motorway was congested due to an incident so the boys and girls went to work to help ease it.
Spanners to undo a length of Armco, lift kick it off the bolts, lift it to one side, lift out the posts and right chaps go through the gap and on your way.
I feel sure there are places where this would be possible but then ... silly me, risk assessment, elf n safety,training etc etc.
Oh well perhaps it was just a dream.
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Keeping the traffic moving is not even on any list of priorities in the UK. It is easier to disrupt the lives and buisineses of tens of thousands to keep a few jobsworths in their jobs.
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ISTR motorists did this on the M11 a few years ago when trapped in the snow. They were severely criticised for their actions!
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They are our roads, they belong to the users, and the agencies are a service industry that should be doing to utmost to provide the best service for the customer.
However
The Highways Agency and the Department of Transport seem to have this idea that the roads belong to them and we are only allowed to use them on their terms as some kind of grace and favour affair.
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>> They are our roads, they belong to the users, and the agencies are a service
>> industry that should be doing to utmost to provide the best service for the customer.
>>
I think that might be arguably true in the case of ordinary non-motorways. They are the Queen's Highway and everyone has a right of way over them. Anyone possessing a ROW is entitled to take action to remove obstructions so that they can exercise their right.
(Ask the Ramblers' Association about farmers and barbed wire :))
But I have a feeling that motorways are different, built specially under different more restrictive rules, and probably somewhere in the small print we have all agreed that we do not possess a right of way.
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>> But I have a feeling that motorways are different, built specially under different more restrictive
>> rules, and probably somewhere in the small print we have all agreed that we do
>> not possess a right of way.
The Turnpike? Not really, we, the people, sanctioned and paid for them, our roads our right of way.
M6T? ah thats a whole new ballgame, private road, private rules.
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>>
>> M6T? ah thats a whole new ballgame, private road, private rules.
>>
But sometimes has speed camera vans on the over bridges and traps near the tolls.
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>> But sometimes has speed camera vans on the over bridges and traps near the tolls.
Both rightly I think. There's something about it's near emptiness that leads to some absurdly fast driving by certain types in high performance cars. The tolls are better since they improved the signage, you can at least identify the card only barriers a reasonable way out etc but people are still going to veer at last minute. The limits and their progression seem rational to me.
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>> There's something about it's near emptiness that leads to some absurdly fast driving by certain types...
Indeed.
Whistles tunelessly, stares at feet and exits stage left...
;-)
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>> Indeed.
>>
>> Whistles tunelessly, stares at feet and exits stage left... ;-)
>>
I recognise the tune :-)
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So, my experience of NZ is there are very few kms of motorway or even dual carriageway and that the population / car density is a fraction of that experienced in the UK.
Put simply, they can possibly apply a bit more pragmatism as a result ?
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Can you use the words 'waft' and 'absurdly fast' in the same sentence. Shirley not.
Does an AMG 63 waft?
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Fast wafting? Sure of course, it's the future LL. It's like the highest level of automotive Karma.
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Jobsworth? Health and safety?
All the occasions we've cut the central barrier to free stationary traffic must be a figment of my imagination.
We also use reverse flow, or apparently we don't. It's all a conspiracy to keep people stuck in jams. I honestly wonder how blinkered you have to be to have such ridiculous views.
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Welcome back MLC, were not all like that - some just accept motorways get jammed and incidents happen.
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>> Welcome back MLC, were not all like that - some just accept motorways get jammed
>> and incidents happen.
+1
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So the hours of delays and miles of stationary traffic after an accident are our imagination then? No flights missed, contracts lost, goods not delivered, holidays disrupted, peoples incomes reduced, need I go on? The main roads are not a reliable method of travel even though cars have become more reliable. For example shutting the M8 for hours last week disrupted much of the West of Edinburgh, Edinburgh airport, and East / West travel across Scotland. How long does it take to comprehensively photograph an incident, take measurements, clear up the mess, and retire to a warm office to sort out what happened? Standing in the road staring at it won't achieve anything.
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In my recent experience an E63 AMG is quite capable of wafting - and then of surprisingly high-pitched snarling when provoked. My colleague, whose car it is, says he prefers it to the S6 he had before as it is more civilized and grown up.
At trundling speeds, we could just as easily have been in my airport taxi-edition E220 diesel - except that the fuel computer was showing a long-term average of 22l/100km.
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Some of our motorways are already fitted with easily removeable sections of barrier and concrete over the centre reservation so that this can be done.
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>> Some of our motorways are already fitted with easily removeable sections of barrier and concrete
>> over the centre reservation so that this can be done.
>>
Thanks for the update and from MLC.
I started this thread as I was totally unaware that the barriers are "easily" removable in specific locations.
I have never seen it mentioned, reported, on in the news or in any of the UK motorway/ police programs. Very odd that.
There are however many reports of folks stuck in traffic for many hours or even the most of the day.
Something does not add up here !
Is it lack of resources, lack of nous or what ?
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"How long does it take to comprehensively photograph an incident, take measurements, clear up the mess, and retire to a warm office to sort out what happened? Standing in the road staring at it won't achieve anything. "
Well, the last fatal I went to on the motorway, I spent two hours trying to make sure I'd recovered the right number of body parts from the 500yd red smear covering the road surface.
I could have probably done it in one and three quarter hours, but in the forefront of my mind was deliberately delaying you. (Just for reference, your comments are unbelievably crass, selfish, ignorant and typical of the 'me,me,me' attitude that pervades our society.
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You are welcome to your opinion of me, I am retired, rarely have deadlines to meet, and if I am travelling to an airport or cruise port beyond the local one usually travel the day before departure.
Today's saga, all day to fix a barrier, including rush hour, on a two lane motorway. Not the police, lack of repair resources?
www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/u/one-lane-of-m8-westbound-to-be-closed-all-day-after-crash.1392301386
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 11 Dec 14 at 13:39
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Could it just be that it takes that long to locate deliver parts, carry out task in a way that's safe for the workforce and perhaps allow concrete to set?
My experience of recent closures of the M1 (J22 last month, J19 earlier in week) is that diversions are rapidly set up and shown on the gantries many, many miles in advance. During the J22 incident ( fatal pile up) traffic for north was diverted via M6>M42 to regain M1 at 23A.
We now have an expectation when somebody is killed that there will always be a full investigation. Easy enough to say somebody else's nearest and dearest should be swept up and hosed down asap.
What if it was your wife/husband or child?
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>> We now have an expectation when somebody is killed that there will always be a
>> full investigation. Easy enough to say somebody else's nearest and dearest should be swept up
>> and hosed down asap.
Didn't use to be that way of course, quite a few in my family/friends coppers or ex, main aim was to get traffic moving again. Speaking to them that were in a while back (WP's time or earlier) the general thought was that very few people set off from home with the aim of killing or injuring someone and that nearly all accidents were just one of those things.
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Part of the issue , as ON, BobbyG et al are probably aware, is that the Central Scotland motorways including the M8 at Edinburgh & the Glasgow urban stramash, make parts of the M25 look like a picnic in terms of congestion and the lack of sensible alternative routes, which makes closures etc even more of a pain than it can be elsewhere.
Last edited by: commerdriver on Thu 11 Dec 14 at 14:13
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I think that is one of the causes of the frustration, low numbers of mways and truck roads in the UK. Means they are at max capacity day in day out, a small bump then soon causes a big delay quickly, couple that with few alternatives.
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>>all day to fix a barrier, including rush hour, on a two lane motorway. Not the police, lack of repair resources?
<<
Or a safety issue?
Would you want to work on the central reservation barriers or even the hard shoulder without a lane coned off either side? I wouldn't.
Pat
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I know why, Pat. But why all day including rush period? All you need is a lorry with a hiab to drop some concrete blocks in the gap as a temporary measure and then shut it for a proper repair overnight. Unfortunately that requires a little thought, planning, and paying a little overtime.
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One of my best mates got killed working on the M4 some 14 years ago. A complete P ratt in a 'borrowed' Porsche took him out. Lost his life, a leg travelled some distance along the motorway. A fine mess. I wouldn't work on a motorway for all the tea in China.
I also would not stop for Plod on the hard shoulder either and I would drive to the next exit and then stop at the top/bottom of the ramp.
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>> and then shut it for a proper repair overnight<<
Distribution and logistics is now a full 24 hour operation and the bane of a night drivers life is road closures.
Transport planners can't plan the next days timed deliveries because of the impossible diversions posted hastily with no thought to weight limits or height restrictions.
Asking for it to all be done at night is a bit NIMBY, I'm afraid.
Pat
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It's a shame that we don't use our rivers to carry more cargo instead of motorways.
The way it is going and I might not see it, all will grind to a halt in future on our roadsystems.
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>> >> and then shut it for a proper repair overnight<<
>
>> Asking for it to all be done at night is a bit NIMBY, I'm afraid.
>>
>> Pat
>>
I meant shut the lane not the whole road. :)
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>>I meant shut the lane not the whole road. :)<<
Well, why didn't you say so then? :)
As an aside I really don't think people realise just how busy our roads are at night.
We left Ashford at 2am on Tuesday morning and the M20 was just as busy as it is in the rush hour, there were queues at the Dartford tunnel and the M25 was a nightmare.
Pat
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Using a HIAB on an operational motorway requires lane closures to protect workforce and the public. Maybe other issues with working method as well Another question is whether there are concrete blocks approved as crash barrier substitutes. Because if they're not up to snuff and somebody is killed/injured as a consequence then there's a liability issue.
But going through those sort of potential risks takes thought and planning (which might also cost in overtime).
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There may not be one available close to the accident but traffic upto that site can be sent back to a previous exit slip.
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NZ now suffers the same accident management approach as the UK. One of the worst ever jams in Auckland last Saturday after a crash on the harbour bridge. The authorities kept the road closed for around 4 hours whilst they inspected the site...
Aside, most accidents here happen when a car leaves the road altogether. Sometimes passing traffic doesn't know anything is amiss until they find the crumpled car and hopefully a survivor 2 or 3 days later buried in the bush...
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New Zealand way of freeing Mway traffic . - Old Navy
