M25 'multiple collision' near Waltham Abbey leaves one dead
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-30391284
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You know it's strange, but some days feel more dangerous on the roads than others for no explicable reason. Almost as if an aggressive crowd mentality universally takes over.
At various times yesterday, I was on the M6, M1, M40, M4 and M25. At other times I was in central London.
Some days, despite it being busy, the whole thing seems to flow well enough but yesterday it felt like there was a sort of pervading anxiety/aggresion out there. Tailgating, unannounced and dangerously close lane hopping were commonplace. People getting angry with one another, undertaking etc, horns being sounded in reprimand ( I hate to see that, does no good at all )
I just try to keep out of it and try at least to keep some space between me and the "others"
But some days, you can just tell it's all going to end in tears for someone, while others seem much calmer.
Weird really.
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>>Tailgating, unannounced and dangerously close lane hopping were commonplace.
Don't you find tailgating a very peculiar way to drive?
It seems to be some kind of arrogance about the tailgaters right and desperate need to be in front, but the threat seems to be "get out of my way or I will damage our cars and it'll all be my fault and I will have to pay".
I don't like the "dangerously close lane hopping", but tailgating seems particularly dumb.
.*********
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>>.*********
Not sure what I said there which got filtered.....
Something about tailgating being a counter productive tactic for the tailgater since all I do is slow down to reduce the danger and wait for the idiot to go away.
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I sometimes wonder if the tailgaters are in some sort of trance. I had one the other day, emptyish M60, inside lane at 60 mph and I could only see his screen. I slowed as well but he stuck with me. A couple of flashes on the hazards saw him pull back some distance but he didn't overtake , nor did he take the next slip...where I was going.
It was something little and budget......a Micra perhaps. Would have been in a mess if he'd impaled it on the GV's towbar !
Nowt so strange....etc.
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The other notable sight yesterday ( as with most days sadly ) and I'm going to be accused of all manner of isms here but it's just a fact, were the number of in particular, young women in 1 series BMWs and VW Golfs attempting to negotiate busy motorways while peering at and thumbing their smartphones.
Loads of near misses I'd attribute to this sub culture especially in the stop start traffic.
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>> The other notable sight yesterday were
>> the number of in particular, young women in 1 series BMWs and VW Golfs attempting
>> to negotiate busy motorways while peering at and thumbing their smartphones.
>>
That and tiredness/falling asleep at the wheel must account for a lot of motorway crashes (not accidents) I reckon. When an effective 'doziness-ometer' can be made I think it will make a considerable contribution to road safety (to mis-quote a former policeman in an old Dunlop tyre ad). :-)
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"Nowt so strange....etc."
Perhaps tucking in behind your slipstream increases his mpg? A bit of a tow?
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>>
>> I sometimes wonder if the tailgaters are in some sort of trance.
Might be.
My drive to work is about 45 miles cross country. I cam up on a van tailgating a lorry, making no attempt to get past.
He gave me a huge flash of the lights/horn when I dared to overtake him, and slot in between him and the lorry - to be fair, I had to make the space. 1 minute later I was past the lorry and gone.
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I came up on a van tailgating a lorry, making no attempt to get past.
He gave me a huge flash of the lights/horn when I dared to overtake him, and slot in between him and the lorry - to be fair, I had to make the space. 1 minute later I was past the lorry and gone.
Forgive me if I'm misreading your brief description, Tigger, but you saw that the van was already in what should have been the space behind the lorry, then forced your way into a gap that wasn't there and were surprised that the van driver wasn't impressed? Couldn't you have treated van and lorry as a single vehicle and overtaken both?
As it was, did you set out to overtake the van knowing that you'd have to force your way in between it and the lorry because you could see there wasn't time to overtake both - or, in other words with no certain way of getting back to the safe side of the road?
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Reads like that to me too WDB. But if he was then tucked in behind the lorry, tigger could not be seen by the lorry and had poor or no visibility to overtake the lorry. Better to drop back a bit from the van and overtake both surely - when safe to do so.
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>> Don't you find tailgating a very peculiar way to drive?
>>
Yes, you don't go any faster and can see less of the road ahead. While I was in Norway recently I noticed that the distance between vehicles was huge by UK standards. OK the roads were snow covered but everything was on studded tyres but even where the snow had worn away the gaps were big.
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When I'm tailgated I'll get out of the way when safe to do so and it does not mean I have to slow down. I don't understand the mentality. You let them past and they accelerate up to the car that was in front of you... and then make no more progress.
I always maintain a decent gap in front which some people must think is wrong as they then try to get into the gap. You then just have to drop back a bit more to open up the gap again.
What really baffles me is how these drivers think they can be safe driving so close. Sometimes there will be a long line of cars all travelling close to each other. When that happens I'll not even be in their lane. All it takes is a stupid mistake by the front driver and there's your pileup. And we all know that does happen.
I've mentioned a few accidents on here recently that happened just up ahead. Luckily no tailgaters approaching otherwise a big accident would have happened.
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>> What really baffles me is how these drivers think they can be safe driving so
>> close.
Because 99.999% of the time the mistake goes unpunished, which reinforces the implied belief that it's safe, or normal.
Also, most tailgaters can actually see beyond the vehicle in front, consciously or unconsciously; often the driver is higher (lorry, can or large SUV) and can see over the top, or positioned to the right (keeping right yourself in lane 3 often causes them to back off a bit, but might increase the chance of them hitting you!)
Only this morning I stopped and waved Range Rover past, before setting off again behind it.
She had caught me up at the entrance to the village and followed at a car's length, up with which I will not put. Not aggressively I think, just because she could and didn't see any reason not to.
I was driving the Skoda Popemobile, which seems to attract more of this than the Outlander.
Often not much you can do about tailgatingon motorways, other than add what should be their safety zone to your own.
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>> >>Tailgating, unannounced and dangerously close lane hopping were commonplace.
>>
>> Don't you find tailgating a very peculiar way to drive?
>>
>> It seems to be some kind of arrogance about the tailgaters right and desperate need
>> to be in front, but the threat seems to be "get out of my way
>> or I will damage our cars and it'll all be my fault and I will
>> have to pay".
Its more about territory than wanting to be in front of the car in front. Its a case of "I have made it out here to the outside lane, I dont want anyone getting into the space between me and the car in front, I am not going to be pushed backwards, Its my SPACE - MINE YOU HEAR -MY SPACE
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Dec 14 at 13:29
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>> It seems to be some kind of arrogance about the tailgaters right and desperate need to
>> be in front, but the threat seems to be "get out of my way or I will damage our cars and
>> it'll all be my fault and I will have to pay".
I find that drifting slightly right onto the rumble strip throws up a satisfying shower of gravel that provides an excellent motivation to the tailgater to back off slightly.
I can understand why some people do tailgate - the prat sitting at 65 mph in lane 3 with the two inside lanes empty, for example - but consider in those circumstances that it's far safer to pull back to lane one and pass carefully on the inside with a lane between the two vehicles.
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>> the prat sitting at 65 mph in lane 3 with the two inside lanes empty, for example
But why do people care about that stuff? Like the hugely demonstrative swerve out from lane 1 to lane 3 and then dramatic move back again.
Why do people bother? Its just road rage of another type.
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>> But why do people care about that stuff?
To know it happens - to expect it - is one thing. But not to care about it is another, a vacant attitude in my book. If you don't care that wallies get in the way and radically reduce elegant traffic flow, you're half dead and obviously a really rubbish driver.
Of course you have to contain it. Crazed demonstrations of disapproval are silly.
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>> But why do people care about that stuff? Like the hugely demonstrative swerve out from
>> lane 1 to lane 3 and then dramatic move back again.
>>
>> Why do people bother?
A few reasons:
1. I've often come across a mile or more of congestion behind a middle lane blocker. The blocker is completely oblivious (or doesn't care)
2. They often think they're doing 60, but are actually doing about 55.
3. When I'm towing a trailer, I'm not allowed to use lane 3. I can flash all I like but they'll never move over - they clearly don't know the highway code, as they're expecting me to go around them.
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>> But some days, you can just tell it's all going to end in tears for
>> someone, while others seem much calmer.
>>
>> Weird really.
Full moon about now, and there was a solar hit as well....some say there's no correlation, but there's plenty of circumstantial evidence to support a link!!
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Goodness knows the reason Richard but some days do definitely "feel" different on the roads. I suppose we humans do react to stimuli we've long forgotten. Weather, atmospheric pressure, temperature maybe. I really don't know but I do see like I mentioned earlier an almost crowd style shift of mood.
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>> an almost crowd style shift of mood.
Yes... everything's going fine, then somehow everyone starts to cock up in a variety of ways. My strong impression, gained over five decades, is that bad, jerky, unpredictable mimser-style driving is infectious. One or two of those on the road can turn a good day into a thoroughly annoying and frustrating one.
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>> At various times yesterday, I was on the M6, M1, M40, M4 and M25. At
>> other times I was in central London.
>>
>> Some days, despite it being busy, the whole thing seems to flow well enough but
>> yesterday it felt like there was a sort of pervading anxiety/aggresion out there. Tailgating, unannounced
>> and dangerously close lane hopping were commonplace. People getting angry with one another, undertaking etc,
>> horns being sounded in reprimand ( I hate to see that, does no good at
>> all )
>>
That's interesting - yesterday I did M6, M5, M42, M40, A34, M27 - meeting, then - A3M (first time ever) M25, M40, M5, M6.
Didn't have a single incident the whole trip, which is unheard of. No emergency braking, no horn blowing, nothing chipping the windscreen etc.
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Slightly off topic but I wonder what our fascination is with posting links to accidents on this forum and then reading the seemingly endless post after post of speculation and counter speculation as to how it happened?
I'm not saying its right or wrong to do so - I am merely curious as to why we do it.
s'funny old world.
Perhaps we get a detached sense of superiority knowing we are not involved or affected by the outcome.
Perhaps its a form of remote rubber-necking?
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I was thinking this morning on my regular drive about what is it about the kind of driver who has to tailgate, often combined I think on an ordinary road with driving with offside wheels firmly planted just on the wrong side of the white line.
I concluded that although there are a few who simply compulsively tailgate and have no intention of overtaking even when an opportunity presents, for most it is a statement that they would like to overtake, they would overtake, if only this insignificant idiot wasn't in front of him.
A classic one this morning. He drove about ten feet behind me for several miles, as I kept pace with the general flow of traffic. Then he suddenly served out and overtook, earning flashed lights from an oncoming driver, and then tailgated the next car in the queue for the rest of the 20 mile journey.
At the final roundabout I pulled alongside him as he took a different turning.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-30391284
same as original link but added A120 crash.
One very lucky escape !
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I'd seen the link earlier today so thought I knew what was coming when I clicked on it again.
But no. My blood ran cold when I got to the penultimate photo.
It must have taken some time to get her out of there. Hope she recovers.
Not a good advert for Colchester Skip Hire.
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I find in heavy traffic you can often make steadier progress in lane 1, but being stuck between a couple of trucks always concerns me. Maybe it's better just to stick with lane 3.
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>> I find in heavy traffic you can often make steadier progress in lane 1, but
>> being stuck between a couple of trucks always concerns me. Maybe it's better just to
>> stick with lane 3.
>>
Indeed, I'd rather get 2 ton of Beemer up me rear end at 70 mph than 44 ton of Scania at 50 mph.
Having said that I'm mostly in lane 1 in heavy motorway traffic, but try and keep at least one car or van between me and any HGVs behind.
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>> I'd rather get 2 ton of Beemer up me rear end at 70 mph than 44 ton of Scania at 50 mph.
Yes, but both are to be avoided if possible.
Sandwiched tight between big trucks at 50-plus in lane 1 is one of a number of classic potential worst-scenario danger situations. In a slow vehicle you are robbed of choice, but in a reasonably brisk one you should use all three lanes fluidly to maintain your chosen rate and protect your little pink bum, as far as possible so therefore often not very far.
The sort of thing I mean is that for example, a tailgater means leaving a long gap in front to minimize any potential need for hard braking. Commonsense, shudder, it's been rehearsed here over and over.
Vastly increased traffic volumes and poor driving by subverted, infantilized, treacherous modern drivers have made all roads more hazardous in my lifetime. You used to be able to jump in a hired Transit and melt the engine on the M1 trying to beat your own record to Birmingham and back. Those were the days. You can't trust these modern carphounds.
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>> classic potential worst-scenario danger situations
There are a lot of these, far too many to catalogue. After years of getting away with gung-ho not to say reckless driving, those danger situations are very often felt in the scalp crawling a good couple of tenths of a second before the analysis presents itself intellectually.
Useful thing, a misspent youth. A very prompt instinctive sense of danger keeps the driver on top in relaxed middle-aged wafting, helps to keep it really relaxed. If you see what I mean.
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>> Not a good advert for Colchester Skip Hire.
So the skip lorry shunted her all the way under the back of the truck? Thought all trailers now had an anti dive board at the back?
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They do, but they are only any use up to a point. Hitting the car that hard you can just see the cowcatcher strut, as we call it where the cars passenger footwell would have been.
It's a whitish piece of metal about 3' long.
Pat
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One very lucky lady to have got out of that one alive, my sick sense of humour hopes she's got a Lottery ticket for this weekend.
I was sitting a massive queue on the A130 this morning, part of the knock on from the M25 incident and a lane closure on the A12, when the first report of this came on the radio.
Unusually in the next bulletin several minutes later the Police control were being interviewed and had already declared it a 'fatal'. Two bulletins later he said that the fire crews had 'heard signs of life from the vehicle' while cutting the car out and were now carrying out a rescue and it was no longer being treated as a fatal accident.
Just hope that she makes a full recovery, but for the Grace of God........
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They do say it's an ill wind....
We were in a hotel at Cheriton last night after getting off the shuttle and when we booked in around 4.30 there was a problem opening the door to our room.
The staff were charming and helpful and moved us to the room opposite but that proved to be a disaster.
As soon as we went in we noticed how cold it was but turned the heat up high and went out for a quick meal as we'd had an early appointment at Addenbrookes that morning.
Thinking it would be toastie when we got back thoughts of a good nights sleep were uppermost but the room was still cold.
We turned the heat up some more but nothing happened and at 1.30am we gave up and decided to make a coffee...the kettle didn't work!
Us both being early risers the thought of the heated seats in the V70 were by then looking very attractive so we decided to check out and head home.
We left at 2am and picked a coffee up at Maidstone Services after seeing signs the M25 was closed after the M11.
It was a good, but busy journey home with all the diverted traffic and no grit on the roads after the A14 but we walked in the house at 5.30am.
It was only then we learned why the M25 was closed and listened to the traffic news throughout the morning.
Had we have had breakfast at 6am as we'd intended then I suspect we wouldn't be home yet.
I rang the hotel to complain this morning and to be fair, the replacement room was 'out of use' and the heat was turned off at their control panel. They were most apologetic that no-one thought to turn it on but did explain that there are two staff on duty all night and there is a phone by our bed for us to ring reception....
I explained that some people just don't like to complain!
We will go back again:)
Pat
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Behind the wheel of a works skip lorry under influence of drink or drugs?? Bet you that employer may take a look at breath testing employees?
Wonder if VW will try and get some good PR out of this?
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>> Wonder if VW will try and get some good PR out of this?
They tend not to. Not with real accidents.
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>> Wonder if VW will try and get some good PR out of this?
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Really? The bits of the car that were impacted (the top half) are all but destroyed.
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>> >> Wonder if VW will try and get some good PR out of this?
>> >>
>> Really? The bits of the car that were impacted (the top half) are all but
>> destroyed.
>>
More importantly the driver received (relatively) minor injuries.
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>> More importantly the driver received (relatively) minor injuries.
By any rational analysis injuries (reported as broken arm and scalp laceration) which she will recover from in months are at worst moderate.
For stats purposes though she's KSI - killed or seriously injured. Even without the broken bone an overnight stay in hospital would place her in that category.
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>> More importantly the driver received (relatively) minor injuries.
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Sure - but most people looking at it would think that was down to luck, not the car.
Obviously can only guess but might have been very different if both front seats had been occupied.
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At one time I was in an accident and escaped with what was termed "minor cuts and bruises".
Don't get me wrong, I was lucky and happy to be so; however I was in agony for weeks. I couldn't move, I kept trying to do those "special" coughs, you know the ones where you cough and then try to lean after it to stop all your ribs hurting, back hurt, neck hurt, arms hurt. Everything hurt.
Now I am assuming that "minor injuries" is worse than "minor cuts and bruises", so whilst the woman is lucky and no doubt grateful to be alive, I bet she's in absolute agony.
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M25 'multiple collision' Closed! one dead - Runfer D'Hills
