Colleague is getting a manual car for the first time in a long while after a series of autos.
He is asking me how the cruise control works when you hit a hill as on his autos it would automatically change down gear. He tows a boat thus he probably needs to do more gear changes on motorways etc than the rest of us would need to.
In all my years of driving manuals with cruise I have never encountered this?
So what happens if hit a steep hill, would car just eventually stall or does cruise automatically come off? I know in my own car you can't set cruise below a certain limit but if you are cruising at say 60mph and the car can't keep that speed in top gear, then what??
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Cruise is very often a nuisance, more trouble than it's worth under most circumstances. It simply doesn't drive as well as you do, except on sweeping, essentially flat roads. I don't know what could induce anyone to persist in trying to use it up steep hills when towing a caravan or boat, or downhill either. Seems barmy to me.
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You still need to change gear if required since it cannot do that for you in a manual. In some cars this will cancel the cruise control.
I am a convert I like cruise control and use it a lot but you have to be aware of the limits.
My current car has adaptive cruise so slows when the traffic in front slows and can actually apply the brakes to slow if it needs to.
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>> Cruise is very often a nuisance, more trouble than it's worth under most circumstances. It
>> simply doesn't drive as well as you do, except on sweeping, essentially flat roads. I
>> don't know what could induce anyone to persist in trying to use it up steep
>> hills when towing a caravan or boat, or downhill either. Seems barmy to me.
Depends how you use it and how often. Like many tasks in driving, it's about learned behaviour. If you had to think about all the actions in changing gear, it would be an unacceptable annoyance, but it becomes one action with practice, and we never think about it.
I drive manual and use cruise all the time just to set a speed (usually a limit). It's almost as automatic as steering, braking etc if you do it all the time.
I use it less when towing, but on motorways when I use 5th rather than 6th anyway at <=60mph with the extra 1200kg on the back it can be a relaxed way to eat the miles, thumb on button to adjust speed by an mph or two - like a hand throttle really.
If it needs a gear change, I make one and then press resume, if I want to. Ultimately it would use full throttle to try and maintain speed I suppose, and eventually disengage or labour to self destruction but only an idiot would let it try.
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If it can't maintain the speed selected you need to change down manually. Depressing the clutch will disengage CC.
Cruise control is designed to be used when you don't need to change gear i.e. Cruising in top gear on a motorway, not in the situation you envisage.
Personally I think CC is a completely unnecessary and even undesirable in 99% of driving on UK roads. I have it in my manual Golf but never use it.
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>> Personally I think CC is a completely unnecessary and even undesirable in 99% of driving
>> on UK roads. I have it in my manual Golf but never use it.
We are poles apart on this one. If you have no use for it, then ignore it of course.
To me, it is just a tool that I can use to do what I want. I suspect very few use it this way, and I probably wouldn't but for the law's obsession with speed limits.
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>> >> Personally I think CC is a completely unnecessary and even undesirable in 99% of
>> driving
>> >> on UK roads. I have it in my manual Golf but never use it.
>>
>> We are poles apart on this one.
I am in your pole, I love cruise, needs to be a good one and the VW one is as good as any. Accelerate to the speed you want, and then on motorways nudge it up and down in 1mph increments to maintain progress and gaps. Heaven. Those who moan about it can't use it properly.
And yes use of the clutch will knock the cruise off.
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>> I am in your pole, I love cruise, needs to be a good one and
>> the VW one is as good as any.
Now I got the experience, including the ability to nudge 'auto pilot' speed up and down. But it was a toy; no real value on UK roads.
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Yes but how does it actually do anything that you can't do without it or save you any effort?
I can maintain a steady speed with my foot on the accelerator and adjust the speed up or down in 1mph increments just as you can with CC. I don't have any problems maintaining 50 mph in speed limited areas
The only other "benefit" is the ability to take your foot off the accelerator but since you have to put your foot somewhere for me it might as well be on the accelerator. Don't get cramp, don't have an issue
I have used CC on the autoroutes in France and don't have any problems using it, it just seems pointless to me and I gave up using it. On the current car I have never used it apart from a quick trial to make sure it worked whenI bought it.
Obviousl others I like it; it's just that its benefits are mystery to me.
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>> Yes but how does it actually do anything that you can't do without it or
>> save you any effort?
>>
>> I can maintain a steady speed with my foot on the accelerator and adjust the
>> speed up or down in 1mph increments just as you can with CC.
No you can't. Not in 1mph increments
Cruise control is all about what you can't do while you are performing wonders to behold with your right foot.
You can't exercise your ankle, you can't move your foot somewhere else, you can't lift you calf off the seat, loads of things you can't do.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 10 Dec 14 at 20:51
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If you can't increase your speed by1mph using your foot then I am surprised. What do you need to do with your right foot whilst driving? I really am at a loss to see what problem CC solves.
Puzzled of Norwich.
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>> If you can't increase your speed by1mph using your foot then I am surprised. What
>> do you need to do with your right foot whilst driving? I really am at
>> a loss to see what problem CC solves.
It does not solve a problem, any convenience device does not need to solve a problem. Its provides greater convenience.
And I still say that you can't increase or decrease a speed in 1mph increments using the accelerator. You are fooling yourself.
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it obviously provides greater convenience and control for you and I'm pleased you like it. It just doesn't do anything for me.
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>> It does not solve a problem, any convenience device does not need to solve a
>> problem. Its provides greater convenience.
Exactly, CC could be either of two improvements to the motoring experience; Cruise Control or Climate Control.
Both improve the experience but neither changes the fundamentals of getting from A2B.
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The CC on the Passat I had was more flexible than doing 1mph increments. Up/down on the stalk was 5mph increment/decrement. Pull towards you was resume and speed up in 1mph increments. The button at the end was set and also reduce speed.
On my Audi with capacity on demand, it will switch to 2 cylinder mode under light loads.... more likely to maintain the light load on CC. I know because I've compared it. Even at lower speeds too and not only motorways.
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>> No you can't. Not in 1mph increments
Yes you can, or as good as. What's so necessary about 1mph increments anyway?
It's that very thing actually, the constant urge to nudge the speed up or down with the hand CC control, that finally put me off the thing. It's just fiddly, something quite unnecessary to fiddle with.
In fact CC is what they call one of the 'toys' on lavishly-equipped jalopies. That's what it is really, a toy, seldom any better than the usual hands and feet.
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>> Personally I think CC is a completely unnecessary and even undesirable in 99% of driving
>> on UK roads. I have it in my manual Golf but never use it.
>>
It is a bit of a Marmite device, people either love it or hate it, I have been a fan for years, have had cruise on my cars since 2002. The latest adaptive CC on my Golf GTD is a truly wonderful device on long motorway runs, slowing down as the traffic in front slows and the gap starts to close and either speeding up itself or with a bit of right foot to speed up quicker when the gaps widen.
Only downside was the extra cost/time required for repair when a numpty in a white van backed into my front end a few months ago, to "re align the radar".
Interestingly, it's the first cruise control I have had which doesn't cancel itself when you change gear.
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The early MK I Focus Ghia manual that my son had, to my surprise, came with CC.
I used to deploy it on the M40 to Oxford but needed to go manual up the hill on the return leg.
No use to me in an urban situation.
>>The latest adaptive CC on my Golf GTD is a truly wonderful device on long motorway runs,
>> slowing down as the traffic in front slows and the gap starts to close and either speeding up
>> itself or with a bit of right foot to speed up quicker when the gaps widen.
That really seems useful. Next time I want one !
My X type has a little wheel on top of the steering wheel spoke, under my right thumb, to adjust the CC speed. I use that on the M Way for small speed adjustments ( a thumb throttle ?) .
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The early MK I Focus Ghia manual that my son had, to my surprise, came with CC.
I used to deploy it on the M40 to Oxford but needed to go manual up the hill on the return leg.
No use to me in an urban situation.
>>The latest adaptive CC on my Golf GTD is a truly wonderful device on long motorway runs,
>> slowing down as the traffic in front slows and the gap starts to close and either speeding up
>> itself or with a bit of right foot to speed up quicker when the gaps widen.
That really seems useful. Next time I want one !
My X type has a little wheel on top of the steering wheel spoke, under my right thumb, to adjust the CC speed. I use that on the M Way for small speed adjustments ( a thumb throttle ?) .
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It disengages when you press the clutch but, having changed from 5th to 4th say, you can immediately press "Resume" and continue at the previously selected speed in the lower gear, in my Ford at least.
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>> If it can't maintain the speed selected you need to change down manually. Depressing the
>> clutch will disengage CC.
>>
I sure it doesn't in wife's Jazz - I use it (CC) when driving into town through a 40MPH limit on slight uphill A road. The car will happily do it in 5th but as the slope steepens I'll change down to 4th for mechanical sympathy more than anything else and CC stays engaged.
I don't know if it would drop out at some point - the car often nags (with a little light) you to be in a higher gear then feels comfortable.
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>> >> If it can't maintain the speed selected you need to change down manually. Depressing
>> the
>> >> clutch will disengage CC.
>> >>
>>
>> I sure it doesn't in wife's Jazz -
Tried it today and I got that wrong - touch the clutch and cc drops out.
It does stay engaged on my auto Merc if I manually nudge it down a gear.
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My Mazda 6 has cruise control and a 6 speed box, i have to change down when i go up telegraph hill (Exeter) if not the engine starts to labour and i would imagine eventually stall if left in 6th.
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Never use it South of Preston or North of Calais. Very handy elsewhere other than in urban areas of course.
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Same here never found it that much use in this country. Had it on a few hire cars, only found it useful out in the US. Too much stop start to get the best out of it.
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>>Same here never found it that much use in this country
Oh I use it loads. Motorways, A-Roads, through roadworks / cameras, etc. etc. Pretty much anytime where I am going to be maintaining a reasonably constant speed for any length of time.
Although it had never occurred to me until now that I had never had cruise control on a manual. But then, as has been said, if its an environment where you need to change gear, its probably not a time to be using cruise control.
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Trouble with CC is when you come up behind some dozy white van driver in lane three, give him the full retina burner treatment with the Xenons, wait for him to scratch himself, light his fag, eventually notice you are there, decide to be a complete twonk and make you wait while he tries to blow his cylinder head off for another half mile and then finally moves over, you can't really then just cruise past 5 mph faster can you?
No, you have to snick it into "S" and floor it to make sure he realises he's just not cutting it with the big boys don't you. It's for his own good and they do generally thank you for it by waving out of the window at you and giving you a little flash of the lights in gratitude...
Salt of the earth these guys most of them.
;-)
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>> Trouble with CC is when you come up behind some dozy white van driver in
>> lane three,
I just assume he's in a queue and pass him on the left. ;)
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Depends on the time of day of course, but I use cruise quite often on A and B roads. Mainly because of W Sussexs annoying habit of turning what were 30mph roads through villages and 60mph for the rest into a constant 30/40/50/40/30 wave of changing speed limits. I can accelerate and brake using the CC control, and be confident of not being caught by a speed camera. Does it make me safer drive, no. But speed kills doesn't it... ;-)
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>> Never use it South of Preston or North of Calais. Very handy elsewhere other than
>> in urban areas of course.
I find it most useful in urban areas. Endless trundling at 30mph. If I am baulked, or have to disengage for a stop/hazard, I just resume when I am on my way again.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 10 Dec 14 at 14:14
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I use it all the time, as often as possible. It's a habit, I don't think about it just switch it on when I leave the house and set it when needed. I love it when the LS changes down on cruise - very rare as Poland is pancake-flat till you hit the mountains - but it takes me by surprise and pushes me against the seat. It makes me think 'is somebody else driving this?'.
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I use it every journey. - love it. Also use it as a speed limiter zones as it keeps me pegged to these 'modern' low limits.
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I hate it, although I don't mind it being on the car. It's a mechanical mimser and I drive far better than it does.
Driving should be fluid, not rigid like a newly qualified wimp driver. It's more elegant and more economical like that. The aesthetic component is more important than people think.
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Not got it in either of our cars but it was on friend's Passatt I drove while supporting their JoGLE ride in July. Bit of fun on a sweeping Scottish trunk road or that B road that provides a non m/way route alongside the M74 but don't feel need for it otherwise.
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I don't hate it AC, but I do only very rarely use it. Like you, I tend to want to retain as much input as possible most of the time. On long holiday hauls down through France though, it can relieve your ankle a bit and indeed it sort of works in those circumstances. Hacking round the M25 on a wet Monday morning it's of no interest to me.
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I've had CC on all my cars since 1999. I used it a lot on the Golf GTI and Passat. But then the design was simple and easy to use without looking. Then I got a Mondeo and I hardly used it because of the use of buttons on the steering wheel. Mazda6 also used buttons but a little more ergonomic in design so I used it a little more. The Passat CC had a separate stalk for CC which again made use easy and I used it more. Similar setup in the A3.
On all of the cars with CC that were manual, dipping the clutch disengaged CC. But easy to resume previous set speed (well maybe not on the Mondeo without looking at the buttons!).
I decided not to get the adaptive CC on the A3. It wasn't expensive but I don't think I'd like it. It could be used for 0mph to 100mph on the S-Tronic cars. So could be used in stop start traffic for example.
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Have had a couple of manual cars with cruise control (1989 300ZX and the Swift Sport) - both had enough pull to not really need a down change, but then neither was used as a tow car.
The manuals usually tell you that CC will disengage if the car's speed drops 5 or 6mph below the set speed (eg going up too steep a hill... or if you've just crashed!)
I remember the ZX was explicit in advising you not to take it out of gear without dipping the clutch as the CC would not disengage and the car would rev its nuts off in neutral trying to accelerate (or words to that effect).
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Don't you mean wafting around the M25?
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>> I don't hate it AC, but I do only very rarely use it.
I suppose 'hate' is an overstatement. It's just an innocent mechanism after all, kindly provided for our convenience and amusement.
I agree it can be all right on fairly clear continental roads, not so much in hilly country though. You can use it to keep those pesky foreign speed-fuzz off your back.
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>> It makes me think 'is somebody else driving this?'.
Let me guess, you also put a tourniquet around your arm til it goes numb so it feels like someone else's hand?
;-)
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As I live North of Preston I use CC a lot, it even works South of civilisation if the traffic is moving. Like many things, once you become familiar with its use it is easy and the more you use it.
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Cruise is most useful for maintaining a satnav accurate 50 mph in motorway roadworks, for the safety of the workforce. Its quite amusing to overtake and reovertake the same car several times as their speed varies.
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"Let me guess, you also put a tourniquet around your arm til it goes numb so it feels like someone else's hand?"
Only in an automatic...
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Had cruise control on my Hyundai Coupe; tried it a few times, ended up disliking it.
Use it on my lorry all the time. According to the new gospel of driving HGV's for maximum fuel efficiency (probably initiated and developed by people who have never driven anything more challenging than a desk) it seems to have been decided that the traditional floor pedals for accelerating and slowing the vehicle, which have served us well for over a century, are now virtually redundant. The new religion is to piddle about constantly adjusting steering wheel buttons to achieve "constant speed", which is a damn sight more difficult than you might think on a laden lorry negotiating an undulating A road. Factor into the mix a zero tolerance of speeding and then wonder why that lorry in front is piddling about at between 30 - 35 mph when he could be doing 40.
Our driver trainer was bleating this into my earhole all day Monday; as I said to him it's a lorry not a blasted Playstation. Went straight over his head, as the lorry would have done that evening had he tripped over in the yard!
Bah,, grrrrr........ and breathe.
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Can only advise on the system in the Insignia (which is radar assisted).
Traffic speed reduces below minimum speed for current gear - indication on dash asking you to change down. Cruise remains engaged while clutch depressed and engine speed matched to ensure smooth downshift.
If you do nothing, the cruise will disengage at about 800 rpm with a continuous repetitive chime to remind you that it's your turn to drive. If you keep your foot on the clutch / or down shift appropriately, cruise control disengages at about 5mph.
Steep hills will, I imagine, cause the speed to drop to the point where a downshift is requested and life continues as normal.
So the upshot of this is that everything is different and he'd need to try it.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Wed 10 Dec 14 at 22:38
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I can't see a use for it at all, either in a lorry or a car, and never use it.
HM has described the problems well in a lorry and all I can add to that is IMHO, it is the reason for a lot of drivers falling asleep on long motorway runs and the single vehicle HGV accidents we see so many of now.
Ian uses it all the time in the V70 and I can tell from the passenger seat as soon as it's being used.
I've read the advantages above by so many who use it to maintain speed in built up area and road works but for me, they are hazards where I need to be more aware than normal and that means me driving the car and choosing probably, 25mph instead of 30mph instantly, and without conscious thought.
On motorways you can watch drivers on CC gaining on the car in front while waiting to pull out and overtake. They get nearer and nearer and there is a reluctance to knock it down a click to maintain a gap.
If I need to waggle my right foot, I'll stop and get out for a wander and a coffee.
Pat
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Exactly, Pat: cruise is for situations that require less driver involvement, not more. Using it in 30 limits is just wrong; some cars (one of mine included) have a limiter function that can be useful there, or in variable motorway limits but, in general, reduced limits are there because of a hazard, and setting the car to plough on regardless is not good driving.
Nor is using it on busy motorways. As Pat says, it takes away the fine control of position that you need in heavy traffic. The driver in lane 2 who rolls up into your offside blind spot and sticks there is using cruise; he shouldn't be.
I do use CC in both cars, even in the UK, but my rule of thumb is to turn it off if I have to overtake more than one other vehicle. As for climbing hills, the manual S60 will cut off cruise at a touch of clutch or brake, but I can't think of a cruise situation (including that hill on the M40) where I'd need to change down anyway. I suspect that merely asking the question implies that Bobby's colleague is a cruise abuser.
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Horses for courses, but I sometimes find that using cruise control makes look further ahead and anticipate better. The challenge is to adjust the speed using the steering controls rather than disengage CC or, god forbid, actually have to brake. That means I've not anticipated the road ahead well enough!
And given that the throttle is drive-by-wire anyway, is there really much difference if it's hand operated not foot ;-)
Edited as the iPad seemed to have capitilised God ;-)
Last edited by: PeterS on Thu 11 Dec 14 at 07:57
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>> Can only advise on the system in the Insignia (which is radar assisted).
>>
Imagine how much that's going to cost to fix at 7 or 8 yrs old!
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>> >> Can only advise on the system in the Insignia (which is radar assisted).
>> >>
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>> Imagine how much that's going to cost to fix at 7 or 8 yrs old!
>>
It probably uses microwave cooker parts. :)
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>> Imagine how much that's going to cost to fix at 7 or 8 yrs old!
Just like every other modern car, the gadgets will eventually fail & cost more to fix than the car is worth so people will put up with them not working or change the car.
But no more reason why these should fail than any other gadget
My daughter summed it up recently when she went in a colleagues car, 3 years newer than her own, in which the central locking, one of the 2 electric windows, and the air conditioning all no longer worked.
My daughters car, a 1999 Golf didn't have electric windows, central locking or a/c to start with.
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My daughter's car, a 1999 Golf, didn't have electric windows, central locking or a/c to start with.
And my 2002 Volvo has all of the above, plus electric mirrors, heated seats, CD changer (I know - but it sounds good) - all still working like new. I bet BBD could say the same of his Lexus.
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The aircon and central locking on my Y2K Xantia were still working when it went to srappie in 2013. The blower fan went through a phase of only working at full pelt but righted itself after a few weeks.
Driver's window motor was replaced around 2007.
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Just spoken to daughter, colleague's car is a Fiat, 02 reg
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Radar cruise control is standard on all Golf MKVIIIs from SE trim upwards. So it must be fairly cheap. The radar function is also used for the auto brake function.
When I use CC, I also anticipate traffic and slow down/speed up using the CC controls.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 11 Dec 14 at 14:21
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Only used it once to my recollection. Chevrolet Harem van which I delivered from Liverpool Docks to Southampton Docks for onward transport to the Gulf. Ruddy big engine..5 litres ? Automatwatic as well ! That's wafting for you !
Left hooker, of course. Clipped a few centre islands on roundabouts on the way down. Still got a photo of the thing in my album.
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Very rarely use it.Sometimes in France on a nice long stretch of motor way.
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I've had it in several cars. It can be useful in rare circs, but tbh I find it more of a pain than a help.
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>> Radar cruise control is standard on all Golf MKVIIIs from SE trim upwards. So it
>> must be fairly cheap.
Everything is cheap to the manufacturer. Didn't someone price up a car built from spare parts years ago and it was 10x the car's list price?
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Cruise control on a manual car - Armel Coussine
