Just in time for Christmas a £65 fine for a yellow box offense in sunny Surbiton.
Or £130 mid January.
Yes the photos show my boot in the box!
Why my rant?
I was going straight through the box in lane two and some mimser two ahead decided to leave a cars length space in front of them. That screwed my "reasonable" anticipation of clearing the box . So the lights changed and I got zapped.
Too late to turn into the now free lane one.
Some jobsworth working to rule sends me the bill.
Yes Yes I know the regulations but I was obstructing nobody so it it really is a money making exercise not a traffic flow solution.
Worth appealing ?
Rant over.
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>>Worth appealing ?
I entirely agree with your sentiments.
But ultimately I suspect it will come down to "were you in the box or not?", not how reasonable or unreasonable your actions were.
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I read a report recently that emergency service drivers are saying that motorists are more reluctant to go into yellow boxes and bus lanes to assist their progress, I can guess why.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 16 Dec 14 at 13:11
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>> But ultimately I suspect it will come down to "were you in the box or
>> not?", not how reasonable or unreasonable your actions were.
However if the cost to you is a bit of time which you can afford, plus the cost of a stamp, then might as well - makes the thread more interesting :)
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Surbiton is, IIRC, Kingston and a London Borough. Appeals will therefore go to the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service. Worth having a look on their website and that of the Traffic Penalty Tribunal (though I'm not sure how much bus lane enforcement out of London is Council enforced) to see if you've got any latitude.
www.patas.gov.uk/
www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/
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>> Surbiton is, IIRC, Kingston and a London Borough. Appeals will therefore go to the Parking
>> and Traffic Appeals Service. Worth having a look on their website and that of the
>> Traffic Penalty Tribunal (though I'm not sure how much bus lane enforcement out of London
>> is Council enforced) to see if you've got any latitude.
>>
>> www.patas.gov.uk/
>>
>> www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/
>>
Bus lane enforcement should have course have read Box Junction
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Traffic penalties are slightly unusual amongst tribunals in that the decision at the first tier is final with no appeal (as there is in for example social security cases) to an 'Upper' tribunal. The legislator must have had the, in my view quite reasonable, view that this is a straightforward jurisdiction on a relatively inconsequential subject and that cost etc of a further appeal route was not needed.
The backstop though is that the tribunal has the power to 'review' its own decisions in certain limited circumstances.
There's an interesting case on the PATAS website where a panel of three Adjudicators dealt with applications for review in a number of cases involving box junctions. In at least some of them the facts seem pretty similar to those in the OP.
tinyurl.com/owrmcxh (Nb this opens as a MS Word document).
Don't think there's much comfort in them.
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"Rant over."
Don't 'rant over', dwell on it for a few months. Find out who it was who mimsed you and left you blocking the yellow box. Follow him through his daily commute until you know his routes and habits. Time it carefully so that you pull out in front of him and repeat this event daily until one day, you're in exactly the same place at the junction that he was a few months ago. Leave a couple of spaces in front of you, strand him in the yellow box, roll down the window and wave the pre-prepared A3 foamex banner saying 'Gotcha! Now how do YOU feel you mimsing pencil neck!'
I'll help you design the banner.
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You make a valid point. Everytime you make the decision to enter the yellow box it must be based on your exit being clear. There are two scenarios:
1. You wait on the approach until your exit is clear.
2. You make a judgement that there are X numbers of car lengths potentially available (providing the traffic keeps moving) on the other side so you keep going.
1. Is the safest (wallet) option but does nothing for increasing traffic flow or revenue streams.
Never be under any illusion that increasing traffic flow is a priority for traffic management. Just the opposite. They want us to get so frustrated, give up on the car and use alternative transport.
So in your defence / mitigation you want to know how much of the road the camera covers. If its just the tail of your car then you can say what you like. How do they know that there has not been a collision or a little old lady has collapsed on the road infront of you forcing you to stop. If however the camera covers a long queue of vehicles with you stuck on the tail end - yerr stuffed.
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>>
>> 1. You wait on the approach until your exit is clear.
That's me. Never trust another motorist to do anything.
"I thought you were going to ....." is a recipe for tears.
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I so want to give you 3,4 or even 5 thumbs for this.
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Henry Sir,
In all of my dealings with 'Authority', (Parking, Inland Rev' etc etc.) I write them a clear and concise, polite letter outlining the facts including the reasons why their 'reasoning' is not sound. I always copy in my MP. To date I have been successful in my intended desire to have the awforities see it my way.
However your anticipation of some numpty ("two ahead") closing the gap and allowing your vehicle in to the estimated space may not fulfil the requirements of a let off.
Just saying like.......
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Been in the same situation myself, Brixton road: goo.gl/maps/qY2XU
A box junction I'd been through a couple of times changed, so that a bus lane appeared immediately after reducing the two lanes to one. Someone nipped up the inside of me, leaving the choice of entering the new bus lane, or stopping on the edge of the yellow hatching. I chose the latter and got done.
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Challenge it. You have the time and inclination, and it will cost you nothing and cost them far more than they get from your fine if you loose.
I have just copped a parking ticket in a railway station. - they want 100 QUID! (50 if paid in 14 days)
I intend to take it all the way to the private parking appeals service. I'll appeal now and get it frozen at 50 quid anyhow.
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BBD, I understand your sentiments. I had an ex ex who nurtured such things. Bounced cheques and their ilk. It gave her the utmost satisfaction to get back at these people. Eventually. And believe me, she did. I thought it was all history, long forgotten, but then out of nowhere an opportunity arose. Thank goodness we parted on amicable terms.
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What's happening to the subject on this forum. I can only assume the £ sign is the cause this time.
Not quite the same but a while back I parked near a deli near us. I knew at the weekend and evenings it was permit only. I should have noticed the almost non-existent yellow lines but didn't.
As soon as the parking attendant appeared I went to the car (30 yards away) but they decided to issue a ticket. I know I was in the wrong but tried to reason etc. What annoyed me more was the nearby car parked right on the corner illegally. Not only double yellows but on the corner! They weren't going to ticket them because they hadn't been there for long enough. The car happened to be there before I arrived and long after too. I know because I went back (local to me) and still no ticket.
On the basis of not ticketing the other car.... I took photos of the other car and reported it. And the next day. And the next day. And the next day. It was illegally parked every day. And yet I got a ticket!
So I appealed the ticket and they agreed I didn't have to pay. The other car eventually stopped parking there too. I think it was more of a case of letting me off because of the other car though.
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>> What's happening to the subject on this forum. I can only assume the £ sign is the cause this time.
Yep, that'll be it. Certain characters throw a wobbly. It's been previously mentioned to the techy people.
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>> I intend to take it all the way to the private parking appeals service. I'll
>> appeal now and get it frozen at 50 quid anyhow.
>>
Keep us posted, Mr Zeddo. Blow by blow, please.
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"Keep us posted, Mr Zeddo. Blow by blow, please."
That'll cost him £50 each time too.
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>> I have just copped a parking ticket in a railway station. - they want 100
>> QUID! (50 if paid in 14 days)
Presumably you were only there long enough to film a train and cavilled at paying for the whole day? On the one hand you're banged to rights but on the other there's no way £50, never mind £100, is a genuine pre-estimate of the TOC's loss.
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>> Presumably you were only there long enough to film a train and cavilled at paying
>> for the whole day?
Correct,
>> On the one hand you're banged to rights
Correct, I never pay for parking at station when doing filming mostly it would make the hobby too expensive because they rarely offer the option for parking by the hour. One of the ground s I will use for appeal, along with poor bay markings, bad signage, etc etc etc You name it I will use it.
>>but on the
>> other there's no way £50, never mind £100, is a genuine pre-estimate of the TOC's
>> loss.
one of the others to use as well.
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If the car park is specifically for travellers then no legitimate traveller is likely to need short term parking. So be careful how you appeal as you may well lose at first hurdle if you were parking for another purpose. Assuming the car park was not full and you were not denying a traveller the chance to park then I don't think it's an issue , live and let live.
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most of the ones I use are signed for station users rather than for travellers
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.. wonderful example of encoding going steadily wrong. I blame the '£'.
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>>
>> >> Presumably you were only there long enough to film a train and cavilled at
>> paying
>> >> for the whole day?
>>
>> Correct
The French manage it OK. My car's at Dunkerque station - nearest car park to hotel. Cost me a couple of Euro for remainder of today and a few cents more to extend to 10:00 tomorrow.
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>> The French manage it OK. My car's at Dunkerque station - nearest car park to
>> hotel. Cost me a couple of Euro for remainder of today and a few cents
>> more to extend to 10:00 tomorrow.
The french would set fire to the station if they tried to rip them off. We do civil disobedience very badly in the UK.
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>> I have just copped a parking ticket in a railway station. - they want 100 QUID! (50 if paid in 14 days)
I never realised train spotting was such an expensive hobby.
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>> I never realised train spotting was such an expensive hobby.
It's now £10 a day on the station car park at Milton Keynes. Northampton's not far behind. Both are still rammed by 08:30 Tuesday to Thursday.
There are cheaper options though if you're prepared to walk for a few minutes.
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.. wonderful example of encoding going steadily wrong. I blame the '£'.
Well that's the answer. We will have to refer to quids as GBP.
Job done. No need to thank me.
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£65 yellow box fine Grrrr - No FM2R
