Hi all,
I am tempted by an E class,220CDI Avantgarde auto,advertised by a local Lexus main dealer.
It has 87,000 on the clock.For any Mercedes enthusiasts on here,could I ask are they a sound buy at this age and mileage please?
Also,do they have executive level service costs?
Cheers....Phil
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>> Which year is it?
I thought there was no Year Zero?
;-)
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I assume that "whoosh" was your point going straight over my head.
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Maybe I'm a little more circumspect about little-used profiles than others.
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Well, my 2011 E250 CDI has 160,000 miles on it and apart from a failed dashboard light a year or so ago, it hasn't needed anything other than routine maintenance from new. Services ( at an MB dealer ) range from £250 - £600 but are usually around £400, service interval is about 15,000 or 12 months. Tyres last 50,000 both ends and front brakes lasted 93,000 before they were changed and the replacements are still on the car.
They take miles very well and both the bodywork and interior show little sign of wear.
Oh, and the wafty feeling is free !
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 25 Apr 16 at 14:56
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>> Well, my 2011 E250 CDI
It's a W212 then.
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>> It's a W212 then.
S212 axshully...
;-)
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Other people know more than I about these, but while you are waiting, if you have the registration number, you might want to check the MoT history -
www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
That should confirm mileage to some extent and records any fails with reasons, and advisories that were put on the system.
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Just looked up my old Civic to see if it still lives (PX'd it for a Forester in 2008 at 130,000 miles)
W811PLF was apparently was still alive at 173,762 miles as of last April but the advisory list is one of the longest I've seen for a car that had passed - now 2 weeks after the last MOT ran out so maybe gone to Honda heaven now.
Test date: 11 April 2015 Expiry date: 10 April 2016 Test Result: Pass Odometer reading: 173,762 miles MOT test number: 2669 0130 5419 Advisory notice item(s):
Nearside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.E.1)
Front Brake pad(s) wearing thin (3.5.1g)
Front brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
Offside Front constant velocity joint gaiter deteriorated, but preventing the ingress of dirt (2.5.C.1a)
Exhaust has a minor leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2)
Body has slight corrosion (6.1.B.2)
Brake pipe slightly corroded (3.6.B.2c)
Parking brake lever has little reserve travel (3.1.6b)
Rear registration plate faded but not likely to be misread (6.3.1d)
Rear Trailing arm rubber bush deteriorated but not resulting in excessive movement (2.4.G.2)
Offside Rear Brake pad(s) wearing thin (3.5.1g)
Parking brake: parking brake efficiency only just met. It would appear that the braking system requires adjustment or repair. (3.7.B.7)
Fuel pipe/s corroded
Oil leak
offside rear wheel arch has slight rust
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Bit more information would be useful, Phil - notably age and price of the one you're looking at - but I've had my 2009 S211 for four years and 40ish thousand miles and it's been very little trouble.
I did a fair amount of digging before choosing mine and learned
- Don't buy one from before the 2006 refresh;
- Don't buy one with a V6 engine;
- Buy one with a 5G gearbox and make sure it had the one-off fluid change at 40,000 miles;
- If it claims to have a leather interior make sure it has the soft ruched door panels or it's MB imitation leather, which goes into taxis and is horrible ;
- Get one with heated seats and (tip from me) the memory driver's seat.
Servicing is once a year and costs £350-450 a time. It's heavy on fuel for a diesel, but commensurate with its size and weight; mine averages about 37mpg. Light on tyres, though, as Humph says. And yes, well wafty.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Mon 25 Apr 16 at 15:15
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Oh, and incidentally, mine has always been serviced by Mercedes Stoke ( which having stalked your intended from the info you gave might be of interest ! ) They have always been really good.
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>> Oh, and incidentally, mine has always been serviced by Mercedes Stoke ( which having stalked
>> your intended from the info you gave might be of interest ! ) They have
>> always been really good.
Yes I found it too. It's due an MoT, and the MoT history includes 3 fails and a number of advisories. Mileage checks out though - it's done about 9,000 in the last year, similar to the year before.
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>>If it claims to have a leather interior make sure it has the soft ruched door panels;
Are the others the 'Artico' ones?
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That's the word I couldn't remember. OK if you want a car you can clean out with a hose, otherwise best avoided.
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Thanks everyone for your very speedy replies...awesome!
WillDeBeest:Its a 2008,220CDI auto,87,000 miles.They want £7600.Not sure about the spec. yet as it arrives there weds night.
Runfer:You will know all that as you have very successfully stalked me....:)
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Hi again,
Manatee...thanks for that MOT link,i have just had a look at it,it doesn't make very promising reading does it.Smacks of neglect/poor maintenance perhaps.
I currently have an ageing 05 Avensis which has done 115,000 and never regd any MOT work!
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Not conclusive of course. But do people who repeatedly don't notice or ignore tyres below the limit check their oil?
There seem to be three basic types of car owner/user. The ones who get services on time and check things, the ones who just have the services and rely on the garage for tyre pressures and oil levels, and the ones who only go to a garage when something goes wrong or it fails an MoT.
I imagine it has stamps if it is on sale at the Lexus dealer, but the local Mercedes dealer may well tell you the recorded service history if you are considering buying it and say you plan to use them for servicing...
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There's no book to stamp; the online history is all there is.
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>> There's no book to stamp; the online history is all there is.
You might want to ask to see the service invoices.
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>> I currently have an ageing 05 Avensis which has done 115,000 and never regd any MOT work!
I reckon LL needs something like that...
Could we be looking at a sort of automotive dating agency scenario here?
Now we just need to find you a suitable Merc, come to think, WDB was muttering about selling his...
This could be fun ! ( I do so love helping others to spend money )
;-)
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Never mind about buying Mercs,its quite good fun here isn't it,I think i might stick around....
;-))
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>> I am tempted by an E class,220CDI Avantgarde auto,advertised by a local Lexus main dealer.
>> It has 87,000 on the clock.
Oo err, missus!
Mine is a 2008 E Class, 220CDI Avantgarde, with 87,00 on the clock.
Hold on sec.
.
.
.
.
S'all right, I just been outside. Mine is still in the garage.
Most services are £250 to £350 ish. Last one was £356.91 I am happy with mine and intend to keep it.
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Hi Duncan,
This Lexus dealership seems to be very highly rated,I regularly look there because they tend to have some very nice,non Lexus,stuff....mostly out of my price range!!
The salesman tells me they are only retailing it because it looks exceptional and has full service history,i guess not MB though.
He also said that the car would only be retailed after they do a comprehensive mechanical check on it,having seen the MOT history they may change there minds!
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What sort of things did the MOT history check throw up Phil? I mean if it's not too scary it's still probably worth a look if you are specifically shopping for an E.
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Nothing too scary,track rod ends,ball joints etc.Some of the fails seem to suggest neglect,like bald or bulging tyres!
I will have a look at it anyway on wednesday.
I am not specifically looking for an E,i would like to change my Avensis now,which is a very hard act to follow,by the way,in terms of durability.
I fancy something a bit classy such as a Merc,my favourite would be the Jag XF actually,but i have a limited budget and even the early ones with high mileage are very expensive....
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An E is a very nice thing to live with, I'd have another in a heartbeat ( no matter who was paying ) but, I feel rather than know, that you get more 5 series for your money generally speaking. They are also very good I gather. Having said all that, as with Duncan's comment above, people tend to keep their Mercs a long time. There may well be a good reason for that.
They are such a great all rounder and very cosseting.
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Word of warning, depending on just how limited is your budget. Routine running of a middle-aged E needn't be expensive, but you are relying on it staying routine. With mine I've adopted a policy of putting it in a dealer's workshop once a year, but using an independent for non-routine items.
So far it's needed various brake parts at £350 (dealer quoted £800) and a thermostat at £180 (knew what the problem was so didn't even ask the dealer.) But I do have cash in the bank to cover anything really serious. Without that I would be far more comfortable with a Mondeo.
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It is a dilemma of course, and one that anyone who makes considered car purchases is right to agonise over a bit. I guess where I am is that there are a scale of right answers. At one end you go for a more mainstream car which may or may not prove as reliable but if it doesn't then you aren't looking at palm sweating bills, at the other you try to buy a reputedly higher quality vehicle on the basis that it probably won't go wrong very much but if it does, it gets expensive. Neither is the wrong decision really. Attitude to risk I suppose is the head controlling factor. Hearts are more complex.
;-)
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Unfortunately Mercedes, along with Audi and BMW, is much nearer the bottom of the reliability table than the top.
www.whatcar.com/news/honda-named-uks-reliable-used-car-manufacturer-2015/
www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer
etc.
I might take a view about that , given that most cars are actually fairly reliable, and being twice as 'bad' as a Mondeo might not actually be terrible in absolute terms. Probably easier to do that when the car is newer, and under warranty, than when it has a few miles under its belt at 6 years old.
Of course personal preference comes into it, otherwise we'd all be driving Hondas and Toyotas :)
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 25 Apr 16 at 22:37
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Reliability surveys, whether by Warranty Direct, JD Power or anyone who's really more interested in the Telegraph column inches than the accuracy, are so full of statistical holes - beginning with the non-random selection of the sample - as to be worthless.
Warranty Direct, for example, will know nothing about my E220, which spent three years with its first owner before coming to me four years ago as MB Approved Used. Nor will it get the ex-rental Ford or Nissan whose owner doesn't buy a warranty or any servicing. The surveys also ignore everything during the manufacturer's warranty, so it's a survey of the reliability of cars whose second owners care enough to buy an aftermarket warranty but not enough to buy the car from the best source in the first place.
Useful? Not even with a pitcher of salt. A syringe of potassium chloride might be more appropriate.
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>> Reliability surveys, whether by Warranty Direct, JD Power or anyone who's really more interested in
>> the Telegraph column inches than the accuracy, are so full of statistical holes - beginning
>> with the non-random selection of the sample - as to be worthless.
I'll comment on that because I have some relevant work experience (I don't mean as a YOP).
I absolutely agree that they should not be taken as gospel. But you can get a bit closer to the data behind the WD index.
The index itself reflects both frequency and severity (cost) of claims and as you say it is by definition limited to the insured population, which will differ in uptake, age and mileage (for which last two WD attempts to adjust).
Clearly there will be varying levels of statistical confidence around the numbers, which are not disclosed (except to say that they disregard stats on fewer than 50 cars - I think that should be higher, around 150, subject to the caveat that I do not know exactly how/at what level they use the 50 figure). Other skews will include the typical profile and attitudes of users/buyers for different makes and models.
When comparing two models for which the numbers are likely to be large, and where one is twice as 'bad' as the other, I would look a bit deeper to see where that is coming from - if the average repair cost is double, then you might infer that the likelihood of a breakdown is about the same.
There is also a breakdown of fault type, which can be interesting.
I certainly wouldn't dismiss it entirely. When you drill down a bit BTW, and compare a 2006-2009 E-class to a 2007- Mondeo, you find that the Merc is slightly better overall. Average age and mileage are fairly close. Nearly 60% of repairs to the E-class are 'axle and suspension' - the very category that appears more than once in the MoT record of the car under discussion!
www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability (model search and comparison facility).
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The analysis tool may be fun but you can't just brush away objections to a self-selected and hence unrepresentative sample. All you can say is that the population of W211s has created fewer claims than the equivalent population of Mondeos for owners who care enough about their cars to buy a WD warranty but not enough to have them covered by the manufacturer.
In any case, once a car is eight years old, who's owned it and how it's been treated will matter at least as much as who made it. Unless it's a Renault, of course - hold on, eight year old Renault? Never mind.
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I brush nothing away, except your assertion that it is worthless. I can guarantee that WD uses its data to set its rates by make, age and model.
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I think to buy en exec saloon on a budget is fine. To buy one on a shoestring is much less wise.
Provided you are careful in what you buy and budget for double the service costs per year i would expect it to be ok.
Or at least, to me, worth the risk.
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Yes,thanks for that,point taken.I understand that there is a risk element to buying these cars.If I can get one at a sensible price i would be happy to maintain it properly.
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That one you've identified looks to be about the right price for the year, model and mileage. For what it's worth, the estates seem to keep their money better. Do you especially want a saloon? Just thinking that if you ever wanted to move it on again, the effect of depreciation seems to be kinder to estates.
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Yes the WD Index has it's faults but the sheer number of responses gives it some worth. What is clear to see is that, by and large, larger more expensive more complicated cars are less reliable/cost more to fix than simpler cheaper stars. Who'd have thought it!?
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The only value I can see is in making comparisons between very similar types. Mondeo against Vectra might be valid, because examples from the same 'care stratum' - somewhere near the top in this case, in terms of early life and owner care - are similarly likely to end up in WD's sector of the market. Mondeo against E-class is not, because the best Es go through MB Approved Used and only the relative dross gets to WD.
This is what I mean by a self-selecting sample; it's not a cross section of the entire population of the type, so you can't draw any valid conclusions from it for the type as a whole.
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A Mercedes E class is just a car. A Mondeo (or Sierra, being rear wheel drive I suppose) with a stylised gunsight on the front.
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In mechanical terms, yes. But Mondeos and Es as populations are not bought, owned, maintained and traded in the same way. And that's why a comparison between two differently skewed samples can't be valid.
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>>>Mondeos and Es as populations are not bought, owned, maintained and traded in the same way<<<
Whilst I would undoubtably agree with that statement over the whole life cycle of the vehicle, I just wonder which marque has the highest proportion of fleet/lease ownership in the first 3 years. How much does the 'quality' of care in that first 3years affect the future reliability/maintenance costs?
Too many questions - I guess answers are hard to come by.
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>> In mechanical terms, yes. But Mondeos and Es as populations are not bought, owned, maintained
>> and traded in the same way. And that's why a comparison between two differently skewed
>> samples can't be valid.
Not 100% reliable, no. I understand your point but you are going too far in extrapolating from there to ignoring such objective information as exists. By all means use soft data too - personal experience and knowledge, informed opinion etc..
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man shouldn't wear two eye patches.
I think the fault analysis is interesting. Take away the suspension faults, which are non-catastrophic and relatively cheap to fix (the severity value is surprisingly low which is congruent with that assumption) and the overall reliability probably comes into the top quartile.
If you believe that the sample is skewed against that model, because all the good ones have been skimmed off (doesn't that happen with Mondeos?), then aim off a bit for that too and it would look even better. I wouldn't, because I think you have an exaggerated idea of the likely effect but that's just my opinion.
Finally - it is very unlikely that the results will be predictive of the experience with an individual car. You can't have 25% of a fault every year. You will either be lucky, or not, all you can do is weigh up the odds.*
So avoid the models with the worst rating if cost and reliability matter to you, make sure it doesn't have any detectable faults when you buy it, and get the longest guarantee you can.
*Anecdote (repeat, I think). I used to run a warranty programme and I had all the data for autowashers. I bought an Indesit in about 1997 because, although cheap, they had about half the average breakdown rate (the average being c. 100% i.e 1 fault per unit in years 2-5). That machine was the worst we ever had - it broke down just out of guarantee, and annually thereafter, four times the expected fault rate. I binned it on the third breakdown.
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Yes, fair enough. I don't think we're too far apart on this.
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This bats its eyelids at me every day at the moment as I drive past - doesn't quite match WDB's substantial "needs" list, but almost.
www.houndgreencarsales.co.uk/used-cars/mercedes-benz-e-class-3-0-e320-cdi-avantgarde-7g-tronic-5dr-hook-201603071725063
Hope someone else buys it soon.
*must resist. spent too much on SAAB. must resist.*
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3 plates older than mine (RO58 EEF, remember) so too old for me to consider taking on now. Curiously, it wouldn't solve my incipient space problem either, being exactly the same size as the one I already have.
That's the colour for it, though. And whatever the question marks over the engine and gearbox, I'm sure the V6 would sound nicer than my Sprinter van four, while the 7G ought to put second and third back where they belong (they're a touch too high in the 5G.). You could do a lot worse.
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>> 3 plates older than mine (RO58 EEF, remember) so too old for me to consider
>> taking on now.
Are there particular problems with that age of e class or just a personal preference?
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No, it's post-2006, so won't have the brake, radiator or corrosion problems that afflicted the first 211s. I don't mind running a seven-year-old car - and will probably keep it a year or two more - but I wouldn't buy one that old. Vić's methods are different, as we know.
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>> 3 plates older than mine (RO58 EEF, remember) so too old for me to consider
>> taking on now. Curiously, it wouldn't solve my incipient space problem either, being exactly the
>> same size as the one I already have.
I wasn't suggesting that you might purchase it WDB, just that I'd seen it, liked it, and others might be interested in chewing the fat given that it's the model of car under discussion on this thread, which isn't your thread about legroom. I had no intention of meaning that it might be suitable for you.
So easy to be misunderstood on here.
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 27 Apr 16 at 13:17
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OK, just teasing. I know you've only got stubby little legs, so you'd need a different reason for buying one of these.
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They are also fat and hairy. I shall change my forum name to Ernie fifthwith.
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We'd all rather you didn't.
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Yes, fluffy was a better handle. More accurately descriptive somehow.
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I do hope that's not an accusation, AC. If it is, I'm quite happy to assure you hand on heart that I have no other accounts on this forum.
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Are you sure that's your heart?
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Are you implying that you are not the 'forum member formerly known as fluffy'? Well I'm damned... quite sure are you?
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Well this is getting rather silly.
I am not implying it, I am stating it barely, because it's a fact.
No, I am not fluffy. Nor any other ID.
I'd be grateful if you could desist with the accusation.
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>> No, I am not fluffy. Nor any other ID.
Not even Ernie Fifthwith?
There's been so much jinking and dodging that I am becoming confused.
I'll try not to upset you by saying so, Al, but from now on I will secretly think of you as fluffy.
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>> I'll try not to upset you by saying so, Al, but from now on I
>> will secretly think of you as fluffy.
>>
Your prerogative of course AC, but quite misguided. I shan't be upset though.
You understand the difference between changing a posting name on a forum account for a laugh, and creating a different login and pretending to be someone else, surely? If you change your posting name, all your posts revert to that new name. So, whoever fluffy is, it is either a unique individual, or a forum member with a second account. It is not me nor anyone else changing their logon name on their existing account.
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SQ, oh gawd another Zero!
>> *must resist. spent too much on SAAB. must resist.*
See the MOT history...
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 27 Apr 16 at 15:31
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History doesn't look too scary to me. I'd be interested to see what kind of tyres it has. That might tell you a bit about the owner's attitude.
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>> See the MOT history...
>>
Not much to worry about there, surely? Just the steering rack wear. Everything else is tyres, lights and the odd suspension component, nothing abnormal on a 120k mile car.
Evidently hasn't been owned by a C4P member with OCD, but if it's got full service history then those other oversights in maintenance are pretty common in the general population.
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Anyway, I think I've managed to convince myself that 7k is too muck to spend on a 9 year od car.
I'd rather have this for the sameish (less) money:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603222210738
Just virtually kicking tyres here.
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 27 Apr 16 at 15:41
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Has anyone else noticed that car looks quite a lot like Hitler?
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No. But even if it did, it's a decent motor for the money.
I think. Way out of my league of course.
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Update.....
After much consideration i have decided against the E at the Lexus dealership,the mileage is bit higher than i would like.
I have seen one on a Toyota dealership with quite low mileage and is Toyota approved,so 12months warranty etc,which is a big bonus.However,and i can feel everyone cringing now,it is the
"poverty spec" Classic.Actually i don't mind that,i am not bothered about leather etc.
I am in a bit of a dilemma with this.On one hand i am under the impression these are awesome cars,on the other a few people i have spoke to "in the business" tell me buying an older E is asking for expensive trouble.
May be i should go Japanese again...any votes for Accord?
Hope i am not boring you all.
Cheers....Phil
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Well, of course you must do what you feel is right for you.
A little story for you though, I know a guy who has a large mini cab and private hire company up in Scotland. Averagely runs up to 50 cars at a time. I can remember asking him how long or how many miles he reasonably expected to get out his vehicles before they were no longer economical to keep.
He told me that the mainstream stuff such as Fords, Nissans, VWs, Skodas etc etc were usually good for 300 - 400,000 miles but that the Mercs ( E Classes and S Classes ) he would routinely run to 600,000 and beyond.
Pays yer money, takes yer choice I guess.
;-)
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BIL loves Mercs and bought a 320CDI S class from a Mercedes dealer when it was about 5 years old with 28k miles , fullMB SH and a 12 month warranty..
Suspension and manifold repairs came to £5k in year 1- the warranty paid. Been faultless since..
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Thanks all,looks like....Am i feeling lucky??
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>> I know a guy who has a large mini
>> cab and private hire company up in Scotland. Averagely runs up to 50 cars at
>> a time. I can remember asking him how long or how many miles he reasonably
>> expected to get out his vehicles before they were no longer economical to keep.
>>
>> He told me that the mainstream stuff such as Fords, Nissans, VWs, Skodas etc etc
>> were usually good for 300 - 400,000 miles but that the Mercs ( E Classes
>> and S Classes ) he would routinely run to 600,000 and beyond.
How does the guy you know decide when a repair is routine stuff - shoulder shrugging - pay up and carry on
or
not routine - seriously teeth sucking and head shaking - sorry old girl, but you now have to go?
Last edited by: Duncan on Thu 28 Apr 16 at 19:15
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I'd guess if we ran 50 cars at a time we'd be asked the question frequently enough to get a pretty good feel for what's fixable - or worth fixing - and what isn't. Those of us with smaller fleets never really gain the experience.
If you went by the fleecy wisdom of C4P, my airport taxi firm and all the others would run petrol-powered Hondas and Toyotas. They don't; they run W211 E220s with the occasional A6 TDI or S80 D5 for variety. Like Humph's contact, they run them to mega-miles and they've always got me to the airport on time.
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I don't know Duncan, we never got that far into it. Wouldn't like to speculate really other than to imagine that it's about the general condition of the vehicle.
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>>one on a Toyota dealership with quite low mileage...
Sorry "stalked" that one too !
Someone has put cheapo tyres on that and it has two air fresheners in it so something smells in there...
Probably fine if you don't go round corners too fast in the rain and you leave the windows open...
;-))
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If it's the one in Preston, a claimed 57,000 miles in 9 years (presumably verifiable under the Toyota AU programme) suggests the smell might be wee. I expect it would fade; not like, say, sour milk or creosote.
Classic spec is a matter of taste, really. There aren't many about, and you're not missing out on the height of cossetage because MB leather is all about durability, not luxury. I hate the orange wood - makes the weird grey-green stuff in my Avantgarde look like a good design choice - but prefer the black instruments to the off-white dials in mine. Unheated seats, though - bummer, although in the circumstances it may be as well to be without electric wires in there. Put mine on tonight; it's nearly May, remember.
Get a few hundred off, a second year's AU warranty, then plan to keep it five years and it could prove a very sound buy. Oh yes, some decent tyres, too; an E deserves Michelin or Continental.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 28 Apr 16 at 23:21
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>> If it's the one in Preston, a claimed 57,000 miles in 9 years (presumably verifiable
>> under the Toyota AU programme) suggests the smell might be wee.
More likely dog and/or smoking.
I had a Scorpio estate that turned out to be doggy. It had been very well cleaned, and the smell, which was all from the load area, only appeared on hot sunny days when the car was parked. Not very nice though.
Heated seats are unnecessary with cloth. Undesirable in fact as they might go wrong. It's the leather that smites at the nethers on a winter morning.
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Hi,
Yes its the one in Preston.i am in that area on saturday so going to have a look.
I would be a bit surprised if a Toyota Approved car had dodgy smells from whatever source.They claim that the cars have to be of a high standard to be retailed,we shall see!
I am very fussy so it will be a very quick visit if its been a smokers car etc.
I think,because of the spec for one thing,they are going to have a hard time selling it which is probably the reason they are selling it as approved rather than the 3 months warranty that comes with older cars(5+) to make it more attractive.
As you say,if it is ok.i will want an exceptional deal...
Thanks again for your contributions.
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Heated seats are unnecessary with cloth. Undesirable in fact...
After 12 years with a fabric-seated S60 whose seat heaters saw a lot of use, I entirely disagree.
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>> the smell might be wee. I expect it would fade; not like, say, sour milk or creosote.
Wonder how Mark got on with his mishap. Did he update the other thread and I missed it?
>> because MB leather is all about durability
It's often "fake: man-made leather in MB. Good for vegans. But sadly Artico is vinyl. So I'd hope vinyl is durable!
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No, Artico is something else again, as we mentioned earlier.
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Mercedes Benz E-Class W211 - Maintenance Costs - No FM2R
