No real reason to post other than to say I've just renewed the annual tax on the Zoe. That was an eye-watering £0.00.
And yesterday I calculated my 7400 miles so far has cost me just about £90. Although it could be a bit less.
Service due next month. Might be as much as £80, although some dealer shenanigans through the year might also see a reduction in that, with luck.
Insurance was £330, same as the Volvo, pretty much.
No other expenses other, of course, than paying for the blasted thing.
And finally, all the numbers that made it work financially for me have been blown away now.
The new 2017 electric cars, of all makes including the new just-released Zoe, are now so eye-wateringly expensive to buy, absolutely nobody other than the most devout greenish person will do so. In my view the electric car market is pretty well going to be dead in a year or two in the UK unless something major happens. It will be PHEV all the way for those interested, if they in turn can bear to pay the huge premiums asked over the non-PHEV versions.
Which is a shame, but better than nothing I guess.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 7 Dec 16 at 13:30
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Weak pound must be doing wonders for battery prices...
High list of next-gen EVs at this time is likely to come down once current stocks dwindle - you can get a brand new 30kWh LEAF with all the bells/whistles (Tekna spec) for £19.5k from drivethedeal.com, and a 24kWh mid-spec Acenta for £16.2k.
If you can forego fast-charging capabilities and can live with a realistic 85-90mile range, the Mercedes B-Class 250e starts at £19.8k from the same site.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 7 Dec 16 at 13:45
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>> High list of next-gen EVs at this time is likely to come down once current
>> stocks dwindle - you can get a brand new 30kWh LEAF with all the bells/whistles
>> (Tekna spec) for £19.5k from drivethedeal.com, and a 24kWh mid-spec Acenta for £16.2k.
>>
>> If you can forego fast-charging capabilities and can live with a realistic 85-90mile range, the
>> Mercedes B-Class 250e starts at £19.8k from the same site.
Leaf due for replacement in a few months. And odds are it will be a major increase in range, and also a major increase in price.
As to the 85 mile range non-fast charge game, that gets really niche. You simply can't use it for anything other than commuting or the shops, unless you're staying over at someones house that's no further than 80 miles away.
Pretty restricting. And it's all very well being restricting, but if that's going to be the case you want the things to be way cheaper than petrol cars, not, as the reality is, way more and also dashed inconvenient.
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>>that gets really niche
For 2 vehicle families perhaps not as bad as you may suspect.
I've done 27000 miles in my Kizashi in 3 years (compared to perhaps 45,000 in the FRV between me and the gaffer) and the only time I've been outside a 40 mile radius has been either going to our cottage in the Borders (55 miles away with electricity on site)
Whether I'd want an electric B-Class is another matter, although those who drive them seem very happy with them - they do have a 'restricted' Tesla motor in them after all.
*edit* - not entirely true - I did go to Dundonald Links to play golf a couple of years ago which is about 60 miles away.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 7 Dec 16 at 15:19
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>> And yesterday I calculated my 7400 miles so far has cost me just about £90.
>> Although it could be a bit less.
That's incredibly cheap. Really puts the price of petrol into perspective.
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Keen as I am, I'm more than happy we currently remain a two car household - even if I'm the only driver. There have been a few occasions through the year over and above holidays where I've started to go though something like:
Well, it's a 145 mile round trip tomorrow, so I could find that charger down at..no wait, that one is offline..so I'll have to use the one at..no hang on, I don't have a card for that..oh well, if we were to...oh stuff this, I'll shove twenty quid in and we'll take the Volvo.
Takes more dedication than I can be doing with to have an EV as your only car, to be brutally honest.
When your journey works, I really love it. When it doesn't, or doesn't quite, well, not so much.
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Thanks. I've said here before that I've toyed with the idea of an electric car for a while. I'd always thought of it alongside a "proper" car. However the cost to change is simply more than I want to spend on cars. I have a Focus 1.6L which has been in the family virtually since it was a toddler and it owes me nothing and still only has 66k on the clock. I don't have to fret about dings and scratches in the car park, tyres and servicing etc aren't expensive and nor is insurance. I suspect I will hang onto it till one of us dies. I do so hope the car beats me to that one!!
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 7 Dec 16 at 15:36
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The short lifespan of the batteries vs. the huge cost of replacing them would also put me off.
It is as though your usual fuel costs are all simply adding up and being defered for a few years then BOOM!
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>>The short lifespan of the batteries
In temperate climates like the UK the batteries seem to last as long as the car (ie. 75+% of original storage capacity at 100k miles isn't unusual).
Very hot climates accelerate degradation on battery packs that are not liquid cooled quite significantly - LEAFs in Arizona are not a great idea at present.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 7 Dec 16 at 15:46
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Nah, that one really isn't true. As far as I am genuinely aware:
Number of Leaf batteries changed due to getting old since they started selling it - none.
Number of Zoe batteries changed due to getting old since they started selling it - none.
Was watching Ian Sampson (he's on Youtube) last night, who is chronicling his Leaf adventures, from day one.
He's just rolled over 50k miles, and battery degradation - none whatsoever. It's just as it was when he started.
Even if you DID have to replace it because you're out of the five year warranty or whatever your manufacturer offers, it's "only" going to be a couple of thousand at tops, because they reuse your old one as part of a power wall or something and credit you for it.
I really wouldn't factor battery life in as a worry. And they're getting cheaper too.
Edit - cross post with Lygonos, and I'm of course talking about the UK.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 7 Dec 16 at 15:49
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Who said the Welsh car industry was dead? Check out the fuel-cell/supercapacitor hybrid with 4wd....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=utmkddBFUg0
(posted previously)
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Whilst all the owners are getting cheap mileage at the expense of all the other UK tax payers, how long before the negative effect on the total UK tax revenue becomes a real issue?
From some back of the envelope calculations, if petrol fuel tax revenues went to zero from £30B ( with a direct and consequent VAT loss of £12B), and not accounting for indirect loss of VAT take, the shortfall could be covered by a new VAT figure of 26% OR increasing the Income Taxes take by about 23%.
'
Would 'Low mileage' users feel so happy then?
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Wed 7 Dec 16 at 16:16
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My family spends around £3000pa on motor vehicle fuel, which means £2000 or so extra tax (before factoring in VED/IPT/VAT on repairs/tyres/etc)
If that all went away and VAT was bumped to 26% I reckon I'd be better off.
Currently drivers, smokers, drinkers, and gamblers subsidise the puritanical non-drivers to the tune of billions per year.
These are also largely non-progressive taxes (ie disproportionally hit lower earners than higher earners)
Who would want a fair tax system?
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 7 Dec 16 at 16:30
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Twenty grand PLUS fiftynine a month. Seems double dear to me.
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Mmmm renault doing something clever with the batteries to get twice the output from the same size / weight.........if it was anyone else I would applaud them, but think I'll wait for the beta testers to let us know how this goes
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The range is picking up on these isn't it ? I wonder when they'll crack 300 (genuine) range, once they've done that they really well become mainstream.
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Its getting there. When they can do 500 miles and hotels or camp sites have plenty of chargers with capacity for anyone who just turns up then I will consider one.
I am concerned about the increased energy density of the batteries though. Wasn't the increased capacity behind the Samsung Note fires?
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I think it was but a car offers more options to keep the whole process cool enough not to cause such problems.
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Yes but crashes tend to damage equipment and the cooling may fail.
Noticed all the Tesla bays at services on the M40 recently were full - about half a dozen - all filled with Teslas.
I didn't know that there were that many on the road! I suspect that as it was at one of the services towards the south end of the M40 they were getting a full charge before heading north.
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If you are happy to carry one hundred pounds of high explosive in a tank at the back of your car then overheating batteries should not be a major concern
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I didn't know that there were that many on the road!
More than I guessed.
www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=tesla&commit=Search
Certainly quite a few in my area including one just a few houses from mine.
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>> Yes but crashes tend to damage equipment and the cooling may fail.
They can, but they aren't any more dangerous than ICE powered cars in a crash.
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The council owns most of the electric cars and vans in our area. Hopefully on a huge fleet discount or cheap lease.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 18 Dec 16 at 08:13
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One would like to believe that.
Considering LEAFs can be had brand-newfor £12k below list I expect the council ones will be competetive.
Ideal vehicles for bopping around Edinburgh/council areas.
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I'm in Fife, the pool cars are Leafs, meals on wheels use electric Nissan vans.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 18 Dec 16 at 12:24
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.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Sun 18 Dec 16 at 12:44
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No, I don't get MoW. :-)
Yet.
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You're too quick for me, ON. That's for sure.
;)
Edit. Actually I thought the service had been discontinued in my area, but it hasn't.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Sun 18 Dec 16 at 13:05
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I would like to think that councils get decent discounts, but based on the way some waste money I wouldn't bank on it
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It was a guess, I did not see it. :-)
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Wonder if we would get a reply to a freedom of information request?
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Depends on how you worded it i suppose. They'd tell you how much they spent on vehicles in one given year but if ask how much a Leaf from leaseucar.com costs per month i doubt it.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 18 Dec 16 at 13:36
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Isn't the plural of "Leaf" - "Leaves"? :-)
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Leafs is correct.
If you want to take up pedantry as a hobby you need to know the rules.
www.dailywritingtips.com/plurals-of-proper-names/
:-)
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>> Leafs is correct.
SQ 4 LB
I still like "Leaves" better, as it is slightly pejorative when applied to a shed Leaf!
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 18 Dec 16 at 19:20
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As an owner of an ageing Jazz with a dodgy auto box I'd perhaps be wary of describing other people's cars as "sheds" :-)
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Ah, but I KNOW our old car is a shed!
#Realist
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>> Wasn't the increased capacity behind the Samsung Note fires?
No. It was because they made them so thin there wasn't any room for the battery to expand when charging or in use. Lithium ion batteries can expand slightly and without room they were damaged and ultimately caught fire.
Probably why limiting charging capacity until they were all recalled was implemented - they couldn't so easily cause damage.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 18 Dec 16 at 15:15
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Zoe little update - Lygonos
