My wife's 52 reg Focus is nearing the end of its life; I fear that its mot/service in September will prove costly, and shortly after that, it will need 4 new tyres. It has been a faithful friend and we'll be sad to see it go ......
After a life time of boringly sensible car-buying/running decisions, we have cash in the bank; I told Mrs H that a gorgeous, sexy woman like her deserved a gorgeous, sexy car and that she should get what she wanted ...... anything - do you fancy a Lamberrari Continental? - anything. She said that she wanted a Ford B-max.
Her mate has got a B-max - it's the 125 ecoboost, 1L petrol job, so it's got enough poke. It's comfortable, easy to park, easy to get into, easy to stuff a small grandchild into etc. It all sounds boringly sensible.
So - some questions.......
Has anyone on here got any experience of the B-max, and what do you think about it?
I hear that Ford will drop the B-max next month, so would now be a good time to buy a B-max, or would it be completely stupid to buy a model that will be going off-range shortly? How would this affect the price, bearing in mind that the B-max seems to have developed something of a cult following among those who know it?
All opinions gratefully received.
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Buying new? as a keeper? I would say that now is a good time to negotiate huge discounts. Car at the end of its life, known bugs wrinkled out, loaded with options to make it saleable, wife likes it, wife wants it, its attracted a cult following for good reasons.
Whats not to like.
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>> Whats not to like.
Ford B-Max? :-)
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Edit: Agree with Z in principle.
(hence) I have been thinking about one as a possible replacement for our Roomster, now it is out of warranty with its DSG gearbox and 1.2TSI engine, the one with the "toothed chain".
The boss likes a smallish car with plenty of space, easy to fold seats, good access and rear legroom, (she does community stuff and the old ladies love the Roomster which they can nearly walk into).
The challenge is she likes automatics, having had one since 2002, and the Ford Powershift could be a case of from frying pan to fire. If it has wet clutches it might be a better prospect, and if there are some serious discounts around in the coming months this could be a good opportunity to update.
However I do know that Ford has a dry clutch DCT that it uses in Fiestas - it seems likely that this is what goes into the B-Max, which might rule it out for me, although I'd like some feedback. Shame, as the engine that is in the automatic is a 1.6 NA rather than the 3 cylinder time bomb. I don't like changing cars at 3-4 years old and I want something good for 6-8. (Our old 2002 Civic 1.6 auto is still in use with the friend we sold it to in 2014.0
I know one owner of a B-Max who has a diesel - she had DPF and/or EGR problems in year 3 going by her rather non-technical descriptions, so I would definitely not want one of those.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 23 Jul 17 at 11:55
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>> The boss likes a smallish car with plenty of space, easy to fold seats, good
>> access and rear legroom, (she does community stuff and the old ladies love the Roomster
>> which they can nearly walk into).
>>
One reason we have a Jazz, the ultimate small tardis, our old dears love it. Don't believe the crap engine write ups, Honda don't do crap engines. A reasonably bullet proof CVT transmission is available.
A couple of days ago we came across a friend whose mobility scooter had failed (a tripped breaker, but not known at the time) we put him and the scooter in the Jazz and delivered him to his house.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 23 Jul 17 at 13:07
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Friend has a 2013 Titanium diesel B Max.
As someone who likes high up seat positions I love the car. Think it's basically Firsta size but on steroids.
Titanium comes with DAB , Cruise, heated seats and armrest.
Only negative I can think of are the rear doors. They are hugely practical for access to the rear however they are heavy. Younger kids struggle to shut the door from the inside, especially when the car is parked on a hill.
Think the seats all fold forward as well, not sure if they come fully out or not?
If memory serves me right, front passenger seat folds flat as well?
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>>
>> One reason we have a Jazz, the ultimate small tardis, our old dears love it.
>> Don't believe the crap engine write ups, Honda don't do crap engines. A reasonably bullet
>> proof CVT transmission is available.
>>
+1
Very easy to drive and park and v cheap to run...
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I think car reviews are written by baby journalists who don't know how to drive a non turbo engine and have been brainwashed by diesels. A 100bhp petrol engine is adequate for a supermini.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 23 Jul 17 at 15:19
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>> I think car reviews are written by baby journalists who don't know how to drive
>> a non turbo engine and have been brainwashed by diesels. A 100bhp petrol engine is
>> adequate for a supermini.
105PS makes for a surprisingly lively drive in the Roomster. It feels quicker than it is because of the turbo and the pull at low rpm..
I managed to make more than adequate progress in a 40bhp Polo 38 years ago, granted it was a good bit lighter. It did spend most of its time flat out. Its successor, a 1981 1.1 Golf had 49bhp and was a little more on top of the job despite more weight. The 1983 Escort 5 door 1.3 that came after that had a more than adequate 69bhp, particularly as I was by then habituated to using the full accelerator travel. 100bhp per ton in those days was showing off, and the 200bhp Sierra Cosworth was mad. Not long before that, my 1975 Holbay Hunter with half the power had been considered a quick car.
I don't usually like very powerful cars. I like the idea of them, but they disappoint. One normalises quickly to what one drives regularly.
BHP never tells the whole story anyway. In a car that never exceeds 3000rpm, the maximum power output at 6000 is irrelevant.
What makes for an enjoyable drive is hard to describe. Directness in response, certainly. Confidence in cornering too. Nothing illustrates this better than my worn out MX5. I rarely break 4000rpm so don't get near the claimed 138bhp but I always enjoy it.
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"BHP never tells the whole story anyway"
Mmm, true - several months ago, I attended a speed awareness course after being 'done' in my gutless 90bhp Astra diesel estate! ;-(
I used to really enjoy driving my wife's Metro though I can't imagine that it had many horses.
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Ah...mmm... speed awareness you say...? Might start another thread...
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Until recently our second car has always been a petrol powered hatchback of some sort with a 1.6 litre engine and around 100bhp. A couple of Renault Meganes, a MINI Cooper (admittedly I think that had 115 bhp) and Audi A3. As well as a Megane CC. None of them had a turbo, but when revved all were capable of a decent turn of speed and certainly never felt under powered, subject to being in the right gear!
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>> a decent turn of speed and certainly never felt under powered, subject to being in
>> the right gear!
>>
Could that be the bit that baby journalists, non motoring writers doing reviews, and youngsters brought up in driving turbo petrol and diesel cars don't get ? Since switching from diesel to NA engined jazz I have not held up any traffic or got any points ! :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 23 Jul 17 at 18:42
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Be fair ON, when turbos were a rarity we all knew people who had never discovered the upper end of the rev counter.
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True, Mrs ON is one, my Jazz below 3,000rpm = economy, above 3,000rpm = VTEC activation and power.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 23 Jul 17 at 18:49
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The Jazz is noisy when revved hard though. That combined with its jittery ride was enough to put me off. The design is still a clever one but overall it's a bit dated now compared to its competitors.
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>> The Jazz is noisy when revved hard though. That combined with its jittery ride was
>> enough to put me off. The design is still a clever one but overall it's
>> a bit dated now compared to its competitors.
>>
If you are talking about the 2015> model I do not agree other than the engine being a bit vocal above about 4,000 revs. It cruises at 3,000 revs / 70 mph without having to turn up the (DAB :-) ) radio and as I have grown out of traffic light races high revs are rarely needed.
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Yes the latest model. Had one on an extended test drive in February.
Was toying with the idea of a smaller car. Did find the Jazz noisy when pushed with also a fair amount of road noise. Of the small cars I tested the Fiesta was the nicest to drive. Really didn't like the ride in the Jazz. In the end I stayed with VW and bought a new Golf.
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>> noisy when pushed with also a fair amount of road noise
Some Jazz drivers can turn their hearing aids off I believe. That seems to be the main target audience ;-)
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>> Some Jazz drivers can turn their hearing aids off I believe. That seems to be
>> the main target audience ;-)
>>
Pardon?
Only in the UK where badge snobbery is rife. :-)
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I think Honda's designs have resulted in the market they have now and they continue. There was a time when large Honda's were seen as premium. I always like the Honda Accord's I got as hire cars in the mid to late 90s. I also thought the Primera was a good car.
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Honda produce a large rane of cars - 3litre+ petrols for the US market & other, normally smal, cars for the Japanese market & running on 600cc turbo & non turbo engines...........maybe not 100& right for the UK Market but at least they would fill a spot in the showroom & let you see something more than a Jazz, Civic, HRV & CRV...........
20 years ago they had sports cars, People carriers, 3/4 flavours of Civics, Accords, Legends etc etc
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Honda put in the UK showroom what they can sell at a profit. Alas they have a "old persons car" image in the uk. So thats what they sell.
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>> Honda produce a large rane of cars - ..........
One of my daughters has a Honda FRV, used as a family bus. She would buy a new one in a heartbeat if it was still sold in the UK.
Any ideas for a replacement ?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 24 Jul 17 at 09:45
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What exactly is it that attracts old people to the Jazz? Didn't seem particularly comfortable. It was fairly easy to access though I suppose. Is that the attraction?
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>> What exactly is it that attracts old people to the Jazz? Didn't seem particularly comfortable.
>> It was fairly easy to access though I suppose. Is that the attraction?
>>
Many "old folk" don't like the current model Jazz, as it has a built in android tablet which controls many functions and it has too many "gadgets".
Remember the Jazz market in the UK is a tiny proportion of worldwide sales, we get what the big markets want.
What they like is the ease of driving, versatile interior, reliability, and low running costs
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 23 Jul 17 at 23:08
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Does the new Jazz still have the "magic " seats?
They have done away with them in the new Civic
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>> Does the new Jazz still have the "magic " seats?
>> They have done away with them in the new Civic
>>
Yes, the Jazz still has them, my friends mobility scooter ( medium sized one ) fitting in easily with the wider part of the seat folded down. Mrs ON on the other back seat and friend in the front due to his disability. Mrs ON uses a tall shopping trolley when shifting her craft supplies around, fold up a back seat and it stands on the floor behind a front seat. Put a seat belt around it and it is secure.
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>> Does the new Jazz still have the "magic " seats?
Yes complete with Dumbledore sat on them
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>> Yes complete with Dumbledore sat on them
>>
Better him than Cerberus, he doesn't need a cage.
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>>
>> Could that be the bit that baby journalists, non motoring writers doing reviews, and youngsters
>> brought up in driving turbo petrol and diesel cars don't get ? Since switching from
>> diesel to NA engined jazz I have not held up any traffic or got any
>> points ! :-)
>>
Haha :p
Though I think you're right - I forgot our Up! That only had 75ps, no turbo and a five speed gearbox. It's official 0 to 60 time was over 13 seconds, but driven properly it too easily kept up with, and pulled away from, most traffic on the A27 until illegal speeds...
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Looked briefly at one when replacing the 05 1.9D Berlingo in late 2015. Liked the sliding doors, less keen on Ford standard interior but could have learned to cope with it. It was though way too expensive (do Ford dealers lack confidence in high milers) compared a 70k mile Roomster with full 2 year Dealer warranty on offer at local Skoda franchise.
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Thanks for the comments. By the fact that the thread drifted quickly towards the delights (or otherwise) of the Honda Jazz, I infer that we don't know a huge amount about the B-max, but know rather more about the Jazz.
If the new car goes the way of our previous cars or indeed, everything else in our household, then it would be destined to become a 'keeper'. It will, without a doubt, be a manual gearbox. The 1L 3-cylinder Ecoboost has interested me since its arrival some 5 or 6 years ago ........ but is it sufficiently robust to be a 'keeper'? How are they looking after 100/150k miles?
I should add that we are also considering a Jazz; every time I get my 1985-purchased Honda HR194 mower out of the shed, I am reminded of the genius of Honda engineering. But yes, my wife is aware of the 'old person' image of the Jazz and she has her street-cred to consider......
I think she'll be doing her interested, but not desperate, act down at the dealers in the next few weeks. She can be a mean, mean woman!
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The Jazz is quite a nice looking car and has a reputation for being practical, thougjh has a dowdy image, whereas the B-Max is probably as practical and I would reckon probably better to drive.
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My mower is a Honda HR194 too!
Appears to be far more reliable than Honda's hopeless F1 engines. Starts on the first pull after it comes out of winter hibernation.
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But there again so does by 29 year old Hayter. with its Briggs and Stratton Engine. Just an oil change every year and a new plug every few years.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Mon 24 Jul 17 at 20:35
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You're supposed to change the oil on a mower....!?!
Mind a Honda - 5 years old, never serviced, starts first pull and works fine. Perhaps I'll grate it to a service this year ;)
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Change the oil? Change the spark plug?
The B-S on my mower (30 yr old? - ) has not had any servicing in my ownership for 17 years. The only replacement has been the rubber priming bulb. Still starts first time after the winter.
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Mmm. Should say treat, not grate!! And yes, oil, spark plug and air filter is about all there is to change. Blade probably needs sharpening too...
It is usually run on v-power, which I'm sure helps ;)
Though, on reflection probably not for the two stroke hedge trimmer. V-power claims to have extra cleaning propoerties doesn't it? Probably washes the oil intended to lubricate the engine straight off!
Last edited by: PeterS on Mon 24 Jul 17 at 21:10
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>> But there again so does by 29 year old Hayter. with its Briggs and Stratton
>> Engine. Just an oil change every year and a new plug every few years.
Very much the strategy I follow, although sometimes I might do the oil every second season. Air filter cartridge maybe every third season. I found a cheap retailer of pattern filters on the web and any engine oil is what is left from over from one of the cars I do an oil change on, so is effectively 'free'.
I always run the engines dry at the end of the cutting season. The following year with fresh petrol in the tanks, it's not unusual for the engines on one of the four mowers we have to start first time.
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Oh dear, I knew I shouldn't have mentioned my mower.
The question shifts ....... do I buy the missus a new car or a new mower?
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I'd imagine buying *any* domestic appliance *for* someone can only end badly, and that probably extends to mowers... ;)
Though, I'm sure you can get a mower in a Ford B-max. Buy through a broker and use some of the money saved for a nice self-propelling key start Honda :)
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My wife's friend with the B-max (see o.p.) called round this afternoon so I had the opportunity to have a closer look and try it out.
The car was the Titanium model, with a few extras e.g. privacy glass - which doesn't interest me. I checked the boot - not huge, but OK and wide enough to take a folded pushchair. There was a 'false-floor' in the boot with additional space - and there was another compartment below that contained the spare wheel ........ friend didn't seem to be aware of that.
The rear doors were indeed heavy, but they have to be so because of their modus operandi. Ride height was a little higher than my wife's Focus, and the seats were supportive and comfortable. There was plenty of room in the cabin.
We took the car for a spin that included a few miles of the A14; the diminutive engine pulled strongly and when accelerating through the gears there was a satisfying rasp from the exhaust.
Friend is very enthusiastic about the car having put 34k miles on in 2.5 years. She was hoping to trade it in for a new one at 3 years, but was most disappointed to learn that it will soon be discontinued. I was impressed by it.
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>> There was a 'false-floor' in the boot with additional space
Possibly allows variable floor levels. Either level (and smaller space) or lower it and more space for larger items.
>> She was hoping to trade it in for a new one at 3 years, but was most disappointed to learn that it will soon be discontinued
Buy it off her and she can order a new one before it's discontinued. Simple. Unless you wanted a soon to be discontinued and therefore discounted new one.
Car sounds like it will suit your wife.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 27 Jul 17 at 00:18
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"Buy it off her and she can order a new one before it's discontinued."
That is the very thought that first crossed my mind, but there were a couple of things that put me off the idea. The car was a bit, well, 'lived-in' and covered with dog-hairs and I'm not sure if wife's friend could be described as 'mechanically sympathetic'. On setting off for our brief excursion, I noted the relatively short-travel of the clutch pedal, and she mentioned that she'd taken a short course with an 'advanced instructor' who had been critical of her use of the clutch.
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Well, the bullet was bitten, and we have a new B-max.
The Focus was going to cost us in September - annual service, MoT, attention to brake pipes (?), 4 new tyres, and probable replacement of PCV valve again as it was guzzling oil at a litre per 700 miles. And those are the things that I know about.
In the end, we were offered just over £4k off a new B-max Titanium Navigator (125ps Ecoboost) and they would would give us £100 for the Focus (i.e. scrap value) which we were able to drive over there. I made sure that the B-max came with a space-saver wheel.
The car, though it only had 25 miles on the clock, was actually registered on March 31st - thus qualifying for the annual £30 road-tax. This side of April 1st, it would have been £160/£140 p.a.
Since getting the car home, we haven't really done much driving in it ....... don't really want to get it dirty in this filthy weather! I enjoyed driving it back though I'm slightly disconcerted by the contra-rotating windscreen wipers that flap across the screen like the flippers of an angry sea-lion. We've spend a couple of hours every day playing with the toys - the satnav (still think I prefer the old Tomtom), the DAB radio and the phone synching.
When the sun comes out (anyone remember the sun?), and we've driven it a bit more, I'll let you know how it goes.
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>>anyone remember the sun?
The rain it raineth every day
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The rain it raineth every day
Upon the just and unjust fella,
But more upon the just because
The unjust hath the just's umbrella!
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>> Since getting the car home, we haven't really done much driving in it ....... don't
>> really want to get it dirty in this filthy weather! I enjoyed driving it back
>> though
So get in the damn thing and enjoy it. Rain or knot.
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"So get in the damn thing........."
Good news - the sun's out and my wife will shortly be driving me over to a friend's new place where he has organised a range of beers for our delectation. I won't be allowed to drive, however, until I've sobered up.
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And if you use your Loaf my Son, long may that continue. Cheers..
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Sad to report that my wife's friend's B-max that I tried and referred to above (26th July 23:03), was written off last week. The lady was driving along the straight section of a country road at around 40mph when a Corsa attempted to cross, at speed, in front of her when he should have obeyed a 'Give Way' sign. The smash was so bad that both cars were written off and the air ambulance was summoned. The said friend and her toddler g'daughter were badly shaken but, apart from a bit of seatbelt bruising, were OK.
There have been a number of crashes at this crossroads, and questions should be asked of the county council. The road markings have been worn to practically nothing, and the signs are obscured by vegetation and/or covered in alga.
Friend has already sussed out a replacement B-max and, I understand, will take ownership of the new one tomorrow.
Meanwhile, we've only done about 800 miles in ours, and we're very pleased with it; I'll cobble a review together when I know it a bit better!
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Great that all occupants are OK!
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It is always sobering when you hear of someone suffering such an accident when driving properly themselves.
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Ford - A B-max? - Zero
