I want an SUV (for looks, space, higher seating) as my next car. Shortlisted few models. But one thing I can't make up my mind whether to go for FWD or AWD spec.
AWD cars are more expensive (whether buying new or used like-for-like over FWDs), consumes more fuel, costs more to maintain/more things to go wrong without any tangible benefit.
I have driven Land Rover off road but I am never going to perform that type of adventure using my own car!
Better snow handling doesn't count as advantage because proper tyre has more influence than AWD and also in South East we hardly get snow to warrant AWD.
Those who bought AWD car, what drove your decision over choosing a 2WD? Did you travel anywhere with the AWD where a 2WD would not make it? Or you ended up buying AWD just because toys you wanted only available in AWD trim?
Is there any real advantage other than vanity of owning AWD?
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In a word no.
As you say, the right tyres are more important..
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA
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>> I want an SUV (for looks, space, higher seating) as my next car. I can't make up my mind >> whether to go for FWD or AWD spec.
You wont get Looks, you wont get space, had either been true I wouldn't be buying a 5 Series Touring.
>> Is there any real advantage other than vanity of owning AWD?
I went for AWD in mine because I shall be driving it up muddy farm tracks, into around and out of wet fields
Of course AWD (Large) SUVs come into their own when towing a caravan.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 22 Aug 17 at 14:43
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An MPV?
The new Scenic is very nice
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I have been to some muddy farm tracks in 2WD car and never got stuck :-)
I think ground clearance plays a bigger role here than AWD. As per my understanding, to get advantage of AWD, one front wheel needs to be off the ground - which can happen only during serious off roading.
If wheel spins on ground (e.g. snow, slush, mud) then it can be overcome either by ESC or proper tyre.
Another aspect is that having AWD means I might be trying to go somewhere where I would not be going in a FWD car. For example, beaches, excessive muddy fields etc. This false sense of security might lead to more difficult situations.
>> MPV
SUV = MPV + additional ground clearance :o)
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AWD does make a difference to traction in normal/wet driving conditions on the road too. You don't need it but it can make a difference.
Anyone remember the TG stunt where the rugby team stopped a powerful rear-wheel drive MB AMG model of some kind. Once it lost traction it lost out. Why do you think Audi, MB and BMW have offered AWD on their road cars for ages. Okay MB and BMW didn't offer it in the UK until fairly recently but in Europe they did.
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No, you don't need 4x4 especially in the south-east. We've been skiing in Europe at least once a year for the last 12 years and have only ever had 2wd ... with winter tyres.
>> SUV = MPV + additional ground clearance :o)
>>
... with much less room inside.
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>> No, you don't need 4x4 especially in the south-east. We've been skiing in Europe at
>> least once a year for the last 12 years and have only ever had 2wd
>> ... with winter tyres.
>>
That's a point, if you take your car abroad at certain times/areas you would need winter tyres or chains whether or not it's AWD.
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>> That's a point, if you take your car abroad at certain times/areas you would need
>> winter tyres or chains whether or not it's AWD.
>>
Correct. And so if you are going to need winter tyres anyway which will give you the grip you need, why bother with AWD as well?
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>> Correct. And so if you are going to need winter tyres anyway which will give
>> you the grip you need, why bother with AWD as well?
>>
Agreed!
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>> Correct. And so if you are going to need winter tyres anyway which will give
>> you the grip you need, why bother with AWD as well?
Because more grip is better than less grip.
There's a whole family of possible threads here. Do I need 300bhp? Fat tyres? A heated steering wheel? HID headlamps?
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>>Do I need 300bhp? Fat tyres? A heated steering wheel? HID headlamps?
Voice-activated climate control ...?
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>> >>Do I need 300bhp? Fat tyres? A heated steering wheel? HID headlamps?
>>
>> Voice-activated climate control ...?
Not a good idea with dual zone, you and the wife would be arguing
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If you are driving anything more than a basic Fiesta you are driving with a whole raft of stuff you do not need.
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>> If you are driving anything more than a basic Fiesta you are driving with a whole raft of stuff you do not need.
>>
Fiesta ? Pure luxury Wots wrong with a 2CV? Eggs is happiness!
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I have to drive up this www.flickr.com/photos/43576259@N04/7350707002/in/dateposted-public/ steep hill when I leave my isolated moorland quintessential Cornish country cottage :) which is why I got the Subaru Forester, and its replacement a Honda CR-V.
THIS is what (the downhill section) looks like iced up:
www.flickr.com/photos/43576259@N04/8405226970/in/dateposted-public/
Do I need AWD?
Do I f**k, it's only been iced up like that once in the 6.5 years I've lived here :o)
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As you suggest the tyres right tyres are more important that AWD.
Winter tyres on a 2WD are better that summer tyres on a AWD in snow and ice.
That being said if I were to buy an X1, X3, Kuga, Evoque SUV genre vehicle I think I would err towards the 4x4 versions otherwise they seem to be kind of fake SUVs, is the expression Chelsea tractors?
That being said I don't envisage buying an SUV and if I felt the need for AWD would probably go for a convention 1/3 Series X-Drive or a Quattro etc.
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Those who bought AWD car, what drove your decision over choosing a 2WD?
In 2007 when buying a car I had the choice of a one year old Honda CRV or a brand new Seat Altea. I took the Altea. I kept that for six years during which time we had two of the worst winters I have experienced. I got stuck at work for one night when the whole of Central Scotland ground to a halt. I never got stuck at any other time.
In 2013 I replaced the Altea with a Hyundai ix35 2.0 CRDI AWD. I had wanted the IX35 for a while, it came with lots of toys inc the twin sunroofs and I felt that of I got the AWD then it would be the complete car for me.
During the two years we had it, we had two of the mildest winters on record. I actually drove up to the Cairngorms one day just to try and see some snow! Although I liked the car, the fuel economy was really poor - it struggled to get anything better than about 38mpg and that was driving like a nun!
As a guy, yes I would like another AWD to have the smugness of being able to drive past folk who are stuck in snow. Reality? In the bad winter we had, the roads were littered with Range Rovers and the like all stuck either in snow drifts or behind other vehicles that couldnt move.
Unless your own drive is going to need it eg fields, country lanes etc then I would say no!!
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A range Rover is undriveable in summer on the local side roads. It's too big and too expensive to scratch the paint by going into the verge to pass another car on single track roads..
And when it snows, it gets stuck like everyone else behind someone else who is stuck...
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You have answered your own question, no you don't need it.
Do you want it? I don't need a 42" TV or a bean to cup coffee machine, but I have them.
I won't bore you with the detail of the Outlander's three modes, but in dry conditions I use what is essentially front wheel drive. If it's raining I use 4WD Auto - variable torque proportion to rear wheels, but always some. Much better for launching out of junctions without incipient wheelspin and unwanted TC intervention, especially when towing. In proper snow (three involuntary times I can recall in the last 6 years!) I will use 4WD lock which sends more torque the the back, and allows less "centre diff" slip. It is also useful on wet grass which is often encountered when caravanning.
On one of those snowy occasions it really made a difference. Our holiday in Herefordshire ended one day in January, and it snowed heavily the night before. We left early and drove to Lockerbie, in fallen and falling snow as far as the M62. Much of the A49 was snow covered, with a couple of jacknifed lorries in front of stuck cars that we just drove around, through the deeper stuff. The road became blocked by traffic behind us quite soon after.
It wouldn't have been the end of the world had we not had AWD - we would have stayed another night, like the two other couples who had been there with us - the hotel had the space, because the arriving guests couldn't get there...
I like the extra level of confidence, but it has to be said that in urban areas it isn't snow that stops you it is other people who block the roads - some of them in four wheel drives!
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A colleague used to travel across from Sheffield to Manchester on a regular basis so he got a long wheelbase Land Rover.... In winter it made no difference to getting over because he was stuck behind other normal 2WD vehicles.
For normal driving I don't think AWD over 2WD provides much and the right tyres in winter will make all the difference. Indeed many premium AWD cars have low profile tyres so are useless off road too. But AWD does make a difference for a performance car.
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>>But AWD does make a difference for a performance car.
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At risk of a thread drift it depends on how you define a performance car and what difference you think AWD makes.
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From time to time I have had AWD vehicles. But the majority of cars I've had were 2WD and a fair number of those were the so called undriveable in winter, RWD. As I've mentioned ( probably ad nauseam ) I've had to travel long distances for many years in all weathers both in this country ( including its wildest and wooliest parts ) and in continental Europe including the Alps in winter.
I can think of two ( separate) days in those 42 years when for a stretch of less than 200 yards on each occasion, when 4WD either was, or would have been particularly useful.
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Further to my above, just in case that reads as being a bit dismissive, I think there's a great deal of difference between "need" and "want" as with many automotive features.
AWD is nice to have, in the way that a big powerful engine is nice to have, or heated seats, or an automatic gearbox, or indeed a sunroof ! But very few people actually "need" those things and plenty of other add ons besides, but I can see that it's a "nice to have", if you want it. Still can't really say I've ever "needed" it and I certainly don't feel deprived when driving anything without it.
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OP says he lives in SE England where (excepting a few pockets) serious snow is pretty well unknown in last quarter century. When it does happen even minorly so few people know how to drive in it that if not stuck behind you'll be part of their accident.
If you live in the Peaks, Dales or Pennines it's different. I was brought up near Ilkley and the original 4*4 Panda was very popular amongst those living up towards it's famous Moor.
Thought about a 4*4 Yeti for towing the caravan. While I can always get it on/off pitches with it's motor mover the Belringo's front wheels occasionally scrabble slightly on open road hill starts. So far ever enough to be more than a chirrup but might be a real issue under seriously adverse conditions.
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No. Unless required for specifics... livestock vet, tow sheeps to auction from fields, go 'off roading ' and mess up lovely old walled lanes in t'Dales.
Over almost 7 years my RWD 330 got me everywhere I needed on tarmac, although it was fitted with all season Michelin Alpins, which made a massive difference when snow & sleet was on the ground. On several occasions I would not have got home without them, and the extra cost far outweighed potential B & B expenses. I exaggerate not, but I do live in rural N Yorks.
Unfortunately my new car is only available with AWD. Don't want it. Don't need it.
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You could have bought a Cayman ...
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In which case I wouldn't have sold my 330. Interestingly I had a good look at one yesterday, and even thought about asking for a test drive after returning from a blast in the GTS over Shap.
The ONLY reason for buying a ' sitty uppy' is my goosed hip, getting worse by the month. I don't suppose my imminent 16 day hut to hut trip in the Alps on the GR5 will do it much good. Dosed up with lots of paracetamol every day, and cocodamin ? in case the pain gets even worse.
I asked the doc about steriodal injections into the hip, and 'pain patches' whatever they are. He suggested the paracetamol. I'll just have to grin & bear it, reduce my carried load as much as possible, and in a worst case scenario come home early.
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>> Is there any real advantage other than vanity of owning AWD?
>>
You have put your finger on the entire purpose of car ownership itself.
All is vanity. (Ecclesiastes 1-12)
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We often differentiate between Need and Want.
However, I think we need (or want?) to introduce few other parameters :-)
Want and will make use of the feature ( = desirable)
Want but not sure if will make use of the feature (= fancy)
Given (did not want but had no choice as it is bundled)
For many drivers, AWD is a given feature as same trim can't be obtained in 2WD mode.
For my next car, Adaptive Cruise Control is a desirable feature.
I fancy electric seat adjustment however, if manual seat adjust feels uncomfortable then electric seat becomes a need.
I don't need AWD. I do fancy AWD and in this thread I am looking to figure out whether AWD is desirable.
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>> whether to go for FWD or AWD spec.
Do you mean Front Wheel Drive or Four Wheel Drive?
I sometimes go into the mountains in a 2WD car, and its ok, but a front wheel drive car? Dear God no, I hate that.
Assuming you mean 2WD vs 4WD/AWD, I don't think I have ever engaged 4WD in a city. I can't think of anytime I have needed it in the countryside. But it is a huge advantage off road or on significant snow.
For me its the need/have, have/need situation. Its far, far better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.
Kind of depends where you drive and in what circumstances.
By the way, as Zero said, if you're after looks and space, then I don't really understand why you are buying an SUV which typically have neither. In fact these days, now they're all plastic, its difficult to find one worth having for any practical reason beyond personal preference.
You can't even count on good ground clearance these days. Certainly not the sort of ground clearance one is likely to need if 4WD has become a necessity.
2WD/4WD is a decision not really connected to SUV/not SUV
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 23 Aug 17 at 13:06
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>> By the way, as Zero said, if you're after looks and space, then I don't
>> really understand why you are buying an SUV which typically have neither.
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Friends came round in their Porsche Macan at the weekend. Very nicely trimmed etc. inside, and reported as very nice to drive. But when you look how big and wide these things are, I was amazed how cramped it is inside. I couldn't sit upright in the back (which only has room for 2) and I'm only 6'0 tall.
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Quite so.
If you think I'm going to let anyone sit in the back of my GTS and start screaming when I reach V1, rotate, on certain quiet roads where I live then you are wrong.
Let them catch the (weekly) bus or hitch
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I hadswitchable drive on the Vitara. I only used 4WD once that I can remember. Forced off the tarmac near Reagill by a gaggle of cows, my n/s rear wheel spun on the muddy verge. Engaging 4WD got me off quickly.
The RAV has permanent 4WD and seems more sure footed on bends. But I only changed to get an extra 50 BHP for towing the 17 ft van. Handy for getting off wet grass, I suppose, although the motor-mover would cover that as well.
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I have the Kia Sportage 2Ltr Diesel AWD. Why did I go AWD? Dunno really. The next option is 1.7 diesel which is FWD. Seemed a bit of a small engine for the size of the vehicle.
Its just over 3 years old now. Love driving it. Feels solid. Averaging 38mpg during the summer which goes down to 35mpg in the winter. On a run can squeeze 40mpg out of it if I'm reasonably careful.
When I was looking at buying a medium sized SUV it became apparent that boot space was limited. Fancied the Kuga but its boot was really small. You get more space in a Focus estate.
And since I've had it don't think the AWD has even kicked in as we've had little snow for several years.
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>>And since I've had it don't think the AWD has even kicked in as we've had little snow for several years.
My Hyundai was basically same as your Kia.
Going out my street, the road goes round a sharp bend and up a hill. One very frosty morning i decided to throw the car round it in 2nd gear just to see what happened. Well the AWD kicked in, half way round the bend as, I assume, the inside front wheel started to spin on the incline. This totally changed the direction the car was going in and directed it into the kerb.
Now this was all controlled, expected, and nothing happened. However it always made me wary that if I did come into conditions suitable for AWD, I would select it manually rather than let the car trigger it at perhaps the worst possible time!
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Do I need AWD? - PR
