Motoring Discussion > Hybrids and floods	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: TheManWithNoName	Replies: 25

New Sat 6 Jan 18 21:37   Hybrids and floods - TheManWithNoName

A friend and I were recently chatting about driving through flood water in a hybrid. We wondered if electric motors mounted on the cars wheels could cope with being partially or fully submerged? Also, if you drove through water using the engine, then switched over to electric and your exhaust was under water, could water travel up the exhaust and cause an issue upon restarting the engine? Or would there be enough air pressure in the exhaust to keep water out? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 6 Jan 18 21:42   Hybrids and floods - Zero

teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/my-experience-with-a-flooded-model-s-in-houston.97246/ Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 7 Jan 18 09:46   Hybrids and floods - sherlock47

Good find - interesting well written post - worth a read by any owners or aspirants. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 7 Jan 18 17:22   Hybrids and floods - Lygonos

Not many cars survive a prolonged 2 foot bath in water and sewage: 10s of thousands of written off cars in Houston after the hurricane it suggests. No idea if the car shutting down in 9 inches of water was due to a failsafe for the high voltage battery or an actual failure. Apparently Tesla battery packs are now better sealed against water ingress. Part of the annual service for my car is to change 2 bags of silica gel dessicant(euphemistically referred to as dryer cartridges) that are inside the battery pack so it may be that a deep soak would be a bad idea for mine also. Haven't heard much about turbodiesels hydraulicking their engines recently - maybe manufacturers have shifting the air intake now? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 7 Jan 18 17:45   Hybrids and floods - Zero

>> Haven't heard much about turbodiesels hydraulicking their engines recently - maybe manufacturers have shifting the >> air intake now? Most have abandoned the idea of a low intake to get marginally cooler intake air, preferring instead to use an intercooler. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 7 Jan 18 18:40   Hybrids and floods - rtj70

Reading about that Tesla, it would be written off regardless of it being an electric car. The water would ruin the electric systems/ECUs in a petrol or diesel car. And the flood water would contaminate it. The owner might have a long wait if he wants a Model 3. Although I think they are now building a few thousand a week. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 7 Jan 18 18:55   Hybrids and floods - Auntie Lockbrakes

Model 3 production is stalled at only around 750/month (latest production figures for Oct-Dec.). He'd better be very patient..! Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 7 Jan 18 18:59   Hybrids and floods - rtj70

Model 3 production now into the thousands I am told by my brother. Who (a) has a Tesla and (b) has visited the factory a few times apparently. I only have his word for it though. He tells me the problem was more with the new batteries than actual car production. Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 7 Jan 18 at 18:59 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 04:50   Hybrids and floods - Auntie Lockbrakes

- Nope, not yet it ain't. Q4 production volumes were revealed last week: fewer than 2600 Model 3s in the quarter! Search Google - it seems that the Chevy Bolt comfortably outsold the 3. If Musk doesn't get it right soon Tesla are toast... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 08:23   Hybrids and floods - Lygonos

Most of that 2600 will have been made in December. I see Musk is still understating Model 3's performance to presumably keep sales on Model S from diving. Tesla official figures for the Model 3 with big battery are 0-60 in 5.1s and 310miles EPA range. Real world tests show it doing 0-60 in 4.6-4.7s and 335miles of range. Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 8 Jan 18 at 08:25 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 09:38   Hybrids and floods - rtj70

I'll believe what my brother says over Google. He's a bit nearer to the source of news than you or I. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 11:13   Hybrids and floods - Manatee

Believe what Tesla says. Tesla said it delivered 29,870 vehicles in the fourth quarter of 2017, including 1,550 of its anticipated Model 3 sedan. Tesla said it produced 24,565 vehicles total during the quarter, of which 2,425 were Model 3 cars. www.cnbc.com/2018/01/03/tesla-q4-2017-production-and-delivery-numbers.html That is very poor compared with previous forecasts. I'd be surprised if Tesla ran out of cash, although it will undoubtedly need to raise large amounts of capital - provided it can hit Musk's forecasts for Q1/Q2 then the market will stump up. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 11:52   Hybrids and floods - Zero

All this underlines what I said earlier. There is a very big shift indeed, in skills, capabilities, and mind set to move from a technology / design company to a mass produced car manufacturer. There are very good reasons why there have been very few new players doing it, and those that try contract out manufacturing to those who have the experience Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 14:12   Hybrids and floods - madf

As I understand it, Tesla's expertise lies in batteries. And the 3 delay is caused by battery production failures..Which sounds like a fundamental design/manufacturing flaw. See Samsung exploding batteries...they ended up stopping producing it completely. So if they cannot get battery production right in volume, they are stuffed... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 14:31   Hybrids and floods - smokie

Not sure there is much wrong with their battery production is there? www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/11/28/16709036/elon-musk-biggest-battery-100-days And a slightly more upbeat analysis of the recently announced results tinyurl.com/ycqrxwzk Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 15:07   Hybrids and floods - Lygonos

>>See Samsung exploding batteries...they ended up stopping producing it completely Wasn't the battery per se, but cramming it into too tight a space, asking it to do too much, and be incapable of staying cool did for it. >>And the 3 delay is caused by battery production failures The Model 3 uses a pack filled with a new cell size - some issues with mechanising the pack builds (blamed on contractors failing to deliver apparently but who knows) have hamstrung production rates. The quality of the end product appears excellent for a brand new model (certainly compared to Model S and X when they first came out) but they probably have infinity man hours of QC waiting for the batteries just now! If it was in the showroom now for £40k I'd have snapped one up. The problem of course is that it isn't and won't be for 18-24 months minimum in RHD.... Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 8 Jan 18 at 15:09 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 16:39   Hybrids and floods - rtj70

>> As I understand it, Tesla's expertise lies in batteries. Tesla does not make the actual lithium ion cells that go into their 'battery packs'. They have a joint venture with Panasonic with half the Gigafactory run by Panasonic making the cells. Previously to the Gigafactory, the cells were made elsewhere. For the Model S and X, Tesla used the standard 18650 cells but they are using a new cell design for the Model 3. They are having no issues making the 18650 cells at the Gigafactory so presumably there have been issues with the 2170 cells which are key to the cheaper car - the cells are bigger (21mm diameter and 70mm long as opposed to 18mm diameter and 65mm long). Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 16:54   Hybrids and floods - rtj70

Actually, are the cells in a Tesla battery pack lithium ion? I'm not sure but had assumed they would be.... maybe something a little cheaper is used? Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 8 Jan 18 at 16:55 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 18:49   Hybrids and floods - Hard Cheese

>> Actually, are the cells in a Tesla battery pack lithium ion? >> I'm pretty sure that they are. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 19:16   Hybrids and floods - Lygonos

>>Actually, are the cells in a Tesla battery pack lithium ion Yes. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 20:17   Hybrids and floods - rtj70

After my initial post I read on in an article about the chemistry in the batteries and it got me wondering. Hence my subsequent post. It makes sense they are li-ion for now. They need to be even more dense in terms of capacity to get costs down. As for the original question.... I'd hope a 100kWh battery is well sealed because the energy in that would be lethal. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 22:21   Hybrids and floods - Lygonos

About the energy contained in 10 litres of petrol. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 22:38   Hybrids and floods - bathtub tom

A road test of a prototype plug-in hybrid Land Rover in the Telegraph on Saturday stated the batteries and electronics were under the floor. I wonder what the claimed wading depth will be? Last edited by: bathtub tom on Mon 8 Jan 18 at 22:38 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 23:42   Hybrids and floods - rtj70

>>About the energy contained in 10 litres of petrol. So drive through 12 inches of water in a petrol car and you're at risk of ruining the engine. What will happen in an electric car? Are occupants safe? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 8 Jan 18 23:50   Hybrids and floods - Lygonos

>>So drive through 12 inches of water in a petrol car and you're at risk of ruining the engine. What will happen in an electric car? Are occupants safe? Safe enough - the battery trips a failsafe or shorts out presuming not adequately waterproof - no risk of electrocution as no electricity flows to the passengers - no real risk of fire as the water stops the battery overheating. Safer than carrying 50 kilograms of hugely inflammable liquid in a crash too obviously. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 9 Jan 18 00:07   Hybrids and floods - rtj70

I'd rather a flooded car than this: www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/cars/2018/01/08/TELEMMGLPICT000142243793_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqaM1ZPo2Ndi5Uwn7vMhEdFwM1RN124t0I666CPPbOsGA.jpeg Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 9 Jan 18 at 00:08 Reply to this message | Report message