Motoring Discussion > F1 and general motorsport discussion - Vol 36 Miscellaneous
Thread Author: VxFan Replies: 107

 F1 and general motorsport discussion - Vol 36 - VxFan

As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).


PLEASE NOTE:-

To try and maintain some kind of logical order of discussion, if you start a new subject then REPLY to this post and REMEMBER to change the default subject header.


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Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:44
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Rudedog
Just heard that Lewis Hamilton has lost his case in the EC where he claimed a trademark on his name 'Hamilton'.

I would question the lawyers who said that this was a runner considering the historic companies sharing the same name.

 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Duncan
Seems to be rather a shame and a bit silly?

I wonder if he had said "why don't we put our heads together on this and perhaps see if we can work out something between us?"
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Manatee
It does seem a bit odd but as Hamilton has a company to manage his IP/marks they presumably picked up on the application and received advice. Hamilton probably endorses watches so there is a potential conflict. No doubt he has 'people' doing this for him. I would.
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Zero
Who is us? The hundreds of millions of people round the world called Hamilton? The thousands of companies called Hamilton? The numerous stage plays around the world called Hamilton?

It was a complete non starter. The clue to doing this is that round the world he is known as "lewis Hamilton". thats should have been a good clue for a trademark.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Nov 20 at 12:31
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - helicopter
According to the Telegraph ,Hamilton was 125 years too late....

Hamilton watches of Switzerland could prove categorically that they had been trading under that name since 1895.
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Manatee
>> According to the Telegraph ,Hamilton was 125 years too late....
>>
>> Hamilton watches of Switzerland could prove categorically that they had been trading under that name
>> since 1895.
>>
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Manatee
>> According to the Telegraph ,Hamilton was 125 years too late....
>>
>> Hamilton watches of Switzerland could prove categorically that they had been trading under that name
>> since 1895.


It makes a good story I suppose, but I'm sure everybody knew that Hamilton is an established watch brand, even I did.

This will be about specific product categories (possibly smart watches?) and markets, and probably variants on the trademarks. IIRC Hamilton (the watches), at least latterly, has been primarily a brand for North America. If the mark had not been previously used or protected in Europe then there might have been scope for an argument.
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Manatee
I've been looking for a source that is more illuminating than either the DT or the DM, without much success.

This implies that is is slightly more complicated - according to this report IP44 attempted to trademark "Lewis Hamilton" in relation to watches etc. which is not quite the same thing, and Swatch succeeded in preventing that. It also reports that IP44 attempted to void Swatch's trademark in Europe which may well have been a counter claim.

timeandtidewatches.com/hamilton-vs-hamilton-f1-superstar-lewis-hamilton-loses-legal-battle-with-hamilton-watches/
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 20 Nov 20 at 15:48
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - No FM2R
"44IP attempted to trademark the name “Lewis Hamilton” for a number of goods including watches, smartwatches and jewellery. But Hamilton watches challenged the move.

Doesn't seem unreasonable for 44IP to try to do that and I wonder on what grounds Swatch challenged that. Difficult to think how confusion could occur.
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Bromptonaut
>> Doesn't seem unreasonable for 44IP to try to do that and I wonder on what
>> grounds Swatch challenged that. Difficult to think how confusion could occur.

Is it connected with Swatch owning the Hamilton watch brand?
 Bahrain - No FM2R
.

I can see no way of commenting without giving stuff away. Probably best to have a look at the BBC F1 page if you're interested. Quite the event.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 29 Nov 20 at 14:45
 Bahrain - No FM2R
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMXi1yoevN4

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5-zXx0KC98
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 29 Nov 20 at 14:50
 Bahrain - Bobby
The half of the car just sliced through the barrier like a tin opener. How the hell he came out that alive!
 Bahrain - maltrap
He was saved by the halo. The barrier should be altered to run more parallel to the track.
 Bahrain - wotspur
Have little interest in F1 , but that was a hell of a crash , a d thankfully the driver walked away unscathed . So nice that since 2 deaths, Ratsenberger ? A s Senna ? in one race 20-30 years ago , I don’t think there have been any since .
Anyway If they decided to do another one in England , perhaps they coukd use the M25 or M42 as the track ......add a few 100 European lorries ,and it coukd make it interesting
 Bahrain - Robin O'Reliant
>> Have little interest in F1 , but that was a hell of a crash ,
>> a d thankfully the driver walked away unscathed . So nice that since 2 deaths,
>> Ratsenberger ? A s Senna ? in one race 20-30 years ago , I don’t
>> think there have been any since .
>>
>>
Jules Bianchi at the Japanese GP in 2014.

Remarkable really if you consider that between 1968 and 1978 eleven drivers died while racing and a few more when testing or practicing.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Sun 29 Nov 20 at 20:53
 Bahrain - smokie
"Jules Bianchi at the Japanese GP in 2014."

Although he survived in hospital for over a year after it IIRC.

I suppose the armco was in a place where only a fairly freaky sort of incident would out a car anywhere near it. But that;'s what they ought to be legislating for these days I suppose. I remember at one of the last Le Mans races a bloke went quite a bit off the track and hit the armco just where there was a big tree behind it, which prevented it flexing at all and he died from the impact. They re-designed that bit of track.
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R
Lewis Hamilton to miss Sakhir GP after testing positive for coronavirus

www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55142428

"on Monday, he was ... informed that a contact "prior to arrival in Bahrain" had tested positive"

If I was Lewis Hamilton, "a contact" would be properly on my s*** list.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 1 Dec 20 at 14:03
 Sakhir GP - smokie
When they had the F1 in Portugal recently, on the Thursday night there were four gobby blokes drinking too much in a bar I visited and they were apparently the F1 truck drivers for one of the teams and weren't really being adequately cautious, despite warnings from the bar keeper - which is why I didn't stay long.

And Red Bull were rumoured to have hired a hotel (or somesuch) not far from where we were for a post-race party for up to 200. May not have been true and may have been done safely. Who knows?
 Sakhir GP - VxFan
>> Lewis Hamilton to miss Sakhir GP after testing positive for coronavirus

George Russell (Williams driver) is taking up the hot seat in his absence.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55152354
 Sakhir Grand Prix: first practice - No FM2R
This could end up being very embarrassing for Bottas.

www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55190880

On another subject, does anybody know why testing is limited? Why aren't the drivers and manufacturers simply allowed to do as much testing as they want?
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:46
 Sakhir Grand Prix: first practice - Manatee
>>On another subject, does anybody know why testing is limited?

Cost and so as not to disadvantage smaller/less well funded teams. The big teams/manufacturers would just test day and night, have their own tracks etc.

They also limit e.g. wind tunnel time.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:47
 Sakhir Grand Prix: first practice - No FM2R
Makes sense, I suppose. But I would have thought that a better solution could have been found.

What stops them building a third, identical car and testing the nuts out of that? Other than not letting one of their main drivers sit in it.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:47
 Sakhir Grand Prix: first practice - Zero
>> Makes sense, I suppose. But I would have thought that a better solution could have
>> been found.
>>
>> What stops them building a third, identical car and testing the nuts out of that?
>> Other than not letting one of their main drivers sit in it.

The testing rules are nothing to do with the drivers, or the number of cars, it applies to the team in any racing year.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:47
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R
Well now, you'd think someone was going to get sacked in the morning.

Russell is clearly damned good though.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - bathtub tom
Proves to me, any reasonably competent driver in a Merc can wipe the floor with the opposition.

No, I'm not a fan of Hamilton.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R
It's a car/driver combo, and a good driver significantly contributes to the development of the car. The teams aren't stupid, they wouldn't pay millions to a driver if "any reasonably competent driver" could perform just as well.

I can't really be a***d to get caught up with the haters who seemingly need to believe that whoever is winning is nothing special. Whoever it is. I think it must be some kind of self defence mechanism.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - Zero
>> Proves to me, any reasonably competent driver in a Merc can wipe the floor with
>> the opposition.

He didnt tho did he, he came 9th.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - bathtub tom
>> He didnt tho did he, he came 9th.

After a puncture.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - Zero
>> >> He didnt tho did he, he came 9th.
>>
>> After a puncture.

Ran off line maybe? a more experienced driver may not have.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - smokie
He'd also been called back in to sort out the bad tyre change.

Feel sorry for the guy, he could and should have won. But he'll get other opportunities, especially after that performance - even in a Merc!

Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R
>> Proves to me, any reasonably competent driver in a Merc can wipe the floor with the opposition.

And quite clearly Russell is not "any reasonably competent driver".
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:53
 Sakhir GP - PR
I'm no Hamilton fan either.

I think Russell will end up in the same league as Max and Leclerc (ie better than the rest)

To be fair to Hamilton he has made some very good team choices. If you compare him with Alonso, who is widely regarded as being on a par with any "great", he made some terrible decisions and had decisions made for him because of his attitude. Hamilton has judged (and some luck) to be in the best car
 Sakhir GP - Robin O'Reliant
I seem to be one of the few who do like Hamilton. I don't always agree with him but he speaks his mind which is a refreshing change from all the so called "Celebrities" who just spout the bull their PR people have written for them.

He is also disliked because he's a winner, which doesn't go down well with the British public - at least till their careers are over and we then get all nostalgic about how great they were and isn't it a shame we don't have anyone that good now.
 Sakhir GP - smokie
You aren't alone RoR - I m a Lewis fan too, though I tend not really to have favourites ( - but then I don't get why people support a footy team halfway up the country rather than their local one either!).

There are currently some very good/promising drivers who, like Hamilton, have been racing since they were "a lad". This must be good for the sport and while it can obviously favour one team or another depending on their engines/tyres/budget/whatever.

However I don't think it's necessary to put them all in the same car just to see who is the best driver, though that does happen in some classes of racing and it is also very watchable. F1 is the pinnacle though, so all of the drivers are really top class.
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R

>> He is also disliked because he's a winner, which doesn't go down well with the
>> British public

The British public, or at least the internetting part, seems to have a real problem with the success of an individual. I don't know if it is resentment, jealousy, or a fear that the success of someone else points out what a inadequate person they are/feel, but it is an awful behaviour.

It is not dissimilar to the joy that football fans take in the failure of another team. Given that most football fans choose the team they support at an early age form the newspapers, it is in any case a fake ´support´. But even with that, I can understand to an extent the joy in the success of a team that one has arbitrarily chosen to support, but the joy in the failure of another team is quite beyond me.

That that's aside from the copious use of "we" and "our" as if some way they had some relevance to the team or it's performance beyond subsidising it by sucking up their merchandising.

I often read the comments below BBC articles, I do hope that the majority of contributors are vulnerable anti-vaxxers,


>> I seem to be one of the few who do like Hamilton. I don't always
>> agree with him but he speaks his mind which is a refreshing change from all
>> the so called "Celebrities" who just spout the bull their PR people have written for
>> them.

He is a racing driver, not a thought leader. I find the way that the media and it's lemmings hang on his every word tiresome.

But he is a driven man and a superb driver. And I enjoy watching him race.
 Sakhir GP - Manatee
Hamilton gets hate way above and beyond what might be related to just winning a lot.

I'm certainly not suggesting racism is the motivation for anybody who just doesn't think he has an appealing personality, but it's difficult to believe that it isn't present in much of the vicious bile poured out on various internet fora and e.g. the "I Hate Lewis Hamilton" Facebook page - which describes itself as "Just a little spot to talk about F1 without the Hamilton fanboy Troll's hijacking every single post", yet the majority of post are simply Hamilton abuse.

I have already (posts passim) said I think he is a phenomenon as a driver and frankly I can't see what he is doing wrong. His other interests aren't mine but so what? I certainly have no problem with him using his position as a celeb to promote his campaigning interests, why wouldn't he?
 Sakhir GP - Robin O'Reliant
>> Hamilton gets hate way above and beyond what might be related to just winning a
>> lot.
>>
>>
There is an element of racism in it, but the resentment of British sportsmen dominating is peculiar to this country. Steve Davis got similar hatred when he was dominating snooker in the eighties and Chris Froome gets the same reactions from cycling fans despite being one of the sports all time Tour de France greats, an astonishing reaction when you think that just ten years ago no British rider had even come close. Nick Faldo wasn't too popular either.

We seem far more comfortable with our Eddie the Eagles and Frank Brunos, plucky losers who were good for a laugh.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Wed 9 Dec 20 at 14:05
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R
>>We seem far more comfortable with our Eddie the Eagles and Frank Brunos, plucky losers who were good for a laugh

Perhaps because 'we' don't find them threatening, intimidating and they don't cause 'us' to feel inadequate.

I can't otherwise think of any reason that it bothers people so much. Though I think it is probably true to say that mostly it bothers the mouthy ones rather than the majority.
 Sakhir GP - hawkeye
If you had been perplexed as to how Grosjean's car penetrated the barrier, this video may help with the explanation. I found it clear and believable. I didn't believe the misspelling of 'conscious' though.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAeQHfwtr5s
 Abu Dhabi GP - henry k
Latest re Hamilton.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55235331

IMO, in the video he did not seem to be his usual self.
 Abu Dhabi GP - VxFan
Even if he is fit for this weekend's race, I think he should do the gentlemanly thing and let George Russell have another play in his car.

LH has won the drivers championship, Mercedes have won the team championship.
Other than another race win for LH, (which he no doubt win many more in his remaining F1 career) what else is there for him to achieve?
 Abu Dhabi GP - Zero
Hes a winning F1 racing driver, they have never been gentlemanly about anything. Specially not a team mate.
 Abu Dhabi GP - No FM2R
>>Even if he is fit for this weekend's race, I think he should do the gentlemanly thing and let George Russell have another play in his car.

I wouldn't. That would be a ridiculous thing to do. How on earth could that ever be a good idea for him?

Aside from anything else such a man is driven to win. Not just win championship and stop. Driven to win always.

If he ever feels like he can step back from that I would expect him to stop racing, not just leave F1. Not likely.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 10 Dec 20 at 12:02
 Abu Dhabi GP - maltrap
I wonder, what effect, if any, Russel's performance will have on Mercedes contract negotiations with Hamilton.
 Abu Dhabi GP - No FM2R
More likely to have an impact on Bottas' role, I should think.
 Abu Dhabi GP - maltrap
I don't think Hamilton would want Russel as team mate. Too quick!
 Abu Dhabi GP - No FM2R
Possibly, but I'm not so sure. Hamilton doesn't strike me as a coward and does seem to fundamentally believe he can beat anybody with a level playing field. I think he'd believe and be unable to resist the challenge of beating Russell and proving yet another point.

So I don't think he'd have a problem with Russell being there.

I do think he'd have a problem if he (Hamilton) was not seen as *the* lead driver though.
 Abu Dhabi GP - No FM2R
www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55264873
 Abu Dhabi GP - smokie
Oh good, though it'd have also been good if Russell had had a second chance. His time will come though.
 Hamilton reaction - Zero
Watch Hamiltons reaction when he hears a proper F1* car giving it some beans

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hol6eel1uME


* 2005 V10 Renault R25
 Hamilton reaction - henry k
A longer taster
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgv1iN9HR8
 Abu Dhabi - No FM2R
I reckon the highlights show will be about 5 seconds long. And even that'll be boring.
 Driver changes - henry k
Perez in Albon out
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55367539
 Driver changes - No FM2R
Fair after the season that both just had.

I note the 1 year contract though, presumably to see if Perez can keep it up and suspecting that he might not..
 Red Bull teams to take over Honda's engines - henry k
Red Bull teams to take over Honda's engines from 2022 season

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56068724
 A new signing - henry k
McLaren sign American teenager Ugo Ugochukwu

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56489106
 A-ha! - Mr Moo
The new commentator on Channel 4, Alex Jacques, sounds just like Dave Clifton on ‘I’m Alan Partridge’
 Bahrain GP - No FM2R
That was a pretty good race for the first one of the season.

Certainly not boring.

I won't mention the result until I think everybody will have seen it. But well worth watching.
 Bahrain GP - PR
It was a good race

Still unsure on 2 things.. Perez did 1 lap less than everyone else due to his parade lap issue.. That meant an extra parade lap that was then taken off the total lap count. Perez didn't do that lap??

Also quite why the kerb limits at turn 4 were not applied for the whole race to LH (I read 29 times he exceeded them) then penalise Max (which I agree with by the way).. seems a bit odd. The rule is you shouldn't have a lasting advantage.. and therefore why was LH going so wide on nearly every lap.. was it to gain a disadvantage??
 Bahrain GP - Manatee
Apparently the race director or whomever had said in writing on Friday that the track limits would be enforced in qualifying by deletion of times when limits were exceeded, but not in the race.

After Verstappen/Red Bull queried it during the race, that was verbally? revised (or clarified, depending which end of the telescope you are looking down) to the effect that track limits at turn 4 should be observed.

There's also the point that overtaking off track tends to be against the rules anyway although there might be argument about whether somebody had been forced off (as opposed to just blocked or squeezed while the blockee was not fully alongside, which would be fair if the blocker was on the racing line).

One might reasonably expect in general there to be a penalty or at least a warning if track limits were being crossed in order to gain an advantage - that's where the anomaly is IMO, because why would the drivers who were doing it on every lap - Hamilton and Bottas among them - be doing it otherwise?

I don't think it was very clear who had committed what infractions to be honest. It's as clear as mud in the report on Sky News
 Bahrain GP - Manatee
This on Fox reads as if Red Bull were exploded by their own petard - the warning that a breach of track limits at turn 4 would be penalised followed a query from Red Bull to race control, and that warning meant that Max was bang to rights and had to be penalised had he not given the place back.

www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport/formula-one/f1-2021-bahrain-grand-prix-max-verstappen-fury-at-track-limit-rules-news-lewis-hamilton-overtake-reaction/news-story/1026f05cc1d1aaf9f85bdd092fc80810

Unclear or elastic rules seem to be a feature of F1 and not a good one.
 Bahrain GP - smokie
Yes the track limits one ought to be defined in a cut and dried manner one way or another, not be open for negotiation and not be applied differently at different stages of the weekend.
 Bahrain GP - Zero
The rule is explicitly there to stop people overtaking outside the track.
 Bahrain GP - No FM2R
>>Yes the track limits one ought to be defined in a cut and dried manner one way or another

They are. You may not have all four of your tyres the other side of the line.

Red Bull complained when Mercedes did it which got Hamilton a message. And so they should have been more careful themselves.

As I recall from the commentary at the time, they only said there would be lenience in practice. Which seems very reasonable to me.
 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Zero
Just caught some headlines, Its going to be a half wet / half dry start, so I have fired up Kodi on the Firestick to watch it live. ( I hope one of my feeds cut out with 8 minutes to the start)
 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - No FM2R
Well, that was worth watching. I guess we better not discuss the result until later.

It's on Channel 4 at 6:30,
 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Zero
>> Well, that was worth watching. I guess we better not discuss the result until later.

It was, luckily my emergency feed change stayed stable for the entire race. Entertaining and I have a near neighbour to cheer on, the boy dun good.
 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - No FM2R
Could you email me a link to your feed please, I had terrible trouble today.
 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Zero
>> Could you email me a link to your feed please, I had terrible trouble today.

Well no, I cant really. It was Kodi, the add on was "the crew" but now the feed is inactive I cant see the link. It appeared to be Sky Sports via some obscure US cable channel sponsored by a cooking ingredients company!
 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - No FM2R
Ah, so I need to start with Kodi. I think I might even still have that installed but it never seemed to work that well. I was forever getting "no streams available". everytime I wanted to watch something.
 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Zero
It depends on your add-ins, my one seems quite good, tho I suspect I need to add a VPN to it.
Or bite the bullet and change the router for one with a VPN plug in.
 Turkish GP to replace Canadian GP - No FM2R
What could possibly go wrong?

"Turkish Grand Prix to replace Canadian Grand Prix on 2021 F1 calendar amid rise in coronavirus cases [in Canada]"

www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/56915817

"Turkey prepares for full lockdown amid rising COVID numbers"

www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/29/turkey-to-entering-full-lockdown-amid-rising-covid-19-cases
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 30 Apr 21 at 03:08
 Austrian GP to replace Turkish GP - No FM2R
Well, shocker, who could have seen this coming?

"Formula 1: Turkish Grand Prix cancelled"

www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/57115403

Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 15 May 21 at 11:26
 Portuguese GP - No FM2R
Another great one.

I'm enjoying this season more than anything in years.
 Portuguese GP - smokie
During the preamble on Saturday everyone was using the word undulating to describe the track. They weren't wrong!! It looked like a roller coaster ride in places! Often the TV seems to mask some of the hills so they must be pretty big.


There is an endurance race (European Le Mans) at that track (Portimaio) on my last planned full weekend in Portugal in Oct. It was the same last year, and was a week later than the GP. F1 weekend tickets were €200 upwards ( more for the grandstands - they had a limited crowd) but the ELMS race was €15 for the weekend, including wandering in and out of all the grandstands... hope I can get to it this year!
 Portuguese GP - hawkeye
>> During the preamble on Saturday everyone was using the word undulating to describe the track.
>> They weren't wrong!! It looked like a roller coaster ride in places! Often the TV
>> seems to mask some of the hills so they must be pretty big.
>>

I'm sure the view of the track was helped by the camera helicopter pilot following the contours; some of the shots following cars were way more adventurous than I remember. Hats off to the pilot!
 Portuguese GP - No FM2R
I'd assumed it was a drone, but perhaps you're right.
 Portuguese GP - smokie
There was a hump which the cars came over and a couple of times a helicopter was right over them, presumably filming. I'd also assumed it might be drones. I know some tracks use remote cameras on wire or rails. like you see along the pit lane.
 Spanish Grand Prix - No FM2R
Another interesting race.

I assume that Bottas will spend the evening on the naughty step.

Did I hear them saying that there was some rumour Bottas may be replaced mid season? That'd seem a bit heavy.
 Spanish Grand Prix - martin aston
Bottas sure didn’t help Hamilton by being slow to let him through. However Hamilton said in one of the post race interviews that he contemplated ignoring the instruction to pit when he was on Verstappen’s tail. Pretty much all drivers seem to take a view before responding to some insructions.
 Spanish Grand Prix - Zero

>> Pretty much all drivers seem to take a view
>> before responding to some insructions.

Completely different scenario. At the end of the day, the only one who really knows how the car feels and how its changing is the driver, the team are offering him a strategy.

Bottas OTH, was not in a position to win, was not improving, was slower than his team mate, had nothing to gain or lose other than pride, and vary nearly cost Hamilton a win because he refused to obey a not unreasonable request,

Bottas is not performing, not contributing to team performance, and is now being petulant. Of course his days are numbered.

Trouble is only drivers not in a team or those out of a contract are available. Which means unproven or dross.


 Spanish Grand Prix - Manatee
Seemed a bit odd to me, although we only get snatches of the radio talk. It might have helped had Hamilton known about the instruction.

Bottas is a top driver, but he isn't as good as Verstappen or Hamilton. And only one of them can win. Whether he is on the skids I'm not sure. Wolff will always be supportive until he isn't. In Bottas's favour things must be a lot easier to manage than Hamilton+Rosberg.

The big question is who really has the fastest car. Hamilton says RB are actually quicker, Verstappen the opposite. Both could be true depending on track, conditions etc.

I want to see Perez up there. Is Verstappen really so good that nobody can keep up with him in the same car?
 Spanish Grand Prix - Zero
>> Seemed a bit odd to me,

Its been brewing for a few years, started back here in Russian GP

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILzuOGKVSzo&t=45s&ab_channel=SigmanApex87

>>although we only get snatches of the radio talk.

In contrast to Bottas, listen to the cool down lap chatter with Lando....

youtu.be/UVsVSj2F_Cw?t=178.
 Monaco GP - No FM2R
And Monaco goes down, yet again, as the most tedious spectator event of the year.

Though the result will stir things up a bit. And I think the entire Mercedes team will be on the naughty step for the night.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 24 May 21 at 02:28
 Monaco GP - Robin O'Reliant
It's about time they ditched Monaco, it has long outlived it's worth.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 24 May 21 at 02:29
 Monaco GP - No FM2R
I think there was one overtake in the whole race.

It really is a pointless procession where on race day the driver has little influence in the result.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 24 May 21 at 02:29
 Monaco GP - Zero
>> It's about time they ditched Monaco, it has long outlived it's worth.

Its worth is not the racing, its worth is to the sponsors, who entertain all their important clients that weekend. No Monaco, fewer sponsors, less teams. Its the one race that can never be removed from the calendar.

As far as sport goes, its about the team for the whole weekend, The driver does his work in qualifying, on race day the team a:keep him there or b: bounce him up the order. Or in Mercedes case, bounce him down the order.........
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 24 May 21 at 02:29
 Monaco GP - No FM2R
>> Its worth is not the racing, its worth is to the sponsors, who entertain all
>> their important clients that weekend. No Monaco, fewer sponsors, less teams. Its the one race
>> that can never be removed from the calendar.

>> As far as sport goes, its about the team for the whole weekend, The driver
>> does his work in qualifying, on race day the team a:keep him there or b:
>> bounce him up the order. Or in Mercedes case, bounce him down the order.........

You're quite right, that's why I used the description that I did...

"as the most tedious spectator event of the year."

I'd assume that it also keeps the drivers that live there front and centre as well with the local great and good, which I am sure is advantageous for them.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 24 May 21 at 02:29
 Monaco GP - Zero
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoDu5Oti5pw
 Monaco GP - Zero
Re the above, they still hadn't got that nut off the day after, and were expecting to take a considerable period of time to get it off when they got the car back!
 Monaco GP - maltrap
Excellent video, as someone else mentioned "clarity & transparency"

This guy is too honest to be a politician, otherwise he'd be a very good one !

PS Who is he ?
 N24 - Nurburgring - Rudedog
The race is back to it's normal time in the year, 3rd to the 6th of June, just hope the race is dry as it makes such a difference.

Good thing about the N24 is that it's streamed FoC on YT.


 N24 - Nurburgring - smokie
That's good RudeDog, now in my diary.

I've been to the Ring a couple of times for endurance racing (never the 24h though because it always used to be way too close to Le Mans). Last time I went was for DTM. The great thing about it is being able to visit and go on or to watch at the Nordschliefe!! And that big bar with the stage close to the exit to the camping where I've seen some seriously heavy rock bands!!
 N24 - Nurburgring - Rudedog
I remember after the 2019 race I was at Goodwood and the winning team/car was in one of the side paddocks, the car was still covered in the dirty and bugs but virtually nobody recognised it so I was able to look inside without any problems... N24 always seems to go under the radar.

 N24 - Nurburgring - Zero
Passed by Lando Norris's pad on my daily dog walk this am, Seems he has a brand new orange McLaren road car - a 720s i think. Didnt have it last week.
 N24 - Nurburgring - Runfer D'Hills
All very well, but it'd be no good for a tip run now would it?
;-)
 N24 - Nurburgring - Rudedog
Fog fog fog.... race stopped at 11'ish last night and they are still waiting on the grid to restart.

Unfortunately bad weather like this has affected at least 7 of the last 10 yearly races.

 N24 - Nurburgring - Zero
Its running now, quite a few incidents. www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXlRJ0-ETyI
 N24 - Nurburgring - smokie
Yeah I went on late last night to find it stopped. Annoying.

It can also get really cold there overnight, as I found out once when camping!!

Fantastic having a stream from each car - just did a lap with Michael Christensen :-) www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRYmUk8b0MU
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 6 Jun 21 at 11:56
 Azerbaijan Grand Prix tyre failures - henry k
Pirelli say tyre failures caused by 'running conditions'

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57476106
Glad that is all now clear.
 Azerbaijan Grand Prix tyre failures - smokie
Hmmm if I were the FIA I'd send them back for a second attempt at that response. It was a major safety fail after all!!
 Azerbaijan Grand Prix tyre failures - bathtub tom
So what's going to happen this weekend, a repeat of that USA GP where the field did one lap and departed for the pits (apart from Ferrari IIRC)?
 Azerbaijan Grand Prix tyre failures - PR
Pirelli mandate a minimum start pressure but after that teams there are no checks, so they have used tricks like overheating the tyres for the measurement (now banned).

I notice new rules for next year mandate tyre pressure and temp sensors for all cars and data available to the FIA.
 French GP - Manatee
Anybody watch it?

Remarkably, everybody finished. Is the Red Bull now better than the Merc, or is Verstappen better than Hamilton?

The one thing that was missing from this was a real dogfight between the two. When Hamilton got ahead, it was a mistake by Verstappen. When Vertsappen caught and passed Hamilton at the end, he had much better tyres

The normal pattern, according to Coulthard, is for Verstappen to drive in such a way as to leave Hamilton with a choice of backing out or crashing. Hamilton will have to call his bluff, if it is a bluff, or there will be no change.
 French GP - bathtub tom
I reckon both the top protaganists are arogant *******s, which isn't a failure in their sport, however, I think one of them may have lost their edge.

Red Bull certainly had the better staticians it seems and I look forward to the rest of the season (although I'll still skim the highlights).

I'm aware the next round is at Red Bull's home territory.
 French GP - PR
I think in the whole of the hybrid era Mercedes havent had a challenge

Now they at last have someone who is challenging them and putting them under pressure, they are making mistakes.

I still think the Merc is the faster car overall, and it will ebb and flow mainly on tyres (switching on and degredation). Look at Ferrari, decent qualy pace but used their tyres and ended up 2 seconds a lap slower than the cars they out performed in qualy.
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