Any preferences ?
My customary 70 day pre Xmas and 90 day post Xmas trips to Spain will have to be apportioned 45/45 in the 180 day period so time to start planning routes there and back.
I’ve had lots of route feedback from my Spanish based friends...stuff to do en route, places to visit for a few days etc so a few hours poring over an atlas on a wet evening beckons.
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We have a similar problem with warm winters. Be aware that in principle the clock starts ticking as soon as soon as you hit the Schengen area - Calais etc.
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Yes. Fully appreciate that but thanks anyway.
I’m told the onus is on you to prove that your stay is within the 90 day period so been advised by Spanish friends to get my passport stamped.
Apocryphal stories are circulating of folks buying two outbound tickets a few months apart and only telling the authorities about the later arrival into the Schengen area. Obviously they travelled out on the first ticket. Passport wasn’t stamped on arrival, and I’ve no idea about whether the authorities crossed checked by some means or other.
I’m not going down that potential avenue of illegally extending the 90 day stay.
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Presumably a day trip to Gib or Tangier would reset the clock?
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...no; it's any 90 days in 180 consecutive days. Time outside the Schengen Zone won't go "on the clock", but it only (fully) resets every 180 days.
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>> ...no; it's any 90 days in 180 consecutive days. Time outside the Schengen Zone won't
>> go "on the clock", but it only (fully) resets every 180 days.
>>
I missed a few intended words off the endo of that, which might be misleading - it should say
.......but it only (fully) resets every 180 days completely outside the zone.
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I do wonder how the authorities will check the 90 days in 180?
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I’ve no idea.
If passports are scanned at the point of entry into the Schengen area...in my case possibly Dieppe, Calais or Alicante, there may be a central computer database which records entry and exit.
If passports are stamped at every entry point ( I don’t know) then the date stamp can be checked on exit and duration of stay worked out from that.
Elderly neighbours of mine, who did not vote for Brexit, aren’t very pleased. For the past 7 winters they’ve flown to Spain mid October, and returned late March. That is no longer possible, and similarly effected is a Scottish lady who I often walk with...she leaves Fort W same time and rents a small house every winter in a Spanish mountain village for cacahuetas. She’s heavy ragin.
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I suspect you'll be able to wing it for a couple of years, then when the EU esta comes into being it'll be harder to get around.
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I’d forgotten the USA esta allows visitors to stay for 90 days. Years ago I planned to walk the PCT which takes rather a long time, so obtained a VISA.
Plan A version 8, was to spend 70 days in Spain pre Xmas, sponge off my CA friends for 6 weeks early in the New Year, then use my final 20 days at the end of the 180 day period, then start over again.
There is a flaw in this plan. Namely entry into the US of A.
I don’t think telling the Dept of Homeland Security that my skis are stored under the deck at my friends home and I need to use them before they become obsolete would make much difference.
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>>Plan A version 8, was to spend 70 days in Spain pre Xmas, sponge off my CA friends for 6 weeks early in the New Year, then use my final 20 days at the end of the 180 day period, then start over again
It's a rolling 180 day period. Essentially on any given day, one counts back 180 days to see if one has yet exceeded 90 days.
The period doesn't reset as such, it simply keeps rolling.
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Yes
Version 8a....enter the Schengen area 24/09/21. Stay 70 days.
Re enter Schengen area 02/03/22 and stay the remaining allowable 20 days....which takes me up to 21/3/22....or 180 days since I first entered.
From the 22/3/22 my 90/180 allowance commences again
Please tell me I’m correct !!!!
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>> Yes
>> Version 8a....enter the Schengen area 24/09/21. Stay 70 days.
>> Re enter Schengen area 02/03/22 and stay the remaining allowable 20 days....which takes me up
>> to 21/3/22....or 180 days since I first entered.
>> From the 22/3/22 my 90/180 allowance commences again
>>
>> Please tell me I’m correct !!!!
You're not.
( I haven't worked out the exact number of days, but the point is clear)
You enter 24/09/21 and the 180 days starts counting. And that 180 days continues to 21/03/22
Thus, on the 21/03 you would look back over the 180 days to 24/09/21 and count the days you'd been in Schengen.
On the 22/03 you would look back over the 180 days to 25/09/21 and count the days you'd been in Schengen.
On the 23/03 you would look back over the 180 days to 26/09/21 and count the days you'd been in Schengen.
The period does not reset, it just carries on rolling. As today's date moves forward, so does the commencement date of the 180 days.
So if you had spent 90 days in the last 180 on 21/03, you would have spent 89 days in the last 180 on 22/03. You would have one day available. 2 days on the 23/03 etc.
Anytime you enter the Schengen zone, you just have to count backwards over the last 180 days and count how many of them have been spent in the Schengen zone
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 6 Jul 21 at 15:26
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>>
>> Anytime you enter the Schengen zone, you just have to count backwards over the last
>> 180 days and count how many of them have been spent in the Schengen zone
>>
Drat
After a late afternoon wander, gym then a bucket of beer with friends I’ll try to get my head around that later. Appreciated.
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Basically, as above, at any time you will always have less than 90 days available to you until/unless you've spent all of the last 180 days outside the Schengen Zone.
If you do a Google search, you'll find a number of "Schengen calculators" into which you can enter your past and future planned dates in the Schengen zone, and it will validate them (or not ;-) ).
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>> You enter 24/09/21 and the 180 days starts counting. And that 180 days continues to
>> 21/03/22
Many thanks.
I tried to compute it in the Talbot beer garden yesterday afternoon with friends, but after 15 hot miles and far too much beer the brain fried.
I’ll use the 90/180 online calculator now I’m sober!
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 9 Jul 21 at 20:19
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>>If passports are scanned at the point of entry into the Schengen area
I often watch a program called "Alerta Aeropuerto". Bit sad, standard watching Customs & Immigration thing, but I enjoy it.
Anyway, point being that when checking illegal immigration, they seem to be well able to check a passports entry and exit from other Schengen countries.
Land travel between Schengen countries will, one assumes, be a bit more challenging.
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>>Elderly neighbours of mine, who did not vote for Brexit, aren’t very pleased. For the past 7 winters they’ve flown to Spain mid October, and returned late March. That is no longer possible
It certainly is. How do you think people like me manage?
In this particular case they should ignore the EU/Schengen visas and look at the Spanish Long Stay visa. I think for them it would be the "Visados de residencia no lucrativa" which is aimed at those who will spend longer than three months in Spain but will not work.
One that is granted, and if you fit the financial requirements it's pretty easy, then whilst in Spain you can apply for the "Permiso de residencia no lucrativa en España"
Job done.
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Does an extended stay visa for one Schengen country get round the 90 day issue in all of them?
I assume in theory it shouldn't but in practice once you are in the area you simply get lost
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I doubt it would be an issue, especially if you entered and exited through the country you got the visa for. I'm not sure (baring any pretty unusual set of events) that you'd appear on anyone's radar.
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>> I doubt it would be an issue, especially if you entered and exited through the
>> country you got the visa for. I'm not sure (baring any pretty unusual set of
>> events) that you'd appear on anyone's radar.
If you'd got a visa for France and settled on the French side of the Rhine in Alsace then I doubt you'd be picked up for crossing the border to use Aldi Sud in Germany rather than Aldi Nord in France.
If you moved physically to live in Germany 'cos you'd met a German woman then I suspect it'd only be a matter of time before you were rumbled.
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Well yes, but I think we talking about people having long holidays not living/working there full time.
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>> Well yes, but I think we talking about people having long holidays not living/working there
>> full time.
I was thinking of progression from a long holiday where one was (as I or LL could be) financially self sufficient.
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>>If you'd got a visa for France and settled on the French side of the Rhine in Alsace then I doubt you'd be picked up for crossing the border to use Aldi Sud in Germany rather than Aldi Nord in France.
A visa for one Schengen country is a visa for all. Nothing to be picked up for.
>>If you moved physically to live in Germany
Then you would no longer be resident in Spain, you have no right to be resident in Germany, and I imagine you'd be caught pretty quickly since the Europeans are a lot less scared of ID cards than the British.
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>> A visa for one Schengen country is a visa for all. Nothing to be picked
>> up for.
Is that right? I was following up your remarks about Spanish visas for those who don't work and are, by implication, self sufficient.
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>>Is that right?
That is certainly my understanding, for the long stay residence permit that is.
This has lots of good stuff.
eeas.europa.eu/sites/default/files/frequently_asked_questions_en.pdf
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>>Does an extended stay visa for one Schengen country get round the 90 day issue in all of them?
Yes. It's a pretty standard visa, similar to the one I have for Latin America other than the work restriction, which I do not have.
The "Visados de residencia no lucrativa" is initially for 12 months, renewable twice for 24 months each and the third renewal grants you long term residence and the renewal term is 5 years.
You may not carry out any economic activity for any company which operates in Spain. However, you may work for a company which does not operate in Spain. Remote working, for example, is perfectly acceptable provided the company does not operate in Spain.
You may freely travel throughout the Schengen Zone with a temporary residence in one Schengen Country. Though all the Ts&Cs apply.
I assume, though I do not know, that there is a requirement to be in Spain. For example if I leave Chile for more than 12 months I lose my Residency, though I can renew it once in a Spanish Embassy. I would imagine Spain's arrangements to be similar.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 6 Jul 21 at 21:22
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All perfectly simple and practical for solvent people who wish to spend every winter in Spain. It just doesn't make very good headlines in The Daily Mail.
If you decide to do it, then do so around 2 months before you wish to travel. It will avoid stress.
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I just checked, you must be in the country 183 days per year to maintain the residence permit.
So you'd need to plan your travels carefully.
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There seems to be an understanding that if you register your boat in Spain, and keep it in a Spanish marina paying appropriate fees and taxes it counts as your residence.
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You wondering if your mobile chicane will float?
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The mobil gin bowser? no, its friends who seem to be seeking ways to spend 2/3rds the year sailing round the med
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>>its friends who seem to be seeking ways to spend 2/3rds the year sailing round the med
Well, tell them to be careful they don't end up "importing" the boat into the EU, because then they'll be paying import duty and VAT on it.
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Which reminds me, there used to be some law about Spanish residents owning foreign registered cars. That's probably be worth checking out to be safe.
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Not Spanish, but the Brits we know in Portugal took over their lease car when they moved there. The idea was that they would bring it back at lease end (maybe 14 months away) then buy one over there. Something got in the way - I recall it was to do with having to get the car matriculated and that being impossible/prohibitive expensive. And that was before BREXIT.
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>> >>its friends who seem to be seeking ways to spend 2/3rds the year sailing round
>> the med
>>
>> Well, tell them to be careful they don't end up "importing" the boat into the
>> EU, because then they'll be paying import duty and VAT on it.
I think you need to register the boat as a business as well to get round that. ie charter it out once a year
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European road atlas - Terry
