120,000 miles worth of leccy to make 40,000 miles worth of Hydrogen.
Liz Truss a shareholder?
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Whether the 33% efficiency of conversion is right I don't know.
But I do know basic physics means you can't get more energy out that you put in.
Every stage in the process creates losses - converting electricity to gas then back to electricity needs plant and infrastructure, chemical processes (electrolysis) compressing and storing gases, using the gas, possibly in a fuel cell.
The only real application would be in storing energy for later use - either to meet peaks in electricity demand, or for specialist transport needs.
Otherwise, an expensive dead end.
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There are a lot of solar 'farms' and wind 'farms' around us and they have just built a hydrogen plant amongst them. The excuse was that there is excess energy being created at these 'farms' that is not being purchased by the grid and so it's going to waste. The owners believe they will make money from what I assume is hydrolysis.
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>>The owners believe they will make money from what I assume is hydrolysis are fat subsidies.
More good news for this massive waste of money and effort (at least as far as family vehicle transport goes):
www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/exclusive-shell-has-quietly-closed-down-all-its-hydrogen-filling-stations-in-the-uk/2-1-1335049
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 24 Oct 22 at 08:50
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despite what our prejudiced Dr keeps peddling, Hydrogen powered vehicles will be here. Electricity is absolute garbage at sustained heavy loads over long distances in vehicles, and HGV vehicles will be hydrogen powered.
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I tend to agree. For trucks, farm machinery etc, Green hydrogen has its place. For cars and light commercial vehicles like delivery vans electricity is the way forward.
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Energy losses:
- electrolysis converting electricity to hydrogen ~30%
- compressing the gas for storage ~10%
- converting the hydrogen back to electricity in a fuel cell ~30%
End result - put up a wind turbine (or PV) generate (say) 100kw of electricity, go the hydrogen route and get ~50kw of usable energy out.
There is an alternative - use the hydrogen as a fuel in an ICE - lose ~70% of energy input to heat and friction.
H will only ever be useful high density energy is needed (eg: agriculture, building sites), or as a storage medium for excess green energy.
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>>H will only ever be useful high density energy is needed (eg: agriculture, building sites), or as a storage medium for excess green energy.
Pretty much.
For family vehicles- total dead end.
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Today I happened to read this tweet from Greg Jackson, founder of Octopus, in response to a Guardian article headed "Hydrogen could ‘nearly double’ cost of heating a home compared with gas"
- "Hydrogen for heating is like sparkling mineral water for flushing toilets. Possible, but ludicrously expensive. Actually, it may not even be possible. 120 lobbyists won’t fix the physics. Or the economics."
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I've seen something something of an trial of putting 5-10% of hydrogen into the gas grid. I don't know how much a m^3 costs vs gas though.
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electrek.co/2022/05/06/the-worlds-largest-hydrogen-battery-hybrid-mine-haul-truck-starts-work/
www.miningweekly.com/article/world-first-hydrogen-haul-truck-operational-from-august-anglo-platinum-2022-07-27
Williams Engineering were part of the development team. I've also seen pics of a second truck that has a pantograph above the cab which picks up overhead cable on the haul out of the open-pit to extend the runtime.
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A neat idea which really just relies upon the potential energy embedded in stone at the top of a hill being released as it is carried to a lower level. A few thoughts:
- what will they do with it when the stones have all come down the hill
- is it green energy model - systematically flatten hills to turn potential to actual energy
- could pumped water storage be replaced by rails carrying rocks to the top of the hill
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Hydrogen Fuel - Lygonos
