I have a little interest in this, as I have a friend who is a music teacher who works at this school.
Met police say facts are 1/ driver had a fit or seizure 2/Medically diagnosed as such. 3/Driver had never had an event or symptoms previously, as confirmed by medical records and probably confirmed by medical examination.
Result. CPS says no grounds for prosecution, as driver can not be held responsible.
In short - its an unfortunate accident.
Grieved parents result? Anger, complaints, demands for further reports.
Whats your views? mine is that this is, understandable, but unjustifiable vengeance & retribution and a failure to accept that there can be such a thing as an unfortunate accident.
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My view is same as yours Z.
Unless the driver has lied and there's something missing from her medical records then it's a tragic accident. Not even the sort with a cause one can easily mitigate for.
Do we know what the parents say the failings by the police were?
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>> Do we know what the parents say the failings by the police were?
Snipped quotes
"They say they are “angry, sad and confused” by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) decision not to prosecute."
"After the CPS decision the girls' families said in a statement that "justice* has neither been done, nor has been seen to be done today". They said they remained "unconvinced" that the investigation had been conducted thoroughly."
"The Met said its officers had worked tirelessly through every detail of the incident to ensure a complete investigation but Ms Maher questioned that.
“It didn’t look that way to us,“ she said."
*Seems that they are seeking vengeance not justice. My quote.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 4 Jul 24 at 13:50
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I wonder whether the CPS have been as straightforward as they could in explaining what the possibilities were vis a vis the driver.
Some similarity with the Nottingham murders where the families of the three victims seemed unaware of the likelihood that the man who killed would get a hospital order if he pleaded guilty to Manslaughter. If the state had pushed for a murder trial there's every chance the jury would have refused to convict.
In that case though there were multiple failings meaning the schizophrenic should never have been out in the first place.
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>> I wonder whether the CPS have been as straightforward as they could in explaining what
>> the possibilities were vis a vis the driver.
If you mean did anyone warn the parents that a non conviction was a possibility at the outset, i suspect no. Then again the police probably went into this with the mindset that blame and conviction was inevitable.
I remember discussing it with my friend at the time it happened, along the lines that it looks like drink/drugs/medical event was the likely cause, and if the medical event had undisclosed previous a conviction was likely. Ole bill assumed same I guess, ditto victims parents.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 4 Jul 24 at 14:54
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>> I remember discussing it with my friend at the time it happened, along the lines
>> that it looks like drink/drugs
I watched the interview with the head and previous head. It's not what they said, but what they didn't say!
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>>and if the medical event had undisclosed previous a conviction was likely.
When Harry Clark collapsed at the wheel of a bin lorry killing 6, he had previously had a similar event some years before but did not disclose it.
The PF (CPS up here) decided conviction was very unlikely as if Clark had disclosed his previous event, by the time of the fatal crash he would have been deemed fit to drive by DVLA anyway.
The families prosecuted privately and it was thrown out for the same reason the PF felt made conviction unlikely.
Absolute POS though.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-39006862
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NOT a motoring example
1968
Sitting my final exams at university the chap in the seat on my right stood up, looked up at the ceiling, and then collapsed on the floor, desk & chair crashing and for some 20+ minutes was fitting before the first aid/doctor turned up.
I do not know anything about person as alternate columns in the exam room were people doing different exams. "Old fashioned" exam security.
After the exams we were told the news was the chap had recovered. The surprise was that the parents had indicated that their son was not epileptic and was a healthy young man.
As the above example shows an epileptic fit can happen to somebody at any time.
PS
I wrote my seat number at the top of the answer sheet as I had lost 20+ minutes in a 3 hour exam - a good pass in that exam despite the issue.
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I agree that, so far as what has been made public is concerned, this would seem a dreadfully unfortunate accident.
The only mitigating circumstance might be the nature of the vehicle routinely used for such school runs these days? When I was a kid I would get a lift to school in a Mini or Renault 4. If such a vehicle had hit this school boundary wall, the wall would have stopped the car in its tracks. The Defender (in this case) is of such size and weight that it smashed through the wall with the very sad consequences that we are all aware of.
I am not suggesting large 4x4s be banned, but one has to wonder whether the drivers of such vehicles realise how much more dangerous they can be to other users than 'normal' cars? And as everyday cars get ever heavier this trend is worsening not diminishing.
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I agree about (Issigonis) Mini or Renault 4 but cars of that era were much lighter than todays and wouldn't get type approved if they came along now.
Friend of ours had a Renault Zoe. Their daughter a Fiat 500. Friend went to move the Zoe forward a foot or so as it was blocking the garage door. We assume she pressed the accelerator in mistake for the brake and both cars went through her gate, over the road and through a wall into the neighbor's garden.
No injuries other than to pride.
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>> I am not suggesting large 4x4s be banned, but one has to wonder whether the
>> drivers of such vehicles realise how much more dangerous they can be to other users
>> than 'normal' cars? And as everyday cars get ever heavier this trend is worsening not
>> diminishing.
Not exclusive to the defender. Its not that much heavier then my G31 BMW,, a normal estate car, and certainly lighter than a lot of electric cars these day.,
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*Seems that they are seeking vengeance not justice. My quote.
Unfortunately s*** does happen. Its by no means a perfect word. Its the unrelenting search for someone to blame even when no one is to blame its just a set of unfortunate circumstances that come together.
I dealt with an incident where the Father was unable to come to terms with the facts and that there was a collusion between a driver and the investigating authorities. The accusations got quite ridiculous and I could no longer deal directly with him. I believe I can understand the anguish and grief a bereaved person, particularly a parent may go through. The Mother was far more resigned to the facts.
It did get somewhat heated at Coroners Court.
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>> Unfortunately s*** does happen. Its by no means a perfect word. Its the unrelenting search
>> for someone to blame even when no one is to blame its just a set
>> of unfortunate circumstances that come together.
When I was working for the Quango we had a regular drip feed of people aggrieved by various administrative decisions with which they disagreed.
Of those a fair number went down the rabbit hole of asserting a conspiracy whether between lawyers regarding Land Registration or any number of people involved with benefit decisions.
It was hell's delight trying to drag them back on track starting with what was it they actually wanted, say a health related benefit, and the facts around their condition and how it affected them.
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In view of recent developments this thread needs a bump:
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/may/01/woman-charged-death-two-eight-year-old-girls-wimbledon-car-crash
Driver arrested and charged with causing death by dangerous driving and other offences related to the same incident.
Will be interesting to better understand the volte face by Police/CPS.
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Probably related to the fact 11 police officers are facing investigation. The met have to change how they do these investigations.
Perhaps the parents were right all along.
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I think it might revolve around the fact that the "accident" was put down to "an undiagnosed epileptic seizure", and that re-opening the case and doing not a lot of digging has possibly revealed someone was being "économe avec la vérité".
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This might be of interest......
vocal.media/journal/claire-freemantle-overcoming-epilepsy-s-challenges-in-wimbledon-6c9c0qcj
The licencing authority and its medical advisors can only trust the patient to truthfully report the seizure-free length of time necessary to qualify for a return of the driving licence. I presume one of the first things examined was the GP medical record.
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>> Perhaps the parents were right all along.
Or perhaps they were not, and are simply seeking revenge and retribution,
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>>
>> >> Perhaps the parents were right all along.
>>
>> Or perhaps they were not, and are simply seeking revenge and retribution,
>>
I suppose the CPS now think they have enough to make this a goer. I suppose we'll see at trial.
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>> I suppose the CPS now think they have enough to make this a goer. I
>> suppose we'll see at trial.
Indeed, if she is found not guilty I can 100% assure you they will kick off again.
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>>
>> >> I suppose the CPS now think they have enough to make this a goer.
>> I
>> >> suppose we'll see at trial.
>>
>> Indeed, if she is found not guilty I can 100% assure you they will kick
>> off again.
>>
Perhaps, but I wonder what will happen to these 11 policeman. Rather odd for so many to be suspended/investigated. 4 in particular look like they might be for the high jump.
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Perhaps someone with a brain has analysed the inputs to the car's controls and thought "that doesn't look like a seizure"
We'll find out at trial.
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Double post
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 1 May 26 at 18:03
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Triple post!
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 1 May 26 at 18:04
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>> Or perhaps they were not, and are simply seeking revenge and retribution,
I think the words revenge and retribution are not wholly appropriate when children are dead.
How would any of us react in the shoes of those two girls' parents?
More so if they'd heard stuff that lead them to doubt the driver's account.
As Lygonos says it'll come out at trial.
But now charges are laid the opportunity for comment/publicity pending the case are severely limited.
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>> >> Or perhaps they were not, and are simply seeking revenge and retribution,
>>
>> I think the words revenge and retribution are not wholly appropriate when children are dead.
Not at all, its one of the traits of loss. Unacceptance of the facts.
It will all come out, there is much internet theories of rich husband buying a medical diagnosis to support wifes diagnosis, which the parents have probably bought into.
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Generally fatal collisions are dealt with extremely thoroughly as of course they are establishing facts and acting on behalf of the Coroner as well as determining whether offences have been committed with a view to prosecution.
There is nothing too gain by fudging an investigation. Or is there? Facts are well scrutinised by the Coroner and tested at trial.
I find it hard to understand that 11 Officers are being investigated. If they have failed to test the evidence thoroughly to the point of neglect then they should face the consequences. Any potential medical episode should be fully explored. We don't know how difficult that may have been for the investigation or what obstacles were put in the way.
Very tragic indeed and understandably the parents would wish to see justice. For me that there was something that suggested one set of parents was used to getting their way in life.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 1 May 26 at 22:28
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>> I find it hard to understand that 11 Officers are being investigated. If they have
>> failed to test the evidence thoroughly to the point of neglect then they should face
>> the consequences. Any potential medical episode should be fully explored. We don't know how difficult
This is the met, right?
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Wimbledon School car crash - Bromptonaut
