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A couple of days ago while cycling along a dry country road with a typical top-dressed not very smooth surface, a Jaecoo SUV which had slowed to my pace behind me took an opportunity to safely overtake.....with much scrabbling of its driven wheels as it partially lost traction. It seems a careless right foot in a torquey EV will cause unduly rapid tyre wear. I wonder if anyone here has experience of the longevity (or shortevity?) of EV tyres? If a set of tyres costing around £400 can last 40,000 miles in a carefully driven light car, that's 1p per mile. If EV tyres only last 20,000 miles, that's an extra penny a mile to factor into the running costs.
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On the Korando I got just about 20.000 miles on the fronts, inner or is it inside tyre wear? Could have got more out of them but off on holiday for a good few miles at the time so swapped.
Enthusiastic driving in the wet can definitely cause a bit of scrabbling about and torque steer.
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Can’t say I’ve ever had a set of tyres last 40000 miles. I replaced the tyres on my EV , a VW ID 3 after 3 years, 21,000 miles. By all accounts the new Michelins should last a bit longer than the Bridgestones
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Yes I believe EV do use tyres up at a faster rate than petrol/diesel. I think my last set lasted 45000 miles and there was still enough on the treads when I sold the car.
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Never had any last 40k miles, 32-35 was my average in the past, beemer with some towing thrown in does 30k, changed in axle pairs.
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<< Can't say I've ever had a set of tyres last 40000 miles. >>
Back in the day when cars were smaller and many weighed under a ton. tyres could do over 50K on a set. One of our 205s managed that even with a diesel lump at the front. But with an EV weighing double that, and with rapid acceleration it's easy to see why that is no longer to be expected.
Presumably tyre makers will have adjusted composition to balance these needs, while trying to factor in driver comfort. I guess it may be a bit like driving a steam loco - too quick with the regulator and you will probably spin the wheels ....
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The Superb's fronts were close to the wear indicators at around 23,000. Assume they were the ones fitted at the factory but car had 18,000 on when we bought it.
Rears have tons of tread left. We tow a 1300kg caravan from time to time but otherwise run pretty light.
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Just changed the Vitara original rears after 48k miles. Plenty of tread left, but manuf 2019 and showing lots of very minor cracking on the sidewall.
I changed the fronts at 30k miles....still fully legal but better safe than sorry.
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The tyre wear due to over enthusiastic acceleration would be at least partially offset by the more gentle braking using the one-peddle regen.
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IME there’s little to no difference, and if anything the tyres on my current car (a BMW i5, RWD only) last longer than they did on the equivalent powered (diesel) 5 series’ I’ve owned in the past. For my sort of use that’s around 15k for the rears and 30k for the fronts.. The driver not the mode of power is going to have far more influence on the wear rate of tyres I reckon!
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I'd think the type of driving you do is as big an influence. If you're stop/start around town vs long distance on CC on the mway in the small hours then you'll have very different wear rates.
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Of course EVs are much heavier…
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I retired nearly 20 years ago and my mileage fell by 20K
However I ran my own "work car" and collected a monthly allowance and business mileage - total 25K+ /year- 20K+ work and 5K domestic. We had another car for weekend / Mon-Friday mother-in-law's taxi.
The work car would get 20K+ out the fronts and put the new tyres on the back. Each tyre therefore did 40K+ before being replaced - wear on the backs was very modest before going on the front.
Not in a hurry/ being retired I would get 30K+ (4 years) on my last CRV before changing all 4. New CRV tyres might see me out as my mileage has fallen as I get older.
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>> Of course EVs are much heavier…
>>
They are, though what difference it makes I’m not sure. The i5 is around 25% heavier than a 535d from a couple of generations earlier, but the tyres actually last a little better I think. At 15k on the old car the tyres would need changing. In the new one they were down to 3.5mm at that mileage but either winter or a long journey ahead meant they were changed.
Having said that, the good old e39 5 series from the last century (!!) weighed at least a couple of hundred kilos less even than the 535d, and its rear tyres would always go on the inner edges first at anywhere between 12k and 18k miles…. So upon reflection I think improved traction control and suspension geometry, along with driving style, has far more impact than weight and absolute power/torque on tyre wear rate.
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>> If a set of tyres costing around £400 can last 40,000
>> miles in a carefully driven light car, that's 1p per mile. If EV tyres only
>> last 20,000 miles, that's an extra penny a mile to factor into the running costs.
>>
Good luck getting a set of tyres for an EV tyres for £400!
Most of them seem to be on bonkers sizes. Several things put me off a used Volvo XC40 EV, one of them was Googling the cost of the rear tyres to find they were £300 each.
Anecdotal / chance etc, but another thing is I've seen it commented that people with EVs say they've had multiple punctures where they haven't had one on an ICE car for many years.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Sun 1 Mar 26 at 14:50
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“Good luck getting a set of tyres for an EV tyres for £400!“
Bridgestone Turanzas for ID 3 £96 each fitted at Halfords
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I think the susceptibility to punctures is a tyre/wheel size thing, not an EV thing. The worst car I had for punctures was a Mercedes E350 convertible, which had 8 tyres replaced because of punctures in 3 years / 60k miles. It had optional 20” wheels, which looked nice but were a nightmare from a puncture susceptibility perspective. The Tesla Model 3 that followed it (18” wheels) had no punctures in 2 years, and the BMWi5 (19” wheels) has just had one. But, I think that was a result of driving past a building site, as there was a screw clearly visible. Surprisingly Kwik Fit were able to repair it, though I had booked the car in for a replacement :)
Cost wise, the 19” tyres for the BMW are around £200 - but that’s comparable (inflation adjusted) to almost every similar car I’ve had. The 18” tyres on my A4 convertible were £130/£140 knocking on 20 years ago!
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Merc B250e, 180bhp Fwd, Michelin Primacy 3 - 25,000 miles on front
MG ZS MK1 145bhp Fwd, Michelin Primacy 3 - 35,000 miles on front
MG ZS MK2 156bhp Fwd, Michelin Primacy 3 - expected 30-35,000 from fronts (sold at 25k)
All rear tyres were wearing at about half the rate of the fronts.
Late MG ZS EVs (2024) have Maxxis tyres which apparently get about 15,000 miles on the front, which is good because they are supposedly pretty crappy.
Michelin and Goodyear EGrip2 seem to wear particularly well.
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As an MG main agent, we don't really see much difference in tyre wear between the petrol and electric cars that come to us for service. There are many variables, of course, but EVs don't stand out for excessive tyre wear in our experience.
Except for the 429hp MG4 XPower we saw the other week on 12k miles fitted with four very worn ditchfinders, which means the driver must already have used up the factory Bridgestones. To be fair, in my previous job it was common to see 400hp+ cars with bald tyres on the driven axles inside 5000 miles, so I suspect it's not an EV thing.
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<< The worst car I had for punctures was a Mercedes E350 convertible, which had 8 tyres replaced because of punctures in 3 years / 60k miles >>
What is your explanation for this abnormal result ? Can't be just the tyre size, surely ?
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>> << The worst car I had for punctures was a Mercedes E350 convertible, which had
>> 8 tyres replaced because of punctures in 3 years / 60k miles >>
>>
>> What is your explanation for this abnormal result ? Can't be just the tyre size,
>> surely ?
>>
Difficult to say really; the car was used in the same way as previous and subsequent cars, and on the same type of roads. It had 245/35/20 tyres which, while fairly low profile, on a 20” rim still had 85mm of sidewall, so very similar to that on many 18” wheels. It had continental tyres - special sound reducing ones for some reason. However previous Mercs on continentals didn’t suffer in the same way - albeit on 18” wheels. I can only surmise that the profile, sidewall rigidity, contact area width or the combination of all 3 made it far more susceptible to punctures. The BMW is on Pirellis, but only because that’s what it came on and they are good, so have been replaced with like for like. The Tesla came on Hankooks, but then it was a much cheaper car so a cheaper tyre is to be expected I suppose. I replaced them with Michelins which improved the slightly twitchy handling, but didn’t settle the fidgety ride.
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There is data out there showing that EV tyre wear is greater than ICE tyre wear, and it’s going to be a combination of some extra vehicle weight (but if we’d lose our fascination with going 300 miles without stopping, we could have lighter EV’s with smaller batteries), and drivers taking advantage of gobs of instant torque.
It’d be interesting to see how many EV’s that come off the production line with EV-specific tyres have them replaced by something not suited to the characteristics of a zero emissions vehicle. I’d suspect that that’s where a lot of the tyre wear takes place - EV’s on tyres not designed for them.
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Cost of tyre wear - assume £400 a set. 10,000 miles per annum.
40k a set = £100 pa = 1.00 per mile
30k a set = £134 pa = 1.34p per mile
Cost of petrol/ diesel at 50mpg is ~12p per mile.
Tyre wear is trivial.
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I get your point Terry but I think most people will spend more that £400 on a set of tyres. Daughter in Brum had a flat in an EV tyre at the weekend and the recommended tyre can't recall the make) was £160, though that was for home fitting.
If this EV tyre wear is a thing it is likely to be even occasional use of the torque. So easy to do, and such fun!! :-)
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Done over 100k EV miles since 2017 - no real difference between them and ICE in my experience.
Brake wear is virtually non-existent*
*Edit - the rear discs on my 69-plate MG ZS were scored horribly by 37k miles.
Didn't see anything like it on my 22-plate MK2.
I expect Dave_ will have seen this on the Mk1s
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 2 Mar 26 at 20:09
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>> expect Dave_ will have seen this on the Mk1s
Indeed yes, we send out rear discs for Mk1 ZS EVs almost on a daily basis. Interestingly, we send quite a few to Norway - considering the 55 quid shipping cost they must be either eye-wateringly expensive or out of stock up there!
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Interestingly (or not…) Kwik Fit, who one assumes have a vested interest in selling more, more expensive tyres, think that tyres on non EVs wear up to 30% quicker than EV rated tyres on EVs. Possibly a push to make sure that tyres are replaced like for like!
But they, as I and other have posted, caveat that statement by adding that the actual rate of tyre wear has a lot more to do with the driver than the tyre itself. Which seems to be a statement of the obvious… I recall that the front tyres on an early A4 TDi company car (no traction control) could reach the wear limit after as little as 8,000 miles if one was keen for new tyres before a long European road trip…. But that they’d normally manage between 12k and 14k miles ;)
www.kwik-fit.com/blog/electric-car-tyre-wear
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The materials matter hugely as noted on ZSEVs - over 30k on Michelins, more like 15k on Maxxis
Driving like a wanchor doesn't help but since most ICE are turbocharged, they are just as grunty as EVs if not treated with respect.
I find driving an EV quickly is smoother than an ICE - linear acceleration rather than changing gears constantly.
EV specific tyres are made for low rolling resistance more than grip or wear - many start with <6mm of tread, although Michelin at least have designed treads that open up as they wear to maintain wet grip.
The ones on my Ioniq6 are EV specific Pirellis - 245/40x20 with sound deadening foam inside.
As far as handling and comfort goes they are very good (never been a Pirelli fanboy) - only done 5k so can't comment on wear yet.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 3 Mar 26 at 01:33
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Buying petrol is say £20-£30 per week - the sort of money you may have in your wallet (most people would probably use a card)
4 tyres for my CRV are roughly £150+ x 4 = £600+ - only very occasionally would I have that sort of money in my wallet.
A "considered purchase" would be a better description.
Hence most of us would being looking about and bemoaning how expensive tyres are! Even if it is 1p- 2p per mile
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Few of us really add up the real cost per. mile of our car, which at the end of the day includes road tax (varies a lot by car). insurance (ditto) maintenance (inc tyres) Depreciation/finance/lease costs and then of course fuel - the one we really notice because as said it comes out of your (digital) wallet.
Sem to recall about 15 years ago HMR&C reckoned 43p per mile. Not going to work mine out - it would horrify me.
Edit - So I did. depreciating the cost of the car over 10 years, inc maint, road tax, insurance, fuel.
75 pence per mile. The bit I notice at the pump twice monthly apperas to be only 20 pence per mile
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 3 Mar 26 at 08:56
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Did you include lost investment income on capital tied up in car?
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>> Did you include lost investment income on capital tied up in car?
No. At 3.5% pa compound, add another 12p per mile.
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>> Sem to recall about 15 years ago HMR&C reckoned 43p per mile.
Still 43p/mile. Got a handful of quid from CA when I went to the office to pick up a laptop.
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>> Still 43p/mile. Got a handful of quid from CA when I went to the office
>> to pick up a laptop.
>
You are being robbed. 'er indoors gets 45p/mile in her National Trust role.
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>> You are being robbed. 'er indoors gets 45p/mile in her National Trust role.
Maybe 45, it was hardly worth the fight with the expenses IT for 10 miles.
When I was in one of the predecessor CAs for the area I did get them to offer bike milege.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 3 Mar 26 at 09:27
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This is quite a fun, or eye-opening calculation…. Based on real / estimated costs (because checking the actual facts and fuel costs would take too long!) the cost / mile of my last few cars works out roughly as follows:
Leased cars:
Mercedes E350 convertible. 46p per mile lease cost, 19p fuel cost, 1.3p servicing, 4p tyres and 3p insurance. So 73p a mile
Tesla M3 LR. 38p per mile lease, 5p electricity, 0.7p service / repairs, 3p tyres and 3p insurance. So just under 50p a mile
BMW i5 (service and tyre inclusive lease) 47p a mile lease, 5p electricity, 3p insurance. So 55p
BMW M235i convertible. Lease cost 42p a mile. Fuel cost 23p, servicing 1p, tyres 3p, insurance 3p. So 72p a mile.
Purchased cars
Mercedes E250 CDI. Depreciation 40p, fuel, 16p, servicing 2p, tyres 1.6p, insurance 3p. So 62p ish
MINI Clubman Cooper S. Depreciation 27p, fuel 16p, tyres 0.8p, servicing 0.8p, insurance 3p. So 48p-ish
Audi A8 4.2 Quattro. Depreciation 17p a mile, servicing / repairs 20p, fuel 35p, insurance 10p (a factor of low mileage not high insurance!) 82p a mile.
Mercedes SLK350. Deprecation 8p a mile, servicing 2p, tyres 1p, fuel 22p, insurance 3p. So just 36p @ mile.
Caveat, while the leased cars, the MINI and the diesel Mercedes all covered around 15k miles a year, the others were second hand, low mileage experiments. The conclusion of that experiment is that buy a reliable one and run it until it breaks is the cheapest approach- as happened to the SLK. Which is why I bought, and still have, another.
What you definitely don’t do is buy a 25 year old Audi A4 1.8 T Sport because you’d wanted one as a company car back in the day, have it serviced, fix the pixelating dash, put new tyres on it, refurbish the wheels and have ChipsAway sort out the worst of the scuffs and then do 750 miles in it over a year. Because that way you are in for the thick end of £3,500 for something which still had a resale value of, at best £1,500. So that’s £3.30 a mile in deprecations, servicing, repairs etc. Add 20p for fuel and insurance and it’s not a great outcome ;)
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This has more or less reinforced my already firm idea. At the age of nearly 72, with number of driving years ahead an unknown, paying for a new car, to run and depreciate over a big chunk of years is clearly foolhardy. Leasing for 3 year chunkettes is the way to go, especially given the current lease prices of certain models.
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Fees for early termination of the lease is the thing to look out for.
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>> Fees for early termination of the lease is the thing to look out for.
>>
Early termination of the driver might be more troublesome :o
Alphabet, who fund my BMW and also an earlier Merc, charge 3 months lease payment for cancellation 12 to 18 months early, and 2 months for cancellation 11 months or less early, which I didn’t think was terrible.
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>> This has more or less reinforced my already firm idea. At the age of nearly
>> 72, with number of driving years ahead an unknown, paying for a new car, to
>> run and depreciate over a big chunk of years is clearly foolhardy. Leasing for 3
>> year chunkettes is the way to go, especially given the current lease prices of certain
>> models.
>>
If you’re happy to be flexible around either timing or a new car or the type of new car then you can get some leasing deals that are hard to beat when compared to the equivalent purchase. A case of shopping the deal, not a specific model of car though I think. Having said that, 72 isn’t *that* old, and 2 or 3 year leases gives you the opportunity to experience quite a few more new cars at least - a lot to be said for that!!
My dad bought a new car when he was 68 which, admittedly, at 9 years old later this year he’s kept for a few years longer than he used to keep cars. Partly because of COVID, which was when it reached the age he’d have usually replaced it, and partly because they still have 2 cars and his has still only done less than 70k miles in all that time. He has just ordered another new car and, against my advice, is buying not leasing even though it’s an EV. He’s also buying it brand new not as a pre-reg/slightly used/ex-demo/management car, because that’s what’s he’s always done, and that gets him exactly what he wants. Except it doesn’t anymore, because most manufacturers bundle options in to packs, which include the one or two things you do want with 3 or 4 that you don’t… But, it’s his money so my observations are just that. Observations, and of no real relevance! The next decision point will be when my Mum decides her car needs replacing too…
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>> This has more or less reinforced my already firm idea. At the age of nearly
>> 72, with number of driving years ahead an unknown, paying for a new car, to
>> run and depreciate over a big chunk of years is clearly foolhardy. Leasing for 3
>> year chunkettes is the way to go, especially given the current lease prices of certain
>> models.
>>
That's fine, so long as the leasing companies don't bar lessees over a certain age (do they now? might they in the future?)
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Why would they providing, like everyone else you have the means to pay?
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>> Why would they providing, like everyone else you have the means to pay?
Because they perceive some additional risk?
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And what risk would that be? A quick google of half a dozen lease companies confirms that they have no upper age limits.
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I suspect the big risk, unless the lease agreement states otherwise, is to the lessee - or more accurately their inheritance.
If you snuff it 6 months in to a 3 year lease, do the rest of the lease payments come out of your estate, or is there an early termination clause/payment.
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>> I suspect the big risk, unless the lease agreement states otherwise, is to the lessee
>> - or more accurately their inheritance.
>>
>> If you snuff it 6 months in to a 3 year lease, do the rest
>> of the lease payments come out of your estate, or is there an early termination
>> clause/payment.
>>
My agreement with Alphabet says they’d charge me 6 months early termination if there were more than 30 months remaining on the agreement, 5 months for between 24 and 29 months, 4 for between 18 and 23 months, 3 for between 11 and 18 and 2 if between 2 and 11 months remaining. Which doesn’t seem overly onerous, and in the worst case of 6 months is probably a lot less than the spread between retail and a WBAC sale price for a nearly new car…
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>> And what risk would that be? A quick google of half a dozen lease companies
>> confirms that they have no upper age limits.
If they don't that's where we are.
The question was raised more or less as a hypothetical.
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<< What you definitely don't do is buy a 25 year old .... and then do 750 miles in it over a year. Because that way you are in for the thick end of £3,500 for something which still had a resale value of, at best £1,500. So that's £3.30 a mile in deprecations, servicing, repairs >>
Well, those calculations are pretty pointless, because you can bend the result either way by doing less or more driving !!
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>> This is quite a fun, or eye-opening calculation….
>>
>> Purchased cars
>> Mercedes E250 CDI. Depreciation 40p, fuel, 16p, servicing 2p, tyres 1.6p, insurance 3p. So 62p
>> ish
>> MINI Clubman Cooper S. Depreciation 27p, fuel 16p, tyres 0.8p, servicing 0.8p, insurance 3p. So
>> 48p-ish
>> Audi A8 4.2 Quattro. Depreciation 17p a mile, servicing / repairs 20p, fuel 35p, insurance
>> 10p (a factor of low mileage not high insurance!) 82p a mile.
>> Mercedes SLK350. Deprecation 8p a mile, servicing 2p, tyres 1p, fuel 22p, insurance 3p. So
>> just 36p @ mile.
>>
>> What you definitely don’t do is buy a 25 year old Audi >>.......
......but what I did do was buy a nearly new TR7 in 1981 and then big old Audis at least 4yrs old with tens of thousands of miles on the clock, 'cos they were cheap, reliable and I've only averaged 5k miles a year for the past 45yrs, as Mrs F's family car did the heavy lifting. Also, I kept them as long as reasonably possible. That way keeps the depreciation costs well below the fuel and my (self)servicing costs, although forking out for an MoT was inescapable.
TR7 £4250 69,300 miles; Audi 100 2.0E £4200 68,600; A6 2.8SE £7200 56,300; A8 W12 £12000 30,100. So, grand totals of £27650 divided by 224,300 miles or 45yrs = 12p per mile or £614 p.a. ownership cost so far....both diminishing as I've still got the TR and the A8. But although a 1981 mile is the same as a 2026 mile, a pound certainly isn't! Still, a bit of fun as you say....hope it's of interest.
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>> So that's £3.30 a mile
My late father's Morgan cost me £3.60 a mile all in, over 6,000 miles and two years. Ouch.
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<< 4 tyres for my CRV are roughly £150+ x 4 = £600+ - only very occasionally would I have that sort of money in my wallet. >>
Interesting - some drivers of older cars might grumble and pay out for tyres, but if it was for a repair job, might scrap the car !!
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I buy at 18 month old and keep as long as they continue to be economic. With the current Ford estate that has been 21 years and still going strong. The previous car I kept for 25 years and sold because I wanted auto, air and power steering. The result is extremely cheap motoring but very little variety.
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>> I buy at 18 month old and keep as long as they continue to be economic
My old Dad did that. N reg Passat, 53 reg C270CDI, 12 reg C220CDI saw him out.
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>> My old Dad did that. N reg Passat, 53 reg C270CDI, 12 reg C220CDI saw
>> him out.
>>
Bought at 5 mths old, I've not long got rid of my 54 reg C270CDI.....
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EV tyre wear - Bromptonaut
