Is back with us.
Seoras the Superb was admittedly close to empty but the pump went over £100 just before clicking off. Another £23 for 10 litres of Ad Blue as there was less than 1400 miles range left.
Off to Harris for the week going as far as Stirling tomorrow then on the Uig (Skye) for an evening ferry on Saturday. Daughter, son in law and Grandson will meet us at Uig. We're in our usual place at Caw, they're in an Air B&B by the Scalpay Bridge.
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I briefly worked at a small garage in my youth, and I can remember the most popular pump request was "A pounds worth, mate".
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Used to put between £3 and £5 in my Mini every week - 1982.
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"Used to put between £3 and £5 in my Mini every week"
Of 20w-50?
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>> Used to put between £3 and £5 in my Mini every week - 1982.
>>
Same year, just married and with a mortgage £3 was my maximum comfortable fill. Getting low near the end of the week meant cycling to work - although not something I minded.
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152.9 in Tesco Seaton Devon, greedily guzzled a tank load at that price.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 21 May 26 at 17:08
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>> 152.9 in Tesco Seaton Devon, greedily guzzled a tank load at that price.
Diesel at local Tesco was something like 181.9. But 60/70 mpg is doable with cruise set at 65mph.
Fill up again in Fort William on Saturday which should see us back to Inverness or Perth inbound on 31/05.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 21 May 26 at 17:18
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Need to fill up Saturday to get me down to Devon, a pub somewhere near Throwleigh for my overnight before sailing Sunday. Mostly 320 miles on the M6/5 so a steady 70/75 where possible and 45 mpg with a following wind.
A full tank should get me to Spain where I think gasolina is a bit cheaper…all relative really given how much I’m paying Brittany Ferries for myself, car & cheapest cabin.
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Perhaps you should consider an Enyaq instead of a Superb. From home charging a recharge would be about six quid. Even a public charger wouldn't be that much. Think 3p a mile tops- home charging.
Last edited by: Ethanedwards on Thu 21 May 26 at 17:56
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>> Perhaps you should consider an Enyaq instead of a Superb.
The rationale for the Superb was around towing a 1400-1500kg caravan.
Yet to be convinced electric and towing can be made to match.
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>> Yet to be convinced electric and towing can be made to match.
>>
I was charging my ID5 next to a German registered Tesla Model Y, towing a caravan, at a Tesla Supercharger just outside Dijon last week. I would post the pic I took, if one could on this forum.
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>> I was charging my ID5 next to a German registered Tesla Model Y, towing a
>> caravan, at a Tesla Supercharger just outside Dijon last week. I would post the pic
>> I took, if one could on this forum.
We're getting there.
I guess I don't have the c****** to be a pioneer!!
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AIUI towing a caravan loses ~40-50% of energy- about half the mpg or half the range.
Starting with a normal 300 mile range will mean a charge at ~150 miles - possibly 3 hours driving.
Journeys would need a little more careful planning and chargers would need to be fast to avoid extended stops. Main issue I suspect is chargers with space to charge car with van attached or somewhere to detach the van whilst charging the car.
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Many of the chargers on French autoroutes at least have chargers set up for those towing by arranging them a little like old fashioned petrol pumps, in parallel rows. The Dutch seem to have taken to towing with Teslas and Kias as far as I could make out. It must take more planning in a Tesla, as mine used to always give a theoretical range post charge based on the WLTP consumption, and then revise it down as the journey progressed. Which was fine, except it had to recalculate where to charge quite frequently. The BMW takes a more sensible approach of calculating the range post charge using recent consumption data, and as a result rarely needs to recalculate where it was going to stop.
Brining it back vaguely on topic, I also bought petrol today, for the first time since the sharp increases. £95 to fill the old SLK up, so I didn’t breach the £100 mark. It only did 2,500 miles in the last 12 months, mostly during summer, and last time I filled it up I think it was probably £60something. But, I did manage to stop on £95 dead, after the initial cut-out at £94.17 which is something - I’ll take the small wins :)
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>> We're getting there.
>>
>> I guess I don't have the c****** to be a pioneer!!
Range wise, EV towing is getting there, Tesla was the first to make it practical.
The ability to charge the thing with van in tow is virtually non existent, as is charging the thing on site.
Cajones is banned? Balls
Edit, only for you it seems.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 28 May 26 at 13:36
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.
>>
>> Cajones is banned? Balls
>>
>> Edit, only for you it seems.
>>
It's only banned for those who can spell .
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>> I briefly worked at a small garage in my youth, and I can remember the most popular pump request was "A pounds worth, mate". >>
At 4/11 a gallon, that was just over 4 gallons - nearly half a tank !!
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And trying to stop the pump on an exact £ or even an even figure has become a struggle of epic proportions :))
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>> And trying to stop the pump on an exact £ or even an even figure
>> has become a struggle of epic proportions :))
>>
I've always said there should be a button on the pump to make it stop at the next pound.
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Curious - why does it matter?
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>> Curious - why does it matter?
>>
Because sometimes I like to pay cash, and going over means carrying a pocket full of shrapnel for the day.
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>> >> Curious - why does it matter?
>> >>
>>
>> Because sometimes I like to pay cash, and going over means carrying a pocket full
>> of shrapnel for the day.
I can’t remember when I last used cash to fill the car - several decades ago.
The only cash ever occasionally needed is a £1 coin to unlock a supermarket trolly!!
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>> >> >>
>>
>> I can’t remember when I last used cash to fill the car - several decades
>> ago.
>>
>> The only cash ever occasionally needed is a £1 coin to unlock a supermarket trolly!!
>>
I was self employed for more than half my working life so cash was always to hand.
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“Because sometimes I like to pay cash,”
Best not buy an EV then.
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>> Because sometimes I like to pay cash, and going over means carrying a pocket full
>> of shrapnel for the day.
You could always join a gang of bank robbers, like my missus..........................;>)
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>>
>>
>> You could always join a gang of bank robbers, like my missus..........................;>)
>>
No comment ;-)
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I happen to be in Luxembourg currently. Diesel is £1.55 (equivalent) which means a tank full is less than £100. All public transport is free as well.
Food and drink pricing seems to be defraying that somewhat, though.
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>> I happen to be in Luxembourg currently. Diesel is £1.55 (equivalent) which means a tank
>> full is less than £100. All public transport is free as well.
>> Food and drink pricing seems to be defraying that somewhat, though.
Home of the Eurocrat. Why burden these selfless public servants with tickets for the bus. The EU credit card and expense account probably also insulates them from the cost of food and drink
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Christ, I'm glad I don't have your jaundiced view on life!
Of course, not being a Eurocrat I'm not allowed to benefit from cheap fuel, free travel, clean infrastructure and enjoyable scenery, or maybe I am.
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>> Christ, I'm glad I don't have your jaundiced view on life!
>>
>> Of course, not being a Eurocrat I'm not allowed to benefit from cheap fuel, free
>> travel, clean infrastructure and enjoyable scenery, or maybe I am.
Well done for commenting.
I bit my lip.
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"The Grand Duchy has the largest service station in the world, the Shell Berchem station, located on the A3 freeway linking France to the Luxembourg capital. This station serves up to 25,000 vehicles on busy days, for which it has a tank capable of storing up to 1 million liters of fuel and in summer there can be up to 25 tankers a day that come to feed the station. In total, this station sells around 260 million liters of fuel per year."
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That's got to be some sort of tax wheeze! Maybe there's no fuel duty in Luxembourg either. I don't think they have income tax.
I buy a lot of stuff from a tax dodging company in Luxembourg. Amazon. How do I stop? I've gone off Bezos but I hate shopping and Amazon has it absolutely cracked.
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>>
>> I buy a lot of stuff from a tax dodging company in Luxembourg. Amazon. How
>> do I stop? I've gone off Bezos but I hate shopping and Amazon has it
>> absolutely cracked.
>>
You could always get your own back by blowing up one of his rockets....
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The reverse of tax dodging. It’s called fuel tourism. The low tax rate on fuel attracts customers from far and wide particularly international truck drivers thus bolstering tax revenue from
fuel which would be a lot lower if dependant solely on local drivers
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>> The reverse of tax dodging. It’s called fuel tourism. The low tax rate on fuel attracts customers from far and wide particularly international truck drivers <<
I wonder whether this extra travelling saves those customers money, while actually burning more fuel overall ? Rather like the old days of Green Shield stamps. We can always print more money (tho we don't even do that much now).
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Luxembourg has been cheaper for fuel (particularly diesel I think) for many a year. Can't say I've ever been tempted to significantly divert in my European touring, but a good percentage of the motorhome fraternity are known to. With a maximum tank size of 90 litres you might save £20 or so, not enough to make me divert (but the saving is enough for me to ensure I leave with a full tank as I happen to be here.)
Opinion seems divided on whether the price is regulated or not. Best info I can find is that a maximum price is defined, and nearly all outlets charge that. Defacto regulation, as we haven't spotted a station anywhere that isn't charging exactly €1.767 for diesel.
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>> "The Grand Duchy has the largest service station in the world, the Shell Berchem station,
>> located on the A3 freeway linking France to the Luxembourg capital. This station serves up
>> to 25,000 vehicles on busy days,.......
Goodness, is it still a cheapo pitstop? Reminds me of trip four of us made in my rusty old Jag XJ6 to Milan 50yrs ago. It had a 12 gallon fuel tank in each rear wing and a switch on the dashboard to divert from one to the other. Even at c.20mpg we could make Luxembourg before refuelling. Just back from visiting son in London - journey down early Sunday - 54.1 mpg on Mrs F's Peugeot 2008's trip! (and that's at a set 70mph , not a parsimonious obstructive middle lane 60-65!). Went down to 52.1 including return - I suppose it's uphill.....
Cheapest 2 days ago was Kettering Asda, 150.7 - interestingly didn't appear on 'Petrolprices'.
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>> Reminds me of trip four of us made
>> in my rusty old Jag XJ6 to Milan 50yrs ago. It had a 12 gallon
>> fuel tank in each rear wing and a switch on the dashboard to divert from
>> one to the other.
One of what we'd now call Tribunal Judges c1982/3 had a similarly equipped Daimler Coupe in which I occasionally travelled as a clerk.
He swap tanks every 150 or so miles to keep content of tanks in balance.
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Well, it appears that Luxembourg wasn't quite as much a bargain as described (at least for diesel)
We had our first stop in Germany last night. The nearby filling station was the same as the Luxembourg price when we walked into town (€1.767). Later, when we went out walking it was €2.085, and then when we returned €1.80.
We're used to the German "fuel price roulette" where they'll alter the price multiple times in a day (sometimes while you're filling!) but I'd read that in the current circumstances a maximum of one change a day had been legislated (but was being widely ignored).
Anyway, under €1.80 appears to be the benchmark (cheaper then France).
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>> Seoras the Superb was admittedly close to empty but the pump went over £100 just
>> before clicking off.
I miss the out and out capacity/economy of my old Superb mkI pd diesel - 65+ litres and a useable range of 750 miles.
I'm lucky to squeeze 33 litres into the Swace when empty - even though the official tank capacity is 43 litres! Range is nowhere near as good at circa 480 (+/- 40 depending on outside temperature!) but not too bad considering that costs about £50 at todays prices. Still not Dordogne in one pass without filling up though.
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>> I miss the out and out capacity/economy of my old Superb mkI pd diesel -
>> 65+ litres and a useable range of 750 miles.
Yup.
Filled it in Stornoway and after around 550 miles home yesterday it's showing a range of 300 miles.
Cruise is brill at getting best mpg.
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Current 'van has the "motorhome weight saving" 60l tank (good for about 400 miles).
The one before last was at the opposite end of the spectrum with the long range 120l option. A fill-up was wallet -busting, but it would have been nice to have had that in Luxembourg last week. ;-)
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Superb's tank is 66 litres giving a motorway range of at least 700 miles.
Filled it in Stornoway on Saturday and after approx 550 miles home the gauge shows approx half a tank.
Computer readout on arrival home was 60.1 mpg.
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I bet it doesn't do that with the wobble box on the back, though ;-)
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Completely agree on modern cruise - it’s remarkably good at getting decent economy. Currently in Nice, having driven down in an old SLK. It has a 70 litre tank and a realistic useable range at French speeds in French roads of around 500 miles. It’s a journey I’ve made many times in all sorts of cars - from a diesel e class Mercedes that would do 800 miles on a tank to an electric 5 series that has a realistic useable range of 280 miles under the same driving conditions. The journeys all take roughly the same amount of time once you’ve stopped for a coffee, some lunch and/or a toilet break. The 800 mile range of the Mercedes had no practical benefit at all really!! Other than at petrol stations you are at the mercy of whoever dripped what fuel on the ground in the process. Very difficult to spill electricity :)
I did however crack the €125 mark filling the car up at a supermarket in Le Mans!! €1.929 a litre. €2.149 on the autoroute. Interestingly there didn’t seem to be a premium for EV charging on the autoroute, earlier in the year at least. The cost of that worked out at about €0.17 a mile, which is nearer £0.20 a mile in the U.K. Mind you, at French prices the SLK is also costing about £0.20 a mlle. But I can put the roof down :)
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You mean you can’t drive 800 miles in a car without stopping? That’s only around 16 hours at the wheel.
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>> You mean you can’t drive 800 miles in a car without stopping? That’s only around
>> 16 hours at the wheel.
>>
My own liking of a reasonable fuel range is avoiding filling up at French service stations, very expensive, huge queues at times (especially at the ones that seem reluctant to release pumps!) and simply horrible places to visit. I have a lot of nice small cafe's / restaurants /road side vans etc that do great food/coffee stored in my satnav that I select depending on my route. If it's nice weather forecast we sometimes plan a picnic. These day I aim towards doing about max 1 1/2 hrs(ish) driving before some sort of stop. Fortunately I'm time rich now as I'm retired so I can also plan a few stop overs en-route, some for a few days!
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>> You mean you can’t drive 800 miles in a car without stopping? That’s only around
>> 16 hours at the wheel.
Inverness to Northampton on Sunday was 504 miles. Three stops.
Fuel bought at supermarket prices - 179.9 - and not on the rack at M/way services.
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Realistically 504 miles would require a couple of 30 minute stops in my electric ID3. which has a real world range of 230 miles. At the end of the day the journey time would not be wildly different to your experience. When I bought an electric car one of my worries was range but after nearly four years of EV driving I can say it simply is no longer is a concern.
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>> You mean you can’t drive 800 miles in a car without stopping? That’s only around
>> 16 hours at the wheel.
>>
I was thinking the same, largely unusable range beyond 500 miles. I guess there's always a few that just want to drive none stop. Even slightly more expensive mway services are neither here nor there in terms of going on holiday.
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>> I was thinking the same, largely unusable range beyond 500 miles. I guess there's always
>> a few that just want to drive none stop. Even slightly more expensive mway services
>> are neither here nor there in terms of going on holiday.
Five hundred, Inverness to Northampton or Caen Ferry port to the Auvergne is my max.
Even if we split the driving, and we rarely do these days, I wouldn't go much further. Eight or nine hours in the car is as much as I'd want to do.
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whoever specced my X1 originally , paid extra to have an increased fuel tank from 45 to 51 litres, a whopping extra gallon or so! (Or as BMW called it a 01AG Touring tank)
On an average of 45mpg, thats the difference between 450 miles and about 500 miles!
Of course on a motorway journey where you may be doing those distances, mpg is more likely to be the other side of 50mpg.
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>> whoever specced my X1 originally , paid extra to have an increased fuel tank from
>> 45 to 51 litres, a whopping extra gallon or so! (Or as BMW called it
>> a 01AG Touring tank)
The G31 holds a whopping 70 litres.........
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One of the reasons the S211 2004 e class estate had an 800 mile range was that the tank was 80 litres. Which meant in the fuel shortage of that year when localised spikes in pricing (profiteering if you like) nudged premium diesel up to almost £1 a litre led to a very expensive (but fuel card funded) tank of fuel! Premiums diesel being all that was available. Though, I never noticed any difference in economy or performance. In real terms the £70odd pounds it cost would be £130 or so today. Which is probably what it does cost to fill up a diesel e class nowadays, albeit with a tank that’s 25% smaller :)
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>> Five hundred, Inverness to Northampton or Caen Ferry port to the Auvergne is my max. Even if we split the driving, and we rarely do these days, I wouldn't go much further. Eight or nine hours in the car is as much as I'd want to do. <<
Back in 1966, while we were in Canada, we started our second camping circuit of the western States by covering 1060 miles in the first two days, in our red Morris 1100 (no trailer or roof box). There was really no reason to stop to look at anything between Edmonton and North Dakota.
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January this year to Nerja on the Costa del Sol for a couple of months:
Day 1 - Bristol to Poitier via Shuttle 605 miles
Day 2 - Poitiers to Fuentespina (south of Burgos) 487 miles
Day 3 - Fuentespina to Nerja 410 miles
Day 1 meant 3am start and with hindsight was too long
Day 3 needed to be at the apartment to collect key etc mid afternoon
I agree around 500 miles per day is a sensible limit - represents around 8 hours driving + a couple of stops for food, coffee etc = about 10 hour journey time.
Many years ago this would have been triivial. On holiday south of France (Cannes). Lost track of days, woke up one morning and realised we needed to go rapidly. Cannes to Hertfordshire - 900 miles - stop every 2 hours for coffee and/or fuel. Kn*******d by the time we got home.
Last edited by: Terry on Thu 4 Jun 26 at 12:39
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Hope you took a drive up to Frigiliana when you were in Nerja - love that place!
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>> Hope you took a drive up to Frigiliana when you were in Nerja - love
>> that place!
>>
Every september the Dutch expats organise a 4 day walking festival based in Competa, a 35 min drive from Frig. 3 levels of walks…highly recommended, good social scene, very well organised.
From my rented room in a town house ( arranged by Dutch) you could see the lights in Africa…I attended the festival september 2024.
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>> Hope you took a drive up to Frigiliana when you were in Nerja - love
>> that place!
>>
Frequent visitor - as we are in Nerja fr 8-10 weeks over the winter we often take visitors there.
I find the east of Malaga coast far more civilised than the west. Other towns which still function during the November - February period when many facilities shut down include Torre del Mar and Almunecar both of which have a lot going for them.
Inland from the costas is a different world. LL with his walking will know this but many tourists never go inland which can be heavily forested and mountainous, nor viit Malaga properly. Aside from the airport, docks and grot that exists in any large city there is a huge amount of culture.
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Have stayed in Nerja once , hired a villa, one of these amazingly cheap deals, got a hire car at Malaga through Doyouspain for something silly like £4 a day and it was a brand new Renault Captur.
Had my first proper Spanish Tapas, sitting outside a bar where the 3 walkways merged and it was fantastic. Had a fantastic paella on the beach, the pan was the size of a small country and just had folk queuing up for platefuls.
Thought Nerja itself was very Spanish with the white walled narrow streets until we visited Frigilana one day - stunning place and views.
Agree, much nicer than Torremolinos side - that is far too union jacky and sunday roast for me.
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Meanwhile I'm topping up the fuel in my EV for the princely sum of -1.30p per kwh this afternoon, and no AdBlue to worry about either. Yes, I'm being paid to do it because it's a nice windy day.
£100 fill ups? I barely ever experience a £10 fill up these days.
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And I thought from the OE forum I was pretty much alone on the Agile tariff!! :-)
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And when you’re in a Care Home paying £2k a week you’ll regret not driving aV8 Cobra ( although i hope it doesn’t come to that).
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Filled the Vitara yesterday in Jaca ( Spanish Pyrenees)…avoided having to fill just over the border.
paid €1.359 for 95 octane…570 kms yesterday afternoon, mostly off motorway but wasn’t brave enough to drive through Zaragoza so used the Z40 to miss that stress.
Overnight in Alhamsa ( 26C @ 23:00 last night, almost put ice in my Fundador brandy) here Plenergy 95 octane is €1.429
I’m wondering if the Spanish Govt have reduced fuel duty for a second time as it seems remarkably cheap ?
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A little bit off topic, but the S Cross is only using abot 64% of the fuel the Korando was, but around town (locally) it's only using 50%.
Oh Paul. Why didn't I listen to you before....
Last edited by: ORB>>> on Fri 5 Jun 26 at 07:57
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>> A little bit off topic, but the S Cross is only using abot 64% of
>> the fuel the Korando was, but around town (locally) it's only using 50%.
>>
>> Oh Paul. Why didn't I listen to you before....
>>
So pleased your happy with it ORB.
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>> And when you’re in a Care Home paying £2k a week you’ll regret not driving
>> aV8 Cobra ( although i hope it doesn’t come to that).
>>
I doubt that very much. Nasty things. I really think my EV is far, far more enjoyable for my commuting, school running, shopping, long drives across France on holiday, all that.
I think I will though have a classic ICE car, to my tastes, in the garage when I retire, for some summer weekend fun and outings to car shows etc.
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>> And I thought from the OE forum I was pretty much alone on the Agile
>> tariff!! :-)
Been saving hundreds across my whole bill every year, not just on EV charging, for many years now on that tariff. It's brilliant.
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£155.00 in the van this week 24-25 mpg. Painful.
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Filled up this morning at Capel St Mary A12 Esso. 145.9p litre.
Truck driver on HGV pump £600.00 Ouch.
Last edited by: ORB>>> on Sun 14 Jun 26 at 16:56
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Departing N coast of Spain & Picos today heading SE.
Filled up Sofia Suzuki at my nearest place, Cangas de Onis last night. €1.797 (£1.50) given yesterday’s Revolut exchange rate of €1.178.
The Spanish Govt continue to reduce fuel duty…
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I suspect you have the Spanish people to thank for that rather than the govt :-)
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Im expecting a thread soon..The £200 Fill up.
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I've almost filled up the work Sprinter twice this week at Tesco pay-at-pump. On both occasions it hit the £120 card limit before the pump cut-off.
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Filled up the RAV yesterday at Morrisons. Put £83 of E10 in on top of the free £30 worth put in earlier ! Probably won't have the light coming on until March with mileage I do.
Brimmed up the tyrant queen's Micra last week , used to be £40, now £65.
Two 7KG Butanes yesterday came to £83 as well !
Ted
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Coming south down the M1 yesterday, signs were saying 'no fuel at Watford gap services'. Tesco fuel station was closed today when I went past.
Don't want to start a panic, but what's happening?
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What's happening,? Well as you know there are only five oil refineries in the UK. The largest Fawley closed down end Sept for scheduled maintenance for months. I believe 20% of the UKs Forecourt fuels gone.
So probably the plan was buy it in until its back on line.
Well funny thing Russian refineries keep exploding by sacrificing themselves to hyper accurate drone 'debris' after the Russkies shoot down 103% of Ukraine's drones. Anyhoo the shortage is refined fuels not crude. So supplies are erratic. Simple supply and demand means price rationing and shortages.
Long story short even if you buy an EV everything everywhere is moved by a diesel truck. So high prices and inflation.
And remember Coco the Prime Minister wants you to lay in supplies in case his useless administration messes up the country..even more than he has already
.
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>>the Prime Minister wants you to lay in supplies
As do several other European countries. Perhaps they know something that the general public do not.
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>> >>the Prime Minister wants you to lay in supplies
>> As do several other European countries. Perhaps they know something that the general public do
>> not.
Several sources say that collapse of the National Grid is the key worry.
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>> >> >>the Prime Minister wants you to lay in supplies
>> >> As do several other European countries. Perhaps they know something that the general public
>> do
>> >> not.
>>
>> Several sources say that collapse of the National Grid is the key worry.
Energy in general. I would say wind back the electric car incentives but petrol/diesel is also vulnerable.
The angry toddler in the White House has much to answer for. The celebrations when he dies will go on for weeks.
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>The celebrations when he dies will go on for weeks.
Yeah, celebrating someone's death if you don't agree with them is fairly common in some circles isn't it, à la Charlie Kirk?
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>> >The celebrations when he dies will go on for weeks.
>>
>> Yeah, celebrating someone's death if you don't agree with them is fairly common in some
>> circles isn't it, à la Charlie Kirk?
Not agreeing is neither here nor there.
Thatcher was different, she had been harmless for years. Trump has done incalculable harm and financial damage, not just to the US, and seems likely to continue. Of course a lot of people would much rather he was dead and will be very glad when he is.
Putin is now very much emboldened and it won't be the US that he attacks.
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>Trump has done incalculable harm and financial damage, not just to the US, and seems likely to continue.
In your opinion of course. There are plenty who disagree.
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>> >Trump has done incalculable harm and financial damage, not just to the US, and seems
>> likely to continue.
>>
>> In your opinion of course. There are plenty who disagree.
>>
In which case they needn't join in any celebration.
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>In which case they needn't join in any celebration.
A moot point. It's probably something they'd prefer no to be associated with.
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>> >Trump has done incalculable harm and financial damage, not just to the US, and seems
>> likely to continue.
>>
>> In your opinion of course. There are plenty who disagree.
And many more who would say it is a fact. Including you I suggest.
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>> >Trump has done incalculable harm and financial damage, not just to the US, and seems
>> likely to continue.
>>
>> In your opinion of course. There are plenty who disagree.
>>
Looking at the mid term polling I'm not sure there's plenty who disagree.
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Being slightly serious, I think there's a significant difference between celebrating someone's demise and, where that person is in major office the "changing of the guard" that event brings about.
I would find it quite easy under certain circumstances to do the latter, but not the former (though there are a few individuals currently in office around the world that might sorely test my feelings on that).
Thatcher has been mentioned. If she'd died in office, I might well have rejoiced if it had brought a change to the politics then in play. When she finally did die, a rather different figure to what she had been as PM, I found the "dancing on her grave" at best distasteful, and at worst far more disturbing than that.
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There are 4 UK refineries
Southampton, Humber, Pembroke & Stanlow (Cheshire)
Grangemouth closed - losing £1m /day and Lindsey - Bankruptcy/Fraud
Lindsey was bought by Phillips 66 who are "next-door", for storage only
Last edited by: Falkirk Bairn on Sat 24 Oct 26 at 09:04
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Back to the original train of this thread, I see it's mooted that a levy will be placed on imported fuel in the budget. Because fuel refined in GB is subject to a tax (zero emissions - thank minibraian) and imported fuel isn't, then imported fuel is cheaper to buy than the home grown stuff (I wonder why refineries are closing?). That is expected to raise the cost to the end user!
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Because fuel refined in GB is subject to a tax (zero emissions -
Can you elucidate? My understanding is that all diesel fuel whether imported or refined here attracts the same rate of fuel duty.
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>> Can you elucidate? My understanding is that all diesel fuel whether imported or refined here
>> attracts the same rate of fuel duty.
Not read into it but I'm assuming that some form of 'eco tax' is levied at the refinery on each litre produced or barrel of crude consumed.
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Ah
The Chancellor is exploring a carbon charge or carbon border adjustment mechanism (CBAM) to target imported refined fuels. This aims to match the net-zero and environmental costs already borne by domestic UK refineries.
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Oil Refineries and other Chemical plants in the UK are closing.
Grangemouth Refinery closed losing £1m per day. (400 direct jobs + some 2-3,000 contractors/suppliers etc etc)
2 or 3 other plants "next door" also closed. eg The Ethanol plant (70 direct jobs) many more jobs in suppliers) closed leaving the UK with just 1 remaining Ethanol plant - Ensus Wilton (presumably this was an ICI plant decades ago) Subsidised by Government to keep the doors open - food preservation uses lots)
Reeves gave £100m to keep the Ethylene plant running for 12 months
She came up and gave a speech regarding the Ethylene plant but called it the Ethanol Plant (closed 12 months earlier.
Her short speech was broadcast on the Scottish News Embarrassing is too polite a word for somebody 2nd in charge of the UK Government at that time!
Ineos mothballed 2 Chemical plants (possibly a 3rd plant) in Hull about 6 weeks ago
USA Chemical Companies have lower Gas costs (Internal US gas is way below World prices for LNG shipments) and Zero Carbon Tax
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According to the BBC the Govt is again freezing fuel duty in the wednesday budget. Why not reduce it during the current circumstances ? Would not reduced duty reflect n lower inflation as fuel is a major contributor to food price increases… if they can do it in Spain (€1.687 lyre this AM for 95 octane) why not in the UK ?
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>> According to the BBC the Govt is again freezing fuel duty in the wednesday budget.
>> Why not reduce it during the current circumstances ? Would not reduced duty reflect n
>> lower inflation as fuel is a major contributor to food price increases… if they can
>> do it in Spain (€1.687 lyre this AM for 95 octane) why not in the
>> UK ?
>>
Yes, cheaper fuel would be lovely. But it's cheaper in Spain because of lower taxation on fuel, whereas overall personal taxation in Spain is higher (according to Google). Swings and roundabouts.
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That’s true Bb, as confirmed by multinational
friends who now live permanently in Spain.
Their consensus of opinion is that higher earners should pay more tax, and lower earners, of which there are many, reap the benefits of cheaper motoring costs and generally lower food prices, although decent salmon is still €25kg on the fish counters I use.
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Why not reduce it during the current circumstances.
There is a better economic case for increasing it. The reason it has been frozen for so long is political rather than economic. Taxes need to increase. Fuel duty is an obvious and efficient tax.
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I would like something to happen to the "luxury car tax".
In my opinion, 40K threshold (50k for electric) doesnt quite fit the criteria of luxury any more. Maybe they could introduce a staggered levels from maybe £70k or whatever onwards?
Seem strange that a Ford Kuga priced at £40001 is taxed the same as a Bugatti/ Bentley etc
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Just come back down the M1 after a day at the Space Centre in Leicester with daughter, SiL and Grandson George - now 5.
Overhead gantries advertised no HGV fuel at Watford Gap.
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>> Overhead gantries advertised no HGV fuel at Watford Gap.
If, perhaps, they had wind of something in tomorrow's budget that meant they could charge more than today for the duel they already had in their tanks................................
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The last change in UK ffuel duty was 2011 - 15 years ago. VAT has changed/increased as the underpinning costs of oil, refining, retailing etc have changed.
In 2011 petrol was ~135p litre at the pump. Current price of ~170p is an increase of ~25%. This compares with a 58% rise in prices generally and a somewhat greater (not by much) increase in average pay.
No one likes increased prices - we would all rather spend any cash on things which give more obvious enjoyment.
Petrol is cheap and has been getting cheaper in real terms. The UK somehow expects to enjoy ever better living standards without actually making any real effort. This is not sustainable.
In short - stop whinging about how awful it is.
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In 2011 petrol was ~135p litre at the pump.
But there again in 2016 it was 109p a litre
Still think they should put up the duty though
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 27 Oct 26 at 20:38
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>Still think they should put up the duty though
And they should increase taxes on EVs to pay the full cost of power network and supply improvements.
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Actually I think that tax per mile travelled should be same whatever vehicle you drive. The Government clearly have this as their long term aim as evidence by the implementation of the new charges for EVs next year.
Network and supply improvement aren't solely down to EVs. In fact EVs have little to do with it.
They are a result of the patterns of power generation changing from fossil fuels to renewables and would be necessary if there wasn't a single EV on the roads.
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>> Network and supply improvement aren't solely down to EVs. In fact EVs have little to
>> do with it.
>>
>> They are a result of the patterns of power generation changing from fossil fuels
>> to renewables and would be necessary if there wasn't a single EV on the roads.
Interesting point. Typical consumption of an EV at 4 miles per kwh doing 8000 miles pa is 2000kwh.
Average domestic electricity consumptiion is ~3000kwh pa. Gas is ~10,000kwh - if this is largely replaced by heat pumps this would add ~3000kwh pa to each household.
There are ~30m households and ~30m cars on the road. At present ~3m cars are EV.
Current electricity demand for EVs is approximately 5% of domestic demand. Of total demand including manufacturing, retail, office etc I would guess electricity demand from EVs is 3-4% of total UK demand.
It is entirely fair to conclude EVs have very little impact on current network upgrades.
Over the next 15-25 years the impact of gas bolier replacement is likely to be at least as important as EVs in the need for network upgrades,
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> In fact EVs have little to do with it.
I was pointing out how easy it is for any one of us to sit back and call for particular taxes to be increased that have zero or negligible effect on us personally.
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An increase in fuel duties would affect us all substantially whatever vehicle we drive. We also all have the option to changing to an EV although I doubt it will save you money overall.
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I'm seeing a similar argument on an energy forum where the generally rather well heeled geeks who can afford heat pumps batteries and solar are saying they should tax gas heavily to drive people to heat pumps..
Many people don't have the option of even upgrading their ICE vehicle let alone to an EV.
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To achieve energy independence we need as a nation to move away from fossil fuels and towards electricity. Difficult but electricity has to be the future. We will not be burning gas in a 100 years. Electrification is inevitable.
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>> To achieve energy independence we need as a nation to move away from fossil fuels
>> and towards electricity. Difficult but electricity has to be the future. We will not be
>> burning gas in a 100 years. Electrification is inevitable.
I wholly agree.
The only questions are how we get there, timescales, and who pays.
Personal view - put in place sticks and carrots to make it happen rapidly. Vulnerability of the UK to external fuel supplies and their cost has been blindingly obvious to all over the last 5 years.
That there may be an upfront cost to enable rapid transition is inevitable - although the case could be made through downstream savings in the future.
Who pays is influenced by politics, personal affordablity and fairness.Taxing larger vehicles, increased VAT on domestic fuels, government grants met through general taxation increases etc etc are all fair game - there will be winners and losers.
Sadly the three concepts are often unaligned. Our political elites would like to implement policies which cost no-one anything, or target a populist hate group (banks, billionaires etc). We need a political elite with "balls" who deliver not kick the can down the road to avoid the issue.
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" target a populist hate group (banks, "
Healey put it quite neatly in his Budget speech - the taxpayer helped the banks in 2008 and now it's their turn to help us.
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So how do we prevent the big companies buying up and building all the renewables and then just exporting it all to the highest bidder?
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>> So how do we prevent the big companies buying up and building all the renewables
>> and then just exporting it all to the highest bidder?
>>
There's a limit on how much we can export via the interconnectors.
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>There's a limit on how much we can export via the interconnectors.
If there isn't a legal requirement that govt approval is needed to export power from new facilities then someone needs to be jailed.
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>> >There's a limit on how much we can export via the interconnectors.
>>
>> If there isn't a legal requirement that govt approval is needed to export power from
>> new facilities then someone needs to be jailed.
>>
What do you mean by new facilities? Do you mean new interconnectors or something else?
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As Bobby posted - renewables. But I would also include power from any facility approved since we recognised that we have a power capacity problem.
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Each power station or electricity generation facility can't export to another country, not yet anyway. There's one planned that may be able to.
At the moment the source of electricity through the interconnectors (IC) doesn't really matter. It will be from multiple sources of generation, different power plants and so on.
How much goes through the ICs is governed by agreements when they were built. I can't remember the exact number but it's something like, 10% of your total power generation you can export or import at any given time.
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I thought we'd been importing electricity from France for years?
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>> I thought we'd been importing electricity from France for years?
>>
Yes i believe the first IC was built alongside the channel tunnel.
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>> Yes i believe the first IC was built alongside the channel tunnel.
The present set up did indeed come alongside (through?) the chunnel but the first France/UK interconnector dated back to 1961.
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but the first France/UK
>> interconnector dated back to 1961.
>>
I didn't know that.
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>> I didn't know that.
I was sure I had a book as a child in the late sixties/early seventies that mentioned the existence of an Anglo/French link.
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Yes, it was 160mw opened in 1961. Just looked it up.
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>> I thought we'd been importing electricity from France for years?
There are various interconnectors to France, Netherlands etc. There usage is visible on the various apps/sites showing how the Grid performs: www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
I think the point being made is that where there is excess supply from (eg) wind there's no means to send those specific electrons to the French.
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>>There are various interconnectors to France, Netherlands etc. There usage is visible on the various
>> apps/sites showing how the Grid performs: www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ >>
Quite so. I like this site.....
www.energydashboard.co.uk/live
It must be really difficult for NESO to balance the supply because tonight there is virtually no wind and nil solar contribution necessitating about 50% gas, but only a a day or so ago at midday there was loads of wind and solar at midday contributing well over 50%.
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>>tonight there is virtually no wind and nil solar
That is what those giant batteries are for. Charge up when electricity is plentiful and cheap. Sell it to the grid when it is dear. They are starting to be used at home also and that will increase as battery costs come down. Then there are some EVs with bidirectional charging.
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>How much goes through the ICs is governed by agreements when they were built.
Good. So that addresses Bobby's scenario and covers what I said.
That there are contracts/agreements in place to specify how and to whom the output is sold. And, presumably, those contracts apply even on change of controlling interest.
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>> >How much goes through the ICs is governed by agreements when they were built.
>>
>> Good. So that addresses Bobby's scenario and covers what I said.
>>
>> That there are contracts/agreements in place to specify how and to whom the output is
>> sold. And, presumably, those contracts apply even on change of controlling interest.
>>
Yes, there are limits but they have been breached but i don't think it's happened very often. The output is fixed in that there is only one buyer. The agreements have large gov involvement from both sides. It's not left purely to the markets.
I think you're wondering if there is a shortage of electricity that the gov could order them to stop exporting to stabilise the grid. Possibly, the rules around it are very technical. The limits aren't necessarily around energy security or self sufficiency but more around balance, although you could it's the same. Possibly. :)
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>> I'm seeing a similar argument on an energy forum where the generally rather well heeled
>> geeks who can afford heat pumps batteries and solar are saying they should tax gas
>> heavily to drive people to heat pumps..
>>
>
I think it will happen but it's decades away yet. There's not enough capacity in the installation side, just look how long smart meters have taken to roll out.
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>An increase in fuel duties would affect us all substantially whatever vehicle we drive.
How does fuel duty affect driving costs for EV owners?
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We go to several places nearby where petrol is a lot cheaper than our nearest staion... ASDA. infact usually 9 or 10p less..
Every little helps.
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An increase in fuel duty affects the price of everything delivered by road.
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>> An increase in fuel duty affects the price of everything delivered by road.
>>
Yes, and for the majority who run ICE vehicles it is a double whammy with the biggest hit when they fill up.
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>An increase in fuel duty affects the price of everything delivered by road.
Oh for Glub's sake. Stop dancing around.
'I think that fuel duty should be increased.' is a perfectly valid and reasonable opinion but don't be surprised when someone points out the fact that you manage to avoid it by not being required to pay any fuel duty at all could have something to do with that opinion.
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Fuel is quite incredibly cheap and the attention paid to its forecourt price completely disproportionate to its relative importance to household budgets.
The minimum wage of ~£13 per hour will buy ~7.5L of petrol. Enough to move 1500kg about 75 miles. The total spend for an average of 8000 miles pa would be ~£1350.
I would hazard a guess that for a typical household this represents 15-25% of what gets spent on food, and 10-20% of the cost of rent or mortgage. Discussing fuel costs is a bit like debating whether QPR will win the cup this year - interesting for some but utterly pointless.
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“the fact that you manage to avoid it by not being required to pay any fuel duty at all could have something to do with that opinion.”
Do you mean in way having to pay fuel duty wil have something to do with whether you believe it is a reasonable and efficient form of taxation?
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The £100 Fill Up - Robin O'Reliant
