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On another forum someone asked if it was OK to fit winter tyres to the front wheels only. I said it was a recipe for disappearing backwards into the scenery at the first slippery bend and was dangerous. Was I right?
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 17 Nov 10 at 00:49
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I reckon it's better to go through the hedge backwards - you can't see what's coming. ;>)
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If FWD, you are correct.
If RWD, no point in steering if you cannot go with no grip on rear driven wheels..
Cheapskates buy no winter tyres, idiots waste money with two imo..
Having said that, I drove in Scotland with winter tyres on a RWD and got through when everyone else was stopped.
But that was an Austin A30 some 40 years ago...
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Dunno. My van had "mud and snow" tyres on the front when I bought it, though. Poor traction in the wet, to say the least.
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There are few clips on YouTube which shows what can happen if you don't fit winter tyres on all 4 wheels.
In short, it is not good idea.
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The multinational I used to work for would only pay for 2 winter tyres on the company cars for its sales staff in the US. US based companies never fail to amaze me in their ability to take penny pinching onto a whole new level.
Here in Germany it's considered taboo to have different tyre types on different axles, though it isn't technically illegal.
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Winter tyres on the front only of FWD cars is no big deal. Our farming family living in the most difficult countryside seemed to manage in all weathers over decades with just one pair of T & C tyres on the appropriate end.
Furthermore many folks will downgrade from a cars OE tyres to some budget ditchfinders put on one axle only. Often the difference in their wet road handling is at least as much as that between quality winter/standard tyres.
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Spent a winter in the north of Finland-inside the Arctic Circle and most FWD cars were only fitted with studs on the front wheels.
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Good drivers the Finns. Bit like the Scots really...
:-)
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Studs only on the driven wheels makes sense - after all, you would usually only fit one set of chains (or do AWD cars fit two sets?).
If one set of summer tyres still has a reasonable amount of tread (8mm or so), I woule be tempted to only fit one set of winter tyres in the UK on the grounds that the number of times you will have snow is probably quite small. Just drive carefully around corners.
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I wonder what the insurance companies would think of missmatched summer / winter tyres. The assesor checked my tyres after a minor bump.
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Winter tyres are not just for snow, at least those sold for mid-European conditions. There are also Scandinavian "winter tyres" and they might well be assuming several months of snow cover.
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I'm sure it's advised against - it must fall into the same bracket as having new tyres at the front and old ones on the back - though that was my habit for many winters in the kneehills of the Pennines when I had a front drive car!
Defintely 4 wintery ones would be better. I get a demonstration of what it feels like when the back tries to overtake the front whenever I'm a bit heavy with the brakes on our S3 Landy - the rears lock easily in the wet, and unless you get off the brake and get some traction back it's the nearest ditch or oncoming vehicle for sure. The CRV is much better in a few inches of snow for that reason alone (never mind that it doesn't rain in as well).
It's a common misconception that the front wheels do all the steering - they all do. One of those QI type facts.
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I tend to agree with Fenlander and wouldn't be too worried about running winters on the drive axle only, mind you the other 2 tyres would be of a decent quality anyway selected for wet grip as the number one priority.
Maybe this winter tyre thing is best kept quiet, given the antics we see on a daily basis maybe it's for the best that many get stuck on a flat car park and leave the roads clutter free.
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>> It's a common misconception that the front wheels do all the steering - they all
>> do. One of those QI type facts.
Well said.
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Are winter tyres really necessary for most parts of the UK? I've never fitted winter tyres, and I imagine most people don't either.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Wed 17 Nov 10 at 08:00
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"I've never fitted winter tyres, and I imagine most people don't either."
And what a fine example they set in 1 cm of snow, not at all the laughing stock of Europe.
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Maybe, but as we've discussed elsewhere, until they become the norm the minority that have them will continue to have their way blocked by the majority that don't. It'll take legislation - unlikely, since it seems hard enough to enforce rules on one set of tyres - or incentives or threats from insurers to change that.
It's an expensive mistake to try to equip yourself with a vehicle that can cope with every situation that might occur. As well as the winter tyres (and four wheel drive, naturally) for the ten snowy days of a typical south-of-England winter), you'll need seven seats for the in-laws' biannual visit, and that big V8 engine for the summer cruise to the south of France. The rest of the year, you just have to drag around a lot of heavy and expensive features that add no value at all.
Better by far to have something that does its regular tasks satisfyingly well - see the Perfect Car thread for my thoughts on that - and make other arrangements for exceptional circumstances. And, until things change, don't worry about tyres that will probably only get you further from home before you get stuck.
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Winter tyres on the front in a FWD will be fine in all situations apart from downhill braking in cold ambient temps - doesn't have to be snowing, just cold and your front winter tyres will have much better grip than the rears.
There's not really a solution to that one if you've only got grip at the front, reversing down hill would make it worse.
Fishtailing down a hill screams impending doom, it takes a lot of nerve to keep it together and come off the brakes and build up speed towards what you're braking for (to get some grip again).
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"it'll take legislation"
Like the one that says we all have to have insurance?
Edit, I just read the end of your sentence... Not had a coffee yet.
Last edited by: BiggerBadderDave on Wed 17 Nov 10 at 09:41
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>> Maybe, but as we've discussed elsewhere, until they become the norm the
>> minority that have them will continue to have their way blocked by the
>> majority that don't.
That's rubbish. The majority of people, including people posting here, would *still* get into trouble/be unable to drive in snow even *with* Winter tyres.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 17 Nov 10 at 13:11
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How do you work that out. The Brits are better drivers in every measurable way than the Poles, yet I've never seen a Pole in trouble or unable to drive on winter tyres.
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>> "I've never fitted winter tyres, and I imagine most people don't either."
>>
>> And what a fine example they set in 1 cm of snow, not at all
>> the laughing stock of Europe.
>>
I regularly cross the Lincolnshire Wolds in all weathers without problem.
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>>I regularly cross the Lincolnshire Wolds in all weathers without problem.
What! Without getting stuck on all those steep hills? ;>)
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>> On another forum someone asked if it was OK to fit winter tyres to the
>> front wheels only. I said it was a recipe for disappearing backwards into the scenery
>> at the first slippery bend and was dangerous. Was I right?
>>
You may be right; we are just about to find out. Mrs H works shifts at a hospital in Darlington, 15 miles away. Owing to the completely barmy hospital management who want a fee for the use of the hospital car park but will not guarantee her a space, she feels obliged to park in nearby residential streets and every year she is at the mercy of the apparently random gritting and snow clearing programme in the town.
My plan is to buy another rim for the C3 and put winter tyres on the spare wheel and the new rim. One of the winter tyres will become the spare in summer. Don't go all gloom and doom on me; we can cope with mismatched tyres, we are just after a little more grip. Anyone who can drive a Citroen AX with Michelin and Tigar combination on the front without coming to grief will surely cope with a bit more traction from the front in bad weather.
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Hands up all forum members who fit winter tyres for use in the UK.
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Hands up all forum members who would like to spend the night with these guys
tinyurl.com/ybfp3dm
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But Dave, the cars in your link were stopped by a heavy fall of fresh snow, and it's hard to see how winter tyres would have helped them. Last winter in England was unusual in that old snow hung around for days - as I imagine it does much more in central Europe - so many more roads were under a layer of packed snow, on which winter tyres could gain some purchase.
My point here is that, unlike Poland, England so seldom produces the conditions in which winter tyres are beneficial that it's hardly surprising if English drivers are less capable in their use than their Polish counterparts.
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There is a risk of generalising re English climate. There are many areas which are subject to more frost-days than the SE! Here's an interesting (wel, to me) article: www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=903459&mid=0&i=20&nmt=Winter%20Tyres&mid=0 Page 2 shows some info on winter temps in the link. I won't attempt to counter the "snow only fall a few days a year" argument because its not really anything like the real picture. SWMBO re-fitted her winter tyres yesterday: she needs them because she quite often travels to and around Buxton. I still run summer tyres because I intend to change vehicles and don't want a set I can't use! Have to use her Jazz in the Peak district. Humph.
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Absolutely, NES, which is why I've tried to refer to the South in my other posts, and used the term England elsewhere to avoid roping in other parts of these islands that do get more severe winters. But I live in the Thames Valley - albeit a part with some steep hills - and BBD's link concerned the A3 near Petersfield, which is hardly the Matterhorn.
Certainly there are parts of England where winter tyres are justified or even necessary; I just can't see them adding significantly to my mobility or safety this winter.
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I'm sure if I tried I could find links of chaos in London and cars that can't even get out of car parks.
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Honestly WdeB, you'd be amazed at what a winter tyre will plough through.
My last set of winters cost less than £250 and lasted 6 years, in fact I'm going to sell them on ebay, as they don't fit my new car. What's that, £40 a year to make sure I never get stuck, never have to stay at home, never have to change my plans or my routine... less than AA membership I'll bet.
"English drivers are less capable in their use than their Polish counterparts"
I keep saying it, Poles are dreadful in all weathers, the tyres allow them to be dreadful without getting stuck. They have no special skills whatsoever, more like special needs.
"England so seldom produces the conditions in which winter tyres are beneficial"
Watch this space, we'll see what happens in a couple of months...
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>> Hands up all forum members who fit winter tyres for use in the UK.
>>
Me.
But only because I bought a set for driving to the Alps/Europe in winter and, having bought them, might as well use them over here (1 December to 1 March). Mind you, having experienced them, when they wear out I will probably replace them even if we are no longer needing them for European trips.
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>> Hands up all forum members who fit winter tyres for use in the UK.
>>
Me, for mainly UK and one or two Europe trips per season. I usually put them on end of October and remove end of February although I've now got Nokians that are classed as winter but you can apparently drive on them all seasons so will see how they wear.
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>> >> Hands up all forum members who fit winter tyres for use in the UK.
>> >>
And me on the pick up, on a spare set of alloys i found on ebay, in 4WD i'm not sure just how deep snow would have to be stop it but that isn't the reason for using them, it's the cold wet and ice grip which is far above summer tyres in the same conditions.
The truck is intended to be kept till it (or i) peg out, so the tyres will cost nothing over time.
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Anyone who has driven in Stoke on Trent knows it has lots of hilly sections.
Even the best 4x4 with winter tyres is going to get stuck in snow - behind lorries/buses or cars who are stuck..
If I drove cross country a lot in winter - or to and from Buxton in winter - they are essential.
But my winter drives are all optional. So I don't.
I did drive thousands on miles in snow in a Rover 800 without winter tyres. The ABS did not like it...It was a horrible car in most respects but handled snow quite well.. Much better than any RWD car in the circumstances.
Give me a small car with no power and narrow tyres...anyday or 4wd and winter tryres...
Last edited by: madf on Wed 17 Nov 10 at 12:14
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Buxton. I lived there for 25 years and still work there after thirty five years. Snow severity is not what it used to be. But I have invested in a pair of snow socks in case I get caught out.
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Well last year was our worst winter for years and I never got stuck at all with normal tyres.
Yes it made driving interesting at times but hey, I enjoyed that but
1. I would hate to invest in winter tyres and then be stuck behind a car that has blocked the road anyway. I would feel cheated.
2. I would hate to have lovely nice snow and not be able to have that rush of adrenalin driving in the snow, having to use different skills, different judgements and sometimes different routes to the normal, not to mention trying to get away from standstill on a slight incline!
3. Do winter tyres prevent you practising your drifting skills in deserted car parks?
I still don't buy into the new tyres onto the rear axles first so on that basis, if I was to get winter tyres I would only get a set on my driven wheels ie front.
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I've never used them Bobby although there have been odd occasions when they might have been useful I suppose. Possibly a case of what you've never had you don't miss.
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Funnily enough I'm off to euromaster to have the Smax switched back to winter tyres in about 30 minutes.
Having used them here (Geneva) for 2 winters, the difference on packed snow is incredible, but also useful grip improvements on ice, fresh snow and in standing water.
I'm a convert and will I invest in some when I come back to the UK.
Dan
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Once you try them, you never willingly go back. Too useful.
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Winter. Late 60s. Had 1600E. Was always in a hurry those days and on a country road I was trying to find a way past a lorry. Eventually achieved it but only with 2 wheels on the grass verge. Was I glad I had winter tyres - car never batted an eyelid.
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Just thought i'd pop in a recommendation for another online tyre site i've just bought from....Tyremen.co.uk...they also list winter tyres.
Ordered 2 new Vredesteins (one of their specialities) from them at the weekend for the C2 and they turned up today, best online price and easy ordering too.
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>> car never batted an eyelid.
>>
Of course it didn't!
Skinny (winter) tyres, no traction control, no PAS, and RWD.... you had full control of the car!
IMO the ideal setup for winter driving.
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>> >> Hands up all forum members who fit winter tyres for use in the UK.
Me. Just had them fitted.
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>> Me. Just had them fitted.
>>
Strewth T it's like extracting teeth.;)....you can't just tease us with a quick flash we need to delve deeper and see what you're wearing and how good and if you find 'em up to par in due course.
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Ordered mine this week over t'internet. Got a phone call yesterday - none left in stock at my size and no idea when there will be. Left it too late as usual.
I'm off to trawl the tyre places this afternoon. What fun.
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"Strewth T it's like extracting teeth.;)....you can't just tease us with a quick flash we need to delve deeper and see what you're wearing and how good and if you find 'em up to par in due course."
:-)
175/70 R14 Gislaved Nordfrosts. Just like last year and the year before. Seem to be good enough.
Last edited by: tyro on Wed 24 Nov 10 at 19:32
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...Gislaved Nordfrosts...
Top name, wish I could casually drop into conversation I've got some Gislaved Nordfrosts on the CC3. :)
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Gislaved Nordfrosts. Just like last year and the year before. Seem to be
>> good enough.
>>
Old respected name and proper winter stuff, where on earth do you find them if you don't mind me asking for future ref?
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"Old respected name and proper winter stuff, where on earth do you find them if you don't mind me asking for future ref?"
Well, I took them out of my garage, where they had been lying since April. I purchased them a year or two ago from my local chap, who ordered them from his supplier, and fitted them to my vehicle.
But would he be able to source them today? I rather doubt it. For a start, I can't find them on mytyres.co.uk - which makes me wonder if they stopped importing them into the UK in the past year or so.
But here is the really interesting thing. When I needed a couple of new tyres for my Ka a few weeks ago, I went to my local chap, having decided that I would try out Goodyear Vector 4 tyres - some well respected all season tyres. His supplier couldn't source them. At this point, I should have ordered them from mytyres, because mytyres do stock them. What he got me were . . . (wait for it) . . . some Gislaved summer tyres - "Speed 616" or something like that. He muttered something about that was all he was able to get, so I meekly accepted them.
The really curious thing is that when I had been in Inverness not long before, I asked about tyres for my Ka at Rapid Fit, and they told me that there were only two types they could offer me - and one was Gislaveds (presumably "Speed 616s"). (I can't remember what the other ones were.) It seems like Gislaved winter tyres have disappeared from Britain, and Gislaved summer tyres are everywhere.
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Got mine fitted on the company car a few weeks back. Just as well, I drove through a blizzard yesterday on the way back from Stuttgart to Munich. They're forecasting snow in Munich at the weekend so I'll have to trawl to the tyre place with the Merc at some stage and get them on. First though, it's the TÜV this afternoon.
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Winter tyres, front only? - bathtub tom
