I've been mulling it over on and off for a couple of years but now I'm very tempted.
The car is a 56 plate Passat 2.0TDi (140) manual which a local firm say they can re-map to 175PS and add an even bigger increase to the torque (over 30%). No new chip or box, just the existing chip re-mapped for about £350.
I'm not unhappy with present performance but would just like a bit more as long as it's significant.
Has anyone had this done to a similar vehicle? Was it a noticeable power/torque increase in use? Change to MPG?
Will the increases stress the engine/transmission?
Will my insurance go up? (it's actually very reasonable atm).
(sorry if this has been disussed before!)
Pat
|
|
How many miles has your car done, and has it had a full service history?
|
I am considering the same for my S-Max TDCi Auto. The best advice I could find was on the S-Max owners club website forum which indicated that a particular company was very reliable and helpful.
I would look for a VW owners club forum and see which firm is recommended.
For the record, Superchips (using Bluefin or a local dealer) were firm recommended. Using Bluefin means you do it yourself and can replace the 'upgrade map' with the standard map and vice versa at will. Useful for MoT and servicing if the car remains in warranty.
|
Car has done 53k miles, 30k on current engine (it's had 2 replacement engines under warranty!). No longer under warranty.
Espada I seem to remember that firm being recommended by HJ.
The company (VW/Audi specialists) say the change is undetectable, ony noticed by actually driving the car.
|
undetectable until the performance map is interrogated; either during service or warranty work or after an accident. In which case it can be detected. No problem if you have advised your insurers though.
I have just asked the insurance question and depending on the outcome.......
|
Diesels respond well, they end up producing more torque lower down and you often save fuel driving like for like. The car will be able to drink more than it can just now when you're pushing it.
I think theyre being a bit optimistic with the figures, all tuners are. It won't be far off those figures right enough. It will drive like a new car.
It will give the engine the ability to stress the engine internals and gearbox and crucially the clutch. Your car will handle it, this drivetrain is well proven for remaps, nothing will go bang just from an enthusiastic right foot but if you use the torque a lot you'll obviously wear things out sooner. Same applies for a non remapped car too, stress it, expect to repair it sooner.
Depends on the insurer, some are free for remaps (Skoda, rac), some are expensive, some don't entertain it at all (admiral).
Are you going with a reputable company? I'd avoid the ones that resell generic maps off a cd bought over the Internet and stick to a proven crowd. Revo are the leading light for VAG.
|
Thanks for the replies. very useful.
The outfit I'm talking about are authorised Custom Code dealers, and they 'reflash' the ECU via the diagnostic port according to their website.
|
A friend of mine has had is 150bhp 1.9 Turbo deisel Astra re-mapped up to over 200bhp and he has said that its the best thing he could do for the car, the perfomance now is out of this world
However
To cope with all this power he has had to uprate the tyres, and brakes (inc discs) however there is so much power and tourqe under there its amazing.
|
>> To cope with all this power he has had to uprate the tyres, and brakes (inc discs) however
>> there is so much power and tourqe under there its amazing.
I wonder what his insurance company said and by how much was the premium increased? Not just remapping but changing tyres and brakes.
|
I had mine remapped from 153 to 195 and similar torque increases.
It was at a chip and spin rolling road day in Bromsgrove for £250 all in with before and after print outs. You don't have to upgrade anything unless you drive differently. I prefer just to ride along on a higher wave of torque, stay in higher gears, few gear changes up inclines etc... and of course overtaking is safer.
|
|
sooty - what was the name of the place in Bromsgrove? It's not too far from me.
|
The place in Bromsgrove is called HLM (it's just behind Kwik-fit, near Broad Street DIY), I used them in the past to remap my Volvo, which they did without fuss. I had no complaint with them at all.
However, a couple of years back HLM fell out with some members of the Volvo community after a bit of bad press on a job that allegedly went wrong. Can't say any more that that.
Some folk speak highly of HLM and Hamish himself, others wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire...
All I can say was, I was happy with the work they did for me.
Last edited by: oilburner on Tue 11 Jan 11 at 10:43
|
>> I wonder what his insurance company said and by how much was the premium increased?
>> Not just remapping but changing tyres and brakes.
>>
>>
>>
He has declared it all, im not sure how much of a increase it was, but he has done no external modifications, apart from lowering the suspension so its not that "bling" however its all fully declared to the insurance co
|
If the manufacturer supplies the same engine in a higher state of tune then you are unlikely to have any issues. I've had two (petrol) cars remapped, one (manual) at 93,000 which was still going strong at 175,000, the second at around the same mileage (auto) and it's problem-free at 153,000. Fuel consumption was unchanged, but certainly with the manual where a bigger power/torque increase was achieved, the performance difference was very noticeable. Auto less so, but I'd had it a shorter period when it was converted so less comparison really - the power was only a relatively small boost but the torque went up by 20%. Let's just say the performace is "adequate" as RR used to say ;-)
In my experience, it's the suspension that's often a limiting factor on power increases. Once you've got the extra power, you might feel the urge to improve the suspension to make use of it.....
Last edited by: Mike H on Mon 10 Jan 11 at 21:17
|
|
Mike - VW/Audi do a 170 version of the 2 litre diesel but is everything else the same as the 140?
|
|
No idea Pat, I'm a Saab man! I was really just moved to make a general comment, I'm sure one or other of the regulars will know the answer to that one. In Saab terms, there are only two basic petrol engines (2.0 & 2.3) and the only differences between them are the ECU, the internals are the same. If VW follow the same route, it's logical that an aftermarket ECU upgrade will achieve much the same result - although certainly with the Saab options, different tuners achieve different results with respect to torque curve, some are better than others.
|
Contact upsolute.com (Simon Coe).
Martin.
|
UPSOLUTE England
CCC Technology
Simon Coe
Dronfield - Derbyshire
England
Telephone: (+44)-(0)1246 888792
Fax: (+44)-(0)795 724 0822
E-mail: contact
Information:
|
I've looked into this for the Golf on a few occasions. On this engine/transmission, most maps sit around the 170 bhp mark because the 280 odd lb/ft of torque at that level is approaching the upper limit for the standard clutch and flywheel. The engine will map to well over 200 bhp, but the standard clutch and flywheel won't cope with that. Once you start changing expensive hardware like like flywheels and clutches, it's no longer a cheap upgrade and becomes a serious modification.
I have traditionally been sceptical about remapping, but the PD engine (and I'm sure others) seems to cope just fine. On another forum I visit occasionally, there's a guy who's put 70,000 miles on a remapped PD150 Golf and it hasn't skipped a beat. The interweb seems remarkably free of horror stories.
|
Has anyone ever done a serious / investigative study of remapping?
By serious / investigative I don't just mean a technical study from a scientific, engineering, or academic point of view. I would include something fairly serious from a consumerist point of view. Pretty much everything I've read has either been on forums, or from the websites of companies that do remapping.
I know that AutoExpress did an article on the subject, but it struck me as pretty lightweight. I have not, for example, seen any coverage of the issue from What Car? and Which? - consumerist magazines aimed at the car buying general public (whereas AutoExpress is an enthusiast magazine aimed at people who think they know about cars.)
At the moment, there seem to be people who throw their hands up in horror at the thought of remapping, and warn that all kinds of terrible things might happen - but I've not come across any balanced, informed, authoritative study of the subject.
|
I contemplated this a few years ago with my Scenic and it was Simon Coe I contacted then and he was very helpful, supplied a lot of information etc. In the end I changed the car but if I had gone ahead, he was getting my business!
www.upsolute.com/index.php?option=com_upsolute&task=car&id=1674&id_marke=6&id_model=13287
|
|
Mate of mine has just bought a 52' plate 100k Passat and has had it re-mapped, but by whom I know not. He has put 5k on it now and that too hasn't missed a beat. Go for it Pat, you won't regret it. Two votes for Simon Coe here.
|
|
Another vote for Simon Coe. I've had 2 cars done by him and will be looking to have my next car done as well.
|
|
Well that's 3 votes then. I am not sure whether to share my commission or not..:)
|
|
Many thanks for the info and recommendations. Simon Coe certainly sounds good but he's just south of Sheffield and I live in Worcestershire, so a bit of a trek. How long does it take to have the remap or whatever?
|
he's just south of Sheffield and I live in Worcestershire, so a bit of a trek.
If it's any comfort to you, Dronfield to Worcester comes up on Google maps as 111 miles - or 2 hours. If you live where I do, 2 hours is pretty standard for going for a service or MOT.
What?? It's no comfort at all to you?
Oh well, at least I tried.
:-)
|
Simon will come to you to do it - all part of the cost. It takes about 90 minutes.
*When* I buy my 159, he'll be one of the people I call shortly afterward.
|
Thanks dieselboy. That sounds like a great value service. I presume I could have it done at my workplace. So tempted!!!
|
An interesting discussion of this over at the other place: tinyurl.com/6efglrd
The posts by unthrottled make interesting reading. He sounds like he knows what he is talking about - but, not being an expert, I wouldn't know.
|
>> The posts by unthrottled make interesting reading. He sounds like he knows what he is
>> talking about
Absolutely, read what he says and use it as part of your information gathering but don't take it as gospel regarding reduced longevity. Admittedly not diesel, but I've had 2 petrol Saabs chipped with no apparent issues over the long term. Each have covered around 80-90,000 miles since chipping, neither were chickens when chipped (one done at 93,000/6 years old, the other at 76,000/5 years old). The older was a manual, the newer is an auto. The chipping keeps within the safe limits for the auto box. 265BHP and 420Nm of torque, more than most diesels, and no issues at 154,000 miles. Unchipped cars have had more problems than these.
The answer is, keep within sensible limits and perhaps change engine & auto box oils slightly more often.
|
Absolutely, read what he says and use it as part of your information gathering but don't take it as gospel regarding reduced longevity.
It is possible that he is right about longevity, but that it is, for practical purposes, irrelevant. What is the expected lifespan of a modern engine/drivetrain? If it happens to be 1,000,000 miles, and remapping reduces it to 600,000, very few people are going to be worried.
|
We seem to be mixing up remapping and chipping.
Does that matter?
I'm more comfortable with remapping, rather than wiring in a third party chip.
The extra performance is unlikely to cause a problem provided it is used sensibly.
The OP's Passat has been remapped.
He writes of the car being more 'agile', rather than outrageously quick.
|
We seem to be mixing up remapping and chipping.
Are we?
Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the term "chipping" is a fairly general term that is used to include both remapping as well as less sophisticated forms of chip tuning.
My understanding is also that unthrottled intends his comments to apply to remapping as much as to other forms of chipping.
|
>> Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the term "chipping" is
>> a fairly general term that is used to include both remapping as well as less
>> sophisticated forms of chip tuning.
Correct, when I said my Saabs were "chipped" I meant remapped. And interestingly, the one applied at 93,000 was from Saab themselves, increasing the power of a 2.0 low-pressure turbo from 150bhp to 192bhp, i.e. effectively turning it into a high-pressure turbo, which goes to show that there was plenty of potential and strength in the low-stressed standard offering.
|
I think it's a case of buyer beware, and is always worth researching the engine yourself.
The 1.8T 20v engine in my 99 Golf GTI makes 150 bhp, yet is mechanically identical to the 180 bhp version in the Audi TT and Seat Leon, and aside from compression ratio and turbocharger, near identical to the 225 engine as well. These early 1.8T 150s have forged pistons and the big port head of the more powerful engines, but running lower boost, and presumably a different fuelling and ignition map to suit.
This engine will remap easily to around 190 bhp, but then approaches the limits of the K03 turbo. The engine internals won't break a sweat at this level though. People have fitted the bigger K04 from the 225 TT (surprisingly awkward to do), and with suitable mapping gone over 250 bhp.
I think it's always worth doing your research, understanding exactly what you've got under the bonnet. If my car were three years newer, it would have an outwardly identical, but inwardly very different lump with different (lower grade) components. Ironically though the later engines more sophisticated management system is actually easier to remap.
Last edited by: DP on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 16:31
|
>> I think it's always worth doing your research, understanding exactly what you've got under the
>> bonnet. If my car were three years newer, it would have an outwardly identical, but
>> inwardly very different lump with different (lower grade) components. Ironically though the later engines more
>> sophisticated management system is actually easier to remap.
DP
I was looking at a parked 2003 Audi A4 Avant 1.8T today. Are you saying that the engine in one of these would have lower grade components compared to earlier engines? What about the quattro version, a model ripe for re-mapping? I know that the first generation A4 quattro's could easily produce 250+bhp without internal uprating.
|
Making a turbo-charged engine push out high outputs is easy through ECU reprogramming (up to the physical limits of the turbo itself).
Keeping it reliable is the 'magic'.
|
As the OP I thought add my two penworth. I don't know much about the technical side of things but I have been assured that my remap keeps the engine well inside limits. And it is significantly improved, and this has become more apparent over the last few days since I had it done, and so far the fuel consumption appears unchanged (i.e. still good!) jdging by the analogue guage. I'll make a more accurate measure of economy over the next month or so.
The Passat is a big, heavy car and the original 140PS was okay but a little stodgy at times. Now the car feels as if it's been to weightwatchers and shed a few hundred kg!!!
We picked up my wife's MINI Cooper D yesterday, and I'm very tempted to have it remapped (110 to 140PS) once it's out of manufacturer's warranty in a couple of months. Mind you, it has a 'sport button' which when activated seems to improve throttle response (anyone know how this actually works?).
Pat
|
>> Mind you, it has a 'sport button' which when activated seems to improve throttle response
I remember reading about it, i was hoping it was a "push to pass" type idea. How cool would that be! I guess a nitrous kit isn't prohibitively expensive, wire it to a switch below the throttle pedal :-)
As i understand it, it changes the throttle response in so much as 10% throttle pedal actuation gets translated to 20% at the ECU kind of thing. It'll feel faster response to the driver's input, but it wont really be faster response at the engine.
I understand it also disengages the aircon compressor and reduces electric power steering assistance (which should reduce power sapped by the alternator) so it should free up a couple of BHP (2-5bhp).
|
>> I was looking at a parked 2003 Audi A4 Avant 1.8T today. Are you saying
>> that the engine in one of these would have lower grade components compared to earlier
>> engines? What about the quattro version, a model ripe for re-mapping? I know that the
>> first generation A4 quattro's could easily produce 250+bhp without internal uprating.
This gives you an idea of how complex the situation is with regard to the VAG 1.8T engine:
www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34368
Mine's an 'AGU' which has forged pistons and crankshaft, and the so-called 'big port' head I do know that many later engines lost the forged crankshaft and had a revised, 'small port' head.
It's incredible that so many different versions of an engine can exist.
|
Volkswagen Passat - Re-mapping chip - opinions please - Zero
