As the likes of Skoda drift upmarket (in quality, if not price) is there room at the bottom of the new car market for some new budget brands, a Tesco Value car, if you will?
I ask, because I have heard (read) that PSA Peugeot Citroen are thinking of reviving the Talbot nameplate to market facelifted 206s, while Nissan are thinking about bringing the Datsun name back. Presumably they have seen how well Renault are doing with Dacia.
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Not sure there is, unless its a slightly larger car. Cars like the Panda/C1/I10 currently fill the budget gap far too well and even with these cars people will not put with budget building quality or features.
I certainly think there may be room for a mid size budget car, but it looks like MG are trying to fill that gap.
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My answer would be - probably not in the UK, where we like our deluxe fittings and equipment. But the French tend to buy standard models much more than we do - often beige-coloured - and might go for a cut-price version. They may also export them to developing countries.
That may be one reason why French buyers mostly stay loyal to French cars: the ones they buy don't have so many dodgy electrical extras to go wrong.
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Stripped out no frills cars can be great fun. I had a Mk1 Escort a lifetime ago which was little more than an engine, transmission, wheels and a bodyshell but it was a great drive. Best part for me as a young lad was that I could usually fix it myself with little more than a screwdriver and a hammer.
Downside now in some ways is the requirement for safety / emissions gubbins. All good stuff no doubt but also add to complexity, weight and cost.
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Yeah such cars would be illegal now. Even my budget car (which was one of the cheapest cars on the meercat when I bought it) has electric windows, central locking, cd player, airbags, ABS, power steering etc.
Modern buyers are far too fussy but that is because there is so much choice. That said a Mondeo size car at £9500 may be a hit. It would need efficient engines etc though or its pointless.
Laws and marketing conditions are very different from the days when brands like Lada where very popular. Oh and the Lada had some features my Panda lacks.
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lada was never very popular.
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Old skiing buddy of mine had one of those Lada 4x4 thingies. ( Cossack maybe ? )Horrible to drive but unstoppable off road and in proper snow.
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Lada Niva is being imported to the UK again.
markkey.co.uk/
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Budget cars with just the basics seem alright in principle but they wouldn't sell. Who'd buy a new car that was just a box on wheels when for the same money you could buy a low mileage two year old with all the toys and a decades useful life still in it.
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They where well over 100,000 Ladas on UK roads in the early 90's. I think the peak year was 1987 when around 28,000 where sold in the UK from memory.
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>> They where well over 100,000 Ladas on UK roads in the early 90's. I think
>> the peak year was 1987 when around 28,000 where sold in the UK from memory.
the other 98% sold that year were not Ladas,
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How many new cars where registered in 1987?
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>> How many new cars were registered in 1987?
SMMT, DVLA and howmanyleft all only go back to 1994ish.
But 2 million ish.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 10 Oct 11 at 23:45
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Anyone remember the short-lived 1970's fad for "popular" models? Stripped of all but the essentials, some models even had a passenger sun visor as an optional extra.
Absolute gift for the Japanese manufacturers, who responded by cramming their cars with added value accessories at no cost, and for the same price or less, changing everthing for the better. Final nail in the coffin was when the motoring press of the day revealed that the "popular" cars actually cost more to produce because of all the faffing about on the production line.
A strange marketing experiment, but one that we've all benefitted from; even the base models of "family" cars today are vastly superior in spec to mid or top range ones then. Only Volkswagen seemed to take a long time to catch on, their base Polos and Golfs were notoriously spartan inside although much better finished.
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>> Anyone remember the short-lived 1970's fad for "popular" models? Stripped of all but the essentials,
>> some models even had a passenger sun visor as an optional extra.
My Mum had a 1980 Escort Mk2 Popular Plus in hearing aid beige. Compared to the basic Popular it had a passenger sun visor, heated rear window, cloth seats and 13" wheels. Still had drum brakes, no passenger door mirror and an asthmatic detuned 1.1 litre engine which threatened to overheat should the driver try and break through the 60mph barrier. Awful car.
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>>>1970's fad for "popular" models
I remember the Vauxhall E models. The very basic Viva E model was initially a 2-dr Firenza bodyshell as they had loads spare (as I understand).
www.gregormarshall.co.uk/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/VauxhallVivaE1256.JPG
A bodyshell that didn't look to bad for the time in better trim..
www.histomobile.com/histomob/internet/177/523301.jpg
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 11 Oct 11 at 08:54
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There is something very clean and pleasing about that body design, only aged a little.
Like the Mk1 Escort, another nice basic bodyshell.
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I had a 1983 Mk II Polo Formule E when it was 20 years old. That didn't have a thing in it at all, apart from a heater (and a radio that didn't work). Great car.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Tue 11 Oct 11 at 10:24
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>> >>>1970's fad for "popular" models
>>
>> I remember the Vauxhall E models. The very basic Viva E model was initially a
>> 2-dr Firenza bodyshell as they had loads spare (as I understand).
>>
>> www.gregormarshall.co.uk/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/VauxhallVivaE1256.JPG
>>
That's got chrome door mirrors, bit upmarket for an 'E' ! The vast majority of the Firenza/Viva E models I saw were in pale blue, maybe they had a paint surplus in that colour. I do recall thinking at the time they must've had a load of Firenze bodyshells to use up.
>> A bodyshell that didn't look to bad for the time in better trim..
>>
>> www.histomobile.com/histomob/internet/177/523301.jpg
>>
Yeah, I still think the Firenza looks good in fancy Magnum 2300 Coupe form.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Tue 11 Oct 11 at 10:05
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>> >>
>> Yeah, I still think the Firenza looks good in fancy Magnum 2300 Coupe form.
>>
Like this:-
www.flickr.com/photos/albertsbite/2361384989/
Hardly 'budget' though I must admit.
Wasn't 'formel E' the VAG budget spec., or was that just the gutless engines?
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>> Wasn't 'formel E' the VAG budget spec., or was that just the gutless engines?
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It was the gutless "Eco engines" - which had a economy meter on the dash - never did understand how it worked through, the needle used to disappear behind the dash and only came out when you had it in overdrive....sorry 4th and then it used to wave up and down all the time
my ex girlfriend had one 1980 W reg - trim level included a radio with one speaker, yes one!
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It is said that the manufacturing cost of a car is about 25-30% of the list price.
i.e. Marketing, delivery, Profits for all in chain, VAT etc etc is 70%.
If we strip back a £10000 car to the minimum spec and save say 25% the cost of £3K (unlikely to be as high) of manufacture is £2250 so our stripped down basic car might have a list price of just over £9,000.
Stripped out base car £9,000, the extra £1,000 gave you better seats, more power, toys............few would, I suggest, try and save the £1,000 as it would be a difficult resell 3 years down th line.
It is easy to see where MB, BMW, Audi et al make their money when the 1 x item on the options price list looks like the cost of a family holiday. Other makes can incorporate all the "extras" in 2 or 3 model upgrades and make a handsome profit on each upgrade..
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Mrs madf drives a budget car: a Matiz. Cheap cheap ..
Aircon, ABS, front electric windows, stereo...
Says it all.
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I worked for a multi-national in the early/mid 70s - standard issue car was Cortina 1.6, Ls, 2.0 GL & GLS - costs were high for 500+ fleet so a decision was made to go for 1.3 entry level "lean burn" spec TO SAVE MONEY! Cheaper list price and smaller engine would save money - so the plan said..
2 years later - savings on list price of 1.3 Vs 1.6 disappears as nobody wants a 60K poverty spec, underpowered Cortina - the petrol savings evaporated when the 59BHP 1.3 had to be revved to make the heavy car body make progress - the 1.6L was not fast, by any means, but the 10-12 BHP difference meant it could get to 60 rather than the 1.3 which took 16/17 seconds.
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>> Anyone remember the short-lived 1970's fad for "popular" models? Stripped of all but the essentials,
>> some models even had a passenger sun visor as an optional extra.
My abiding memory of them is the black finish bumpers (instead of chrome) just at the time it was becoming "fashionable" - I have a niggling feeling that black bumpers became an extra cost item, rather than a marketing driod's idea of poverty/popular spec., quite soon after the model launch.
UK market doesn't do poverty spec happily, perhaps it's a class throwback?
Cleese:
(In bowler hat, black jacket and pinstriped trousers) I look down on him (Indicates Barker) because I am upper-class.
Barker:
(Pork-pie hat and raincoat) I look up to him (Cleese) because he is upper-class; but I look down on him (Corbett) because he is lower-class. I am middle-class
Corbett:
(Cloth cap and muffler) I know my place. I look up to them both. But I don't look up to him (Barker) as much as I look up to him (Cleese), because he has got innate breeding.
Cleese:
I have got innate breeding, but I have not got any money. So sometimes I look up (bends knees, does so) to him (Barker).
Barker:
I still look up to him (Cleese) because although I have money, I am vulgar. But I am not as vulgar as him (Corbett) so I still look down on him (Corbett).
Corbett:
I know my place. I look up to them both; but while I am poor, I am honest, industrious and trustworthy. Had I the inclination, I could look down on them. But I don't.
Barker:
We all know our place, but what do we get out of it?
Cleese:
I get a feeling of superiority over them.
Barker:
I get a feeling of inferiority from him, (Cleese), but a feeling of superiority over him (Corbett).
Corbett:
I get a pain in the back of my neck.
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>>>There is something very clean and pleasing about that body design (Firenza), only aged a little.
Yes I had a metallic blue one with white vinyl roof, Wolfrace alloys and 185/70s. Quite ashamed to say it was the standard 1200 engine though.
>>>Like the Mk1 Escort, another nice basic bodyshell
Yes... just add a set of Minilites with 70 series tyres plus a couple of big Hella spots and even a basic model looked good.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 11 Oct 11 at 11:02
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As said above we like our up market models in the UK but things are changing. China, India, and Brazil are expanding their economies while ours (and Europe) is shrinking. As we slowly decline I think we will be forced to accept "Budget" brands and specs. Renault is introducing Dacia in the UK soon, and other manufacturers are doing the same, they see the writing on the European wall. It may take decades but it is coming.
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Renault have about to introduce Dacia into the Uk for years, its never happened yet.
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See how fast it happens when up market model sales start falling. I notice that Turkey (where the Dacia is built) has gone quiet about joining the EU and Euro zone, I wonder why?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 11 Oct 11 at 11:19
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Budget Marques - RattleandSmoke
