Despite the Party's problems, we are still plugging away!
www.ukip.org/ukip_response_to_the_autumn_statement
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In 2009 I earned £22k a year less than I do now.
But I am poorer now. Everything else being equal I now have lost child benefit, my interest income is significantly lower, my shares are worth significantly less, my council tax is more, my kids pay £9k per year for uni and I contribute about £5k each for living expenses. My company car tax has gone up considerably and now even my choice of a 49g co2 car is going to be taxed more so I am not going to bother with it. My buy to let investments are going to be taxed to hell and now I have to pay for the estate agents to do the vetting checks for each tenant that pitches up!
Bring back Blair - at least he was a Tory that looked after the middle income earners!
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That's a very middle class list of woes Zippy. Pat will be along shortly to tell you that she's now reduced to living in a cardboard box and can only afford a bowl of tripe once a week. :-)
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A reduction in Pat's tripe? Now that'd be something to look forward to! ;-)
(Only kidding Pat!)
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>>That's a very middle class list of woes Zippy
I know and I have slogged towards it working 60 hours plus (more like 70) a week, so I earn my money.
There are very few of us doing what I do, less than 150 and probably closer to 100 in the country.
When I started it was a low paid job at £12k and by upping skills and training the salary has increased to about £45k and up. I am lucky to now be in a management position and do better than that.
So yes, I feel annoyed when the govt takes away my hard earned money due to incompetence and policy that is used to hide other failings - e.g. we wont raise income tax so we will hit everything else we can.
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Sell the buy to let properties if they're that much of a problem. I always thought the money to be made on buy to let was in the increased value when you eventually sell them. Sort of like a pension pot I suppose.
Tell your kids to take out the full loan for fees/living - interest only starts to be applied after graduation I thought. You can help pay off the debt then... or maybe not even then.
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>>Sell the buy to let properties if they're that much of a problem. I always thought the money to be made on buy to let was in the increased value when you eventually sell them. Sort of like a pension pot I suppose.
I wouldn't have to if this lot weren't so incompetent.
We were told that by 2020 the deficit would be cleared! Now it is even bigger that the Financial Crisis and in equivalent terms the national debt is bigger than it was in the Great Depression!
National debt will be 90% of GDP, nearly £2 trillion, 10 years after being told that tough spending cuts were worth it, because within five years we would have a balanced economy!
Oh and you can expect the triple lock to be removed from pensions as its deemed not affordable but don't expect them to announce that until the first budget after the next election to give the oldies just enough time to forget what they have done before the election after that!
Oh and I have just read that the salary sacrifice schemes are to end, that's another couple of hundred a month gone! Great!
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>> We were told that by 2020 the deficit would be cleared!
We have since voted to leave the EU. You have to take that into account now surely.
>> Oh and I have just read that the salary sacrifice schemes are to end, that's another couple
>> of hundred a month gone! Great!
Not all such schemes will end. Do tell what scheme you're saving several hundred a month in tax by being part of. Presumably pension.
I sacrifice some of my salary for more holiday - so I don't pay tax/NI for the days I don't work because I don't earn any money and the business cannot make money out of me. I think that sort of salary sacrifice might remain?
There's many people who can't reduce monthly income tax by hundreds because they simply never earn enough.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 23 Nov 16 at 22:35
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>>
>>
>> We were told that by 2020 the deficit would be cleared! Now it is even
>> bigger that the Financial Crisis and in equivalent terms the national debt is bigger than
>> it was in the Great Depression!
>>
>
There is often some confused thinking over what is meant by this.
The "deficit" means the shortfall of government income in a year compared with expenditure.
But people often in the same breath go on to consider the national debt, which is completely different and hasn't a hope of being cleared, ever, unless we have a Bolshevic-style revolution and simply repudiate all debts, internal and external.
Some of the debts have been accumulated through government borrowing to invest in growth-generating infrastructure like British Leyland, Upper Clyde Shipbuilders, De Lorean, Concorde, world wars, HS2, etc, some has simply been by accident because the annual books didn't balance.
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Was that the same Blair that introduced university fees?
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>>We were told that by 2020 the deficit would be cleared!
You didn't really believe that, did you?
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Student loans were introduced by John Major's government. The policy was to introduce fees at a later point which was implemented by Tony Blair's government at £1k, they went to £3k which is sort of reasonable but £9k is outrageous given the real amount of tutor time that some students get!
The current government are proven to be liars with regards student loans. It was promised that the repayment start point of a salary of £21k would rise in line with average earnings. The government have gone back on this promise. If a bank did this they would be taken to task the regulator.
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>> Bring back Blair - at least he was a Tory that looked after the middle
>> income earners!
>>
Wow, you think you are a middle income earner!
Your income/wealth information leads me to believe you are in the top 10% (if not 5%) earners of the UK population.
BTW, your kids do not pay £9k a year. They borrow £9k a year which is repayable (or not) based on earnings after graduation. Martin Lewis explains it very well:
www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes
" the price tag of university is mostly irrelevant. What matters in practical terms is how much you have to repay – and that's a completely separate number from the total amount of tuition fees, maintenance loan and interest, because it all depends on what you would pay."
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>>They borrow £9k a year which is repayable (or not) based on earnings after graduation.
Eldest is studying medicine so very likely to be paying the loan off in full.
Youngest is studying maths so if he does well he could well be paying the full loan off.
>>Your income/wealth information leads me to believe you are in the top 10% (if not 5%) earners of the UK population.
>>Your income/wealth information leads me to believe you are in the top 10% (if not 5%) earners of the UK population.
Apparently as a single person I am just in the 90th percentile, but I am not, I am the only earner so it drops to the 70th percentile.
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>>Your income/wealth information leads me to believe you are in the top 10% (if not
>> 5%) earners of the UK population.
>>
>> Apparently as a single person I am just in the 90th percentile, but I am
>> not, I am the only earner so it drops to the 70th percentile.
>>
I didn't think it changed depending on your personal situation?
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If someone is earning enough to support two, and a choice is made for only that person to work, it oughtn't change their earning rank. I suppose it does skew the other person though, into being at the bottom something, but that's by choice not poor pay. I guess it could change something like "household disposable income" rank.
Either way, at least 69% of people would envy your position. :-)
What's the basis for these figures anyway?
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>> I didn't think it changed depending on your personal situation?
>>
I guess the first measure is income against individual incomes and the second is individual income as sole earner against household incomes including households with two incomes.
Either way you are probably not exactly skint.
BTW neither am I / are we there being 2 earners in the house (actually 3 including our daughter but her income does not count as household income in most surveys / statistical lists).
The replies & comments on this follow comments I made elsewhere, very few people in society are willing to accept less so others can have more.
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> I guess the first measure is income against individual incomes and the second is individual income as sole earner against household incomes including households with two incomes.
yes i thought as much but I don't think it's helpful. I find it confuses matters.
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>>>>They borrow £9k a year which is repayable (or not) based on earnings after graduation.
>> Eldest is studying medicine so very likely to be paying the loan off in full.
So eldest will earn plenty of money during their working lifetime and should pay back the loan.
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>> Eldest is studying medicine so very likely to be paying the loan off in full.
>> Youngest is studying maths so if he does well he could well be paying the full loan off.
There you go. You have every reason to be cheerful. Your kids are getting an excellent education which will likely put them in the top 5% of the UK population by the time they are in their middle life.
>> Apparently as a single person I am just in the 90th percentile, but I am
>> not, I am the only earner so it drops to the 70th percentile.
>>
What about your position in terms of net household wealth?
From ONS:
Total net household wealth is defined as the sum of net property wealth (the difference between the value of owned property and the amount owed on it), physical wealth (assets such as cars, art, antiques etc), net financial wealth (the value of savings and investments minus any debts), and private pension wealth.
Total net household wealth aggregated across all households in Great Britain in the period July 2012 to June 2014 was £11.1 trillion.
The largest elements of this were private pension wealth (40%) and net property wealth (35%).
45% of the £11.1 trillion was owned by the wealthiest 10% of households, while 9% of the £11.1 trillion was owned by the least wealthy 50% of households.
This figure has increased from £9.5 trillion in the period July 2010 to June 2012 and £9 trillion in the period July 2008 to June 2010 (not adjusting for inflation).
Half of all households in the period July 2012 to June 2014 had total net household wealth of £225,100 or more.
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Talking of 'buy to let', the partner of my exex ( almost 20 years now) is always harping on about his problems with tenants etc. He is 62yo, retired on a good pension aged 58 lucky beggar, and the rental income from his two properties, and his pension, is far more than I ever earned.
He is 100% focused on maintaining income, hopefully in line with or above inflation. I tell him to his face he is crackers, but in a nice way, and that he should be spending some of his net worth, around £650k he tells me, whilst he can.
With my private pension drawdown, I hoped to make it last until I was 65, but at my rate of spending ( lots of cheap foreign holidays) it will be gone by the time I'm 64. Then I'll sell my nice house, realise some tax free gains, downsize to a smartish 2 bed apt and spend that.
I don't pay any income tax at all these days, so don't think I'll be much affected by this Autumn Statement.
At the height of my earning powers, with 4 small retail shops and working 80/90 hours a week I never earned enough to pay more than standard rate tax. But I did have a lovely VW Transporter van, which I had for 10 years, until ill health backed me into a corner!
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> He is 100% focused on maintaining income, hopefully in line with or above inflation. I
>> tell him to his face he is crackers, but in a nice way, and that
>> he should be spending some of his net worth, around £650k he tells me, whilst
>> he can.
I know someone like that as well, similar age and net worth, between him and his wife they've two part time wages and three pensions coming in. They live very frugal trying to save as much as possible each month. I think the plan is to leave as much as possible to their children, who'll have it all spent in a couple of years no problem. Although they are eccentric so maybe there is no plan.
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Just in case anyone thought I was having a go at my ex ex's partner, he is a nice guy. They are well suited, and I enjoy his company, as, I hope, he does mine. They enjoyed a long weekend at my place a few weeks ago, and I am staying over at their place one evening next week...several friends invited for a pre Xmas meal.
I forgot that he has a half share in the property he lives in with my exex, no mortgage, so that adds another £225k to his net worth. They are both single children, and have no children of their own to leave money to, so I hope they have taken steps to mitigate IHT.
Their joint worth, unhindered by any loans, is into seven figures, but he still refuses to replace his old 26'' CRT TV, ( spare CRT TVs from the tip are in his garage should it ever be irreparable!)or his rusty old car, the headlining of which recently fell down and the drivers seat was reupholstered earlier this year.
Despite our differences we get along fine. I'm sure my propensity to jet off on holiday at a few days notice, at very regular intervals, or pay top dollar and fly over to stay with my CA friends at a weeks notice is anathema to him.
I've made it my goal in life to get him to buy a newish car to replace his'96 rust bucket... But then he would have nothing to repair each week!!
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Words fail me......but I will think of some shortly:)
Pat
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Anyone found any details of this higher interest bond Hammond mentioned in his statement?
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>> Anyone found any details of this higher interest bond Hammond mentioned in his statement?
>>
The interest rate won't be sent until April 2017. At the proposed rate you would make a whopping £1.45 a month more before tax than the current Tesco bond at 1.62% on the maximum £3k allowed!
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I see there's a 2% increase in insurance premium tax. That will affect most prudent people.
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>> I see there's a 2% increase in insurance premium tax. That will affect most prudent
>> people.
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A 2% increase in premiums and a 20% increase in the actual tax.
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>> I see there's a 2% increase in insurance premium tax. That will affect most prudent
>> people.
>>
For car insurance (most peoples biggest premium) it's about £8 a year.
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I can remember the introduction of IPT in the early nineties. Up till then it had always been the government view that insurance was in the public interest and should not be discouraged by taxation. The rate when it was introduced was 2.5%
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I wonder if it makes a difference? I suspect not, i doubt most people have even heard of IPT.
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>> I wonder if it makes a difference? I suspect not, i doubt most people have
>> even heard of IPT.
>>
I think for many people in this country indirect taxes are invisible. We know they are there but in most day to day transactions the price is the price inclusive of taxes, if that is affordable, OK.
IPT is the same if the total cost is less than last year or whatever, off we go.
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>> I think for many people in this country indirect taxes are invisible. We know they
>> are there but in most day to day transactions the price is the price inclusive
>> of taxes, if that is affordable, OK.
>> IPT is the same if the total cost is less than last year or whatever,
>> off we go.
>>
Hammond said "Insurance premium tax in this country is lower than in many other European countries, and half the rate of VAT."
Implication is that IPT will keep creeping up until it matches VAT.
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>> Hammond said "Insurance premium tax in this country is lower than in many other European
>> countries, and half the rate of VAT."
So blooming what?
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>> So blooming what?
>>
Lots of scope for increasing it..
This is fools' paradise time. The Chancellor's sums exclude ANY recession. Very 4=5 years we have a slowdown and every 8-10 years a recession. A bad recession will easily add £50B to annual borrowing or more.
Then when Debt >GDP the fun starts and taxes HAVE to rise a lot...
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>> So blooming what?
>>
so blooming IPT will continue to go up until equalised with VAT.
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>> >> So blooming what?
>> >>
>>
>> so blooming IPT will continue to go up until equalised with VAT.
So - VAT is an E.U. (mandated and controlled) tax, so what happens when we leave?
Purchase tax again?
A sales tax set by the devolved elements of the UK?
Last edited by: Roger. on Thu 24 Nov 16 at 17:16
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"I think for many people in this country indirect taxes are invisible."
Is that a good or a bad thing?
It could be changed
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>> "I think for many people in this country indirect taxes are invisible."
>>
>> Is that a good or a bad thing?
>>
certainly hides a multitude of sins, not personally bothered either way
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I don't think anyone has come up with a popular tax...
I don't think too many in the country would be overflowing with sympathy for Zippy's predicament.
The Govt. has failed to tackle the deficit and this current crowd seem to have abandoned it altogether. There is only one way taxes are going - clue: not down.
More and more tax reliefs and 'perks' will be phased out. I firmly believe a Govt will one day tax sole residences on selling. Recently I have been assisting an elderly widow sort out her financial affairs, resulting in the sale of her house she bought with her husband in the late 1950s. There is a huge increase in value, from about £2500 to almost £700,000 - all tax free of course. That is a very attractive pot of money I am sure the Govt. would like some of.
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>>I don't think too many in the country would be overflowing with sympathy for Zippy's predicament.
Well it means that I don't go out as much or spend as much and therefore the local economy suffers.
Austerity doesn't work. The Yanks have the right idea. They built themselves out of recession in the 1930's and realised that Europe needed similar help after WW2 and generously gave Marshall Aid.
>>There is a huge increase in value, from about £2500 to almost £700,000 - all tax free of course. That is a very attractive pot of money I am sure the Govt. would like some of.
It would kill the housing market stone dead and prevent many people from downsizing - tying up even more homes to low occupancy.
Even if we adopted the US method of a £250,000 allowance per owner (USD to GBP at 1:1) a couple would have a profit of almost £200,000 at 20% tax, that is almost £40,000! Would this be on top of the £25,000 stamp duty?
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>>
>> Austerity doesn't work. The Yanks have the right idea. They built themselves out of recession
>> in the 1930's and realised that Europe needed similar help after WW2 and generously gave
>> Marshall Aid.
Not everyone shares your enthusiasm.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan
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Depends what level the tax is set at. I am convinced it will happen one day.
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You seem to suggest the American way in the 30s was better than what we have. Not reducing the deficit in spending the money on capital projects is the same surely?
You seem to argue for an against this.
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If there is real poverty how visible is it?
I have seen more homeless people on our streets but the majority are offered rooms and food when needed.
Or do we demand more? In our street 2 to three cars per household is not uncommon.
I can't complain but I suppose I'm lucky.
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Apparently hidden in the statement is a blow to those being made redundant and asked to leave on the spot.
Employees made redundant could lose about 20% of the payout as it will be treated as pay and taxed.
The changes come in to effect in 2018.
Mean spirited or what!
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What exactly are the changes. You always were subject to tax on payments over £30,000
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Is this what you a talking about - The alignment of the treatment of NIC with tax? Both will now be applied after the £30,000 exemption.
www.ukbudget.com/newsroom-budget2016/tax-and-ni-treatment-of-termination-payments-to-be-aligned.aspx
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 7 Dec 16 at 22:10
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As I thought no change to income tax on termination payments but also now subject to NIC
Here is the actual text from the Autumn Statement.
4.10 Termination payments – As announced at Budget 2016, from April 2018 termination payments over £30,000, which are subject to income tax, will also be subject to employer NICs. Following a technical consultation, tax will only be applied to the equivalent of an employee’s basic pay if their notice is not worked, making it simpler to apply the new rules. The government will monitor this change and address any further manipulation. The first £30,000 of a termination payment will remain exempt from income tax and National Insurance.
Your original source was obviously a bit muddled.
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But that says it is employer NIC. And then if this is about payment in lieu of notice that was always taxed but I can see why it ought to have NI taken too.
Best get made redundant before April 2018 I guess.
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Chancellor's Autumn Statement. - zippy
