The BBC, and other sites obviously, are covering today's "special report" from the IPCC.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45775309
It suggests we have almost no time left to do very major things, or it all gets pretty unpleasant.
Anyway, in terms of what "ordinary people" should be doing, here are their seven suggestions.
With some effort I might be able to do a little of 1. 2 & 6 are not affordable. 3 & 4 are irrelevant to me. 5 I do as far as possible. 7 seems a bit meaningless.
So hanging out my washing seems as good a contribution as I can make. How about you?
1) buy less meat, milk, cheese and butter and more locally sourced seasonal food - and throw less of it away
2) drive electric cars but walk or cycle short distances
3) take trains and buses instead of planes
4) use videoconferencing instead of business travel
5) use a washing line instead of a tumble dryer
6) insulate homes
7) demand low carbon in every consumer product
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Looks like a series of simplistic platitudes which don't really approach the breadth of any of the issues.
1 pushes "veggie" agenda but ignores balance of farming as part of environment or what is actually healthy eating.
2 ignores cost of recycling old vehicles, manufacturing new ones, transporting goods etc
3 ignores reality of where people need to go for commuting or any other kind of real journey
4 Ignores business efficiency, who thinks people really want to travel hundreds of miles to meetings or other work travel, if videoconferencing was a valid alternative we would all do it, most of us do it where appropriate anyway.
5 Makes sense but ignores all the other energy use in the home
6 Makes sense but mainly done now anyway
7 what is really low carbon and what effect will it have on society, ie we ban aircraft because of pollution & carbon use (extreme example) and what happens to tourism workers and the countries which depend or tourists to make a living
Also all pretty meaning less for the UK to do things unilaterally, convince the huge polluters and carbon users round the world before you can hope to make any real difference
... rant over
Last edited by: commerdriver on Mon 8 Oct 18 at 15:57
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Commerdriver's points may include things that needs to be considered but none seems valid as a refutation.
e.g. we still need to reduce carbon emissions whether or not it removes jobs in the tourism industry.
Some are just wrong. There is far too much unnecessary "business" travel. I've done plenty myself, where it would have been difficult to get out of it but frankly it was unnecessary for the purpose of getting a job done.
Often it's a case of the senior person involved demanding that everybody comes to his or her location. The last big company I worked for equipped meeting rooms for video conferencing between locations but once the novelty wore off nobody used them.
Unfortunately it doesn't look doable, especially while PotUS does not (seem to) accept that climate change has anything to do with human behaviour, the China and Russia are ruled by corrupt self serving regimes, vested interests everywhere resist, and the main aspiration of countless millions in developing countries is to have just as many cars, consumer goods and foreign holidays as Americans and Western Europeans.
Even supposing our politicians are not lazy, corrupt or incompetent, the populations of the large democracies don't seem minded to vote for green policies.
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>> Commerdriver's points may include things that needs to be considered but none seems valid as
>> a refutation.
>>
Wasn't intended to be a refutation, more a brain dump response to day there are a million wider issues on each of these points, they are not black /white answers.
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>> >> Commerdriver's points may include things that needs to be considered but none seems valid
>> as
>> >> a refutation.
>> >>
>> Wasn't intended to be a refutation, more a brain dump response to day there are
>> a million wider issues on each of these points, they are not black /white answers.
I apologise for wrongly inferring your meaning.
The list you reproduced is headlines and only addresses consumer action. None of it seems ridiculous to me. Of course the implications would take up many times the space and the possible solutions many times more.
Perhaps foolishly I take it on trust that there are many thousands of pages of work behind this message.
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>> 1) buy less meat, milk, cheese and butter and more locally sourced seasonal food -
>> and throw less of it away
my meat milk and cheese is localy sourced and seasonal.
On the whole, that there will be a global problem if things dont change is assured, but this is a crap message to galvanise a fix.
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>> On the whole, that there will be a global problem if things dont change is
>> assured, but this is a crap message to galvanise a fix.
Might be an unappealing marketing message but the point is that there isn't enough land on earth for everybody to eat the amount of meat and dairy that we do.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 9 Oct 18 at 01:55
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So how will us eating less meat mean anything to people where there is "not enough land"
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>> So how will us eating less meat mean anything to people where there is "not> enough land"
>>
It's more along the lines that animals, especially cattle, take a lot of crops to feed. If we eat less then there's more crops for everyone.
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>> It's more along the lines that animals, especially cattle, take a lot of crops to
>> feed. If we eat less then there's more crops for everyone.
Cattle provide much more usefulness and nutrition than the crops grown on the land could.
And how about sheep, often occupying and grazing on non arable land.
Sorry, but somehow the vegan message got sneaked in there and devalued the whole message, which should be about the use of fossil fuel. Little mention of that
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Oct 18 at 09:36
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Whilst cattle may be kept on land not suitable for growing crops most are intensively reared on feed stuff which s grown on good arable land. Many cattle never see a blade of grass.
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>> Whilst cattle may be kept on land not suitable for growing crops most are intensively
>> reared on feed stuff which s grown on good arable land. Many cattle never see
>> a blade of grass.
>>
Its a pity cows are herbivore, we could feed them on ground up vegans
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>> Its a pity cows are herbivore, we could feed them on ground up vegans
We tried feeding them on ground up sheep and ended up with BSE!!
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>> >> Its a pity cows are herbivore, we could feed them on ground up vegans
>>
>> We tried feeding them on ground up sheep and ended up with BSE!!
I suppose vegans do appear to be mentally deranged, so I accept that may be an unacceptable risk.
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Please excuse my ignorance of this subject, (I have no climate change or global warming qualifications) but if cattle are such a big problem why didn't the millions upon millions of Buffaloes that roamed the American plains for thousands of years not a problem?
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>> Please excuse my ignorance of this subject, (I have no climate change or global warming
>> qualifications) but if cattle are such a big problem why didn't the millions upon millions
>> of Buffaloes that roamed the American plains for thousands of years not a problem?
>>
I would imagine there's a great deal more cattle on the planet now than buffaloes in NAmerica even a few thousand years ago.
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It's not the cattle as such that are the problem for the environment at least. It's the production of feedstuffon an intensive basis on a huge scale. Growing grain to feed to feed to cattle is massively less efficient than growing grain to consume directly.
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>> Please excuse my ignorance of this subject, (I have no climate change or global warming
>> qualifications) but if cattle are such a big problem why didn't the millions upon millions
>> of Buffaloes that roamed the American plains for thousands of years not a problem?
Because there were hardly any people.
Viewed as just another animal, it's people that are the problem but I think the scientists are not yet actively considering solutions that involve culling humans. When they do, I suppose they will start with the oldies.
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>>.... When they do, I suppose they will start with the oldies.
>>
....well, the non-scientist ones, anyway.....
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>> >>.... When they do, I suppose they will start with the oldies.
>> >>
>>
>> ....well, the non-scientist ones, anyway.....
>>
Don't worry, the next big war or natural disaster will thin us out. It might be climate change.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 9 Oct 18 at 13:41
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>> So how will us eating less meat mean anything to people where there is "not
>> enough land"
I'm not going to write you an essay, I'm sure you know fine well what lies behind it.
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>> I'm not going to write you an essay, I'm sure you know fine well what
>> lies behind it.
>>
I do, and I think Zero summed it up above, the veggie / vegan bit is not really anything to do with climate change. As Z said, many kinds of meat are produced using land which is not suitable for crop growing anyway.
The amount of waste, unnecessary single use of plastics and similar materials, unnecessary renewal of household and personal electronics, and the demand for fruit and vegetables all year round on demand, are just a few examples of far more serious issues that would be more effective for individuals in a tiny country to make a difference
Most of us are aware of the climate change situation and it is not simple, lets not pretend that it is, every action to be more environmentally sensible has consequences.
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Ive been to the Austrian Alps a few times now and in Spring and early summer the aroma of cattle manure is quite noticeable as it is spread on the fields. This is produced by the long hard winter where cattle are kept indoors for an extended period and cattle that remain indoors due to intensive farming.
Good for the soil you might think. However there is so much that it is poisoning the soil and getting into the water courses.
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And again another article assuming the only benefit of cattle is red meat. Yes if the world is to survive it should go vegan. The population would be slashed in decades. We are not genetically herbivores and we would be drowning in "saved" animals.
If I were dictator, all vegans would be turned into fertiliser.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Oct 18 at 10:44
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A rediculous over reaction. What is needed is a reduction in the amount of red meat consumed rather than its elimination from our diet. The price of beef perhaps need to reflect the cost to the environment of its production and red meat needs to be seen as an element of our diet rather than a major constituent. At the moment it is the exact opposite with farmers being subsidised for its production.
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>> The price of beef perhaps need
>> to reflect the cost to the environment of its production
It does, have you seen the price of steak in the supermarket?
>>and red meat needs to
>> be seen as an element of our diet rather than a major constituent.
No-one eats red meat every day its not a major constituent.
>>At the
>> moment it is the exact opposite
Utterly ridiculous over estimation, clearly not the case due to price, thats the fakest piece of fake news I have read since trumps last tweet.
>>with farmers being subsidised for its production.
Of milk, for cheese butter, dairy stuff, and also subsidised for growing certain crops, or even subsidised for not growing stuff,
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I didn't say that people eat red meat every day although some undoubtedly do. The point is that the current level of consumption is greater than the global environment can bear.
The current cost of beef, does not include the cost that its production has on the environment.
It is the case that we are subsidising a product that is environmentally harmfull, perhaps more so than cars
.
That we subsidise other products doesn't have any bearing on the argument.
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You did say red meat is a major constituent of our diet, and I maintain due to its cost, its not.
>> The current cost of beef, does not include the cost that its production has on
>> the environment.
Says Prof Gidon Eshel, who seems to be a major mouth piece for veganism, so its not just cows he has a down on.
With people like that spouting off, its no wonder Trump can get away with his "climate change is a myth" attitude, and there is the real damage.
NOTHING includes the cost on the environment, and to blame the red meat industry as the major cause of climate change is a: a fallacy and b: harmful to the real message.
As pat would say, end of.
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>>
>>
>> NOTHING includes the cost on the environment,
>>
Imagine that back at the end of the feudal period, when peasants were being freed from service to their overlords, working their own land, and producing a small surplus for sale to townspeople, we had had a Referendum:
"Are you in favour of an agricultural and industrial revolution?"
All this could have been avoided. The environmentalists did warn us, but people are so consumerist and short-sighted.
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>>Nobody eats red meat every day.
Er, I am certain I do; three times a day most days. Even if sometimes there is pheasant or partridge or grouse for dinner, which is I think not red meat, or fish, there is always beef or pork for breakfast and almost certainly lunch. Lamb chops for breakfast are an absolute treat.
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>> three times a day most days
Good lad, doing your bit for Britain by not planning to take too much pension money :-)
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What beef products do you have for breakfast?
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>> What beef products do you have for breakfast?
He was referring to red meat, hence the lamb chops.
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Are lamb chops red meat?
I am no great fan of red meat, but one way or another I suspect I probably eat red meat 6 out of 7 days. I'm including burgers, curries, chillis and all that sort of stuff.
As has been said, it's the animal feed which is the burden, rather than the animal itself.
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Isn't there also an issue of deforestation in the Amazon to clear land to rear cattle? So we lose the trees able to absorb some of the CO2.
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>>Isn't there also an issue of deforestation in the Amazon to clear land to rear cattle?
I used to work in [actually *in*] the Amazon. In my case, the Brazilian Amazon.
Before I worked there my knowledge of the Amazon came mostly from Biggles and the Cruise of the Condor. Don't laugh, it's absolutely true.
A strange place. Part of it is so foreign and truly impressive that I could not possibly explain it to you. And some of it looks like moonscape. where miles and miles have simply been brutally removed.
Where the river was once impassable because of over hanging growth from the banks, it is now the only sign of life running across an utterly barren landscape. It is, I assure you, a very depressing sight. Enough to make you weep. Genuinely.
In different countries the forest is cleared for different motivations.
rainforests.mongabay.com/amazon/amazon_destruction.html
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Blimey, I love my red meat but don't eat anywhere near as much as you lot. I haven't had any red meat since at least last Thursday.
Lot of pork chicken and fish tho.
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>>
>> >> What beef products do you have for breakfast?
>>
>> He was referring to red meat, hence the lamb chops.
>>
>>
>>
'There is always beef or pork for breakfast'
I just wondered what they were.
I've had beef sausages for breakfast in Turkey and had steak in the early hours in Vegas, but I don't think anything like in the UK.
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>> What beef products do you have for breakfast?
Bressaola. Left-over casserole. Cold roast beef.
>>Do my bit for the pension
Really? Sourdough rye toast with roast beef has got to be a lot healthier than any breakfast cereal. I stayed the other month in an airbnb (the sort that provides a modicum of breakfast) and chose the bran flakes on the grounds they must be the healthiest. Haven't had that sort of thing in years and couldn't believe how sweet they tasted. Seemingly 20% pure sugar: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/shopping-and-consumer-news/11373080/The-10-most-sugary-breakfast-cereals.html
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>>Sourdough rye toast with roast beef has got to be a lot healthier than any breakfast cereal
Bread typically has 3-4% sugar so your 2 medium slices of rye have 4g of sugar, compared to 6g in 30g of flakes.
Of course if you then sprinkle sugar over the flakes and add in the extra sugar (lactose) in the milk (5g per 100ml)....
But then the various starches in both the bread and cereal get turned into sugar anyway (with 100g of bread easily beating the 30g of flakes)
Not much red meat in the flakes though. And the flakes help you poop I guess.
While not exactly representative of typical UK populations but these studies are interesting with respect to how different lifestyle choices are linked to different outcomes.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_Health_Studies
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 9 Oct 18 at 18:39
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Sugar content of flour is 0.3g per 100g. Where are your other 2.7g coming from? Sourdough is supposed to be better for you on account of the fermentation process (there does seem to be some scientific basis for this - but then crazy nutritionalists extrapolate this and also recommend Kombucha which seems to be an excuse for drinking home-made hooch for breakfast).
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>>Where are your other 2.7g coming from?
Sugar can be added to bread, and the fermentation process requires some of the starch (which flour dough is full of) to be converted to sugar via the enzyme amylase.
I'm sure many will remember the fairly disgusting chemistry experiment where you chew a piece of bread for a minute them leave it for half an hour, to discover it then tastes sweet (due to salivary amylase acting on the starch). Yum.
Rye flour also typically has 3 times the sugar content of wholemeal (ie ~1g per 100g) to start with.
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>> >> What beef products do you have for breakfast?
>>
>> Bressaola. Left-over casserole. Cold roast beef.
You live and learn, casserole for breakfast.
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I suppose beef casserole for breakfast just seems odd . Whatever you get used to I suppose
I enjoy a Kipper or smoked haddock on Sunday.
One man's meat is another man's poisson I guess
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Cold, on toast, perhaps with a gherkin. Exactly the same as terrine. Particularly if there's enough in it to make it set solid when cold.
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>> there is always beef or pork for breakfast
He said there was always beef or pork for breakfast.
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1. I do eat less meat than a year ago but we do use quite a bit of milk. Food is supermarket bought I do keep an eye on where it comes from, but more by country rather than county.
2. I walk to work. Electric car a non starter for me. Although I would like one.
3&4 not really relevant.
5. Already do.
6. Not in my power to sort.
7. Not sure what it means in practical terms.
>>
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>>
>> 7. Not sure what it means in practical terms.
>> >>
>>
I'm not sure what "low carbon" means in any terms.
What it doesn't seem to mean is that the product you are buying has less of the element carbon in its construction. It appears to be refering to the total non-sustainable energy consumed in all the stages of making the product and delivering it to your home.
Is there a figure on the label providing a number that includes all these stages, and which I can then compare with other similar products?
How do I know what represents a "good" carbon content when buying a jumper, a tin of soup, a block of concrete, or a rail ticket?
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Rampant consumerism is fueled by wealth. In other words generally we afford the latest tecnoogy and updated products (I didn't say 'can afford').
You only have to go to the tip and see the amount of seemingly perfectly good items thrown away.
One of the big issues is longevity of products and the costs associated with maintaining and repairing domestic broken items. For example the washing machine.
4 or 5 year old machine is generally not viable to repair at maybe £100? A new one comes with a warranty. In reality there is little wrong with the old one with the potential to double its life.
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>> Rampant consumerism is fueled by wealth. In other words generally we afford the latest tecnoogy
>> and updated products (I didn't say 'can afford'*).
>> You only have to go to the tip and see the amount of seemingly perfectly
>> good items thrown away.
Its a direct product of the cost/technology cycle that enables you to afford* (there I used the afford word) it in the first place. Stuff is built to a price, and making stuff fixable bungs up that price enormously, to the level where it wouldn't be bought in the first place.
Its chicken and egg, If stuff wasn't cheap we wouldn't be on here using the cheap stuff to talk about it.
I dont think wealth drives it either. If that were the case, all those economic migrants coming ashore in Europe with high end mobiles and paid for air time would ne classed as "wealthy"
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Oct 18 at 10:52
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>>Rampant consumerism is fueled by wealth.
DT today has a photo of a pumpkin farm. More than 10M pumpkins grown each year in the UK with the vast majority designed to be carved into lanterns....
A suggested alternative...yes polystyrene
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Was turnips nicked from the farmer's field when I was a lad.
And an utter pig to carve they were too.
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I like turnips. Especially with mince. I am however, something of a lone voice in our household on the turnip front. Partial to a carrot too, but again, it's a losing battle. Fortunately, I do still have allies re mushrooms, spinach and cabbage, but the turnip debacle is quite wearing.
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Have you tried turnip and carrot mashed together ??
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Of course, and with potato, all of which are delightful, to me anyway, but it all gets a very poor reception from other residents. I quite like stirring fried onions into mashed potatoes too, once again to howls of domestic derision, but I promise anyone who dares to try it will have a culinary epiphany.
Edit - especially if you then smother the result in brown sauce...
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Tue 9 Oct 18 at 14:04
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Swede, and or Turnip is fine spirallised and served with shredded coconut.
Also good cubed and added to a veg curry
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>> Also good cubed and added to a veg curry
There's a vegetarian Indian restaurant in Brighton I go to sometimes. Buffet style, very cheap but very good. Not that I'm a vegetarian, but I do like vegetarian food now and then.
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I'm in Brighton in a few weeks time for a few days, and this sounds good. What's it called pls? I've found Manjus or Bombay Aloo.
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Second one. Bit scruffy but friendly. Full of hippies usually.
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Suits me, close to the hotel too! :-)
SWMBO would love a veggie buffet, I can live without lamb jalfrezi for once I suppose... :-)
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Not the Premier Inn I hope? That one, unusually for that chain, was pretty much bogging when I had a couple of nights in it this summer. What's more, a seagull with what must have been an avian equivalent of gastric flu, had apparently spent the night roosting on top of my car.
Only saving grace was the Greggs a few yards away for breakfast. Admittedly not a great breakfast, but cheap enough to cheer my Calvinist genes.
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Been to the Bombay place tonight, really nice. Cheap too! Thanks for the suggestion.
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Yes, much as it pains me to admit it, some vegetarian food is really nice !
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We had vegetarian food on Saturday night - chips, mushrooms, peas and tomatoes.
Went down well with our Aberdeen Angus sirloin steaks.
:)
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I'm no veggie but I have to admit we went back again last night!!
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Try onions, red if preferred, sautéed in Balsamic vinegar and a little sugar. A superb chutney to mix with your assorted veggies. It is a bit of a Marmite thing, you will either become a kitchen God or be banished forever. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 9 Oct 18 at 15:58
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With you on all things mashed, particularly with tripe liver and lights (wrapped in a case).
Potato mashed with apples, Runfer?
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When in Scotland I found tha they referred to what I call a Swede as a turnip. Do you mean the orange root which I love mashed and served with roast beef or do you mean the creamy coloured turnip with the purple top that I use in stews and casseroles.?
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>> When in Scotland I found tha they referred to what I call a Swede as
>> a turnip. Do you mean the orange root which I love mashed and served with
>> roast beef .
Roast beef is banned on here, its ecological footprint is too large
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>> Roast beef is banned on here, its ecological footprint is too large
>>
I'm OK there is a Buffalo farm nearby. I saw a few Emus there last time I passed by.
www.thebuffalofarm.co.uk
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 9 Oct 18 at 16:02
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>>www.thebuffalofarm.co.uk
Looks fairly reasonable price-wise compared to www.donaldrussell.com/
Don't eat as much meat since the missus went pescetarian 2 or 3 years ago, but will be having steak at our practice Xmas night out at www.champany.com/
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 9 Oct 18 at 16:16
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>> >> Roast beef is banned on here, its ecological footprint is too large
>> >>
>>
>> I'm OK there is a Buffalo farm nearby. I saw a few Emus there last
>> time I passed by.
>>
>> www.thebuffalofarm.co.uk
>>
They would be Water Buffalo, a domesticated species from Asia and not the American Buffalo or Bison that roamed the American prairies.
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>>
>> They would be Water Buffalo, a domesticated species from Asia and not the American Buffalo
>> or Bison that roamed the American prairies.
>>
These look like the real thing:
exploringnorthwales.blogspot.com/2014/03/where-buffalo-roam.html
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Yes, they are Bison.
The Buffaloes on ON’s Buffalo Farm are Water Buffalo.
goo.gl/images/CKARhc
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Yeah, I wonder where the geographical line is where turnips become swedes? Definitely turnips in Scotland, and tangentially, I wonder if it's the same place where a scone ( which of course, when properly pronounced, rhymes with "gone" rather than "stone" ) gets interfered with?
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en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnip
what do you call this?
How do you tell them apart, yellow turnip and white turnip?
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>> en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnip
>>
>> what do you call this?
>>
>>
>> How do you tell them apart, yellow turnip and white turnip?
Turnips, in Yorkshire anyway. Swedes are the yellow things that generally seem to be larger, but that might just be a function of how long they are left in the ground.
Down here in Herts they haven't a clue, but Tesco call the white ones turnips. I always put them in my stews.
Swedes we boil and mash up with carrots.
Once - 'globalisation' I expect - we came across a recipe that called for rutabaga. This we took to be swede.
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Rutabaga is indeed Swede. The major constituent of Branston pickle.
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Me too, my question was to RDH or anyone else Scottish really.
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I don't think we knew what swedes were, they were all turnips, kept it simple I suppose. Certainly never knowingly came across rutabaga. That sounds more like some ancient form of martial art than something you'd eat. As in "he's a black belt in Rutabaga y'know..."
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So if English Swedes are turnips in Scotland what do you call the thing we call turnips?
,
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They're all turnips. More or less.
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When I was a kid we were told we had just a short time to save the planet, so excuse me if I don't run indoors screaming as after 30 years of living in apparent imminent threat of the apocalypse, it is just white noise at this point.
There are certainly many moves we can make to reduce our impact but the rhetoric from people pushing the agenda is so hyperbolic that I suspect it does more harm than good to their cause.
I have made some moves - I am a hybrid car convert, I eat little meat, keep the house at 15c in the winter and have never owned a tumble dryer, but I did these for reasons of common sense, rather than impending disaster.
Maybe if they framed their campaigns with a more practical tone, such as the campaigning regarding plastic pollution, they might find more success cutting through.
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15c? No Mrs Stuu then?
Mrs Aston shivers at even low 20's.
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We have red meat (usually steak) about once a month and a bottle of red wine as a monthly treat to go with it. We never eat processed meats such as bacon, sausages, ham etc.
Normally we eat fish or chicken and probably two meals a week are vegetarian.
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>> We never eat processed meats such
>> as bacon,
A pig is processed?
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>> Into bacon and ham.
Not always, it can just be sliced pig,
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That's pork.
Commercial bacon is sliced pig that is processed by curing.
Though on googling it seems there are now nitrite free varieties, and the nitrites are probably the carcinogenic bit.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 9 Oct 18 at 20:11
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>> That's pork.
>>
>> Commercial bacon is sliced pig that is processed by curing.
>>
>> Though on googling it seems there are now nitrite free varieties, and the nitrites are
>> probably the carcinogenic bit.
Air dried
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>>Air dried
Presumably with salt rub +/- sugar to kill the bugs?
Doesn't it just end up like parma ham or does it depend on which bit of pig they use?
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Parma ham is a different part of the pig?
Ok Ok I accept that salting, washing and air drying is a process, but its not an extensive process like sausage
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Air dried doesn’t equate to nitrite free. In fact most air dried and indeed wet cured bacon has nitrite added. You can make bacon without nitrite ,which is a preservative, so it will go off quickly unless kept refrigerated.
Whether nitrite is a problem is debatable. Celery contains a lot of nitrite but nobody had declared it unhealthy (yet).
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Cattle are supposed to be the biggest producer of Methane gas, which is one of the major polluters of the atmosphere, so, if everybody ate more red meat Farmers would struggle to breed them fast enough to satisfy demand and the number of cattle would decrease thereby helping to save the planet. However, the only true way to save the planet (as mentioned) would be to decrease the human population, Mother Nature ties to help us out here with natural disasters, but we (in our wisdom) try to thwart her at every turn by offering aidmedical supplies etc, and saving a good many of her "culled candidates". We are the masters of our own destruction, nothing they initiate to cure the problem is not going to make any difference in the end because we are not willing to change fast enough, lets just carry on the way we are and get it over and done with!
;-))
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Of course we are the masters of our own peril.
Like lemmings we carry on until. it is too late.According to Master Trump it is all a hoax and conspiracy.He knows about panties.
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Well if today is climate change, bring it on. Just returned from a glorious hot sunny day at the beach with Mrs Z, Z dog, pub lunch, pint of beer, and an ice cream.
Its kind of what I assumed retirement would be like.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 10 Oct 18 at 17:22
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It's been nice and warm here today - shame I've had to work. Not as nice as Greece was last week of course but it would have been nice to go for a walk.
The weather the next few days doesn't look so good though does it.
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>> The weather the next few days doesn't look so good though does it.
Not bad depends where you are, I have a dog show in the fens this weekend, staying up there for that one, weather looks quite good for the Saturday.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 10 Oct 18 at 18:10
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>>According to Master Trump it is all a hoax and conspiracy.He knows about panties.
Who on earth frownied that?
Probably the most concise and accurate political assessment of all time.
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> Who on earth frownied that?
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some trump supporter i would think.
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I didn't know we had anybody quite that dumb.
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As I understand it the world's climate has been changing ever since the place was formed.
Most of it was before man was the dominant species, too.
Climate change alarmists mostly rely for their income on producing these dire warnings.
Climate is changing: climate always has changed.
Get over it and accept that nothing ever stays the same for ever.
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+1 One super volcano eruption (Yosemite for example) could wipe most of us out.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 10 Oct 18 at 18:21
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I'm not sure I quote understand that Roger, it's perfectly possible for both to be true. The climate changed in the past but we can be affecting it now.
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>>it's perfectly possible for both to be true. The climate changed in the past but we can be affecting it now.
Indeed. Bloke on the wireless this week explained how they've drilled a mile down into the ice (core sample) in the arctic (or the other one) which shows how CO2 (etc. etc.) levels have changed over the last 500,000 years and that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere now is the highest concentration in human history.
I used to be a 'denier' but not any more.
www.climatecentral.org/news/the-last-time-co2-was-this-high-humans-didnt-exist-15938
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Climate warning - commerdriver
