Non-motoring > Electric bikes Miscellaneous
Thread Author: MD Replies: 62

 Electric bikes - MD
Has anyone got one?
 Electric bikes - helicopter
Yes...
Made by Kwikfold.

Bought second hand 2 months ago for half new price .Only had 240 kms on the clock.

Good fun bit of kit which I use to pop into town and ride in the local St Leonards forest and on the Downs Link .Gives 5 levels of assistance to my 71 year olds legs.

Fits easily into the CR-V when I head down to stay with my lady friend in Eastbourne. Weight is the only drawback ,around 22kgs.
Speed is limited but indicated a top speed of 30 km/hr.

Battery lockable and removeable for charging off the bike.
Last edited by: helicopter on Sun 27 Sep 20 at 20:58
 Electric bikes - Bromptonaut
IIRC there are a couple of regulars with electric cycles.

Not my thing just yet but in another ten years......
 Electric bikes - Duncan
>> Has anyone got one?
>>

I have an Oxygen CB Citymate (or something like that). I bought it from

www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/

Who are in Bodiam on the road to Hastings. They sell loads of different models. I have had mine nearly five years and - touch wood.....
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
...I've got two; does that count? ;-)
 Electric bikes - MD
OOOh! get you. OK. What have you got and your thoughts please.
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
I'm riding in Grizedale Forest on one of them at the moment. I'll put some thoughts together later, though the current choice makes things rather more difficult than when the first one was bought nine years ago, and the then restricted offerings rather concentrated the mind.
 Electric bikes - Runfer D'Hills
Have to say, I'm pretty impressed. I don't think I could type while riding a bike.
;-)
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
Built in neural/text interface - that's ebikes for you.

...and no points on your licence. ;-)
 Electric bikes - Runfer D'Hills
Once got a shirt from FatFace, but it wasn't neurotic...

Sometimes I am in awe of clever people.

;-)
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
>> Once got a shirt from FatFace....
>>

Is that the same concept as having to shop in "Big and Tall".... ?
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Tue 29 Sep 20 at 14:24
 Electric bikes - Runfer D'Hills
I think it's probably best if you don't try to understand. It would have about as much future as you trying to explain to me about how many pterodactyls, or whatever they are called, are on your hard drive and how exciting it was that there were lots of them.
;-)
 Electric bikes - Zero
>> Built in neural/text interface

Its in the saddle, you know that means he is talking s.....
 Electric bikes - Runfer D'Hills
Well, he's not replied, so he may have fallen off while trying to be too clever by half...
;-)
 Electric bikes - Ambo
Saw one yesterday, happily driven right in the middle of heavy traffic. No licence, no plates, no insurance, no brains.
 Electric bikes - No FM2R
>>happily driven right in the middle of heavy traffic. No licence, no plates, no insurance, no brains.

Presumably the criteria for the no brains judgement is more than just that he was happy.

Was it just simply that he was in heavy traffic? In which case do you have a view on what density of traffic should be the cut off? Or was he riding badly in some way?

Regarding no licence, no plates and no insurance, are you saying that he was breaking the law or that the country's laws are his fault?

Or did it all just come down to the fact that you don't like it and therefore think he shouldn't be doing it?
 Electric bikes - Bromptonaut
>> Saw one yesterday, happily driven right in the middle of heavy traffic. No licence, no
>> plates, no insurance, no brains.

Was that an e-bike or a scooter?
 Electric bikes - Bromptonaut
If it's a proper e-bike wìth a legal tòp speed etc then it's subject to the same principles as pedal bike.

I've no qualms about riding the Brompton in traffic; integrating yourself with everything else is exactly the way to tackle Trafalgar Square or Marble Arch. London is easy because the traffic is slow enough to allow that in safety and drivers expect it. More of an issue in Northampton....
 Electric bikes - No FM2R
Quite.

I'd rather see every ICE banned from city centres and them restricted to electric and/or pedal power.

Or perhaps just a substantial 'congestion' charge everywhere.
 Electric bikes - Runfer D'Hills
Come the day I can't get up a mountain using leg and lung power, I'll get one. Until then, I'll hold off. Part of the reward for me anyway, of a fast, exciting descent is in knowing I conquered the climb first to get it. But, if/when the puff and the shove get too hard, I'll be on an electric bike.
 Electric bikes - No FM2R
>>Come the day I can't get up a mountain using leg and lung power, I'll get one. Until then, I'll hold off.

I think they're different things, it's not an either-or.

Your hill / rock / mountain climbing/falling-off is nothing to do with transport. It is hard work, strenuous exercise and, no doubt, exhilarating. And I agree, I can quite see why you'd want to do that as long as possible and as long as you're in one piece.

An e-bike is surely mostly transport, though perhaps more convenient or more pleasant at times than a car.

I love my e-Scooter, but I still have both a bicycle and a car as well. There's little overlap.
 Electric bikes - zippy
I love the principle of electric scooter or cycle for low load last mile or two transport. Makes so much sense.

Teach the users to use them safely.
 Electric bikes - CGNorwich
Why do we need electric scooters for short distances? We are all equipped with legs. Walking always seems to be overlooked as a vialbe means of transport. if you cant walk a mile you are unlikely to be able to use a scooter. Fun they may be but they dont solve any transport problems
 Electric bikes - Bromptonaut
>> Why do we need electric scooters for short distances? We are all equipped with legs.
>> Walking always seems to be overlooked as a vialbe means of transport. if you cant
>> walk a mile you are unlikely to be able to use a scooter. Fun they
>> may be but they dont solve any transport problems

At the time I bought my first Brompton in 1999 the journey between Euston and my then office in Sardinia Street was just over a mile - say 25 minutes by Shanks's pony. On the bike I could leave the office @ 16:30 and (just) get the 16:40 to Milton Keynes.

That's a worthwhile difference.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 29 Sep 20 at 18:30
 Electric bikes - No FM2R
>> if you cant walk a mile you are unlikely to be able to use a scooter.

Not sure I follow that. A friend of mine has a bad leg. It functions but a couple of hundred yards is about it. Standing on a scooter gives much less grief, although not none.

>>Fun they may be but they dont solve any transport problems

They do for me, I'd be catching a lot of taxis or be doing a lot of re parking otherwise.

But you're right, they are fun.
 Electric bikes - No FM2R
I often have mine in the boot for just that approach. Drive to the area I want to be bit far enough out to find street/free parking and get out the scooter.

Mine also folds. Not that you'd want to carry it everywhere but it's ok to go into a bar / office / shop.
 Electric bikes - CGNorwich
>> I often have mine in the boot for just that approach. Drive to the area
>> I want to be bit far enough out to find street/free parking and get out
>> the scooter.
>>
Out of interest if you didn’t have the scooter would you do the same on foot? How far would you be prepared to walk to your destination from your parked car?
 Electric bikes - Runfer D'Hills
For many years I had occasion to be in the West End of London fairly regularly. Living in the North West of England that could prove tricky and expensive to cope with.

Train fares at any kind of useful time were, and are prohibitively expensive, but driving in takes so much more time due to traffic, and parking/con charges etc are also not cheap.

I found the solution for me ( if I didn't need a lot of kit with me ) was to drive as far as Edgware, park at a reasonable price and then cycle in the rest of the way.

That was always on a "normal" bike but I can see the attraction of electrical assistance for that sort of use.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 30 Sep 20 at 09:35
 Electric bikes - No FM2R
>> Out of interest if you didn’t have the scooter would you do the same on
>> foot? How far would you be prepared to walk to your destination from your parked
>> car?

From unpressured preference the scooter is typically an alternative to the car, not an alternative to walking.

When I do choose the scooter over walking it's usually a matter of time, not distance or effort.

I often park in a street which is about 2 miles or so from my usual "centre of activity" and about 3 miles from my home. Mostly because I have an apartment there and I didn't rent out the parking space so it's always both free and available. I typically can have various dealings in many different places zig-zagging all over that area, though rarely between places much more than a mile or two apart.

And on top of time is that this is a hot country, and I really can't arrive in places all sweaty; which I would be if I hurried on foot.

If I didn't have the scooter, which I didn't until a year or so ago, then usually taxis when I'm busy or on a schedule.

Socially I walk a lot and would never drive for a journey of less than a mile or two. I usually walk to a little strip mall, for example, which is about 2 miles away, probably two or three times a week. -> Burger King, Starbucks, a small bar I like, my bank and the Pharmacy - which pretty much sums up a lot of my weekday spare time.
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
Posting on a phone for a few days doesn't make this easy, but here goes (in installments).
There are some key decisions, mainly around type of riding, frequency of use, and budget. Combinations of these will drive you in different directions.
Almost 9 years ago I bought two ebikes for SWMBO and myself. It was largely driven by a desire to explore more easily, and at a greater distance from the motorhome. Budget was not a great constraint, but the desire for overall range, and a couple of good days riding potentially without charging was.
In those days, ebikes were niche with limited choice. (Things are very different now) I test rode a number with largeish batteries and various drive systems, front hub, rear hub and crank drive. The latter stood out (by a mile) as the most balanced and natural, and we ended up with two Kalkhoff bikes with the same crank drive and 540wh batteries (the highest capacity then available, and competitive even now) but very different frames.
Both these are still in use, have lasted really well (they are built like the proverbial brick shipyard) and the batteries are showing no sign of dropping off (both still register between 80-100% of original capacity even now).
In normal mixed riding they'll offer in excess of 70 miles between recharges, (though I am no lightweight, and carry panniers, I'm sparing on assistance. SWMBO, at half the load, could manage 100 mile range on a good day).
I now have a second bike, driven largely by two factors; the Kalkhoff is a great road and smooth track bike, but suffers a bit from narrow rims for rougher stuff, it is also undergeared for me. (the latter isn't always easy to change on an ebike, given the more complex drivetrain and the software being programmed for the original gearing). SWMBOs bike had smaller wheels and wider rims from scratch, and the gearing suits her, so she elected to stick with it.
So, the new one was driven by previous experience, and is a Haibike, Yamaha crank drive unit with more off-road geometry, wider rims, wider gearing and a 500wh battery.
Today's ride was a fairly challenging on and off road affair, with relentless gradients (it's the Lake District after all). Just over 33 miles on 60% of the battery gives an overall range of 55-60 miles. That's about the lowest I'll ever see.

A bit more generic stuff about current availability to follow
 Electric bikes - MD
Brilliant so far thank you..I’m looking forward to the next chapter..I’m in the market so to speak, but it is a bit of a minefield and supply is currently an issue.
 Electric bikes - bathtub tom
I don't think anyone's mentioned that you can only buy pedal assistance bikes now. The concept of press-&-go has gone.

Legally!
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
The Kalkhoffs were bought because they were towards the top of the tree then. High capacity batteries and their own motor made them the 'best buy' (of a small field) for our use. They have been excellent, but Kalkhoff dropped the ball with subsequent upgrades, and now the field is awash with offerings (if not with stock at the moment).

If budget is limited, and/or use is going to be "light" then you'll probably be ok with a front or rear hub motor, and a smaller battery. People describe good usage in such circumstances, and I would describe such models as adequate. There are quite a few " fly by night" suppliers and brands however, so do your research if you want to be able to get spares (if your battery dies, you've lost your investment if you can't get a proprietary spare).

I would recommend a good ride before buying though, and try to get a test of a crank drive model for comparison.

These latter have several advantages; as I said above, the whole feel of the ride is much more like a normal bike, but easier. The assistance is applied through the gearing, which helps with this, and can provide greater assistance at the wheels. On hub drive models, particularly front hub, I felt like the bike was controlling me, not vice versa.

Most major names now offer such models, and unlike the original Kalkhoffs they now generally buy in the motor and electronics. Shimano, Yamaha, etc. and more ubiquitously, Bosch. Whilst I'm not convinced the latter is technically the best, it's ubiquity means you'll always find spares and repairs nearby.

I'd probably recommend Bosch nowadays for that reason, with at least a 400wh battery, and preferably 500wh. If you realise that a battery could be up to £800, with the motor and electronics you're talking around £1400 before you hang a bike round them, so you're in the £2000 and up range with these.

As with normal bikes, you can pay what you wish for the actual bike, and nowadays select a variance of bike types fitted with the desired motor (and from various bike brands). That's your choice (but do ride if you can before buying). Even the starter price components tend to be at least reasonable, and are usually at the heavier duty end of normal bike components. So, flexibility on gears (hub or derailleur) brakes, etc. much like a normal bike. (though the more sophisticated hub gears can synchronise with gear changes, cutting the power momentarily). I'd avoid a rear rack battery in favour of a down tube mounted one, they're heavy and centre of gravity is important. I'd also avoid integral frame batteries; they look nice, but are proprietary; a replacement standard Bosch battery is widely available.
 Electric bikes - Runfer D'Hills
S'pose I could just about cope with this...but if I did, it wouldn't be a case of "One life, live it" so much as "One wife, livid" ;-)

www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/electric-bikes/santa-cruz-heckler-cc-s-2020-carbon-full-sus-electric-mtb-yellow_482119?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=637089027&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs-CbhsmQ7AIVRubtCh0YPQobEAUYASABEgLGV_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
 Electric bikes - Bobby
Stupid question, do e-bikes recharge on the move when freewheeling, braking etc?
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
In general, no.
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
....all that cash and no pedals.....

;-)
 Electric bikes - Runfer D'Hills
I grew up in Edinburgh, which is quite a hilly place. As kids we had to ( chose to ) get creative about getting assistance up the hills on our bikes. Mostly involved grabbing hold of the back of a flatbed truck to get a tow up the Mound. Between the obvious potential pitfalls of that and the cloud of diesel smoke you would have to endure while doing so, it would probably give the hi viz generation apoplexy. Not many of us died. ;-)
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
So, for an ebike the "bike" bit is largely conventional; you choose style and componentry much as you would for one of those. (And spares are available much like a conventional bike)

The drive type/motor and battery are the key differentiators, and I've touched on those.

To be road legal (without reg, tax, insurance) an ebike needs to conform to the "pedelec" spec. Nominal 250w motor (maximum), assistance only when pedalling (various levels available), and no control by throttle (though a button which will apply assistance when pushing may be available). Assistance must cut at 15.5mph, though you can go faster under your own steam, all things allowing.

Most bikes will be compliant, but there are non road-legal bikes out there.

They're heavy. That makes transportation a matter to think about. I'd rather not use a roof or rear hatch carrier on a car. Inside or a towbar carrier only. Whilst heavy, with decent spec componentry you can cycle with no assistance on easy terrain. I've done in excess of 50 miles along the Mosel using only one short burst.

Battery recharge time depends on brand and capacity, will be quoted, and is a matter of hours for a full charge. Chargers aren't light things to carry, neither is a spare battery. The batteries have a finite life. The 9-year old ones have surpassed expectations (by quite a lot! - though those particular ones seem to be seen as about the best there's been). Regular riding for distance will ultimately need a replacement, which may be in the order of £600-800 for or (though a good few years for all but everyday long distance use).

TBH, the original decision was one of our better ones. They have met the requirements and proven hugely enjoyable. Just be aware that, with a pedelec cycling is not effortless, it can be less effort. It is quite nice to smooth out the effects of inclines and headwinds, and we've done thousands of miles since buying. A normal run out will be 30 miles and above, I think the maximum day out was 63 (with ample battery in reserve)
 Electric bikes - smokie
I'm in Ferragudo Portugal right now and there is a line of "Boris bikes" but they are electric. €1 to unlock them then 12c a minute. I may take one for a short spin to see what they are like.
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 30 Sep 20 at 19:37
 Electric bikes - Manatee
Did you get an e-bike MD?

I've finally given up on unassisted cycling. I'm supposed to keep my exercise heart rate below 130 which has effectively prevented me riding up hills.

My daughter has the same problem now, and she has bought a Gazelle e-bike -

www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/electric-bikes/gazelle-citygo-c7-hms-2020-aluminium-electric-step-thru-bike-black_477318

and has also ordered a Bicicapace Justlong to replace her box bike -

www.powertothepedal.bike/product-page/e-bicicapace-beechee-capachey-justlong-cargo-bike

I have my eye on something like this. Ideally I would like to try something out but there are so few bikes around to try that it isn't proving very practical and I don't think these are even stocked in this country =

www.bikester.co.uk/ortler-bozen-black-matt-1113155.html

I might run to a bit more for the Bosch Performance line engine.

I'll part fund it with the sale of my Brompton, which appears to be massively desirable at the moment, there being a severe stock shortage.

 Electric bikes - MD
>>Did you get an e-bike MD?

Good morning. The short answer is yes. I collected it yesterday. It was due in from Germany on the 1st of March, but in fact landed at the dealers last week. It's been a long time in the planning, probably two years. It is a Cube Kathmandu EXC. Crank drive with the latest Bosch CX Gen 4 motor being powered by a 625w battery. I'm like a dog with two tails to be honest. It's a lovely piece of engineering and it wants for very little. 3K all in.
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
...you should enjoy that (but the two dicks might make the saddle a tad uncomfortable ;-) )
 Electric bikes - Manatee
Looks good. I haven't ordered yet, there might be some bargains post-Christmas but on the other hand for anything not yet in the country there will probably be a price rise...
 Electric bikes - MD
I'm confident that discounts WILL NOT be available due to lack of supply. Our local dealer and his team suggest that Cube produce the very best bikes of all of the offerings. The little details make the difference and all of the components are of the highest quality.
 Electric bikes - Duncan
>> Our local dealer and his team suggest that Cube produce the very best bikes of all of
>> the offerings. The little details make the difference and all of the components are of
>> the highest quality.

Well, that's good to know.

Is your local dealer a Cube dealer by any remote chance?

Hmm?
 Electric bikes - MD
Hmmmmm?

No Vowels?

Yes of course they are.. As are they for Haibike and one or two others. I don't follow the crowd and I've spent 18 - 24 months researching this subject. Do your homework and you'll see that I am correct. Any further questions Old Bean?
 Electric bikes - Manatee
>> I'm confident that discounts WILL NOT be available due to lack of supply. Our local
>> dealer and his team suggest that Cube produce the very best bikes of all of
>> the offerings. The little details make the difference and all of the components are of
>> the highest quality.

I have been monitoring the prices for the last 10 days or so. As sometimes happens when you waver I got an offer - they sent me a 10% voucher so I have pulled the trigger.

Bosch Performance Gen 3 engine, 500Wh battery.

I don't mind the trapeze frame, might help me when I can no longer get my leg over:)

tinyurl.com/ortlerbozen

30 day return if it doesn't meet expectations.
 Electric bikes - Manatee
P.S. Ublock Origin Chrome extension gives a tracking cookie warning on clicking the above shortened link. If that worries you then right click and open in an incognito window.

I guess it's because they were tracking me that they sent me the 10% off!

Time to clear the cookies again.
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
...as long as you're a good fit for the frame, you should enjoy that!

(Just note the warning that the brakes are EU handed. I'm not sure how easy it will be to swap them over, being hydraulic. Of course, it doesn't affect the use (though technically, it might be against UK regs) but it can be a bit of a surprise if you're not concentrating. I didn't even realise they were handed differently until, a couple of years ago, in an emergency, I got a German bike shop to bleed my hydraulic brakes. "Your brakes are on the wrong side!". I'm told the justification is that you can (rear) brake and signal at the same time whilst turning across oncoming traffic - which is of course on a different side sur le Continent.

Incidentally, the same German confirmed that the brakes on his motorcycle we handed as per the UK!)
 Electric bikes - Manatee
Thanks T&E.

I'm wondering where they might have cut corners - hopefully nowhere, but it does look 'good value' . The parts I can identify that matter look mostly decent enough. It's billed as a touring bike I think rather than hybrid or MTB so tyres and wheels are really tarmac biased, but that's OK with me - I hate riding unmade surfaces anyway. I don't mind that it doesn't have an in-frame battery, which seems to add substantially to prices anyway - there are "powertube" models on the same site costing hundreds more that have lower grade ancillaries.

I actually wouldn't have minded hub gears but I couldn't find a combination of motor/battery/weight/price that I was as happy with overall. Still risky buying untried but in practice at the moment it's quite tricky with limited availability.

Now to market my Brompton. It's a 2012 P6R pretty much as new, in Turkish green. The P bars were discontinued a couple of years ago, which might be a curse or a blessing. I love them as my neck can't cope with a more horizontal riding position.
 Electric bikes - tyrednemotional
...as I think I said above, the in-frame batteries look quite neat, but they tend to be proprietary, so on the off-chance you want a spare battery or need a replacement, your choice is limited. A standard external Bosch battery, however, is widely obtainable.

I have both hub and derailleur gears on my two e-Bikes. Swings and roundabouts with the advantages of each being much the same as for ordinary bikes (though I haven't tried the hub gears where the motor is disabled momentarily when you change gear, that might be quite nice). I do find, with the derailleur, that I have to be somewhat more predictive with down-changes on uphill stretches, as the torque maintained by the drive can make things a bit more tricky.
 Electric bikes - Robin O'Reliant
>> ...as long as you're a good fit for the frame, you should enjoy that!
>>
>> (Just note the warning that the brakes are EU handed. I'm not sure how easy
>> it will be to swap them over, being hydraulic. Of course, it doesn't affect the
>> use (though technically, it might be against UK regs) but it can be a bit
>> of a surprise if you're not concentrating.
>>

All the bikes I have owned (Mostly built up myself) have been left hand front brake. It gives a smoother cable run, at least on cable brakes. I have no problem swapping between motorcycle and bicycle.

While UK regs do state that all cycles must have the front brake on the right (But only at at the point of sale) most bikes are supplied without pedals and are not classed as a complete machine so brakes position and things like mandatory reflectors are not covered.
 Electric bikes - Manatee
I don't know whether it was common, I suspect it might have been, but my dad, an amateur road racer and time trialler in his younger days, had his brake levers the 'wrong' way round.

He always wore his watch with the dial on the inside of his left wrist too, so he could see it when cycling. Once a cyclist always a cyclist.
 Electric bikes - Bobby
Not sure if still the case but up to very recently, Decathlon bikes used to all have wrong-way round brakes.
 Electric bikes - Manatee
Bikester eventually gave up on getting my bike to me, and didn't quite admit that it was lost but they did say it was "with the carrier". Along the way, they apologised and offered me another 5% off and free delivery, but in the end said they couldn't say when it would surface and refunded me, unbidden.

I emailed and asked if they could still supply me a bike were I to order another, and would they stand on the 15% off and free delivery? They said yes and yes and sent me a voucher code so I'm having another go with this one

www.bikester.co.uk/cube-touring-hybrid-one-625-greynblack-1289785.html

which is now in the hands of Koch International, who with the help of Brexit Koched up with the first one.

This has a lower torque engine than the previous choice but a bigger battery, which is also and in-tube one (they are all 250W) . It's a fairly well known brand so if I don't get on with it, it should be easier to sell and possibly for near what I paid, in the current climate of stock shortage. This one has since gone out of stock just about everywhere.

Now the weather has perked up, I wish it was here!

The Ortler that I first ordered is still available but went up £130 which brought the Cube into play.

 Electric bikes - zippy
I would like an electric bike but want one where I don't have to bend forwards too much to reach the handle bars (bad back). I suppose I could raise the handle bars, but most designs seem to favour the crouch forward position as opposed the upright seating position.

Any recommendations?
 Electric bikes - smokie
tinyurl.com/yc6f5fq5
 Electric bikes - zippy
Does she come with it?

(I don't think SWMBO would approve.)
 Electric bikes - Manatee
>> I don't have to bend forwards too much to reach the handle bars

"Touring" bikes often have higher bars and a more sitty-up rising position.

Bad neck in my case. I'll wait until I get the bike and see how it is. If necessary I will buy an adjustable stem so I can move the bars upwards and backwards.

www.cube.eu/en/equipment/components/stems-spacer/product/rfr-raised-adjustable-stem-pro

The bike I originally ordered would have come with one.

www.bikester.co.uk/1113173.html

Sometimes the specs online will have the geometry / dimensions so you can compare e.g. reach and stack with a bike you know fits you. See diagram on this page is you don't know what I mean.

www.cube.eu/en/2021/e-bikes/city-tour/on-road/touring-hybrid/cube-touring-hybrid-one-625-greynblack/
 Electric bikes - Bromptonaut
>> >> I don't have to bend forwards too much to reach the handle bars
>>
>> "Touring" bikes often have higher bars and a more sitty-up rising position.

That's a modern thing. My eighties Dawes Galaxy based tourer has a 72 degree frame and dropped bars. Even riding on the brake hoods, as I habitually do, I'm fairly well nose down/leaning forwards.

Actually quite good for my back as the vertebrae are spread out a bit.

On another tack Mrs B found carrying a hostellers touring rucksack eased strain on her cervical vertebrae.
 Electric bikes - Haywain
It is worth considering carefully the design of frame when you purchase an electric bike. About 4 years ago, a (male) friend bought such a bike with a step-through frame. At the time, I thought this layout was a bit 'girly' - real men had cross-bars. And, somehow, all the tubes meeting down at the hub didn't seem strong enough from a geometrical/engineering point of view.

Nearly 3 years ago, my wife and I bought a brace of 500MH Cubes - very well made bikes, and we thoroughly enjoy them. Mine has a regular, if sloping, crossbar and my wife has a low-bar. However, during the ensuing 3 years, both my wife and I have become more creaky and my back gets stiffer. I am now asking myself if, in the first place, we should have got step-through framed bikes.

By the way, if you are getting two bikes, it's not a bad idea to get the same make - our Cubes both have Bosch motors and the batteries and chargers are interchangeable.
 Electric bikes - Manatee

>> By the way, if you are getting two bikes, it's not a bad idea to
>> get the same make - our Cubes both have Bosch motors and the batteries and
>> chargers are interchangeable.

Good point, but the Cube is a substitute for the Ortler that Bikester failed to deliver (and which will probably turn up this week). One was an on-frame battery, one in-frame so they wouldn't in fact have been interchangeable even though both Bosch.

The Ortler was in fact a trapeze framed one, the Cube isn't. I would have been happy with the trapeze (girl's) bike.

Glad to hear you are happy with the Cubes.
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