..perfectly safe as long as your sensible and pay attention to what you're doing.
Though I've said that pretty often, two fractured ribs, one grazed and bruised leg, two banged up hands and a helmet which needs replacing would tend to suggest that I need to listen to myself more often.
Also, in case it ever matters, at 35kph it's kind of difficult to stop the difference between a slope and a flight of stone steps.
Pain. Lots of pain. No sympathy and a laughing doctor. FML
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 22 Jun 21 at 13:31
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Ouch…. Here’s to a speedy recovery!
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Cheers.
Most of it is just annoying and inconvenient. But f. me the ribs hurt every time I move or breath. And coughing is torturous. Having to roll out of bed is also somewhat ignominious.
The fact that it was entirely my own stupid and easily avoidable fault makes it worse.
A very strong warning about the value of helmets though. I hit my head so hard that I hurt my jaw. I suspect that I might not have walked away from the accident if I had not been wearing one.
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Try gin, either rub it on or drink it, or both. ;-)
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>> Try gin, either rub it on or drink it, or both. ;-)
It was probably the gin wot caused it.
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Best wishes too. It could of course, as with anything, been worse. Coincidentally I have joined a sort of penpal site, and made contact with a chap who, he tells me, had a bit of an accident. I'm sure he won't mind - here is what he said...
Next day, while riding my motorcycle, a car hit me. My face smashed through the window. Broken glass, a front tooth, and blood filled my lungs. My left eyeball popped out, my nose, jaws, and wrists were broken. My neck was also broke, and I received a brain stem injury. Falling to the highway smashed my left hip. THEN, as I lay there, the rear tire of this 7000 pound car ran over my body & parked on my left arm!
Unable to breath, move, or see, I was so near death. Two men ran to my rescue, did all they could. Ambulance FINALLY arrived [same day] and drove me 3 miles to a hospital. Comatose & paralyzed, the doctors said, No Hope? So they refused to work on me for 6 weeks! Even then, many things were done wrong. I woke up from the coma 25 days later. Was paralyzed 3 months. My hip was replaced, the new one was put in crooked. The doctor told my parents, 'What difference does it make, the boy will never walk again?' Five months after the accident, I walked out of the hospital.
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At your age Mark, you really ought to know better.
Daft sod ;-)
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Tue 22 Jun 21 at 13:54
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>> Daft sod ;-)
You are not wrong.
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>> I hit my head
Something soft then? But has it knocked any sense into you?
;)
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Was the helmet damaged by something inside it, or outside?
;>)
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The only thing stopping me laugh at your hysterically amusing jokes is the pain from my ribs when I move.
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>> The only thing stopping me laugh at your hysterically amusing jokes is the pain from
>> my ribs when I move.
>>
I thought they were a bit cruel, giving you a ribbing when you are clearly in pain.
Wife is sympathetic, I assume?
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>>Wife is sympathetic, I assume?
About as much as you'd expect.
>>giving you a ribbing when you are clearly in pain.
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
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>>
>>
>> Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
>>
Well if you feel like that I'll scoot off.
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Yes, that was wheelie bad.
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>> it's kind of difficult to stop the difference...
And concussion too!?
Wishing you a speedy recovery!
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I put a human shaped imprint half way up a tree on Sunday having very recently got off my mountain bike mid jump. Apparently, it was quite amusing to behold. Less entertaining to demonstrate...
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>> I put a human shaped imprint half way up a tree on Sunday having very
>> recently got off my mountain bike mid jump. Apparently, it was quite amusing to behold.
>> Less entertaining to demonstrate...
Yes, that's what I need, laugh induced rib pain. Thank you so much.
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>> Yes, that's what I need, laugh induced rib pain. Thank you so much.
I didn't get any impact injuries, it was in fact quite an elegant landing. But I can confirm that slithering back down the trunk of a Scots Pine in shorts and a T shirt is pretty uncomfortable.
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>> >> it's kind of difficult to stop the difference...
>>
>> And concussion too!?
Well it took me a while to work out I was looking at one of my own typos!
I don't know about proper concussion though. Aside from the pain and shock, I was kind of a bit out of it for an hour. But no damage to the head and, other than the pain, I feel fine today.
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A colleague and I invented the sport of scooter jousting, which requires two scooters, a garden umbrella each, and beer. I also suspect we might be the reason that e-scooters shut off automatically at 8pm in LA.
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>> A colleague and I invented the sport of scooter jousting, which requires two scooters, a
>> garden umbrella each, and beer. I also suspect we might be the reason that e-scooters
>> shut off automatically at 8pm in LA.
OUtstanding irresponsibility. I admire you.
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Good to hear you're (sort of) OK. It seems the helmet saved you from much further injury, although you'll never convince some here of their benefit.
Was alcohol involved?
Take care and wishing you a speedy recovery.
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Round here lots of the young teenagers are racing about on these things.
Can't help buyt think that an old man wearing a helmet would be slightly untrendy......
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>>an old man wearing a helmet would be slightly untrendy.
I don't think I've ever been trendy, and these days I am as far up the untrendy end of the scale as it is possible to get.
Though I care little what others think, and I've always worn a helmet, just that now I am thankful for it and far more committed to the idea.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 23 Jun 21 at 00:22
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>>Was alcohol involved?
A very valid question and normally a very good guess. But sadly this time not. Was stone cold sober, hadn't even been drinking the night before.
It was entirely my own carelessness.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 23 Jun 21 at 00:23
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>> It was entirely my own carelessness.
Perhaps you should only ride one after the pub, clearly dangerous things to ride when sober ;)
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 23 Jun 21 at 12:54
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>>Perhaps you should only ride one after the pub, clearly dangerous things to ride when sober ;)
According to most I shouldn't ride one at all.
All my life I have indulged in activities and pastimes which hurt if they go wrong. I have no intention of ever stopping. At least not willingly. If Runfer can fling himself off hills and crash into trees, then I can snowboard, ride a scooter, paragliding and do all the other things I get up to. And he's older than me, so I'll be damned if I'm slowing down before he does.
Getting hurt seems to hurt a lot more, and to hurt for longer, but that doesn't seem a good reason for stopping.
You're a long time dead. And my life is fun. It really is. OK, I winge quite a lot and I seem to keep getting myself into various situations, and the girls drive me nuts, and Chilean bureaucracy takes years off me, but my life is fundamentally fun.
And isn't that why we spent our younger years working?
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>> www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/e-scooter-rider-55-in-critical-condition-with-head-injury-after-crashing-without-helmet/ar-AALhi18?ocid=winp1taskbar
They are fundamentally unstable and have small (usually 8" or 10" wheels incl. tyre) with narrow handlebars (+/- 18") and will wobble over lumps, bumps and holes or when passed by a car and will dump you on your face if you take your eye off the ball for a moment.
Mine will do 35kph/21mph, in the UK they are limited to 30kph/19mph (I think) and that's quite fast enough.
There are far more powerful ones, up to 90kph/56mph) which are not legal anywhere that I know of and are complete death traps. To be fair they are far more terrain capable, but totally defenseless if ridden by an a*** or ridden around big metal road users.
Though I think society and the media should pay far less attention to what someone does to their own life. If someone wishes to be an utter t***, then they should be free to do so, without a media witch hunt desperately seeking someone to apologise.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 23 Jun 21 at 00:32
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>> >> www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/e-scooter-rider-55-in-critical-condition-with-head-injury-after-crashing-without-helmet/ar-AALhi18?ocid=winp1taskbar
>>
>> They are fundamentally unstable and have small (usually 8" or 10" wheels incl. tyre) with
>> narrow handlebars (+/- 18") and will wobble over lumps, bumps and holes or when passed
>> by a car and will dump you on your face if you take your eye
>> off the ball for a moment.
I can only refer you to the man who invented the segway was killed in a segway accident.
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>> I can only refer you to the man who invented the segway was killed in
>> a segway accident.
>>
Dean Kamen is not dead. Not even a little bit.
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No one has asked the most important question -
Was the scooter damaged?
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Yes, but not much. Just scratches/gouges really. Nothing broke, all still works, nothing needs replacing for anything other than cosmetic reasons. It is mostly metal.
Also, replaced the helmet with another one exactly the same. I'm not sure if I needed to do that, but I felt better for doing it.
Further, just ordered some half-finger gloves with reinforced palms and wrist braces. My hands are a b***** mess, I don't want that happening again.
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>> Also, replaced the helmet with another one exactly the same. I'm not sure if I
>> needed to do that, but I felt better for doing it.
The consensus is that helmets subject to any sort of impact should be replaced, even if there's no visible damage.
>> Further, just ordered some half-finger gloves with reinforced palms and wrist braces. My hands are
>> a b***** mess, I don't want that happening again.
A lot of us touring in the eighties used to wear those, leather palms and coloured string backs. Saved me one or two nasty grazes in otherwise minor offs.
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>>A lot of us touring in the eighties used to wear those, leather palms and coloured string backs. Saved me one or two nasty grazes in otherwise minor offs.
These seem a bit more industrial than that, I think. Knuckle protectors and wrist braces incorporated.
>>The consensus is that helmets subject to any sort of impact should be replaced, even if there's no visible damage.
Good, I made the right decision then. Do you wear a helmet? (just out of interest).
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>> Good, I made the right decision then. Do you wear a helmet? (just out of
>> interest).
Not normally no but I'm not a gut refusenik.
A real part of the joy of riding for me is the wind in my hair and being unencumbered. I find a helmet uncomfortable - hot when stopped - and it interferes at least subliminally with my vision and hearing. The straps are a pain with glasses. When I was commuting I'd have left it on the train three or four times a year.
I recognise there's a risk of which the consequence could be death or life changing injury. I mitigate that by reducing probability; riding per Cyclecraft, maintaining observation and doing the equivalent of defensive driving. Learning the red spots for risk on my regular routes, understanding traffic light sequences and hot spots for pedestrian incursions.
If risk is particularly high, for example the S London urban sections of the London to Brighton, riding in a tight group with people inexperienced in such conditions (touching wheels will result in a violent off) I wore one. Stowed it after the stop at Merstham.
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>> A real part of the joy of riding for me is the wind in my hair
Not really something that is going to happen to me, either way. It used to though.
>>hot when stopped
I don't really see that, and I live in a hotter country.
>> it interferes at least subliminally with my vision and hearing. The straps are a pain
>> with glasses.
Maybe my helmet is different. Because my ears are uncovered, the thing has many air holes and I've never had anything with the straps and glasses.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M569K6M
>> When I was commuting I'd have left it on the train three or four times a year.
Oh that I would definitely do. I don't think I've owned an umbrella for longer than one day in my life. I'd be no better with a helmet.
>> I recognise there's a risk of which the consequence could be death or life changing
>> injury. I mitigate that by reducing probability; riding per Cyclecraft, maintaining observation
>> and doing the equivalent of defensive driving. Learning the red spots for risk on my regular
>> routes, understanding traffic light sequences and hot spots for pedestrian incursions.
I think the flaw with that is when you don't. The accident I had the other day is an area I have walked through, though I have never scootered/cycled through, and if I had been travelling with my normal care and attention would never have happened. And I've done almost 3,000km on this scooter without previous incident of note.
It was entirely my fault and I made an assumption about something I couldn't see.
I have no clue what the statistics are overall, but I am 100% sure that on this occasion I was saved from serious injury or worse.
Also, as I know very well from years of riding motorbikes, your own care does nothing to prevent someone else mowing you down.
Still, each to their own, and I understand your points. I think, though, that for myself I am a firm believer in helmet wearing.
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>> Still, each to their own, and I understand your points. I think, though, that for
>> myself I am a firm believer in helmet wearing.
And that's fine. Just like anything from investing to solo hill walking we've all got our own views on risk.
A couple of specifics. My issue with helmet heat is that I'm OK moving but stop at lights and I've got an itchy scalp I cannot deal with.
With every helmet I've tried the rim and/or bits of strap are in my peripheral vision. Air round the helmet itself and straps near my ears have an effect.
The straps need to be under the arms of my glasses. Perhaps, given time and discipline I could sort out a routine where things are donned in the most efficient order but effort etc. I do enough messing with glasses to compromise reading v longer distance vision, another complication is too many.
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Not trying to convince you, just talking, but I don't have those helmet issues.
There's a small gap, like 5mm or so, between the top of my ears and the bottom of the helmet that my glasses slip though easily, and at that point the straps are 2 or 3mm from my so the glasses are not obstructed.
At the side the front straps come down the side of my face, over the sideburns I guess, and are close to my face. I couldn't see them if I tried. I can (just about) see the rim at the top.
Perhaps it'd be worth trying different helmets, if you care enough.
As for the heat thing, I guess after years in many hot countries you get used to heat and don't notice it so much. Also I expect that having very little hair helps.
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>> Perhaps it'd be worth trying different helmets, if you care enough.
I don't like wearing one mainly because, in my opinion, they significantly reduce one of the pleasures of cycling and are less comfortable than going without.
Maybe there's an analogy with condoms..... :-)
The stuff about heat, straps etc is all 'IME' but it's rationalising for a personal preference. I own a helmet, issued free by the AA!!, which I can use if the risk is more than normal.
I've done my risk assessment and I'm OK with it. So is Mrs B and both my kids.
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I think if i was cycling around in a rural setting then perhaps I wouldn't be so concerned about a helmet. I got into the habit of it when the girls were small so that they would wear them.
But I think being in a large city changes things, and then being on a much fast and thus more vulnerable scooter puts me right in the "always wear a helmet" camp.
Quite a lot of people here where a full face helmet when scootering. Not as bulbous as a motorcycle full face, they kind of look like a skeleton version, if that makes sense.
That would be too much for me, but obviously not for others. Actually helmets on scooters / bicycles and motorbikes is one of the few traffic rules that are not ignored here.
Ticketing (and it's about £80 a go) cycles and scooters is easier here also, because you have to carry your ID and, with cause, a carabinero can insist on seeing it.
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You want to try taking off your mask when exiting a shop when you also haver hearing aids and specs hanging off the same ear!! They don't half tangle easily!!
I remember when I was a long haired scooterist (Lambretta in the 70s) being stopped by a police motorcyclist and asked why my helmet was hanging fromn the backrest rather than on my head. The reason was because I'd washed my hair before going out and a helmet would have spoilt it. He "persuaded" me to put it on, even though it wasn't quite law by then.
Get well soon Mark!
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>>I remember when I was a long haired scooterist
Were you in the same geographic area back then? Despite being a motorcycle hooligan myself many of my very good friends were part of a local scooter 'club' and that would have been pretty close to you.
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>>You want to try taking off your mask when exiting a shop when you also haver hearing aids and specs hanging off the same ear!! They don't half tangle easily!!
I tried to wear glasses / mask / helmet / headphones just once. Got so annoyed I never tried again.
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>> I tried to wear glasses / mask / helmet / headphones just once. Got so
>> annoyed I never tried again.
I've whipped my glasses off more than once.
Mrs B has a penchant for dangly earrings, she's lost one or two of those while taking her mask off.
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>> Mrs B has a penchant for dangly earrings, she's lost one or two of those
>> while taking her mask off.
Yeah, Idris lost her sparkle some years back. Stuff is going south but hasnt dropped off yet
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Does 'Idris' ever see this site over your shoulder?
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Don't worry, if he ever says anything material I'll grass him up in a second.
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"I am a firm believer in helmet wearing"
We just call them Y-fronts.
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>>Further, just ordered some half-finger gloves with reinforced palms and wrist braces. My hands are a b***** mess, I don't want that happening again.
When I was taught to ride a motorbike, we had it drummed into us NEVER put your hands down when you come off. Also, get onto your back with the soles of your feet down, because the area beneath your shoulder blades is the largest patch on your body and is best for sliding on. Mind you, I always wore boots, gloves and a helmet. My knees suffered as that was the first bit to hit the ground when I invariably found a wet manhole cover on a bend.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Wed 23 Jun 21 at 22:44
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>> >>Further, just ordered some half-finger gloves with reinforced palms and wrist braces. My hands are
>> a b***** mess, I don't want that happening again.
>>
>> When I was taught to ride a motorbike, we had it drummed into us NEVER
>> put your hands down when you come off. Also, get onto your back with the
>> soles of your feet down, because the area beneath your shoulder blades is the largest
>> patch on your body and is best for sliding on. Mind you, I always wore
>> boots, gloves and a helmet. My knees suffered as that was the first bit to
>> hit the ground when I invariably found a wet manhole cover on a bend.
Ditto. But face planting isn't really a motorbike risk. Where it is very much a scooter risk.
>>drummed into us NEVER put your hands down when you come off
I would *never* make that mistake snowboarding, I couldn't tell you why I did on a scooter.
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I learned quickly never try to get up until you are sure you have stopped sliding even then - wait a second or two.
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I learned to stay on the floor while you run a "systems check". That immediate and urgent process of trying to work out what works, what does not, what is merely hurt and what is actually injured.
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When I rode a push bike early in life we had protective gloves for our hands
They were and are still called track mitts but were also used when riding/racing on the road.
We did not have them with string backs but they are an option.
www.evanscycles.com/buying-guides/gloves-mitts
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I never wore a cycle helmet in all the years I rode. My racing days were when leather strap helmets were mandatory, they were useless if you did come off but not uncomfortable to wear.
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I am aware.
It will change, but not soon.
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Local plod have announced a crackdown this week. Facebook and other sites are swamped with howls of protest, comparing them with e-bikes and mobility scooters. It seems folk just can't accept they're illegal, except in approved trial areas.
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>> Local plod have announced a crackdown this week. Facebook and other sites are swamped with
>> howls of protest, comparing them with e-bikes and mobility scooters. It seems folk just can't
>> accept they're illegal, except in approved trial areas.
>>
I'd have more sympathy if they were all well behaved and used their scooters sensibly and safely. Which it seems the vast majority do not.
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>> I'd have more sympathy if they were all well behaved and used their scooters sensibly
>> and safely. Which it seems the vast majority do not.
Third day back in the office today and I've already had two (at least one a legitimate hire machine) zip by uncomfortably close on the pavement.
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I have on one of the BBC reports that the life of a hired escooter is 2-5 months. That seems really low to me.? Are they damaged that frequently, I guess so.
Must be pricey to replace them that often, if true.
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Round our way e-scooters are charged at £1 to unlock and 10p a minute when on hire.
Assuming they are in use for 6 hours a day (360 minutes) = £36
Assuming each hire lasts for 10 minutes = 36 hires = £36
Total £72 per day.
Life of 2.5 months = 75 days = £5400 over the life of a scooter.
A very simplistic estimate which could be significantly adrift. But potentially the income look like it would comfortably cover initial purchase and subsequent systems and charging.
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I wonder if the usage is that high, I can't say I've seen any figures but I thought it would be lower than that.
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A scooter battery lasts somewhere between an hour and an hour and a half.
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>> A scooter battery lasts somewhere between an hour and an hour and a half.
And given that the app shows a scooter's remaining battery something with much less than half won't often get rented. And less than a quarter it will never be rented.
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Is that 2.5 months or 2 to 5 months?
I'd say that the ones around here probably last 6 months or so. Perhaps longer, they're pretty robust.
It's the batteries that suffer.
My £350 scooter has done 2,500km in about 15 months with only brake pads replaced and the occasional puncture. It shows no sign of dying.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 7 Jul 21 at 20:41
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2 to 5 months?
>>
>
This one. I think the company said they were looking to double their life, didn't say what the main issue was. If there was any one particular issue.
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>>
>>
>> My £350 scooter has done 2,500km in about 15 months with only brake pads replaced
>> and the occasional puncture. It shows no sign of dying.
>>
Unlike it's rider ;-)
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>> Unlike it's rider ;-)
A very fair point. It whines less too.
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I'm wondering if there's a business opportunity here. There's going to be a lot of privately owned e-scooters around that the owners daren't use. Perhaps offer to buy them cheaply. I suspect there will be legislation eventually to legalise them. Sell them at a premium.
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There was some woman winging on Radio 4 earlier. She sells them down the smoke. Got caught in cycle lane by the Met. Booked for no insurance - six points on her licence. She should have known about the consequences of using them
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>>six points
>> on her licence. She should have known about the consequences of using them
Wow, that's a decent deterrent. Or would be if anyone knew about it. I wonder how many with driving licences realise they are risking that.
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Local lorry driver uses one to get to work, as (he claims) it's more evironmetally friendly than using his diesel car. Reckons he's not going to stop despite being told it's a potential six (more?) points on his licence. Could lose him his job, which I understand is very well paid at the moment, due to shortage of lorry drivers.
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Strange that he's not bothered about potentially losing his job.
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>> I wonder how many with driving licences realise they are risking that.
For anybody who is not aware the difficulty is that an e-scooter is classed as a motor vehicle and therefore you need licence insurance, MOT, licence plate and to comply with C&U regs.
The issue is that the Government will not be able to "let" scooters become legal, they will have to take material steps to make them so.
And that will leave them open to tabloid abuse.
That's why the halfway house of rentals appeals.
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>> >> I wonder how many with driving licences realise they are risking that.
>>
>> For anybody who is not aware the difficulty is that an e-scooter is classed as
>> a motor vehicle and therefore you need licence insurance, MOT, licence plate and to comply
>> with C&U regs.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) the last point means that, like illegal high-powered e-bikes, they cannot not fit into any legal category at all. Even if one was willing to register on as a motor cycle, it can't be done.
I have seen "e-bikes" advertised with claims that they will do 50 or even 60mph. You'd have to be crazy.
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Electric personal transportation devices are an integral part of the drive to cut emissions, it is part of the future to come, so HM Gov, have to bite the bullet and legislate for them. Inevitably it means licensing to ensure adherence to restrictions.
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e-scooters are....... - PeterS
