Discussion continues
661912
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 15 Jun 23 at 11:03
|
Nadine D has stood down immediately as MP for her seat in Bedfordshire.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65860564
Fit of pique over not getting into the Lords??
|
>> Nadine D has stood down immediately as MP for her seat in Bedfordshire.
>> Fit of pique over not getting into the Lords??
Could well be.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65861936
|
|
Most likely, but it crossed my mind that Boris's WhatsApps might embarrass her. Unlikely though.
|
>> Fit of pique over not getting into the Lords??
Dear Lord, having seen BoJo the clowns honours list, I am utterly utterly disgusted,,
|
|
....not on it then, Z....?
|
>> ....not on it then, Z....?
Pity, I can see me at the urinals in the Lords wen JRM walks in
Turns to face him, "Oh Hello Jay-cob". Whoopps Sorry about your shoes.....
|
>> Dear Lord, having seen BoJo the clowns honours list, I am utterly utterly disgusted,,
Another example of the Johnson premiership giving an impetus to change that we were too complacent to see the need for?
|
|
Surprised that Ben Houchen becomes a peer. From what I've read he should be the subject of a police investigation not appearing on an honours list!!
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 9 Jun 23 at 18:32
|
|
...and now the big one ..
|
|
There is a post on here some time ago where I explicitly stated Bojo would screw up the country, leave parliament and then sodd off to the states do earn big bucks on the pubic speaking tour.
|
>> ..... on the pubic speaking tour.
>>
...he usually speaks from somewhere further back...
|
And another... "Nigel Adams, MP for Selby and Ainsty, has stood down but did not say why. "
www.bbc.co.uk/news/65866187
I was going to say I hadn't heard of him but there are so many I haven't heard of since Boris's clear-out....
|
>> Nadine D has stood down immediately as MP for her seat in Bedfordshire.
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65860564
>>
>> Fit of pique over not getting into the Lords??
Well apparently she hasn't yet resigned, and hasn't said when she will. Its a real case of throwing her toys out the pram, but leaving them attached on a long string.
|
Boris may be a wrong un, but look at the bright side.
The Yanks have Trump.
|
www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-65876914
90 days.
Good - hopefully enough to demolish him coming back and the start of de-normalising being an overt lying scumbag as a trait of leadership.
Obviously covertly it will continue as it always has!
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 15 Jun 23 at 09:44
|
All it needed was an admission of a breech of the rules, say it was a lapse, and apology to the house, and he would still have been where he was.
The blatant lies, bluster, contempt shown to others and a belief he should be allowed to get away with anything has ballooned into this. What a dick
|
As if the tories weren’t already going to get totally stiffed at the next election, these developments will make things so much worse for them!
The conservative party as was has been totally transformed, reflected in rags like the torygraph
|
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-65876914
I really don't get the "apology" culture.
Mind you, I don't get the "vigil" culture either.
Then, I don't get so much of what goes on nowadays. Before the war, Rodney.
|
I see BoJo has nabbed a job as a columnist for the DM. Not cleared by ACOBA but apparently they are less interested in journo jobs. Wasn't he on £800k+ at the DT before he became PM? I wonder what the DM has paid him.
EDIT: Oops I think it was Gideon on £800k as editor at the Standard, Boris was only on £275k at the DT.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 16 Jun 23 at 14:30
|
news.sky.com/story/defence-secretary-ben-wallace-to-stand-down-at-next-election-12921562
Ben Wallace to leave the cabinet at the next reshuffle and then not contest any seat at the next GE. I think he was the longest serving Conservative Defence Secretary.
|
|
His seat was disappearing too so I guess just felt he'd had enough. He had hopes of general sec of NATO or similar IIRC, which have been dashed.
|
|
Nadine Dorris - She really is a nasty unprincipled self centred piece of work. Throws her toys out the pram because she had her honours taken away, refuses to full-fill her role both in parliament and locally. She needs to be tarred & feathered and dumped in the local pond like the witch she is.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 9 Aug 23 at 11:57
|
|
You are just far too tolerant!
|
|
Zeddo has become a snowflake.,
|
|
Send her down to Manatees way, they know how to deal with witches down there.
|
>> Send her down to Manatees way, they know how to deal with witches down there.
Fancy you knowing that Zeddo!
|
>> >> Send her down to Manatees way, they know how to deal with witches down
>> there.
>>
>> Fancy you knowing that Zeddo!
The dog training group there is known as the coven
|
>> She needs to be tarred & feathered and dumped in the local pond like the witch she is.
The last doing-in by dunking of an alleged witch in England took place a short stroll from here in 1751. The ringleader was executed and hung in chains nearby.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Osborne_(alleged_witch)
|
>>The ringleader was executed and hung in chains nearby.
Good.
Witch-hunting - a excuse for murder.
|
>> Good.
>>
>> Witch-hunting - a excuse for murder.
Get a grip zipster, it was 280 odd years ago, not that it would have mattered to you, in the intervening years you'd have been in a penal colony in Tasmania, Port Arthur probably.
|
Dorries has finally gone.
www.itv.com/news/2023-08-26/nadine-dorries-resigns-as-tory-mp-with-scathing-attack-on-rishi-sunak
No date for a by election so soon, however not sure if the area has voted for anyone other than Con regularly? I think she has a pretty big majority, mind so did other areas.
This must be a pretty high number of by elections for any gov to have contested in such a short space of time.
|
In normal times her 20k+ majority would be unassailable.
But we're not in normal times.
|
|
I quick nosey on wiki says the last non Con MP to win there was in 1929. I think it's safe to call it a safe seat, however like you say it's not normal times. I think 2 of the other by elections overturned 20k majority though.
|
>> I quick nosey on wiki says the last non Con MP to win there was
>> in 1929. I think it's safe to call it a safe seat, however like you
>> say it's not normal times. I think 2 of the other by elections overturned 20k
>> majority though.
Losing a majority north of 10k at a GE is probably exceptional but picking a couple of 97 losers, both Michael Portillo and Tony Newton were 15k plus in 1992.
|
|
She was unpopular before this hiatus. Lib/dems have been doing a lot of door knocking recently. I'll await the result with interest!
|
An odious turd.
She would have been perfect as a Director of Nursing in most NHS trusts.
|
She does write a good letter though.
"Since you took office a year ago, the country is run by a zombie Parliament where nothing meaningful has happened. What exactly has been done or have you achieved? You hold the office of Prime Minister unelected, without a single vote, not even from your own MPs. You have no mandate from the people and the Government is adrift. You have squandered the goodwill of the nation, for what?"
She's not wrong is she?
|
|
So what was she expecting to be done? I was always taught to present the positives alongside the negatives. Unless I was just being a moaning minnie.
|
|
I'm not sure she's the best person to judge what's happening in Parliament, she's probably forgotten where it is.
|
>> And another by election. Must be a record number.
Done a Boris and jumped before he was pushed.
|
There have been 16 by elections between 2019 and 2023 - this may exclude a few more recent ones so assume (say) 20.
By comparison there have been many periods with a greater number
1945-1950 50
1951-1955 44
1955-1958 49
1959-1964 61
Rather than listing all of them - since the war, there have been 21 separate administrations due to general elections. In only 12 of those were there less than 20 by elections.
By comparison Rishi could be renamed "Lucki Rishi"!
researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7529/CBP-7529.pdf#page=45
|
>> There have been 16 by elections between 2019 and 2023 - this may exclude a
>> few more recent ones so assume (say) 20.
>>
>> By comparison there have been many periods with a greater number
>>
>> 1945-1950 50
>> 1951-1955 44
>> 1955-1958 49
>> 1959-1964 61
I wonder how far those numbers after the war and up to 64 compared to now reflect the change of age/background among MPs. How many were caused by the death of the sitting member?
Anecdotally (at least) a large proportion of Tories in those days were so called 'Knights of the Shires' while Labour's cohort were older men who had come up through the Trades Unions.
Those in the current parliament have been largely people who have been suspended and recalled or have resigned before they were pushed. Chesham and Amersham was the death of Cheryl Gillan and Southend West of course the assassination of the sitting member. A couple of others resigned after taking other office - Batley and Spen for example.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 6 Jan 24 at 11:34
|
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67905092
>>
>> Another one in the near future?
Another to watch but it looks more like a cockup than a conspiracy. I'll be surprised if there are not others in a similar position irrespective of party.
|
|
Liam Byrne campaign for Mayor of West Midlands.
|
>> Liam Byrne campaign for Mayor of West Midlands.
Can save me hours of Googling to understand that reference?
Unless of course it's yet another reference to that 'no money left' message.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 7 Jan 24 at 13:44
|
Maybe it wasn't reported by The G but here's Wiki:
"In May 2023, Byrne was found to have misused public expenses. Byrne denied wrongdoing, but the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) found there was “overwhelming evidence” that a member of Byrne's staff had worked on his failed mayoral election campaign during office hours, conservatively estimating that at least around 1,000 hours of public-funded time had been spent on the campaign. MPs may not use taxpayer-funded allowances for political campaigns; Byrne was not asked to repay the funds because the total hours worked by the staff member could not be established with some evidence in the report suggesting the hours could be in the thousands. Byrne stated subsequently he accepted the findings but refused to apologise."
|
>> Maybe it wasn't reported by The G but here's Wiki:
I'm sure it was but I cant remember the whyfores etc. Thanks for putting me on the right track.
IPSA, which was set up in the aftermath of the expenses scandal, has probably now become part of the landscape but initially it was VERY unpopular with MP's.
It's first CEO was the late Andrew Macdonald, probably the best and most professionally skilful Civil Servant I ever met.
|
|
Talking of civil servants, I see Simon Case is returning to work.
|
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67895246
Chris Skidmore quits over new oil and gas licences. Another by election soon. Poor old Rishi. It never rains but it pours (literally now).
|
|
Looks like he's going to lose his majority by-election by by-election.
|
I really don't know why you are so surprised. This is par for the course - a party in for 13 or 14 years, then another party in. It's the way you have done it for years, you vote a party in for a spell, they blot their copybook, you get tired of them and vote the other side in.
You are the only people that voted them in, don't look to blame someone else.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom
|
>> I really don't know why you are so surprised.
Who mentioned anything about being surprised?
|
|
I did. I can read between the lines.
|
|
Ah well you know what they say about assuming.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 5 Jan 24 at 22:16
|
>Chris Skidmore quits over new oil and gas licences..
Skidmore is paid £80k a year for 160hrs work advising a company that touts for business in "industrial decarbonisation and clean technology". Maybe he's going full time and couldn't resist the publicity?
|
Skidmore is paid £80k a year for 160hrs work advising a company that touts for
>> business in "industrial decarbonisation and clean technology". Maybe he's going full time and couldn't resist
>> the publicity?
>>
I'm not sure the issuing of new licences makes much odds either way to the UK, there's so little left in the N Sea. I watched a piece on Sky news, I think by 2030 without the licences we'd import 95% of gas and oil, with them it was 93%.
The new licences are for very small amounts of oil & gas.
|
>>The new licences are for very small amounts of oil & gas.
That's interesting. So perhaps the main problem here is the message it sends about UK's commitment to decarbonisation?
And the claim that it would ensure UK's energy security is utter tripe, even if the production wasn't just going to end up on the commodity market.
|
That's interesting. So perhaps the main problem here is the message it sends about UK's
>> commitment to decarbonisation?
>>
>> And the claim that it would ensure UK's energy security is utter tripe, even if
>> the production wasn't just going to end up on the commodity market.
From my understanding it makes no real difference if the licences are granted or not, there's not much left.
|
|
Bye election results could be interesting.
|
|
What election? She is still an MP
|
>> What election? She is still an MP
Tulip remains an MP but it's only a matter of time before death, misconduct or the prospect a better paid role leads an MP to chuck it in.
Big majorities can also leave us with 'accidental MPs' who may be more likely to have issues in their past etc.
|
>> What election? She is still an MP
I hear pressure's being applied, don't know why, I would have thought it's the last thing they need now with their current popularity.
|
What I find irritating is that part of her defence was that she didn’t break the Ministerial Code. Does she expect that accepting a £2m flat from persons unknown to her has to be explicitly spelled out in the code for it to be problem.
I wonder if Starmer, as a lawyer, has a moral blind spot when it comes to things that are not specifically forbidden. He seems to lack political nous.
|
|
Tony Blair and his wife also had an extensive property portfolio.
|
>> Now Healey has gone.
Didn't see that coming. Were there any clues for those nearer MoD then I am?
Wonder who will take on the brief to replace him or if any other ministers, defence or otherwise, follow him over the side.
|
|
Healey believes we are severely underspending on defence, a view I share. It’s no good maintaining benefits and things likethe triple lock on pensions if the government can’t fulfil its number one priority which is to defend the country. We need to get our priorities right.
|
>>and things like the triple lock on pensions
And gold-plated public sector pensions, while you're at it!
|
>> And gold-plated public sector pensions, while you're at it!
No quick savings there unless you pull the rug from under people which isn't politically acceptable .
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 11 Jun 26 at 15:34
|
>> >> And gold-plated public sector pensions, while you're at it!
>>
>> No quick savings there unless you pull the rug from under people which isn't politically
>> acceptable .
I agree, but a lot of us have had the rug pulled on pensions with schemes closed first to new members and then to everybody.
|
>> >>and things like the triple lock on pensions
>>
>> And gold-plated public sector pensions, while you're at it!
The total cost of the welfare system is ~£330bn including ~£170bn on pensions (excludes the cost of "gold plated" public sector pensions).
Gold plated is ~£55bn pa, mainly met (~£50bn) by employer government departments. This means the cost of (say) retired teacher pensions appears as an education expense etc.
There are ~6m public sector pensions in payment - an average of ~£9-10k pa. Some do very well, but many had fairly low paid jobs for NHS, local authorities etc, often part time, and possibly only for a few years.
The public sector largely closed final salary pension schemes over the last 15 years. Reducing future pensions may mean many pensioners would qualify for other benefits (pension credit, housing etc) offsetting any saving. Still worth putting into the benefits savings pot!!
|
|
Didn't Rachel from accounts say something to the effect of: we need to see what taxes we can increase to pay more social services?
|
>> Didn't Rachel from accounts say something to the effect of: we need to see what
>> taxes we can increase to pay more social services?
What are social services in this context?
Funding care for both the elderly and kids is a problem both parties have failed to play straight over for more than a decade.
|
Not hugely surprising, the PM has dithered for nearly a year on this. Endless defence companies and well contected ex-military have done the rounds. Even George Robertson has gone public, CDS had sent a private letter (content not leaked) to the PM. But to nought.
The PM is unable to make a decision.
He can't raise taxes because of the markets, he can't touch Milibands budget because he's weak. Welfare is untouchable as well, if he did he'd be gone in 24-48 hours, see Pat McFadden for details.
So it goes on, complete paralysis.
|
>> He can't raise taxes because of the markets, he can't touch Milibands budget because he's
>> weak. Welfare is untouchable as well, if he did he'd be gone in 24-48 hours,
>> see Pat McFadden for details.
I think the markets would be OK with tax. It's borrowing that's the problem.
If Starmer had been the sort of PM who saw his backbenchers as people, glad handed them and socialised with them he might have been able to 'roll the ground' for benefits changes.
Just dropping what looked very much like the Tories plans and with nothing in the manifesto to support cuts he was on a hiding to nothing.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 11 Jun 26 at 15:34
|
He should have handled it better but he was in a corner to start with. The Conservatives were not exactly fixing it when they were interrupted.
The real tragedy may yet be to come. A slump paves the way for the populists.
|
>> The real tragedy may yet be to come. A slump paves the way for the
>> populists.
>>
Exactly.
I think he should ignore Trump and tax online (often US) businesses more - through various wheezes Amazon etc. pay a fraction of the taxes that competing High Street businesses pay. Hence the decline in the High Street.
|
I think the markets would be OK with tax. It's borrowing that's the problem.
Yes i should have written borrowing, my mistake.
>> If Starmer had been the sort of PM who saw his backbenchers as people, glad
>> handed them and socialised with them he might have been able to 'roll the ground'
>> for benefits changes.
>>
>> Just dropping what looked very much like the Tories plans and with nothing in the
>> manifesto to support cuts he was on a hiding to nothing.
>
I think we've done this before, i don't agree with that version of events. But either way what is clear is the back benchers have him over a barrel on welfare and so it's untouchable.
|
|
Basically there is no wiggle room, which I presume KS realises. Trying to tax the 'rich' is likely to make some of them escape elsewhere. Our socialist govt's ideology requires that any subsidies go to those deserving 'working people'. If a boost went to the armaments industry I suppose jobs would result, but I guess at bottom the party in power has too few MPs who recognise the threat and know what to do about it.
|
Starmer is well aware the first responsibility of government is to protect and safeguard the lives of its citizens. The threat level has increased markedly over the last 4 years with serious conflict in the Middle East and Ukraine, and reduced confidence in NATO.
The Strategic Defence Review which Starmer commissioned was published a year ago. It now seems essential additional spending requirements will not be funded. His dilatory and inadequate leadership is a complete disgrace.
How increased spending is funded is up for debate.
Borrowing is completely off limits - it unfairly transfers the cost to future generations. Debt is already at record levels increasing borrowing rates.
Tax increases - a consistent feature of the last two years - NI, non-doms, VAT, inheritance tax etc) Fiscal drag has increased higher rate taxpayers by ~3m and basic rate by ~4m.
Public spending cuts - proven inability to do anything. Starmer, if he is still the man in a couple of months time, needs to accept not all actions will be popular. One suggestion - welfare currently ~£400bn to be reduced in real terms by 2.5% = £10bn pa - headroom for increased Defence expenditure is created.
|
It's a big number, and we all know of people taking advantage, but it's still very disturbing that we think first of taking money from some of the least well off people.
The Conservatives played a blinder when they managed to cut real terms welfare and public employees' wages to bail out the bankers.
|
>> It's a big number, and we all know of people taking advantage, but it's still
>> very disturbing that we think first of taking money from some of the least well
>> off people.
Over the last two years the government has taken money from the working, some of the wealthy, increased unemployment, failed to implement even modest benefit cuts, an extra 1.5m on universal credit. Many claimants struggle and may warrant more help - but time for a bit of balance.
>> The Conservatives played a blinder when they managed to cut real terms welfare and public
>> employees' wages to bail out the bankers.
As I recall it was Gordon Brown and his troops who lead us into the banking crisis. Liam Byrne was kind enough to alert the incoming coalition to the problem. Whether austerity was wholly the right/best strategy is debateable - IMHO largely the right thing to do.
|
You can't blame GB for the banking crisis. It came very much from the US, with the invention of collateralised debt obligations ("mortgage backed" securities) and the bursting of the US house price bubble. The latter could have been foreseen (and obviously was) but most of the holders of CDO's seem to have had no clue what they had.
A lot of people even in my world at the time were saying "this can't last" but I don't recall anybody predicting just what would cause the rood to fall in.
|
The banking crisis, as you say, originated in the US. GB later conceded that regulation of the UK banking sector was inadequate and subsequent changes (liquidity tests etc ) were implemented.
Both as Chancellor, then PM, he was on duty whilst it all unravelled. I don't think him negligent - just the man in charge at the time. There was no way that resolution would be pain free - he dealt with the consequences as best he judged.
That the country was left with a national debt doubled - £500bn higher than before the crisis - is a matter of fact. Austerity was the painful rational policy response to regularise the situation - the coalition government did not create the problem.
|
>> That the country was left with a national debt doubled - £500bn higher than before
>> the crisis - is a matter of fact. Austerity was the painful rational policy response
>> to regularise the situation - the coalition government did not create the problem.
It's argued that the crisis gave the incoming Tories the cover they needed to 'revert to type' and readopt Thatcherite policies.
Some of what my boss in 2010/11 called 'shock and awe' was counterproductive. Wholesale cancellation of school rebuilds/upgrades was a massive blow to construction for example.
|
>> It's a big number, and we all know of people taking advantage, but it's still
>> very disturbing that we think first of taking money from some of the least well
>> off people.
>>
>> The Conservatives played a blinder when they managed to cut real terms welfare and public
>> employees' wages to bail out the bankers.
>>
In this case (duty rumour) it wasn't to be taken from Welfare this time as the PM would be out the door very quickly if he tried that, he went to Miliband and the capital spend on net zero but couldn't get him to agree. The PM seems to have little real authority.
|
|
I think you will find it was Labour who bailed out the bankers, leaving the Tories to pick up the pieces.
|
|
I suspect miliband telling the PM to jog on increases Burnhams chance of becoming leader and his chance of moving into No11. I think the MoD is just an unfortunate casualty in the Labour leadership battle.
|
x.com/NAFOvoyager/status/2065384709174030508
A 30 sec video for a Russian in the ski federation, I think it was the Romans who said something like you might not be interested in war but war is interested in you.
No i don't think the Russian ski federation is going to lob skis at the UK, but i think it shows how we a country might have to make difficult decisions to deal with something even if we don't want to.
|
Dorries has Jumped. - Bromptonaut
