| Non-motoring > WASPI | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: bathtub tom | Replies: 22 |
|
New Thu 21 Mar 24 22:22
WASPI - bathtub tom
|
|
Is it me? Women wanted equality and now they've got it, they're calling it unfair. SWMBO falls into the category and she states she was well aware she wouldn't get her state pension at 60, but could easily find out when she would. She got it at a younger age than I! I'll go further and suggest that as women live longer than men, they should get it later than men. I'll now duck below the parapet and concentrate on building it higher. |
|
New Thu 21 Mar 24 22:41
WASPI - smokie
|
|
I expect there's a few of our SWMBOs here who fall into the category. Mine did (1955) I think we had adequate notice and so does she but I suspect there are many who received the comms but didn't understand what it meant for them, or binned it, or just thought it's too far in the future to worry about. I can think of a couple of examples of people I know who have had, through very unfortunate circumstances, a very difficult retirement. Not all due to the later pension but it hasn't helped. I'm going to suggest that as we are in a sufficiently fortunate position, should SWMBO get any windfall of compo we'd dish a significant lump of it it out to someone more needy, or an organisation who supports them. Not my decision of course... |
|
New Fri 22 Mar 24 07:36
WASPI - hjd
|
|
I am one of those affected. I did know the date of my state pension would change. If I get compensation I will donate it to a good cause. I did start my own private pension as soon as I started my first job so may be an outlier. Never earned a lot but was always contributing. Set my private pension start dates to my 60th birthday but am still working part time now I actually get my state pension. Plenty of others my age not able to work though. I don't think some of the ones on the BBC website/R4 have been the best advertisements for the cause though. |
|
New Fri 22 Mar 24 07:37
WASPI - Manatee
|
|
Pragmatically, it will have caused hardship for some. And you can have an argument about whether the warning of the initial changes, and of later tinkering, were adequate or timely. My wife wasn't affected but her younger sisters were and they all knew about it. You'd have to have been living in a cave not to know, one might think - but apparently only about 10% know who the Lib Dem leader is, for example, so maybe not. Again pragmatically, for what is compensation due? The upper limit is a restoration of payments from 60 to all affected women which is an astronomical amount, effectively reversing the change. I don't see how claimants can be put to proof of inadequate warning and 'damage' assessed. Maybe some sort of means tested payments, but why? In theory we have a benefits system. The answer can only be a fudge and if claims are to be assessed then the cost of that will not be negligible either, and no-one will be happy regardless. I am quite sympathetic. Many women perhaps had limited ability to change things much even when aware. Some will have been in caring roles. It's unfair to say they all demanded equality and they've got it. In many ways they still haven't. |
|
New Fri 22 Mar 24 08:02
WASPI - Falkirk Bairn
|
|
I was born in 1946 and received my State Pension aged 65. A friend of my wife, born 1951, had her 60th birthday 3 days after me and she got her full pension. I "suffered" from sex discrimination CAN I CLAIM? |
|
New Fri 22 Mar 24 08:08
WASPI - Zero
|
| I seem to recall they got the same notice, through the same ways I did when mine was pushed back a year to 66. They had the same options I did to plan. Some of the excuses for compensation seem ridiculous. One WASPI spokesperson said "I gave up work early to look after my ailing mother, had I know I wouldn't have done it". strange motivation at work there..... |
|
New Fri 22 Mar 24 09:10
WASPI - sooty123
|
| It all seems to hinge on the fact the DWP knew in 2006 that many women didn't know but they didn't do anything to inform them until 2012. |
|
New Fri 22 Mar 24 10:01
WASPI - Terry
|
|
Providing compensation for a perceived failure to fully communicate the changes to retirement and pension age is to reward ignorance, stupidity or greed. - retirement, unless preceded by death, is an inevitability - changes were first legislated in 1995 - 29 years ago - gender equality inevitably involves negative as well as positive changes The changes were accelerated due to increases in the retirement age for men. Reality for most below the age of ~50 is that normal life pressures (job, mortgage, children, etc) would get in the way of retirement planning - a distant prospect not of immediate concern. Slightly TIC, not a realistic proposition - it is men who should be compensated for the extra years of hard work to qualify for a pension, and enjoyed for fewer years. The experience of some of those whose pension age was increased has been difficult due to personal circumstances - ill-health, family breakdown, financial etc. Changes to the pension age are incidental, not responsible. It is probably politically expedient that some compensation will be forthcoming. It should be at a minimal level recognising that the claimants will have contributed significantly to their perceived losses. That many women were wholly aware of the changes reinforces the view that DWP failings were relatively inconsequential. |
|
New Fri 22 Mar 24 10:42
WASPI - Bromptonaut
|
|
>> It all seems to hinge on the fact the DWP knew in 2006 that many >> women didn't know but they didn't do anything to inform them until 2012. Baroness Ros Altman who was Pensions Minister in the coalition said much the same on Times Radio yesterday. In fact she went further and suggested that at some point DSS/DWP were keen to keep quiet as otherwise there'd be a campaign. I've not yet seen the Ombudsman's report but I think the issue is only partly, and less seriously, the fact of equalising. The bit that got less publicity was about how the plan was re-scoped to phase in the change more quickly and that it was then bumped straight into raising to 66 and then 67. I was aware of it from the get go but I've always been a heavy consumer of news and latterly was working in benefit advice. Both Mrs B, born in 1958, who collects hers for the first time next week and our daughter who is 30 needed me to explain what it was about. |
|
New Fri 22 Mar 24 12:02
WASPI - smokie
|
|
"Both Mrs B, born in 1958, who collects hers for the first time next week and our daughter who is 30 needed me to explain what it was about." Did they really? Or was it just easier to ask you, as it's one of your areas of knowledge and thus easier than researching themselves. Bit like SWMBO and tech stuff - she'll always ask me without even thinking nowadays. So often my initial answer is have you tried rebooting? But then so often I end up doing it for her as it is so much quicker for me. Anyway, that's drift EDIT: Before Bromps comments came along I was going to say that I think a lot of people just put pensions stuff in the top drawer to look at some other time, and I suspect that there's quite an element of this going on. I'm pretty sure I recall SWMBO being angry over it way back, but maybe that was something else LOL Last edited by: smokie on Fri 22 Mar 24 at 12:04
|
|
New Fri 22 Mar 24 15:37
WASPI - Terry
|
|
>> EDIT: Before Bromps comments came along I was going to say that I think a >> lot of people just put pensions stuff in the top drawer to look at some >> other time, and I suspect that there's quite an element of this going on. I'm >> pretty sure I recall SWMBO being angry over it way back, but maybe that was >> something else LOL There was a TV ad in the 1970/80s run by a major pensions company (whose name I cannot recall) which had a short cameo (10 secs) by 5 different folk. - 1st aged ~20 - I haven't got time to worry about that, I won't grow old - 2nd aged ~30 - young family, mortgage etc is the priority. No spare cash for pension - 3rd aged ~40 - too busy enjoying life, retirement is a long way off - 4th aged ~50 - I wish I had thought about this earlier - 5th aged ~60 - head in hands, penurious retirement beckons! A large part of the population fit this model - we know, early death excepted, we will all retire and that the quality of retirement will depend on the plans we personally make. Auto enrolment was introduced to make it easier to save than not save. It is debatable how much sympathy is deserved (not a lot) by those who simply bury their heads in the sand (men and women), then seek someone else to blame for their foolishness. It unfairly burdens those who have behaved responsibly to clear up their self-created mess. Last edited by: Terry on Fri 22 Mar 24 at 15:40
|
|
New Fri 22 Mar 24 17:24
WASPI - martin aston
|
|
The company I worked for twenty years ago used to run pre-retirement seminars for 50 year olds. It was an eye-opener for many. It explained the company and state schemes, how to address gaps and also how to prepare generally for a life beyond work. I guess they were the exception and may well not do these nowadays. My wife is seven years younger than me and none of her employers have provided any such support. I have helped her work out retirement options and she is pretty well invested. Some of her colleagues however have their heads firmly in the sand. |
|
New Fri 22 Mar 24 17:37
WASPI - Zero
|
|
>> I guess they were the exception and may well not do these nowadays. >> >> My wife is seven years younger than me and none of her employers have provided >> any such support. Employers these days have no interest in older employees, or their pension, most encourage and work towards weeding out those within 15 years of retirement. |
|
New Sat 23 Mar 24 14:09
WASPI - Kevin
|
|
>Employers these days have no interest in older employees,.. Have you seen the reports filtering through in the trade press recently? Mainframe shops are whinging that their operations are beginning to be affected by a shortage of people with the required skills and 'work experience' (I think that's a euphemism for work ethic). They forced out all their old-timers and offshored everything and now the chickens are coming home to roost. Banking app offline or card payment declined anyone? A 'source' at Big Blue has also reportedly said that they have no pipeline of mainframe techies. It's not glamorous enough for today's grads. |
|
New Sat 23 Mar 24 14:35
WASPI - Falkirk Bairn
|
|
The Senior Staff sacked by RBS/NatWest came back 12 years ago and helped IBM dig the bank out of the disaster created in India. If something similar were to happen in the near future might not be fully recoverable. The senior / super techies at IBM & RBS/NatWest will probably have forgotten much of their knowledge or be pushing up the daisies. Mistakes can be made by anyone, the failure to own up immediately is a characteristic of outsourcing overseas. A son had experience of this with a US bank & their outsourced IT. The outsourced techies would only notify glitches hours later to the UK/US and well after the event. Usually when the end-users were frustrated awaiting a resolution. |
|
New Sat 23 Mar 24 16:19
WASPI - Terry
|
|
Aged 25-30, I was a motivated and enthusiastic middle manager with a career ahead of me. My elders, typically then in their 50s, depressed me with their negativity: - any proposal was dismissed on the basis "we tried it before and it didn't work" - distain for new ideas and new tech - it won't work, the old way is just fine etc As the years passed I found my attitudes began to mimic those I found so frustrating 20-30 years earlier. The failure to fully appreciate the value of experience is not new - it may be understandable and well founded. But at age 50-55 you may be: - technically lacking current requirements - basing relationships on a social order that disappeared 30-40 years earlier - looking forward to a secure retirement rather than a driver of progress - you are no longer 25 - and cannot do that which 25 year olds can - energy, risk appetite etc Many years ago in a meeting with a managing director of a large organisation he expressed the view that if you hadn't made it by the time you were 40, you never would. He was right!!! The future of most organisations over the next decade rely upon the energetic, resourceful, motivated 25-40 year olds, not the has been in their 50s+. This may feel uncomfortable, but a sad reality. Last edited by: Terry on Sat 23 Mar 24 at 16:21
|
|
New Sat 23 Mar 24 16:30
WASPI - Bromptonaut
|
|
>> - any proposal was dismissed on the basis "we tried it before and it didn't >> work" On the other hand the seven words why will it be different this time are pretty powerful.... |
|
New Sun 24 Mar 24 14:40
WASPI - Bromptonaut
|
|
The other 'gotcha' for that age cohort is how the system treats what it calls 'Mixed Age Couples'. Until 2019 couples where one was over State Pension Age (SPA) and the other was not could claim Pension Credit as a couple. Their perceived need for a decent standard of living in terms of a personal allowance is £306.85/week. Since 2019 they're on working age benefit, Universal Credit, until the youngest is SPA. Living expenses £133.57/week. If one of them is incapable of work/work related activity then £223.29/week. If the elder gets the full State Pension of c£203/week then absent significant disability, that's seen as more than enough for both to live on. Obviously, in many cases, the younger can and will still work. There are though a lot of people where one, usually the husband, cannot be left alone or has significant care needs but not enough for Attendance Allowance to kick in. I'm genuinely surprised that change hasn't got the same traction as the WASPI saga. |
|
New Sun 24 Mar 24 15:23
WASPI - CGNorwich
|
| If I see the word cohort in a post I know it has to be by Bromptonaut or possibly Lord Byron :-) |
|
New Sun 24 Mar 24 17:53
WASPI - smokie
|
|
" possibly Lord Byron :-)" Keep up CGN, he's not been back here since about 1824! |
|
New Sun 24 Mar 24 19:41
WASPI - CGNorwich
|
|
Surely you did the “Destruction of Sennacherib” in your English Language O Level course. Can still quote it in its entirety. The Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold, And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold. What’ s happened to education :-) |
|
New Sun 24 Mar 24 18:52
WASPI - Fursty Ferret
|
|
As a geriatric millennial who is unlikely to get a state pension until I'm in my 70s (assuming it still exists in thirty years), I have to admit to not having enormous sympathy. What was the historic reason women could claim a pension at an earlier age? Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Sun 24 Mar 24 at 18:55
|
|
New Sun 24 Mar 24 21:30
WASPI - Bromptonaut
|
|
>> What was the historic reason women could claim a pension at an earlier age? AIUI issue was that, at least post WW2, women were usually younger than their husbands. If they got pensions sooner then both could leave the workforce earlier rather than later. |
Forum Version 3.0 - By Khoosys
Car4play Forum
